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« Hustings Report (9): London | Main | Sky TV Debate »

Comments

Rick

Electability in itself is not and should not be the determining factor for choosing someone we deem to be suitable to run a country.

That is a purist position, Labour gave carte blanche to Blair and Mandelson to get them elected, and now they are wondering whee this Faustian Bargain has taken them with their Little Mephistopheles.

Cameron is clearly the choice if Tories consider they cannot win an outright majority and may need to be in cohabitation if not coalition with the LibDems - having a common position on most issues should make it easier for a Lib-Dem-Conservative coalition nationally as in many local councils such as Bradford or Leeds

EU Serf

A word to Wasp

Which part of, "the EU runs our lives" don't you understand?

Time to ditch the sitting on the fence and leave the EPP.

Strategically its a very important move that will strengthen the party in the future. By offering a real alternative to Labour's talk tough / surrender approach to the EU, we can make it into a vote winner.

James Maskell

I wasnt criticisng you Daniel. Maybe I wrote it slightly wrong. What I meant to say is that reason D is a very strong reason for me not to support Cameron. I support any attempts to allow adoption to be widened so that there is greater opportunity for children in care to find a permanent home. I do not support votes against increasing those opportunities. No criticism of you at all, in fact I support what you say.

Daniel Vince-Archer

Thanks James M. Contrary to popular belief on this blog, I am not an uncaring, heartless, uncompassionate {sic?} ogre so was worried that I may have inadvertently offended you, but I'm glad that's not the case!

Lancake

Can I throw a different point out there and see what people think...

These polls about Brown being more popular than either Davis or Cameron - guff in my view.

I have a feeling that the English will not vote for the Scot Gordon Brown. So having an Englishman as party leader with Brown and Kennedy running the other two parties could be important.

Am I the only one to think that? Have I got the English wrong??

Lancake

Can I throw a different point out there and see what people think...

These polls about Brown being more popular than either Davis or Cameron - guff in my view.

I have a feeling that the English will not vote for the Scot Gordon Brown. So having an Englishman as party leader with Brown and Kennedy running the other two parties could be important.

Am I the only one to think that? Have I got the English wrong?? My best mate whose Scottish agrees...

 Ted

Has anyone noiced that on BBC recently whenever they show a sequence with Gordon (ie on Pensions stuff) they freeze image at end so he looks very unattractive (eyes shut or glowering).

Think the public have seen very little of the unattractive Gordon Brown - it's coming out with his spin on Pensions, rubbishing an unpublished report - he seems to have worse propensity to try to spin that TB does but doesn't have TB's actor quality.

Will be interesting to see if he can become the new hope for Labour or if he'll be another unelected pm who fails at first election (Jim Callaghan Mark II)

wasp

Serf the EU does not run your life that is a pathetic myopic obsession run riot.

The things that matter most in people's lives are education, healthcare, state of the economy, defense.

With the exception of defense which has been outsourced to Washington those are all UK controlled areas. Unless you are a farmer, human rights lawyer or fisherman the EU does not run your life.

Yes the EU does have regulations which impinge on businesses but many of those are expounded on by UK civil servants and I imagine the majority would have been introduced by Labour anyway.

In case you have not noticed Britain is a major player in the EU, our representatives are doing their bit to fight for Britain, hell the most important person in the EU is the trade commissioner who is...British!

Jack Stone

So Barbara would rather have Gordon Brown running the country than David Cameron.
I just don`t understand why this"american" lady keeps contributing to this site when she seems to have more time for our enemies than our friends.
If you spent the first part of your life in the U.S. no wonder you were against Nixon!

John Hustings

"So Barbara would rather have Gordon Brown running the country than David Cameron."

It is a matter of what you think is in the long term interests of the country. If David Cameron is just a modern version of an old-style wet (I haven't made up my mind yet, we'll see), then he could do the Conservative cause more harm than good. For example, in hindsight, one could say it might have been better for Neil Kinnock to have beaten John Major in 1992 given the harm that the Major years did both to the country and to the Conservatives' reputation.

Richard Carey

"I will point out that my concerns about a NewLabourised Conservative Party won't miraculously vanish on December 6th just because (as seems likely) Cameron has become leader."

That's a "no", to my question, then. You won't do your all to support the democratically elected leader of our Party in December, if they don't meet with your wishes.

Secondly, do not compare me with having a "mentality akin to that of a small child" - in the words of our culture of 24-hour drinking, come and have a go when you think you're hard enough!

Seriously, which target seat did you help to win at the last General Election, and why will you not pledge to help the democratically elected Leader win at the next one? Petulance, perhaps? I have already cast my vote for David Cameron, but will happily work under a Davis leadership. We are all Conservatives, after all.

Why not promote your current favoured candidate (I am presuming DD...) instead of using all your posts to bash DC. Surely such an action would do more to boost our political standing as a party that is for people, rather than against them.

John Hustings

"We are all Conservatives, after all."

It's funny how often Cameron himself says this sort of thing. Seems like he thinks we need convincing...

Richard Carey

""We are all Conservatives, after all."

It's funny how often Cameron himself says this sort of thing. Seems like he thinks we need convincing..."

And it isn't true??

While I am sure that this does not apply to you, you have to admit that given some of the past conduct of members of our Party that a very few just might still need convincing! While I hate to draw attention to it, we have not exactly been a picture of harmonious peace and unflinching political focus in the 90's and early 2000's.

Given the sharp focus that the vast majority showed in the 2005 campaign, I think we have long since got over that as a party and should keep it up. I will of course resist all attempts to undo this, as I believe that they are pretty obviously against the interests of the Party winning again.

Daniel Vince-Archer

"You won't do your all to support the democratically elected leader of our Party in December, if they don't meet with your wishes."

Leaving aside the questionable point about being democratically elected, I don't subscribe to this 'support the party, come what may' brand of blind tribal loyalty being rammed down our throats at every turn and which we have ridiculed Labour voters in St Helens and Hartlepool for in recent times. As for your point about not supporting the democratically elected leader if they don't meet with my wishes, I assume this means you support this country's democratically elected leader even if he doesn't meet your wishes? One of the wonderful things about democracy is the ability to oppose and to criticise, and any 'democratically' elected party leader should appreciate this. The alternative is dictatorship.

"Secondly, do not compare me with having a "mentality akin to that of a small child" - in the words of our culture of 24-hour drinking, come and have a go when you think you're hard enough!"

Oh for goodness' sake, calm down would you? I didn't suggest you have the mentality of a small child, I pointed out that your mentality of choosing a leader solely on the basis of electability (i.e. style) over political virtue (i.e. substance) is akin to that of a small child opening its presents on Christmas Day and being more interested in the wrapping paper (i.e. style) than what's inside (i.e. substance).

"Seriously, which target seat did you help to win at the last General Election?"

Cardiff Central. I chose to use my vote effectively at the last election. The Conservative candidate stood no chance of getting elected so I voted tactically for the Liberal Democrat candidate in order to get the Blairite MP out. Please do not mistake this as a sign of Liberal Democrat support - the only thing it indicates is my loathing for Blairite vacuosity and NewLabouresque plastic politics.

"Why will you not pledge to help the democratically elected Leader win at the next one?"

See above.

"Petulance, perhaps?"

Not at all. My opposition to David Cameron has been clear since the outset of the leadership contest and is not related to petulance or bitterness about the elimination of a particular candidate from the contest. If you want to know more about the reasoning behind my position, I suggest you visit the blog that I edit.

"We are all Conservatives, after all."

A belief in Conservative values and traditions does not automatically translate into support for a NewLabourised Conservative Party.

Richard Carey

Daniel,

I can see that this debate on the leadership is one that neither of us is going to win...I apologise if the tone of my comments was a little too heated.

I just hope that we can *both* still be working side-by-side for the Party on 6th December - whatever the outcome, I would much rather see a Conservative government in the next parliament that a fourth-term Labour one!

John Hustings

"I just hope that we can *both* still be working side-by-side for the Party on 6th December - whatever the outcome, I would much rather see a Conservative government in the next parliament that a fourth-term Labour one!"

I might feel the same way if I didn't suspect that there will be a witch-hunt on the part of "modernisers" against social conservatives. The tone of the first day of the party conference suggested as much.

Daniel Vince-Archer

"I might feel the same way if I didn't suspect that there will be a witch-hunt on the part of "modernisers" against social conservatives. The tone of the first day of the party conference suggested as much."

Don't forget the 'conform or bugger off' attitude that's been so aggressively displayed by many of the Cameronites, and the infamous 25% strategy of course.

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