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Well, this isn't entirely positive, it could simply mean they wish to scrutinise us like never before. Which is not a problem, but will slow things up, I'm sure.

That may be true. The BBC still give Labour the benefit of the doubt though. We still seem to have to fight tooth and claw to get our announcements some media coverage.
Maybe they pay more attention and then decide that the voters aren't interested.

After the frenzy last summer to diss George, this is fantastic news!

This is going to be the problem for the Tories from now o in. As you announce 'policy' you will come under increased scrutiny and this is why the polls will narrow.

You hope joshuwahwah. Whateever you think of the Conservative Party the wheels have fallen off Labour.All around there are signs of gross incompetence from the government. The narrative has changed, you'd better get used to it.

One BBC journalist told me that his colleagues and editors were now more interested in an announcement from George Osborne than from Alistair Darling."

Well probably true, but his is a bit like saying people trust Jonathan King more with their kids than Gary Glitter.

The YouGov poll clearly showed that amongst the public, Osborne is ranked equally as low as Darling with Cable higher than both.

Malcolm Dunn.Increasing questions will be asked by people of conservative policy as the election nears and it is obvious that once that policy is more closely examined the large leads we now see will get smaller.
The large leads are down to Labour unpopularity. Very little I think is bound to a positive endorsement of the Tory`s.
I think the challenge for both Osborne and Cameron is now to convince a public that is listening and wants I think to be convinced by the party to go out there and convince them.

"As you announce 'policy' you will come under increased scrutiny "

You would have thought so, but talk of austerity measures hasn't done any real damage yet. I think the public are aware that Labour has been living in a fools paradise and are ready for the truth. The budget was so horrible the level of debt so extreme, that only the most dependant are likely to want to see Labour survive. The British public have a very strong backbone which has seen them put up with a great deal of hardship for causes they understand. Of course a lot will depend on the delivery.
It is interesting to see that it is the Blairights who are opposing the 50% tax rise rather than the sensible Tory's in the house as I speak. Of course who in their right mind would oppose such a useful stick with which to beat Labour later? 2 Million unemployed and rising, house prices falling, prospects disappearing, pensions gone, A falling pound, Nasty state spying, Id Cards and a Dishonest War with Iraq, just a few of Labours sins. Its going to take a great deal of bad news from the Conservatives to put a dent in the publics impression that Labour are simply not up to the job.

trouble is most journalists are hanging on every word Vince Cable says!!!!!!

Well from the Treasury the latest bon mot is :
"How nicer it will be to (k)not Gordon than to untangle Gordian knots"

Are they?!!! Emily?!!! Well, do report back if he says anything worth listening to!!!!!

The day of the election, no one will remember a single thing about what was said today.

General principals, oft repeated yes - specific bits and pieces said now - no.

If the tories really need something to bang on about, it must be "what's your plan gordon" ?

Malcolm Dunn,

Your arrogance is rather frightening. Please use your brain. Last year you went 20 points ahead in the polls, you then announced some Green policy and your fall from grace was dramatic. You are very naive if you think that you will maintain a constant lead of between 15-20 point lead in the polls.I do understand that Labour are struggling at the minute but events can change very quickly. I am not expecting us to win the next GE but don't be so cock sure of your party, stranger things have happened.

PS: I asked you the other week if you were a local councilor and if so where at. You didn't reply.

Journalists have always been interested in what Tory leaders say. So they can yell Tory cuts or Tory splits. Long ago they gave up looking carefully at Labour or the Lib/Dems since they knew perfectly well that anything said was more for media interest than definite policy. Tories grinding on about the details of policy are not only not box office they provide an array of oportunities for the media to "manufacture" interest. Of course it is bad for the country and has been the fundemental approach of the Lib/Dems since Ashdown and of Labour since Blair. The Tories are still trying to operate in a 1970s media world.

The BBC are still biased towards Labour. Listening yesterday morning to the paper review on the Radio 4 8 o'clock bulletin the newspaper review you were left with the impression that none of the papers carried anything in the slighest way critical of the budget. The review centered around the Independent's article on a visit by Cameron to South Africa ages ago and on the ComRes opinion poll that seemed to show a favourable response to Darling's announcement.

Then, on the World at One Shaun Lay tried to rubbish the Conservative's statement on the need for cuts in spending. The next feature, without any apparent understanding of the irony, was about the BBC hiring a train to cover the Indian elections.

However, the post script to David Smith's article in yesterday's Business Section of the Sunday Times was interesting. After admitting that he had criticised George Osborne in the past "reflecting the doubts I hear from business people" he went on to write:

"The shadow chancellor's advisers point to groundwork he has laid in preparing people for a different era of public spending and exploring the processes to more tightly control it. Next will come detail on arreas from which government will have to withdraw to slim down the state. It sounds promising."

Sorry about the repeat of a phrase in the above and one or two typos. I caught the Post button before I meant to!

Joshuwahwah. I can only admire your mindless loyalty to the degenerate remains of a once-great Party of the working class. You are, however, passing wind in the face of thunder. Accept reality. By the time Labour, or the successor, are in a state to be electable, you will be old enough to take a leading role.

I am afraid grumpy old man that I am not a fair weather glory hunter. I still believe in the fundamentals of social justice and fairness.Something which the Conservative party don't. Two examples only are needed....IHT to be raised, making 3000 of the richest estates in the UK even richer, conversely, the Tories will phase out minimum wage which benefits so many. Remember David Cameron fought against the minimum wage. That is reason 6748 why I will not be voting Tory.

"the Tories will phase out minimum wage which benefits so many."

It keeps literally hundreds of thousands stuck at the bottom working for poverty wages approved by the state. Tax credits had to be brought in to top up the income of people paid this insulting wage. It (minimum wage) is a government charter to exploit certain workers with their approval.It means that an unemployed person can be forced to except a lousy paying job because its "minimum wage" what do you expect!

"....IHT to be raised, making 3000 of the richest estates in the UK even richer"

And taking literally hundreds of thousands of poorer families out of it all together.

Two very weak examples you will have to do much better to convince me.

Oh shut up wahwah. You've got nothing to offer but shrill anti-mood music. What's wrong? You don't like politics being so surface? You'd prefer it to be more, ah, substantive? Well bog off back to 1995 and have a word with the sick synthetics in your own party, who invented the narrative ordeals we now live under.

And why do you care whether or not Malcolm is a councillor or not? Does Jacquee slip you a tenner for every update you supply to the database?

I am intrigued to know if he is a councillor. I suspect that you may know young alias type.

And don't tell me to shut up. If you don't have the intellectual capacity to be able to engage in debate then it is you who should remain silent.

: Wah! Wah! Labour! lets keep it civil. As it is I am quite happy to debate with joshuwahwah even if he is wrong. Its good practice for the doorstep campaigning to come. We are a civilised party that doesn't engage in insulting our opponents as a rule. Unlike the Liberals and dare I say at time the Labour party.


Have you seen the latest poll on another thread? Projected Tory majority of 170!

The reality is that Brown's ineptitude is making Labour's plight much worse! Even the BBC, and the Daily Mirror, will not be able to deliver him a victory at the polls next time!

Your party is now where ours was in 1997! Labour are electorally DOOMED!

'It keeps literally hundreds of thousands stuck at the bottom working for poverty wages approved by the state'

Ross, I see your point, however before the minimum wage Act an employer could pay what they wanted. For example a cleaner could and was paid around £1.20 per hour.


I congratulate you on this poll, well done to DC for all the hard work, but that poll lead will not last. I stated on another thread that as you start to release policy and it comes under intense scrutiny then the polls will narrow, it happens every single time. I expect us to go into the GE with conservatives around 9-11 points ahead


Merely because a poll lead hasn't lasted in the past doesn't mean to say that it won't last this time round!

This chap Gordon is the worst PM we've ever had. He makes mistake after mistake! Leaked Labour polling in the NOTW yesterday showed that the second item after MPs expenses on the mind of the public was Gordon Brown's leadership! If Labour doesn't challenge Gordon's leadership, Labour is likely to lose the next election badly!


That might be so. I am a member of the Labour party, not the Gordon Brown fan club.

Why not try and answer me on minimum wage and IHT?


you say: "I still believe in the fundamentals of social justice and fairness."

Grow up, no mainstream party believes in social *in*justice or *un*fairness.

I will even credit the labour party in saying they support these things - the main difference is in how it is delivered - socialism relies on patronage and constant intervention, so they always eventually fail because their method is unsustainable; whereas tories believe it is substantially a natural outcome of open opportunity and free enterprise and needs little (if any) active intervention so is possible and sustainable.


I note what you say about the Gordon Brown fan club - I should think that membership of that club is almost non existent.

Labour's problem is that the electorate don't distinguish between Labour and Gordon - that is one reason why you are going to lose!

Re IHT, it was originally intended as a tax that would be levied on very substantial estates. Under Labour the level at which the tax was levied did not rise at the same rate as eg:- land prices did. Additionally tax had to be paid up front before probate was granted - on real property payment by instalments was possible. You also had disagreeable issues like wrangles over property valuations and valuers tramping round houses valuing the personal effects of the deceased. The result of all this was that the descendants of many people with modest incomes who had saved all their lives had to pay the tax and suffer all the hassles caused by valuations. In their view the money was being taxed twice. To everybodys surprise IHT became the most unpopular tax in the country. The Conservatives policy was announced and Labour, under pressure, rather late in the day, feebly copied the Tory policies, but they set the level too low to cope with London prices! Non dom tax will fully fund the proposal.

Re the minimum wage. The Conservatives have now accepted it!

1) The BBC still haven't mentioned the series of very favourable poll leads that the Conservatives have enjoyed recently.

2)They still ignore most Conservative policy announcements, unless the policy is likely to get criticised. Often Labour's rebuttal gets more prominence.

3) The BBC don't take viewers' complaints about bias seriously.

When all this changes, I might, just might, beleive that the BBC is not institutionally biased against the Conseravative party!

Josh many wahwahs:
Do tell how 10p tax was the height of intellectual achievement, followed by the height of stupidity, followed by Nu-Labour refusal to take advice, followed by Nu-Labour ad-hoc reversal, - followed by a fix at any cost?
Well from the Treasury the latest bon mot is :
"How nicer it will be to (k)not Gordon than to untangle Gordian knots"
Gordon Brown is destroyed as having any credibility whatsoever. Darling is finished by accepting such a poisoned chalice. I said for some years, GB had arrogated such powers to Chancellor but if GB became PM no Chancellor coming in could be his own man.
Gordon Brown has squeezed out room for members of his cabinet to be their own people. Roll own Cameron and may he learn the lesson that allowing challenges allows you to grow and adapt.
I do so want to curse and swear about Gordon Brown's totalitarian ambitions, but I will do it offline.

joshwa+++ 'I still believe in the fundamentals of fairness and justice'

And what do you think that IDS spent 18months doing??? With a team he researched and produced a report that even your own friends had to admit, had a lot of merit, on the plight of the disadvantaged. And what have your lot down in 12 years?

Independent organisations have found that the gap between rich and poor, is wider than ever - despite all the money that has been thrown - so we have been told - at disadvantaged areas. Perhaps someone should check what, precisely it all went on!

You do love to think that you are the only person who can possibly believe in fairness and justice on this website! You put that bogey word 'Tory' in your text, and imply that all the people you answer, are somehow rich privileged students or toffs!!! Its quite childish really.

You have all slagged off Gordon Brown and the Labour party, but not once have you told me that 'Cameron' is the answer and that is because you don't believe he is. Apart from Sally Roberts and a few others on here who are champions of his, and I respect that, none of you think he is the man to lead this country. You would rather have a monkey in charge than Mr. Brown and Labour and that will once again be the Tories down fall. You will win the next GE, I know that but you will not win it because you are a party of ideas, you will win it because of this Government.

PS: Patsy, do you get any more patronising?

Back on topic - the media are listening to the Conservatives because news sells and what we are providing is ... news.

It may last. It may not. God willing, it will.

Josh - ordinarily I respect your views because you are quite bright. I suspect that you are a proper socialist and therefore I know where you stand. I can do business with you, as it were. On this thread, however, you are just being partisan.

Morning Dominic,

I have bloody Gout!! (leave the jokes haha) and have been in a cantankerous and argumentative mood all day because I am in bloody agony to say the least. I really must behave and apologise for my short fuse. More tablets and a little sleep and I will snap out of it. It's either that or I need a good slap. Oh I can see a queue forming already.

"That may be true. The BBC still give Labour the benefit of the doubt though. We still seem to have to fight tooth and claw to get our announcements some media coverage. "

When the Tories were last in power, did the BBC give them a fair hearing?
Is it an ingrained thing, or was it different in the 80's and 90's?

(my guess is that it all changed under Major)

Josh -
"You will win the next GE, I know that but you will not win it because you are a party of ideas, you will win it because of this Government."

I really dislike this argument (we've all heard those same lines time and time again).

If the Conservatives didn't form a credible opposition with the right ideas and a sense of heading the right direction, people wouldn't give them their support.
They would turn to the Liberal Democrats or the smaller parties.
You obviously feel that almost half of the electorate are idiots. Sour grapes I think.
Do you REALLY believe that the Conservative party doesn't have any ideas?
I think perhaps you should look at this current Labour government. The fact that they have repeatedly stolen ideas put forward by the Conservatives doesn't help your argument much, does it.
I apologise for this "rant" but it gets quite tiresome reading posts of this nature after you've read the first hundred or so.


You go into the nearest street right now and stop 10 people at random and ask them 'what is the Conservative and David Cameron's main policy for getting us out of this recession?'

I will bet my car that 3-4 might give you a half answer. At least 3 will not know who David Cameron is!

Your argument fails and the evidence is in the volatility of the polls.

Naughty Mr. Brown is bad.... some of Joe public says he will vote Tory. Mr. Brown is a good boy... some of Joe public says he will vote Labour again.

That is why the polls are over the place and keep changing dependent on what announcements are made.

Similarly, if the same question was asked regarding Labour's plans to get us out of the recession, all of those questioned would answer "More borrowing", with no knowledge of where that extra borrowing will be going.
I'm not convinced about your lack of knowledge of David Cameron, he's plastered over every newspaper regularly. So perhaps people who live under a rock or pay no attention to politics won't know who he is. Until very recently lots of people had no idea who Gordon Brown was.

My argument doesn't seem to fail at all does it? The Tories have been consistently at or above 40% for many months now, a sizeable chunk of the electorate have already made up their minds that they're going to vote Tory.
The percentage changes seen in the polling for Labour are very small indeed. Hardly an election deciding change is it?
Keep up the good work Labour.

Joshuawahah, clearly a decent chap, who cares deeply about Social Justice and Fairness as we genuine Conservatives do, you are just a little misguided in how this can be achieved.

All Leftists start out with this intent, but the waste and profligacy and central control and bureaucracy they always need ends up punishing the poorest and most vulnerable the most, in higher taxes, council tax bills, national insurance etc, let alone lower economic growth.

Let's look at Labour's committment to Social Justice and fairness shall we?

12 years in power and a tsunami of cash sprayed at (oops sorry "invested in") the public sector, and we have parts of Wales and Scotland where male life expectancy is lower than many thirld world economies (remember Glasgow East, Labour fiefdom for 100 years at Parliamentary and Council level, result male life expectancy of 55).

Dont you get it! It's is precisely this notion of "Social Fairness" which is the self inflicted disater by the Left. And how do you define Social Fairness or Justice anyhow? Take my own city of Newcastle upon Tyne, which Labour and their Lib Dem conspirators have succeeded in Sovietising (70% of the local Economy is Public sector related) Pensioners on fixed incomes realise that their is nothing fair or just about ever-rising Council Tax bills.

To say you are wrong-headed would be a compliment to your views, like most bien penants in the Labour 'movememt' you are smugly and complacently deluded that your views represent caring and compassion, when in truth and action they are always the very antithesis of these values.

I'd say go get a get a decent Education, but you be hard pressed to do so in Labour ruined Britain, a good education btw is something working class folk like me have always benefitted from, and why even by your own lot's estimation social mobility has declined sharply in the past 12 years.

Socail Fairness! What Social Fairness?

1,2,3....altogether now:....

# "Things...can only get better..." #

I find more and more that I agree with many Conservative party members who have concerns re George Osborne’s ability as the ideal Chancellor of the Exchequer.
I say this because I and other conservative party members are not convinced of his ability to get support from the grass root electorate, he comes over as somewhat immature and unsure of himself. I watched the performance of Phillip Hammond on BBC Question Time last Thursday evening. He has gravitas and is very knowledgeable on Treasury issues, he would I believe make a very creditable chancellor; he has presence, people pay attention and listen to him?
We need this type of person in such an important position both before the election campaign gets under way and hopefully in government.
I know George Osborne is a close friend of David Cameron but that should be the very last criteria for having the best man in this job.
I feel this is a weakness in the Conservative front bench that the other parties will exploit to the full.

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