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« Andrew Lansley: Policies cannot exist in a values vacuum | Main | David Davis: Six priorities for strengthening society »


Selsdon Man

What about the Smith Square? That has cost the party millions.

James Maskell

Another wonderful example set to the public. Not only will the Party strip you of the vote...itll also put the country into huge amounts of debt. This is not the sort of publicity the party needs right now.

Norman Fowler comes out now...I struggle to see why people with such strong principles wait so long before coming out against these proposals. It just seems very late to come out now when the vote is in 13 days. Why not come out 2 weeks ago, or earlier when the proposals were put out initially?

James Hellyer

The problem with people coming out against the Monbiot-Maude-Howard proposals now, is that it looks like its solely motivaterd by getting their choice of leader installed. In this case there's some evidence that a member's ballot may be more favourable to Clarke than an MPs only vote. Coincidence?

Wat Tyler

James...yes, I heard Fowler's interview.

Go figure.

Selsdon Man

The answer my friend is blowing with the wind. Apologies to Bob Dylan.

Selsdon Man

How can the debt can be cleared in time for a 2007/8 general election. CCHQ thinks that PM Brown might call an early election to get his own mandate.

We outspent all the other parties in last year's European Elections but the result was poor.

It is time that, to use Howard's phrase, that those responsible were held accountable.


Even 'though I work in advertising I'm still very sceptical as to whether spending huge amounts of money on election campaigns actually achieves anything.Maybe I'm being niave.
PS Selsdon,I didn't understand your Bob Dylan post.

Selsdon Man

FAO Malcolm - from Bob Dylan's Blowin' In The Wind

"Yes, 'n' how many years can some people exist
Before they're allowed to be free?
Yes, 'n' how many times can a man turn his head,
Pretending he just doesn't see?
The answer, my friend, is blowin' in the wind,
The answer is blowin' in the wind."

James Maskell

Howard tells people that they should vote for the proposals because they were passed by the MPs and the Board...of course they were. Why would the Board, which is at least partly made up of MPs along with the other head honchos, vote against the proposals? Also why would the MPs wish to give the membership their powers? Howard sounds increasingly desperate here. If I was Howard I would just let nature take its course. Its hard for him to accept his proposals might be defeated but he should know that this was likely to happen.

Selsdon Man

Malcolm, I agree that spending alone does not bring success. Other key factors are the message and the issues.


Selsdon,I know the words old boy,(used to play drums in a very unsuccessful band in the early '80's and we played a few Dylan numbers including this one when we had a more mature audience) I just didn't understand the context of your post!

Selsdon Man

I meant that senior figures in the party were blowing with the wind (the members) - i.e. they think that the reforms will be defeated and want to be seen backing the winning side. They would have kept quiet if they thought that Howard would get his way.

Wat Tyler

Mrs T won't let me play my Dylan LPs (sic)- she says it's a depressing reminder of how "mature" we've become.

But of course, not as mature as Norman F, Ken and Hezza.

Wat Tyler

Although I did like one of Ken's comments in his characteristically cocky Times interview this am. Denying he was too old for the job, he said: “You can tell when someone is too old when they spend too much time reminiscing.”

Which reminds me of the time when...

James Maskell

Francis Maude is making things worse again by warning MPs if they dont vote for the proposals they will look "pretty damn silly". Its on the BBC. He calls it a "gentle reminder"!

No Francis Maude...YOU'LL look pretty damn silly.

Another thing noticed is that Edward Leigh is considering standing for election since the candidates dont sound good enough for the Cornerstone group.

Selsdon Man

Leigh, if he stands, will look pretty damned silly. If he cannot back Fox or Davis, no one will satisfy his pathetic ego.

Daniel Vince-Archer

I think delusional is clearly a better word for describing Edward Leigh.

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