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« 'Comeback kid' Davis will relaunch this week | Main | ICM poll undermines Clarke's leadership pitch »

Comments

Daniel Vince-Archer

"Well Mr.Andy, I'm 25 years old, live in London and went to public school. So I'm afraid making out that all those who have seen through this vacuous individual are elderly, rural and inverted snobs, won't wash. I speak to a lot of young people and most of them, so much as they care, are amazed the Tories continually pass over Ken Clarke, despite his age. He appeals to the anti-political generation which is the 24-35 age group. I also doubt whether they'll be impressed with Cameron's evasivness about answering a straightforward question."

I second everything Adrian said. I am 22, I grew up in a large new town (Stevenage), I went to university in a town far from being a bastion of Conservatism (Aberystwyth) and I currently work in the capital and largest city in Wales (Cardiff). Elderly, rural and an inverted snob I am not. I support Ken Clarke, and can assure you that many of my contemporaries agree that he is the best man for the Conservatives.

I was 7 when Thatcher left Downing Street. I am not obsessed with her. But this does not mean I am obsessed with Blair either. The Conservatives can be modernising without NewLabourising. Casting off the spectre of Thatcher does not mean we cannot cast off the spectre of Blair at the same time, and vice-versa.

andyh

A question to everone.If the candidate you most dislike becomes leader,will you put your full support behind him?

Bob

Well, we've come a long way from "thou shalt not speak ill of a fellow Conservative".

There's nothing wrong with having doubts about Cameron as leader. I still have a couple, even if I'm leaning his way.

However, some of the comments on here seem to me to be vindictive and mean-spirited, in tone as well as content. Mr. Hellyer, with all due respect I think your comments about Cameron "using his disabled child to score political points" are pretty low. I can only imagine, and hope, that a good guy like Liam Fox wouldn't approve if he read what you posted.

Elena

Andy, yes I will. I think it's good to have internal debate before the election, but once its over I really will support whoever is chosen (yes, even David Davis!)

andyh

"Andy, yes I will. I think it's good to have internal debate before the election, but once its over I really will support whoever is chosen (yes, even David Davis!)"

Elena, are you a member?

tom

Jay - Point is that the usual stereotype of OEs are that they are grandees not radical environmentalists or as you say it 'meejah types' such as Palash. Views found in the ecologist on the face of it do not tally with the traditional conservative party, - amazed that I have to explain this really - but anyway there you go - anyway once more with feeling - tory pary needs to change or die. You are obviously of the more suicidal variety...but bearing in mind you haven't got the patience to be anything other than hyper defensive and unconstructive - I wouldnt expect anything less.

Jack Stone

It doesn`t surprise me the bile and low politics that is being leveled at David Cameron.
For the first time in eight years the right can see there control of the party slipping away from them and they don`t like it.
The way they are reacting to the Cameron surge I have no doubt that within the next few days we are likely to have before too long allegations that Cameron eats human flesh for breakfast!

Jack Stone

It doesn`t surprise me the bile and low politics that is being leveled at David Cameron.
For the first time in eight years the right can see there control of the party slipping away from them and they don`t like it.
The way they are reacting to the Cameron surge I have no doubt that within the next few days we are likely to have before too long allegations that Cameron eats human flesh for breakfast!

David Taylor

If it won him the leadership he would!

Daniel Vince-Archer

"It doesn`t surprise me the bile and low politics that is being leveled at David Cameron."

Let's not go throwing stones in glass houses, Jack.

Daniel Vince-Archer

"It doesn`t surprise me the bile and low politics that is being leveled at David Cameron."

Let's not go throwing stones in glass houses, Jack.

Elena

Yes Andy.

James Hellyer

Mr. Hellyer, with all due respect I think your comments about Cameron "using his disabled child to score political points" are pretty low.

Not as low as the series of personal attacks I've seen today. You may disagree with my comment, but the personal tragedy of the Camerons' child has been used to counter accusations concerning his privileged background meaning he'd be out of touch with "normal" people. In doing that the Cameron campaign has made political capital out of that child. You may find reference to them doing so " pretty low", but that's how I feel about a child being used in that way.

The worst cases are from Cameron's "friends", Perhaps he should tell them that saying he's a victim of tragedy does not in itself do anything to qualify him to lead a political party.

As for the drugs issue, Cameron's failure to answer the question gave the story legs. If he hadn't taken drugs, he should have denied taking them(presumably he has and is afraid of being outed if he made a denial). If he has taken drugs, he shoud have said so, which beyond the immediate aftermath would have killed the story - there would have been nothing to uncover or repeatedly ask him. The strategy he has adopted reminds me of political mentor, who failed when faced with another yes/no question: "did you threaten to overrule him?"

That we are dwelling what should be minor issues, is perhaps indicative of a campaign that has become the frontrunner with reference to only one substantive issue - synthetic phonics.

Daniel Vince-Archer

"So Daniel you think David Cameron should not talk about his family? It is wrong for politicians to talk about their family full stop?"

I think you'll find my point was that it is distasteful for his son to be used to make or refute political points and I thoroughly resent the aggressive vilification of people who highlight that Cameron is open to such an accusation.

Cllr Iain Lindley

David,

I now see why the Tory party is losing elections!!
People like Cllr Iain walk around neighbourhoods telling people who question why they should vote Tory: "because you should, don't question it - just do it". Great logic, the intellect of the Tory party is not dead!

I like it when people make posts like this. It screams "open goal".

I'm a Conservative Councillor in a genuine inner-city authority (Salford). I was elected to Walkden South ward (my home ward) last June. The last Conservative Councillor in Walkden prior to myself lost his seat in 1979. I work bloody hard for the Conservative Party in an area we've traditionally done absymally in.

I will continue to work hard for my local area and for the Conservative Party whoever is elected leader. I care about my local community, unlike Labour who have arrogantly neglected it and milked it for decades, and then I come on here and hear ignorant morons like yourself threaten to take their ball home if they don't get their choice of leader.

There's been mud-slinging here on all sides and I'm sure I've made the odd unfortunate comment myself. However this thread has sunk to a new low, and Cameron has borne the brunt of this. It really isn't doing your favoured candidates any favours.

The vitriol on this thread today is exactly the reason that the electorate has deemed us a divided, squabbling rabble who are unfit to rule. It has to stop - whoever is elected leader.

David Taylor

Iain

I am afraid instinctive Tories like you are what alienate people from politics. The vast majority of the public have a set of values and know what they want from their politicians. They will vote Labour if the manifesto policies of the Labour are more lkely to give them what they want. If the Lib Dems produce a set of policies that I see as innovative and creative i will join them and campaign for them. At the moment the Conservatives commitment to small government and a passion for the family appeal to me.

I do give you credit for an obvious commitment to your local area but I must beg for you to become more pragmatic. The Tory party is only as strong as its policies and as Francis Maude sad: "It has no god given right to survive". I agree, this is the reason I don't want Cameron to win. I apologise if I offended you.

David

Editor

"There's been mud-slinging here on all sides and I'm sure I've made the odd unfortunate comment myself. However this thread has sunk to a new low, and Cameron has borne the brunt of this. It really isn't doing your favoured candidates any favours.

The vitriol on this thread today is exactly the reason that the electorate has deemed us a divided, squabbling rabble who are unfit to rule. It has to stop - whoever is elected leader."

I have to agree with Iain on this.

Let's try and keep the blogging passionate but civilised; substantial not personalised.

It's a new day tomorrow...

Jack Stone

If the party fails to elect David Cameron the press and voters at large will look at the party and think it is simply not serious about winning.
They will come to the conclussion which personally I supect may be right that the party is more interested in winning arguments than winning elections.

Ronald Collinson

He's youthful, energetic, and is saying what the public wants to hear.

Which is precisely the problem. Say he gets into power. The public will want to hear something else in a few years, and a new policy will be pulled out of a hat. There will be experiments, yes, and personal vanity might dictate a certain course of action. (Does this sound like anybody we know?) There will be no over-arcing vision; those policies which do exist will not be consistently followed; we may end up in power for some time, but we will accomplish nothing. Even remaining in power would be unlikely. Seeing our victory, Labour would revert to 'New', and then the democratic apocalypse occurs.

Incidentally, I'm sixteen. Despite going to a (state-funded) grammar school, most of my fellow pupils are completely apolitical. Even in my Government and Politics class, I hear comments like, "Malcolm Rifkind is an idiot because he looks like an idiot."

The view of most people I know is that politicians are liars. David Cameron might be 'young', but youth does not secure the support of the young. Honesty, integrity and conviction must be returned to politics. The sleaze-filled Major years, and, to an even greater extent, Tony Blair have taken away the credibility of politicians. 'Tory Blair' is not going to return it.

Richard Allen

While I respect the position of Cllr Iain Lindley that he would work for any leader I would simply put it to him that we all had our reasons for joining the conservative party. I have great fears that a David Cameron led party would not be one that I would feel able to remain in.

malcolm

So you would rather pack up ,leave and presumably be prepared for the continuance of the current Labour government? I'm not a Cameron supporther either but I get mightily fed up reading all these posts from people who feel that unless they get exactly the leader they want they quit.How self indulgent.

James Hellyer

He's youthful, energetic, and is saying what the public wants to hear.

Politics is about setting out what you believe and persuading other people to along with you. It isn't leadership to tell people what they want to hear.

That's why at the moment I fear thatif under a Cameron leadership someone asked "what do the Conservatives stand for", we wouldn't have a clear answer. We tried policy by focus group and opinion poll at the last election and we failed.

I'm far from convinced that David Cameron could make tough and even unpopular decisions. They aren't what people want to hear, after all. That he won't even answer a simple - if mildly controversial - question is perhaps a sign of this.

Cllr Iain Lindley

"I am afraid instinctive Tories like you are what alienate people from politics"

I don't think that anyone who knows me would ever call me an "instinctive Conservative". I've thought long and hard over my political views and why I hold them.

I am, however, mature enough to realise that any mainstream policy party has a breadth of opinion, and that very few people are going to agree on absolutely everything!

Ronald Collinson

...people who feel that unless they get exactly the leader they want they quit.

It's not like that. We anti-Cameron types fear that Cameron will steal the party from us; that it will simply become a machine for electoral success, much like New Labour. We would then be freed of any obligation to the party, because it would no longer represent the views of its members – it would no longer represent anything.

That said, I'm not going to give up just because he becomes party leader. I think that internal pressure could force Cameron to adopt a suitable course, and there is also a possibility that I'm just wrong about him.

If he has not solidified by the next general election, however, then I might be forced to use my first ever vote to reject the party which I hold so close to my heart.

Then again, this is all worst-case scenario stuff. I have faith in the party membership, and, to a certain extent, faith in the parliamentary party; I do not Cameron will win.

Cllr Iain Lindley

That he won't even answer a simple - if mildly controversial - question is perhaps a sign of this

Most politicians won't answer the cannabis question, because it is a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" question, and you know that very well. In the greater scheme of things it is a non-issue.

I suspect most people under 40 (including most Tory MPs) did things they'd later regret at University. Private Eye have featured the University antics of prominent Fox backer Greg Hands MP on a number of occasions, for example...

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