Responding to the murder of a Bradford WPC and Lord Stevens' call for capital punishment for police killers, DD said it was the wrong time to propose such things in the wake of such a tragedy. He said that he did not agree with Lord Stevens' call.
DC said that he opposed capital punishment but that a life sentence should mean 'life'.
Both men opposed "routine" arming of the police but called for more armed response teams. DD said that police may need more bullet-proof clothing.
A questioner accused DC of being "vague" on tax. Mr Cameron said that Britain needs lower taxes and better public infrastructure. Rather than clarifying the balance of tax cuts/public spending he means by "sharing the proceeds of growth" he attacked David Davis' specific tax cuts promises.
Mr Davis said that "there is no alternative" with today's intense global competition for Britain to cut taxes and regulation. With his growth rule he said that he would still be able to raise public spending but not as fast as the growth of the economy. The difference between spending growth and economic growth would pay for tax relief.
Mr Cameron said that Tories must not be so obsessed with tax and that tax must only be one part of a wider economic strategy. He challenged David Davis to state whether he would still cut taxes in a recession and with debt levels growing.
David Davis responded by saying that a recession was precisely the wrong time to raise taxes. He said that Mr Cameron's "sharing the proceeds of growth" formulation meant nothing. He said that we needed tax cuts in order to boost the economy or there would be no proceeds to share.
Asked about health Mr Davis reaffirmed his support for the patient's passport policy.
Mr Dimbleby put it to DC that his u-turn on the patient's passport policy was another example of his inconsistency. Mr Cameron said that Conservatives were wrong to give "the impression" that they wanted people to opt out of the NHS. He implied that he never agreed with the shadow cabinet's support for the PP policy.
Mr Davis countered that he never remembered a big argument in shadow cabinet. He took issue with Mr Cameron's use of the word "impression" and said that on the patient's passport - as on tax - the Conservative Party should decide what was right for Britain and then communicate that for the whole of the parliament. It should not be cowed into intellectual submission by today's opinion polls.
Why does David Cameron persist in using the "sharing the proceeds of growth" formulation? As is pointed out each time he used it, it really could mean anything from one to ninety nine per cent of growth goign on public spending.
As the formulation is repeatedly pulled aprt, you'd have thought he would adopt a new phrase.
Posted by: James Hellyer | 20 November 2005 at 13:40
Oh but he has nice hair and nice manners so what do the public care?
Sigh.
What distresses me most is that Cameron's argument seems to be that the Tories should reject any policies that might be in any way controversial.
And then in the next breath he attacks Labour for its "timid" reforms!
Posted by: John Hustings | 20 November 2005 at 13:46
The share growth is vague...But then his approach isn't merely as stupid and David Davis who is already facing criticism by the press for his tax plans.
What I want to here from cameron is some substantial business tax cuts.
Posted by: Jaz | 20 November 2005 at 14:03
Does receiving criticism make something stupid?
The only mistake Davis made was in getting mixed up over "guarantees" "promises" and "strategies" with Paxman.
Posted by: John Hustings | 20 November 2005 at 14:10
The proceeds of growth formula is to avoid being characterised as someone who wants to cut taxes at the expense of cuts in public services--that is the correct position but it has also boxed him into a corner. Cameron has defined it as not cutting taxes to get growth. That is a mistake. An incoming Conservative government will need to cut taxes--especially in a recession. Lower taxes spur higher growth and therefore increased revenues to pay for public services and their reform. Cameron's formulation means he does not have an answer to the question: "How will you get the growth to share the proceeds?" That is something the Conservatives will need to have to be a convincing opposition. What our party needs is the Davis direction (not his detailed policies at this stage) but with a communications formula that makes clear we are not talking about tax cuts at the expense of public services.
Davis has outlined the correct philosophical approach but has the wrong formula to express it. Cameron understands the need for one, but it is the wrong one. This sums up the problem in this election: clear thinking and sloppy communication versus sloppy thinking and clear communication. An effective leader of the opposition needs both, especially one starting out with his party several points behind Labour in the polls.
Posted by: loyal_tory | 20 November 2005 at 14:32
Britain cannot introduce capital punishment - it has signed so many European Conventions which prohibit it so Parliament is not able - as if it ever would - enact what the electorate want.
As for Growth...........what happens if we don't have any ? Why do they assume the economy will grow ? For 15 years 66% global economic growth came from the Us trade deficit; and British consumer demand grew on the back of consumer debt and refinanced mortgages...............just why will that continue.
It is more likely that the British economy will stagnate as it imports oil and gas instead of exporting them...........the years ahead are more likely to be stagflationary rather than booming. I suggest Cameron forgets about sharing growth and thinks about funding structural deficits on Trade and Budget like the US will face
Posted by: Rick | 20 November 2005 at 15:02
"Britain cannot introduce capital punishment - it has signed so many European Conventions which prohibit it so Parliament is not able - as if it ever would - enact what the electorate want."
Presumably Britain can withdraw if it wants to.
Posted by: Bishop Hill | 20 November 2005 at 15:58
The gall of David Cameron is astounding. When I listened to him harping on about the importance of the Conservatives regaining credibility with regards the economy, I almost choked on my lunch! Who was special adviser at the Treasury when the Conservatives lost all their credibility on the economy? Who was that special adviser that then fired off memos to the Prime Minister making the argument for continuing on the course responsible for the Conservatives losing their credibility on the economy? Oh yes, it was none other than David Cameron! Genius.
Posted by: Daniel Vince-Archer | 20 November 2005 at 16:25
Daniel. When you act as an advisor to someone you advise them but it doesn`t always follow that the person who you are giving the advice to follows it.
Posted by: Jack Stone | 20 November 2005 at 17:25
"Jack"! *Great* to see you again. Fascinating to hear your advice on the tribulations of those who give 'advice' to politicians. The onyl thing that could make it *even* more interesting would be if you told us your real name. Go on! It's good for us to know thw quality of Dave's cheerleaders. Stay in the dark no longer - come out and say who you are.
Posted by: Henry Fitzpatrick | 20 November 2005 at 17:42
Bishop Hill:
The death penalty for murder was abolished nearly 40 years ago by the Murder (Abolition of Death Penalty) Act 1965, and replaced with a mandatory life sentence. The passing of the Act followed a great deal of debate both inside and outside Parliament over the death penalty.
The death penalty was retained for the capital offences of treason and piracy with violence, however it was abolished in 1998 under the Crime and Disorder Act.
In 1999 the home secretary signed the sixth protocol of the European Convention of Human Rights which formally abolished the death penalty in the UK and ensured it could not be brought back.
Posted by: Rick | 20 November 2005 at 17:55
"Daniel. When you act as an advisor to someone you advise them but it doesn`t always follow that the person who you are giving the advice to follows it."
Jack. Thanks for sharing one of your pearls of wisdom with me. I feel greatly enriched by this extra knowledge you have bestowed upon me. Not. I am however pleased to see you acknowledge that Cameron must have been an ineffective special adviser if his advice was ignored.
Posted by: Daniel Vince-Archer | 20 November 2005 at 17:57
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