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« A series of appointments strengthens the Davis campaign | Main | Voting prediction winners »

Comments

Daniel Vince-Archer

"Oh Daniel, you epitomise the positive attitude our party needs to get into power. Is it any wonder..."

Sorry maybe I should rephrase that...

2005 - Clarke (preference) or Fox or Davis
2001 - Duncan Smith or Clarke or Davis or Ancram (no preference)
1997 - Hague or Clarke or Lilley or Howard (no preference)

I would have supported any of these men most positively. It was just easier to phrase this as 'anyone but X'.

Henry Cook

Okay - Positive in the sense that its alright to go in any direction known to man (or indeed to Tories). That's the spirit, let's shoot off in all directions. You even have been happy with the 'seaside donkey' in 2001!

Ready to go over the top lads?

Daniel Vince-Archer

Henry, for goodness' sake! Read my response to James Hellyer! I've laid out what I want to see from a Conservative leader. Unfortunately, when such a candidate fails to emerge, my loyalties lie with the party and with proper politics, not to plastic New Labour copycats or doppelgangers of Dr Spock from the lunatic fringe.

Yet another Anon

Iran has obviously emerged as a threat to the world.

Surely it is time to drive the Revolutionary Guard out of Lebanon and liberate the islands in the Straits of Hormuz that Iran seized illegally from the UAE in 2001 and given Iran's recent statements regarding Israel if they refuse to cooperate with inspections of their nuclear facilities then the USAF\RAF should embark on an all out programme of intensive bombing of Iranian military and nuclear facilities.

Henry Cook

"my loyalties lie with the party" - even if DC wins?

This myth of a New Labour copycat is rather amusing - this is a confirmed eurosceptic, a man who wants to cut taxes not raise them, a man who wants people to make choices for themselves not have the state make them on their behalf, a man who wants to support marriage through the tax system, a man who wants to get rid of political correctness in schools, a man who wants to keep the A levels, a man who wants to protect not destroy special schools, a man who wants to devolve government downwards not reign it in to the centre, a man who wants to help not hinder the voluntary sector, a man who wants to whole-heartedly not half-heartedly introduce choice, autonomy and competitivness in public services, a man who wants to reverse Labour's increased regulation, a man who wants to control immigration not let it run wild, a man who wants to return to Cabinet not presidential government, I could go on but I've probably sent you to sleep by now.

He aint New Labour - he's a Tory like you and me. If you disagree with any of the above, please say, and we can discuss if it is in fact a Conservative idea or not. We can disagree about how far such ideas should be taken (eg how far to cut tax) but we can agree on the basics, because we are all Conservatives.

James Hellyer

Henry,

I think some of us doubt that Mr Cameron actually holds all those convictions. Certainly a lot of the things he says about policy would indicate his leanings on some of these subjects, beyond those of the soundbite, are vestigial at best.

That's one reason why Mr Cameron needs to flesh out his ideas.

Rob

Henry- The 2005 manifesto might have been well written, but lets face it it didnt win us an election now did it. While many Cameron supporters seem to be accusing everyone else of looking for one more heave, Cameron is the one with no new ideas.

About Redwood as unelectable as Barry Goldwater in 1964 he may be, but at least he is prepared to argue for more radical ideas, not saying I agree with all of his at all! Indeed to quote the infamous Goldwater, we need a leader to give us "a choice, not an echo". Why cant we come out fighting and make the case for reducing the size of government all together. We have 5 years, surely thats long enough to convince enough voters that government is the problem?

Henry Cook

Well, I'm (fairly) confident I can point you to a source for each of these things. He has worked for the Conservative Party most of his life - it would be an odd thing to do if he did not share its principles.

Henry Cook

"The 2005 manifesto might have been well written, but lets face it it didnt win us an election now did it. While many Cameron supporters seem to be accusing everyone else of looking for one more heave, Cameron is the one with no new ideas."

My point was that it couldn't win an election because the groundwork done by the Shadow Cabinet wasn't good enough. He made the best of what he was given IMO. Concerning ideas, I think your being unfair, but I'm sure I won't be able to convince you. I think it will be the responsibility of the whole Shadow Cabinet to come up with radical and exciting new ideas over the next few years. Each Shadow Minister must bring something valuable to the table.

James Hellyer

"Well, I'm (fairly) confident I can point you to a source for each of these things. He has worked for the Conservative Party most of his life - it would be an odd thing to do if he did not share its principles"

I don't think I've made myself very clear. I know what David Cameron has said about the EU, for example, ane the need to take back certain powers. However nothing he's said implies he understands or will do what that will take. In fact, Major said similar things and did the opposite. So words aren't enough and Cameron doesn't have the history of policy positions lend his words credence.

In fairness, I'd say DD's euroscepticism is also not particularly concrete.

Henry Cook

On Europe, there is little that can be achieved without the cooperation of other nation states. Some may want to withdraw from the EU (do you?) but the other way to go is renegotiation. It will take a lot of convincing, but other European countries must soon (and some already do) realise that the present model simply isn't working. Right now, with Chirac et al, renegotiation isn't viable. However we must work at it and in 10 years the situation could be very different, with a new generation of leaders across Europe. I believe DC has indicated this approach with his desire "for an open and flexible Europe" and his proposal to withdraw from the EPP. Other than withdrawal which I would strongly oppose, there is no quick fix.

Coxy

97 - Howard initially (until mauled by Widdy), Hague in the final round.
01 - IDS all the way, and I still say he did a lot of good.
05 - Foxy first, now Davis.

Rob

Henry-

Clearly the Shadow Cabinet must all bring ideas to the table, and I wouldnt be stupid enough to pin any blame solely on anyone for the failed 2005 campaign, however Cameron as a leader seems to me unlikely to bring any significant radical or fresh ideas. However I would be delighted if he was to suprise me and start talking about flat tax etc. I'm not too optimistic though.

Rick

"However I would be delighted if he was to suprise me and start talking about flat tax etc."


Oh ! You mean the first £20.000 of earned income is tax-free and after that all forms of income are taxed at a flat rate of 80%.

I suppose it would attract some people

Daniel Vince-Archer

"Even if DC wins?"

As I said elsewhere, I will act in what I deem to be the best interests of Conservative ideals and values, as well as supporting politics of principle, even if the leader of the party does not.

"This is... a man who wants to cut taxes not raise them, a man who wants people to make choices for themselves not have the state make them on their behalf, a man who wants to support marriage through the tax system, a man who wants to get rid of political correctness in schools, a man who wants to protect not destroy special schools, a man who wants to devolve government downwards not reign [sic] it in to the centre, a man who wants to help not hinder the voluntary sector, a man who wants to whole-heartedly not half-heartedly introduce choice, autonomy and competitivness [sic] in public services, a man who wants to reverse Labour's increased regulation, a man who wants to control immigration not let it run wild, a man who wants to return to Cabinet not presidential government..."

It's all very well harping on about what he wants to do, when will he start telling us how he will do these things?

Several of these points are also unopposable {sic?} - let's face it, who does want to destroy special schools, hinder the voluntary sector and let immigration run wild? Stating support for things that every rational person supports is not a policy - it is, however, a well-known trait {sic?} of Blair and New Labour.

In any case, one of my fundamental concerns is that Cameron seems to be adopting the style of Blair and New Labour and is attempting to present himself as a plastic everyman and I have quite considerable disquiet about what this would entail for the health of democracy and politics in this country if (when?) he becomes leader.

After the nuclear devastation that was the 1997 General Election defeat, Conservatives have been huddled in their bunker for the past eight years - looking to each other for comfort.

Now it seems safe to step outside and view the world again. It may have changed, transformed by the New Labour attack. But David Cameron is holding open the door, it looks sunny, the people are smiling at us...dare we venture outside?

Rick

" who does want to destroy special schools"

Wandsworth Council

Daniel Vince-Archer

"After the nuclear devastation that was the 1997 General Election defeat, Conservatives have been huddled in their bunker for the past eight years - looking to each other for comfort. Now it seems safe to step outside and view the world again. It may have changed, transformed by the New Labour attack. But David Cameron is holding open the door, it looks sunny, the people are smiling at us...dare we venture outside?"

Well done anonymous. One small point though. In the nuclear devastation of 1997, the swing against a certain David Cameron was greater than the general swing against the Conservatives to the equivalent of 190,093 national votes (think about how much difference these votes could have made in wafer-thin marginals) at the 2005 election. It might look sunny, but we don't want to get caught by sunburn or by sudden media thunderstorms do we? Remember, only mad dogs and Englishmen go out in the midday sun.

James Maskell

"What a lovely comparison (and a soundbite for our opposition!). I did say that this leadership election among the membership could be great, if we had the intelligence to keep it unremittingly positive. Oh, dear..."

It makes the point though. Its easy for anyone to say they care about something but they need to explain what they mean by it. Its like saying "I care about public services"...of course you do, but it doesnt explain what you would do to public services if elected.

DD today has made a real explanation of his view on the economy and tax. Thats what I was looking for. DD could have just left it at "I believe in low taxes" but instead has explained it more.

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