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« Highlights of David Cameron's CBI speech | Main | £200,000 bet on Cameron is largest ever »

Comments

michael

James, it would be a good start, but let's not be limited in our ambitions. This is a big and bold idea which is worthy of debate.

Rob

Please tell me I am not on my own here thinking this is a dangerous and stupid policy which will result in ridicule and embarressment of the party while damaging any chances of reaching out to new voters. Dress this policy up any way you want, its reducing our individual freedom and increasing the role of government, I am genuinely taken a back by this foolish move by Cameron. Anyone?

wasp

Sorry James I was not being particularly serious, but I do think that gap years can be particularly useful when they are combined with charity work etc.

Davis's comments where scaremongering, I was being flippant - something that is difficult to get across the internet and for which I apologise.

James Hellyer

I wouldn't say it's big and bold, I'd say it's crazy and out of touch with the modern world. I can't see young people who raised to believe in freedom (if not responsibility) will welcome the state dictating what they can do with their lives and where.

michael

Yer, that's the difficulty I have with it too James. Which is why I think it needs to be packaged and sold in a way which attracts people to want to do it. And also allows people to do it.

It can be done - so many of my friends left University to become teachers because the Government created such an attractive training package.

wasp

James that assumes that this programme will be compulsary. We don't know that, the idea is clearly embryonic.

I hope this is packaged as a voluntary scheme that offers people something eg overseas travel in return for some level of service/charity.

Captain Mainwaring

Wasp: "I hope this is packaged as a voluntary scheme that offers people something eg overseas travel in return for some level of service/charity."

So it's really a sort of optional service?

Rob

If its optional then no one will do it, If its compulsary its nothing more than state control, either way its going to be costly.

wasp

I hope it is optional I would not as a Conservative want to be telling people what they can and cannot do when they leave school.

Daniel Vince-Archer

"But in today's Independent Bruce Anderson thinks that is one of the virtues of David Cameron: "Mr Cameron can bring the futilities of the modernisation debate to a rapid end, because as soon as he is elected, the party will appear to have modernised. As he is modernity personified, he can devote himself to stressing those traditional Tory values and principles which still resonate with the electorate.""

So the party will appear to modernise, while actually doing nothing of the sort. Vote Cameron!

Rob

I didnt know that an Eton/Oxbridge educated political advisor turned politician was 'modernity personified'. Shows how out of touch I am.

wasp

I posted about 6 months ago to say that Cameron would be the most right wing leader and I think that is what the Brute is saying here.

Because Cameron does not come across as right wing, he needs less triangulation from his policies to reach the balance needed to win an election.

Daniel Vince-Archer

"I didnt know that an Eton/Oxbridge educated political advisor turned politician was 'modernity personified'. Shows how out of touch I am."

Careful Rob, that kind of language will prompt hysterical shrieking about inverted snobbery and jealousy from the Cameronite axis.

makes sense

"I didnt know that an Eton/Oxbridge educated political advisor turned politician was 'modernity personified'. Shows how out of touch I am."

You see this is why we need community service in the Bullingdon Club and White's, maybe with some of the cooking and cleaning chores at Eton also. Getting that mind-broadening social experience and mix would allow them to understand the environment that produces modern leaders and ideas.

Rob, "modernity" is about political outlook not where you've been educated.

I really never thought I'd see Trotskist class envy in a Conservative Forum of all places! By all means criticise the man for his ideas, but your making this sound like a TUC discussion board.

Daniel Vince-Archer

"I really never thought I'd see Trotskist class envy in a Conservative Forum of all places! By all means criticise the man for his ideas, but your making this sound like a TUC discussion board."

A mere four minutes after my warning, and the hysterical shrieks begin.

make sense

But if more people did some community work at Eton, maybe helping landlords and street cleaners clean up after the Bullingdon Club, and perhaps some dish and glass washing, coat checking etc at White's then these outdated TUC prejudices would become a thing of the past. After all, we're all in this together.

Mark Fulford

It's very easy to knock ideas; far harder to be constructive. I hope that this results in a compulsory “Overseas Service” that carries out paid humanitarian work abroad. The cost to the taxpayer would be easily justified and rewarded by the cohesive power of the service, uniting Britons and uniting Britain with other countries. I hope that Conservatives can get together and find a way to make this workable and then sell it to the nation.

Robbie

There is a very weary vein of sub-Marxist class-baiting in some of the threads ---- sniping at middle-class gap-year kids sitting on the beaches of Thailand or Cameron's educational background (he left Eton more than 20 years ago and, I assume, has seen a little of life in the intervening years; and Oxford is open and meritocratic in its admissions; so what).
Surely, conservatives don't believe that we are all conditioned creatures of a mythical substructure, so central to Marxist thinking? Surely, we believe that people are endowed with reason, empathy and imagination that means people can transcend their background?
Surely, Tories believe in freedom of choice in schooling? It's strange to support a parents' right to choose and then write-off their children as being chinless wonders/hooray henries/or hopelessly privileged
Surely, Conservatives want everyone to be prosperous enough so that they can afford to sit on Thai beaches (if they so choose)?
Some of the contributors are bizarre

It's very easy to knock ideas...

... especially ill thought out and stupid ideas.

jim

"Oxford is open and meritocratic in its admissions"

Not really. A bright kid from a private school has and always had a better chance of getting in.

shocked

"Surely, Tories believe in freedom of choice in schooling? It's strange to support a parents' right to choose and then write-off their children as being chinless wonders/hooray henries/or hopelessly privileged."

This post makes a very reactionary point. I for one almost fell of my chair at the mention of choice in education and being educated privately. Where is the commitment to making state education better? Many of us who have been very expensively educated and have taken great care to belong to the right clubs know that this hideously unfashionable right-wing talk about choice is just so terribly passé.

fair game

Robbie:

Perhaps if people in our party who have never in their lives had the need for a tax cut, who have never needed a voucher to get a decent education, and who have never been unable to afford the private insurance that provides healthcare without a waiting list, were not telling us that these ideas should not be spoken of by our party, these comments wouldn't arise.

BW

Well some good points against compulsion, about freedom of choice and so on.

But we have compulsory education until age 16 so why not say 3 months 'national service', compulsory, as the 'rounding off' of an education to equip children for the wider world of work or uni? I see no greater objection to that than compulsory education to age 16.

I would like to see a military element as an option within this. Perhaps this part being compulsory for 'bad lads' to ensure they develop some self discipline. It may save many of them from the world of crime.

Incidentally, any military element, I agree should be totally seperate from the professional armed forces and manned by ex regular NCO's and officers.

Overall, yes these ideas need thinking through more and properly costed but it is a step in the right direction and who knows as few months of the new style 'national service', whether doing charitable works, adventure training or associated with the military, could be the best education some children receive throughout their schooling.

James Maskell

It will be about 2-3 years before we hear some real definitive details on this one. I know we were all very critical when he mentioned this at the start of the contest. Im still very unsure about how it would work and how it would actually benefit those people.

Ill have further comments by the end of the week when Ive thought more about it. Ive been a busy little bee and have a lot of work at the moment.

The comments to this entry are closed.

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