Hustings Report (8): Frimley

The famous Wat Tyler (not pictured) - Blogger for David Davis - is the author of the latest Hustings Report from this morning's Frimley venue... 

Lakeside Leisure Complex describes itself as the Home Of World Darts, the hallowed spot where the legendary Jocky once slugged it out in beery combat against the mighty Cockney. No beer (or Pink Pussies) on hand today, but still plenty of well-flighted arrows.

There was an excellent turnout of about a thousand, and not all of them over 65 (or even 67). Plenty of support for both Davids, although quite a number chose to wear stickers for both sides, so we guess there were still many undecideds. The atmosphere throughout was relaxed and upbeat.

DC was first up to the ockie. He delivered his usual polished noteless performance, complete with jokes about people like Alexander the Great and Eric Bristow achieving huge things even younger than him. In truth, we'd heard most of the jokes before ("having" Paxman, seeing more of DD than his own wife - maybe they should get a civil partnership, etc), and it may be time for a new script. But his familiar slogan "Hope Optimism Change" did seem to go down well in the hall.

He ran through his litany: we must change; we must reflect the country as it is today; we must have policies on all areas people are concerned about, including traditionally non-Tory concerns like the environment; and we must be proud of our shared values. But his biggest applause came on his "button" statement that it would be "great if William Hague returned to the Front Bench". He ended by saying that in all elections you can either be the party of the past- and lose- or the party of the future- and win. He told us we can paint Gordon Brown's Labour as the party of the past. "Come with me: do it; win it".

One Hundred And Eighty!

DD then stepped forward. Again, a very familiar pitch. He told us he was delighted at the way the contest had shown the party to be alive with ideas, and that there's much more that unites us than divide us. And he again underlined his key message: a new Tory idealism to rescue the victims of state failure.

He touched on his differences with DC: a more combative style of leadership- "I will not be an accomplice in saving Tony Blair's half-baked reforms...I want to hasten his exit"; and taxes- "lower taxes generate growth". But again, his biggest applause came on the "button" issue of Europe, when he said that the British people had voted to join a Common Market, not a United States of Europe. He ended by telling us we have a choice- between image-led politics, cautious on policy, or battle-hardened experience.

One Hundred And Eighty!

The umpire then read out some of the written audience questions. What are the biggest challenges? Both agreed the economy, and public service reform as one and two. How should we sort out the NHS? Both agreed top-down Whitehall control had to go, but DD stressed the need to empower patients to choose, whereas DC stressed "devolution" to healthcare professionals. And he reiterated his oppostion to patient passports.

Should we contemplate a LibDem coalition in a hung Parliament? DC said he was fighting to win, and cracked the joke about trying anything once, except incest, Morris Dancing, and coalition with the LDs. Which left Davis to field the other joke about pushing LibDems off Beachy Head. And that was actually emblematic of the entire session- these two now know each other so well, they're finishing each others' jokes. Which really is like an old married couple.

Drugs? Nothing really to add to their well-known positions. How do we appeal to the younger age group? Again, nothing new. How do we make poverty history? Both agreed that we need to proselytize for the rule of law, property rights and free trade. Other questions were: "are you the heir to Blair?"- no; "what's the future for British farming?"- bring the CAP under our control; "how do we control left-wing bias in the media?"- difficult, but according to DC, the "time is right" for the new Conservative story (disappointingly, neither David suggested privatising the BBC, which Chez Tyler we reckon could remove much of the bias at a stroke).

The only two questions that really came alive for me were on PMQs and leaving the EEP. "How would you handle PMQs" obviously hit a particular interest of both men, having worked together on them for John Major. They didn't give much away, but hopefully, they'll be worth watching whoever wins.

On withdrawing from the EPP, DC seemed to have changed his position. Previously, this had been billed as pretty much a done deal, to take place almost as soon as DC became leader. Today however, he said while he was convinced it is right, the "timetable" would be a matter for the new Shadow Foreign Secretary. Sounded like another of those DC rethinks.

Overall, it was a gentle and gentlemanly display. Finishing each other's jokes, applauding each other, smiling, nodding and looking supportive in all the right places...indeed we were tempted to think this really isn't a contest at all any more. It's taken on the feel of a unity tour for members.

Which can only mean one thing- both men already know who's going to win, and the only question now is which job David Davis is going to offer David Cameron.

Comments

[a-tracy]

"it would be "great if William Hague returned to the Front Bench"

Why?

"He told us we can paint Gordon Brown's Labour as the party of the past."

How do you know you will be fighting Brown he seems to have gone all paternal since the birth of his son, perhaps his ambition for PM has dimmed and the fight will be with someone fresh like Millibrand.

[stale thinking from "fresh" candidate]

"How should we sort out the NHS? Both agreed top-down Whitehall control had to go, but DD stressed the need to empower patients to choose, whereas DC stressed "devolution" to healthcare professionals." Who needs more power for patients when you can devolve to healthcare professsionals. Yes, those bold hush, hush DC commitments to public service reform are really starting to show. Let's run the NHS more efficiently than Labour. That's never been tried (and failed) before.

[Daniel Vince-Archer]

Is the Davis supporter pictured the now-infamous William 'Cameron couldn't run a bath' Aitken?

[Derek]

Thanks, Wat, for a very fair assessment of the Frimley meeting. As a member of the audience I agree that it seemed a rather cosy affair, with each only too ready to compliment the other with very little new areas of difference emerging. Most of the questions were of such a general nature that they had huge room for manoeuvre. The EPP question was interesting [and I'm not just saying that because I asked it!] as it was intended to tie them down by asking them to give a timetable for implementing the withdrawal. DC said yes to withdrawal, but then side-stepped the timetable by saying he would "leave it to his Foreign Secretary". To me this suggests that his promise to leave the EPP is not to be implemented immediately, but, in truth, will happen in two years time, which is exactly the same as DD has agreed to.

[TrickyDicky]

"trying anything once, except incest, Morris Dancing, and coalition with the LDs"

Cocaine?

[hayek's grandad]

"Is the Davis supporter pictured the now-infamous William 'Cameron couldn't run a bath' Aitken?"

yes and the same aitken that appeared in the DD video. Is he the only 'under 35' on the DD team.

[anon]

"it would be "great if William Hague returned to the Front Bench Why?--because he is a better debater and more experienced than either of the leadership candidates.

"How do you know you will be fighting Brown he seems to have gone all paternal since the birth of his son, perhaps his ambition for PM has dimmed and the fight will be with someone fresh like Millibrand." Because Gordon Brown has lusted after the job for the last eight years and many, many more before that and because he would beat Milliband (sp.) in an election.

[Rob]

Looks like Cameron is now getting ready to back down on his pledge to withdraw from the EPP, what a bitter disappointment, does this mean that Cameron will be bossed around by a few MEPs for his entire leadership? At least Blair was able to get his clause IV, Cameron seems incapable of changing anything if this is anything to go on.

[Barbara Villiers]

No, Gramps, he isn't actually the only under 35 on the team. You're rather too old to be as pathetic as Goldie and Sam - you should know better, Gramps!!

[Cllr Iain Lindley]

Can we take it, then, Barbara, that you're on "the team"?

[James Hellyer]

"yes and the same aitken that appeared in the DD video. Is he the only 'under 35' on the DD team."

Another mature crack from a Cameron supporter!

[Yet another Anon]

>>>>>How do you know you will be fighting Brown he seems to have gone all paternal since the birth of his son, perhaps his ambition for PM has dimmed and the fight will be with someone fresh like Millibrand.<<<<<<
It almost certainly will be Gordon Brown in charge of Labour, and certainly won't be David Milliband who looks and sounds like a run of the mill Labour councillor. If not Gordon Brown other possibilities would include Patricia Hewitt, Stephen Byers, Ed Balls, Alastair Darling, Andrew Smith, Alan Johnson, Dawn Primarolo.

[a-tracy]

Why?--because he is a better debater and more experienced than either of the leadership candidates.

Better experienced at what? losing and then quitting! Look I like William Hague but he's no superman. I can't say that I've seen him promoting the party either for the past few years.

"If not Gordon Brown other possibilities would include Patricia Hewitt, Stephen Byers, Ed Balls, Alastair Darling, Andrew Smith, Alan Johnson, Dawn Primarolo."

Yes I thought Patricia Hewitt too especially when she underwent her 'how to look 10 years younger period'.

[Alastair Matlock]

My compliments to Wat for a very balanced and informative report. I wasn't sure how well Wat would manage objectivity, but I see nothing to complain about in what he has written above. I had planned to attend the Frimley hustings myself, but I was unable to do so this morning due to illness. Glad to hear it was so well attended and well received.

[anon]

"Look I like William Hague but he's no superman. I can't say that I've seen him promoting the party either for the past few years."

He has been a backbench MP for four years--after serving the party on the front bench, (including as leader for four years), for many more than that. Also, unlike Portillo, Clarke, IDS and many others he hasn't been disloyal to any conservative leader, engaged in public criticism outside of leadership contests or made petulant threats to resign the Conservative whip.

[anon]

"Better experienced at what? losing and then quitting!"

Are you saying David Cameron or David Davis would have won the 2001 election? More experienced means he was a cabinet minister before becoming leader, which neither Cameron or Davis have--Cameron has been an MP for just four years. Cameron has been on the front bench in opposition for six months. Davis for four years, but in a more junior position than Hague.

[Barbara Villiers]

Well Comrade, that would be telling!

I have to laugh at both candidates eagerness to have Hague in their Shadow Cabinet - I seem to remember that we couldn't get rid of him quick enough, not to mention the utterly sickmaking plotting that went on from the Portillistas.

Hague has such a spring in his step since becoming a backbencher (not to mention considerably richer) that I think it might take a lot to convince him to return to the Shadow Cabinet - anybody's Shadow Cabinet.

[James Hellyer]

"Are you saying David Cameron or David Davis would have won the 2001 election?"

I don't believe we could have won in 2001, no matter who was leader. However, I think almost anyone other than William Hague would have delivered a better result for us. His leadership style was somewhere between rudderless and misguided, with no clear strategy or approach being apparent. Indeed he badly damaged what credibility we had by opposing things like the minimum wage with prophecies of economic doom, which were then not fulfilled.

[a-tracy]

Indeed he badly damaged what credibility we had by opposing things like the minimum wage with prophecies of economic doom, which were then not fulfilled.

James it takes time for doom to become apparent. As the NMW pushed up wage differentials it is no longer viable to manufacture many items from pottery to wiring looms for cars in the UK. The true effects of this increase have been masked by the huge increase in personal debt that has been amassed by UK citizens and subsequently spent mainly within the UK economy sustaining growth, however, it is unsustainable as we are now seeing with the contraction of high street retail sales throughout 2005. This will impact over the course of the next two years as people wrestle with their debts, interest payments, and higher taxes. We also know that increased energy costs and fuel will play their part. Putting greater pressure on wage inflation. Our competitiveness in the world market has been undermined and one should also remember that many of our flag ship companies in recent years have been purchased by foreign companies and as such have absolutely no allegience to the peoples of Great Britain other than when they are fleecing us of our hard earned income.

"I don't believe we could have won in 2001, no matter who was leader."

Yes it's tough to compete with a party giving away everyone else's money to their fundraisers.

[TC]

"If not Gordon Brown other possibilities would include Patricia Hewitt, Stephen Byers, Ed Balls, Alastair Darling, Andrew Smith, Alan Johnson, Dawn Primarolo."

Dawn Primarolo???? Thankfully the mother of IR35 has not been promoted since this incredibly botched and vindictive bit of taxation came into force.

At least Hague had the courage to pledge to abolish it; I am still waiting to hear from Cameron if he opposes it.

Is it asking too much these days to expect a Conservative leader to shares the concerns of small businesses?

From today's Telegraph

"Rumours have been rife that in order to hammer home his Eurosceptic credentials, Mr Cameron would pull Tory MEPs out of the EPP before Christmas.

Addressing a meeting of 1,000 Tory members in Frimley, Surrey, yesterday, Mr Cameron replied "yes" when asked about withdrawal.
But he appeared to avoid revealing his timetable by delegating the issue to his future foreign affairs spokesman if he won the leadership.

His aides immediately insisted that their candidate was using the same form of words he had always used on the issue. "There is no backtracking," said a spokesman.

The spokesman insisted that "if David Cameron becomes leader, we will leave the EPP" but in a dig at Mr Davis for over-detailed policy pledges, he said it would be "a mistake to set out a precise timetable".

SOUNDS LIKE HE'S WOBBLING!!

[anon]

"Indeed he badly damaged what credibility we had by opposing things like the minimum wage with prophecies of economic doom, which were then not fulfilled."

He changed party policy away from opposing the minimum wage. He did not make prophecies of economic doom. He did make some mistakes.... the fate of all inexperienced leaders....

[Gillibrand]

"Today however, he said while he was convinced it is right, the "timetable" would be a matter for the new Shadow Foreign Secretary. Sounded like another of those DC rethinks."

What a surprise!

No way to win a war. May join the resistance and then again might not.

[henry curteis]

'he (Hague) badly damaged what credibility we had by opposing things like the minimum wage with prophecies of economic doom, which were then not fulfilled.'

Yes James. Maybe the result of having a management consultancy background. And yet longterm Hague was right. The minimum wage has lifted youth unemployment - not yet to European levels which are 25% nationally and in pockets far worse than that. The minimum wage has destroyed millions of jobs across Europe.