Tory lead narrows slightly in new Populus poll - but Conservatives remain 12% ahead of Labour

The latest Populus poll for The Times puts the parties on the following percentages:

These figures would compute into a Conservative majority in the House of Commons of 46 seats according to the UK Polling Report Swing Calculator.

Populus interviewed a random sample of 1,504 adults between Friday and Sunday. The equivalent poll last month gave the Tories a 14% lead.

The poll included a question asking voting intention broken down by voters' type of employment:

"Conservative support is 38 per cent in the public sector, but 45 per cent in the private sector, while Labour’s rating is slightly lower in the public than the private sector, at 26 against 29 per cent. The difference is partly because the Liberal Democrats do much better in the public than the private sector, at 23 against 17 per cent, and employees of the state sector are more inclined to back other parties, notably the Greens. The Tories are ahead amongst NHS and local government workers, while support amongst teachers splits almost evenly between the three main parties."

Read Peter Riddell's analysis from The Times in full here.

Comments

[Jack Stone]

Surprised that the Tories are ahead among NHS workers. A bit like turkeys voting for christmas!

[Sally Roberts]

I am racking my brains trying to think why Labour would have gained 2 points in this latest poll! Can't be Brown's "historic" meeting with Obama - surely????

[Peter Buss]

Sally - I think its because Brown has had wall to wall coverage for 10 days now and David Cameron, most understandably has been off our TV's for nearly 2 weeks. Its as though Brown has had the field to himself. It is of couse Cameron who is our greatest asset with voters (although one would hardly think so from some of the comments posted on here from time to time - your very good and sensible self excluded !!) and so in that sense this is a good poll for us.

[Onthejob]

nothing to worry about here we are un changed and labour are within the margin of error

[Justin Hinchcliffe]

The comment by Jack Stone, above, proves he's not a Conservative!

[Sean Fear]

"The comment by Jack Stone, above, proves he's not a Conservative!"

Whoever thought he was?

[John Broughton]

I have to assume that Labour + 2 is within the sampling error. If not it must mean that some people think Gordon Brown is doing a good job - not something that anybody I meet has said, thought or even dreamt of!

[Malcolm Dunn]

An encouraging poll for the reasons Peter Buss mentions.Without Cameron we don't seem to get much coverage for our ideas,Labour are however stuck with just their core vote as they have been pretty much all year.
I didn't ever think despite his ocassional protestations that Jack was ever remotely a Conservative Justin.

[Oscar Miller]

PolitcalBetting are not impressed with the Brown mini mini bounce. It's in the margin of error and given all the grovelling press attention Brown received in America for his sycophantic speech it's a poor result for Labour and a good one for the Conservatives.

[Victor, NW Kent]

This poll shows that Tory support is firm at 43%. Of the 1504 voters a total of 3% or 45 have moved from other parties to Labour or Liberal - perhaps BNP, SNP in Labour's case; Greens to LibDems?

It is noteworthy that with EU elections looming there does not appear to be any drift from conservatives to UKIP.

Labour should certainly have gained some momentum as the day does not pass without some combination of Brown, Mandelson, Smith, Harman and Twigg appearing several times on TV.

Andrew Marr's Sunday programme was a Tory-free zone.

These things do affect floating voters.

The analysis shows that the Tories actually lead amongst public-sector employees by a small margin but a large one amongst those in the private sector and the one most likely to vote - the over-65's. That last group has seen quite a few Labour governments end in shattered sterling, strikes and increasing unemployment.

Many newly eligible voters have been brought up from age 8 or 9 entirely under a Labour government - it is, for them, the natural order of things.

[Oscar Miller]

I should of course have written "for his sycophantic speech in America" - I didn't want to give the impression the Americans are remotely interested in Gordon Brown.

[Richard]

I would say nothing to take from this poll,its within the margin of error,so there could quite possibly be no change.

Boris saying,give 750k ilegal immigrants amnesty.

The fact that i worry about even mentioning this,makes me ask a serious question,is our Party still the Conservative Party,or just New Labour?

We will win the next G/E,lets be honest though,people are voting against Labour,not for us.

[Cleethorpes Rock]

I think Labour's small increase can be put down to some "fringe recoil" as the BNP/chav voters return to their Labour home.

[Raj]

With Cameron off the TV and Brown's trip to Washington Tory support holding steady is a good thing (as well as a mere 2% increase for Labour).

[onthejob]

my only concern is that if DC is responsible for our lead in the polls what does that say about the rest of the shadow team! should they not raising there profiles as well.

[Jack Stone]

onthejob. What cabinet is that.Most people in the country think the Conservative Party is made up of one man.David Cameron.

[Super Blue]

Who else in the Shadow Cabinet?

Well, Jock Stale, they are named on here frequently and you could find a complete list on the Conservative Party website - then I remembered that you are not a Conservative!

[Mr Disgusted]

Really, what reason at all is there to vote Tory.

Cameron will only win by default of being less bad, marginally.

I have yet to meet any sane normal person who has even an opinion on him let alone be enthusiastic.

Keep up with the leftwing think tanks and amnesties and you might get what you deserve.

[haddock]

the most appalling hated government in living memory ( even among the aged ) a despised prime minister who is held to ridicule by people here and abroad...... and the conservatives happy at being 12% ahead !!

If only we had an opposition.

[DavidRHayes]

It is actually fairly surprising, generally speaking when we haven't been in the news much, we go down. Even the Lib Dems have had more coverage than us recently.

It seems the polls are starting to stabilise and this is probably as good as it'll get for Labour being that they got fairly positive coverage, unless there is some huge shakeup of monumental proportions the public won't listen to them.

We will still need to keep up announcements and eventually unveil a complete plan of action in 2010, with a full explaination on how everything will fit together (for us sad freaks that actually read them) and a summary for everyone else.

[Gloy Plopwell]

This prooves what I have been posting for months. The Lib dems are on course to over-take Labour very soon, and the Tories later this year. An overall Lib Dem majority is inevtitable at the next election, with stupendous momentum.

[RichardJ]

I suspect this slight increase in Labour support (if existent) may be due to an increase in Labour voters who say they will actually turn up and vote rather than a switch between parties.

In any case this is a good result for us for reasons given above.

[Conand]

Thanks for that Gloy. Meanwhile back in the four dimensional universe..
If true, the breakdown by 'type of employment' completely destroys Simon Heffer's thesis that there is no point encouraging public sector workers to vote Conservative.

On a more somber note. I have to say how sad I am to hear about the policeman who has been killed in Northern Ireland.

[Kevin]

Surely this poll is irrelevant. As President of the European Parliament, Hans-Gert Poettering recently boasted, 75% of the laws of all member states are made in the EU parliament and that with the Lisbon Treaty it will be 100%. So whichever of the main three parties you vote for you will end up with the same result bar a bit of tinkering on the sidelines.

David Cameron could kill the Lisbon Treaty stone dead if he promised a referendum on it regardless of any ratification which has been achieved without the promised referendum in this country. He chooses not to do that which tells you all you need to know. We are effectively a one party state consisting of a cross party conspiracy hellbent on handing sovereignty of our nation over to a bunch of unelected bureaucrats in the EU.

Good luck to UKIP and the BNP who are the only parties prepared to stand up to this betrayal of the electorate.

[Steve Tierney]

Somebody said:-
>>It is noteworthy that with EU elections looming there does not appear to be any drift from conservatives to UKIP.<<

I'm not sure that's 'noteworthy'. People who express their voting intentions are usually talking about a general election, rather than the Euro ones.

As I've said before, we need to be prepared for upset in the Euro elections. I'm not trying to sow seeds of dissent, I personally will be voting Tory in all elections, but I know plenty of Conservatives who say they will "protest vote" elsewhere in the Euros. Plenty. It's a worry.

I suspect most will go UKIP, but who knows? We could lose votes to any party which is clearly anti-Europe, and as we know there are some unsavory ones in that batch.

[Serf]

.....Surprised that the Tories are ahead among NHS workers. A bit like turkeys voting for christmas!......

Its only in Labour Party propaganda that health care workers are happy with Labour. Many of them seem to be extremely unhappy with the way in which their masters order them around.

No doubt plenty will be unhappy under a Conservative but to brand all NHS workers as unthinking Labour Drones is highly insulting to them.

[TomTom]

Surprised that the Tories are ahead among NHS workers. A bit like turkeys voting for christmas!

Posted by: Jack Stone | March 09, 2009 at 20:24

So you think those working in the NHS are "turkeys" do you Stone ? You are a condescending twerp...you make it sound as if they are a homogenous drone class. Just because people work in the NHS does not deny them the right to be Individuals with their own views and voting as they see fit.

In fact the NHS is the largest single employer of University Graduates in the country and they don't like the situation where Brown & Co boast of spending over £100 billion on health but they cannot see any money in the front-line services.

It is NHS employees who know that money is squandered and that simple diagnostic tests put people on 8 week waiting lists. People working inside the NHS are not proud of what it has turned into....nor for that matter are teachers proud of Education - yet in 1997 40% New Labour members were teachers

So stick to being a salesman Jack and stop being snotty and sneering about those who work in the NHS

[Jack Stone]

Tom Tom you really are rather silly. I think those working in the NHS are terrific and unlike many on this site I want to see more money spent on the health service not for it to be subjected to death by a thousand cuts.
I just do not believe that the majority of those working in the NHS will back the Conserrvatives because firstly they know that they will cut budgets and therefore there jobs will be at risk and secondly they know that the conservative party have never supported the NHS and have a secret agenda in the long term to see it broken up.

[Super Blue]

Conservatives did not cut frontline health budgets in the past and will not in the future - it is crystal clear. After all, Jock Stale ought to know more about the NHS with his "three serious illnesses", or were they a convenient invention?
My money is on psittacosis, schizophrenia and Munchausen's syndrome.

[Super Blue]

"conservative party have never supported the NHS and have a secret agenda in the long term to see it broken up." - Jock Stale.

Over eighteen years, spending was increased and the NHS was improved - a funny way of "not supporting it" and "wanting to break it up".

[Hawkeye]

Jack Stone said: "...they know that the conservative party have never supported the NHS and have a secret agenda in the long term to see it broken up."

Labour have already broken up the NHS into NHS Scotland, NHS Wales, NHS NI and NHS England. All offer different levels of care, different prescription regimes even different car park charges!

In England you have NHS Direct. In Scotland you have NHS 24.

There is no single NHS any more. Labour have started the breakup and the balkanisation of the NHS under Labour will result in the PCTs running the show for NHS Manchester, NHS Leeds, NHS Bristol, etc.

The breakup is well advanced Jack, and it has been Labour wot done it.

[David Belchamber]

"I just do not believe that the majority of those working in the NHS will back the Conserrvatives because firstly they know that they will cut budgets and therefore there jobs will be at risk".

Then how is it, Jack, that it is Labour that has cut the number of beds in NHS hospitals and outsourced services? Why do you run the possible risk of catching MRSA in an NHS hospital but not in a private one?

Under the conservatives, essential jobs throughout government will be ringfenced; only those people who Brown has taken on to carry out non-jobs have anything to fear.

[RichardJ]

I want it broken up.

[gnosis]

Jack Stone,don't let the sycophantic veiw of the cameroons stop you from having your say,i rarely come here now as it seems to be the same people on here everyday which is not what you could call a free and open debate,if you want to debate with real tories you should try some of the labour sites as they seem to let everyone debate and you don't get the sickening sight of loyal cameroons trying to crush your opinions.

[Justin Hinchcliffe]

Interesting to see Jack Stone launch a second attack on the Conservatives in one thread and that he doesn't try this time to refute that he isn't a Conservative. Foolishly, I used to think he was one of us.

[James]

"which is not what you could call a free and open debate,if you want to debate with real tories you should..."

I have seen no evidence that Jack Stone ever wants a free and open debate.

He never raises a serious question or poses an interesting point.

He just spouts meaningless twaddle that no-one is likely to agree with, in order to get a reaction.

Recent examples include:

"the conservative party have never supported the NHS and have a secret agenda in the long term to see it broken up."

"Surprised that the Tories are ahead among NHS workers. A bit like turkeys voting for christmas!"

"so you think its a good idea that our most vunerable children are put into institutions. Suppose you are also in favour of a return to making them clean chimneys!!!" (on the idea that children in care should have the opportunity to attend state-funded bording schools)

[Jack Stone]

The NHS as improved considerably in recent years. New hospitals, better and more comprehensive services. Lower waiting lists and quicker treatment.
Under the Conservative Party the ill were dying before they could get treated, hospitals were falling down around patients ears and nurses and doctors were leaving the service because of low pay and bad moral.
Anyone who thinks that the Conservative Party have ever improved the NHS is looking at the past through rose tinted glasses.
If Cameron wins he is going to have to cut spending and make hard choices. To maintain any sort of popularity he will be forced to cut taxes and it will be patients who will pay for those cuts by having there services cut.
I have no doubt that at the end of the first term of a Cameron government waiting lists will be longer, the present building programme in the NHS will be long gone and nurses and doctors will be paid less in real terms because they will have below inflation rises.
The NHS is about as likely to improve under a Cameron government as Brown is to say sorry!!!
As for Superbore your comments are beneath contempt. I just hope that you or any of those you love ever have what I have got because I wouldn`t wish it on anyone even a little contemptable bore like you.

[Paul]

As the husband of a nurse in one of the first PFI hospitals which is now feeling the effects, I'm not surprised the tories are ahead. Halving the number of nursing staff on wards is now normal.

[Sean Fear]

Jack Stone did at one point claim to be a member of the Conservative Party, but I'm glad he's dropped that silliness now.

[James]

"I have no doubt that at the end of the first term of a Cameron government waiting lists will be longer, the present building programme in the NHS will be long gone and nurses and doctors will be paid less in real terms because they will have below inflation rises." (Jack Stone)

Erm...if all this comes to pass, don't you think it will be because of Gordon Brown BANKRUPTING the country?

If Labour did somehow win the next election - doyou think he will have a magic money pit to continue to pour taxpayers money into dodgy NHS PFI schemes and above inflation pay rises?

I am genuinely curious to know what you mean?

That somehow the worst depression in 100 years will cause Cameron to have to cut Govt spending, but not Labour?

[Hawkeye]

Jack Stone said: "The NHS as improved considerably in recent years. New hospitals, better and more comprehensive services."

Considering the vast sums that were thrown at the NHS, it would have miraculous if some improvement had not turned up somewhere. If managed properly the same level of improvement could have been managed with much lower expenditure.

"Lower waiting lists and quicker treatment."

Have you actually been dealt with by the NHS recently? Quicker? My ar*e!! They have become immeasurably better at form filling, box ticking and making sure that how ever long you wait that they never tick the "on waiting list" box. My daughter has been waiting over 12 months for her treatment but she does not show up on the waiting list until they send a letter a few days before her appointment.

It is all games. Spin par excellence. Mutton dressed as lamb. All of New Labour's "achievements" are tainted with this sleight of hand misdirection and spin.

Only when we throw this foul and contemptible shower out will be be able to find out just how much was bluff, lies and sheer outright deception.

The whole d*mn lot deserve to go on trial for what they have done to this country and apologists going round simpering about what a bad time Labour are getting are doing the rest of us no favours at all.

[Justin Hinchcliffe]

COMMENT OVERWRITTEN.

[Geordie-Tory]

Jack Stone

Or is it ....Jack "Stone-the-Trolls" ??

[Sally Roberts]

I don't know what Justin put but why did he get overwritten when Jack Stone gets away with being personally rude about pretty much all of us, all the time?

[Sally Roberts]

"As for Superbore your comments are beneath contempt. I just hope that you or any of those you love ever have what I have got because I wouldn`t wish it on anyone even a little contemptable bore like you."

Jack Stone - your insults are getting increasingly predictable and very, very boring. Why don't you go and play on another website - or have they all banned you?

[Michael J Flexer]

I remember when young ...

A flagging government, having lost a strong, populist leader, staggering through a third term with no ideas and a nasty economic downturn, regular pilloried for its record in the NHS and education, facing a rejuvenated opposition after a decade in the wilderness, that had discarded some of its old, unpopular ideology and was consistently 12-15% ahead in the polls ...

But that opposition party discovered come election day, that it had not gone far enough. That it was still being dragged from the centre by its grassroots that were now a hinderance rather than a help. That the media still judged it by the chaos of its final days in government the last time round and that the extreme views of its early years in opposition continued to tarnish its reforming leader.

Best wishes in the rush for the centre ground. Some of you on this site will have to be left behind.

[Toryboy]

Jack Stone needs to learn how to troll well.

Gloy Plopwell is a good example.

[Sally Roberts]

Toryboy I agree! I love reading Gloy's posts - they show so much unbridled optimism that they invariably bring a smile to my face :-)

[Jack Stone]

Hawkeye. Have you? I have and the treatment as been quick and first class. In my experience those that attack the NHS are those that never use it.
As for Sally. Really if people make outrageous comments like Superbore did then he as got to be prepared to take it.
The trouble on this site is if you disagree you are either insulted or called a troll.
Know wonder the Conservative Party are sill unfit to govern this country with members like those that get on this site.
The Conservative party hasn`t changed one bit from what it was when it was booted out of office. The faces may have changed but the nasty party still hasn`t changed its spots this is why I am still convinced it will in the end lose the next election.

[Sally Roberts]

"The trouble on this site is if you disagree you are either insulted or called a troll."

Jack, there are ways of disagreeing without making oneself totally disagreeable! If you work hard you may eventually get there (but I'd concentrate on your spelling and grammar first if I were you...)

[Sean Fear]

I thought that what Justin Hinchcliffe said about Jack Stone was perfectly fair comment.

Personally, I consider Jack Stone to be stupid, rude, boring, and semi-literate. The sooner he leaves this site, the better.

[Malcolm Dunn]

Stupid being the operative word Sean. He gives trolling a bad name!Surely no self respecting troll could be this thick?
Can't say I could get too 'excrited' about Gloy Plopwell either. He /she simply repeated themselves ad nauseum.
For someone who often makes me smile have a look at 'Ave Its' posts over at Political Betting.

[Jack Stone]

Sally. Its a shame that you don`t answer the points made. You clearly don`t believe that the NHS would be better under a Cameron government than it is now.If you were you would have said I am sure.
Sean Fear. I am only rude to people who are rude to me. Secondly I think you are clearly a fully paid up member of the nasty wing of the party so its really pointless in making any further comment.

[TomTom]

they know that the conservative party have never supported the NHS and have a secret agenda in the long term to see it broken up.

Funny that but the NHS is derived from the Emergency Health Service set up during WWII and private hospitals were largely bankrupt by 1948. No other country followed the British centralised model and even the USA spends a higher proportion of GDP on taxpayer-funded healthcare than does Britain, but then again no G7b country is as badly resourced on specialist doctorss the UK or specialist services like physios and therapists.....something about the way it is run.

Frankly the NHS is a bit of a MASH - okay for emergency feld ops but lousy at basic elective healthcare and awful at cancer detection and treatment.

THere are whole areas of treatment unavailable to BRitish patients - like physiotherapy, or basic diagnostic investifgations, and cancer is usually detected too late

[Sally Roberts]

Jack I most certainly do support the NHS as most Conservatives do - especially David Cameron who, very sadly, has had to use it rather more than most of us have had to do! I thought it rather more important at that point in time to comment on your extremely rude behaviour and offensiveness to all and sundry. For the record I agree with Sean Fear 100%. You are tiresome and irritating and would be better off somewhere else.

[Justin Hinchcliffe]

I don't know of a single Conservative who doesn't support the NHS (hey, this could be today's quote of the day!) (-:

I quite enjoy Gloy Plopwell - his comments give me a good laugh and generally brighten up my day. At least there isn't anything nasty about him.

[polling well, aren't we?]

Majority of 46 in the middle of the worst recession since the early 80s. Well done, Cameron's Conservatives.

[oldrightie]

Really, what reason at all is there to vote Tory.

Jack Stone?

[pp]

Whether I support the NHS or not depends on what you mean by 'NHS'.

If you mean a basic level of medical care available to all citizens regardless of ability to pay, then I support it.

If you mean the wasteful, opaque, buerocratic, oganisation(s) that currently deliver tax-payer funded health care in the uk, then its probably fair to say that I don't.

Labour don't think much of it either - they believe it is broken and that they can't fix it - that is why they produced the nhs constitution, to make it easier for dissatisfied patients to complain in an effort to drive up standards. However the audit office had already reported that the NHS doesn't respond to patient complaints, so the government are also trying to improve the NHS's response to complaints.

However this is a circular argument, if the government could improve the NHS the complaints wouldn't be needed; but if the government can't improve the NHS then they will continue to ignore complaints and nothing will get better... Its a lose, lose situation for labour.

[gnosis]

Michael J Flexer | March 10, 2009 at 13:32
Thank christ i'm not the only one who can see the folly of this new improved centerist tory party...we should be on the right and not be ashamed to admit it.I fear that in the cold light of day at the next election our inflated figure of 42% will fall drastically when people realise we are not offering a real alternative but a slightly less left of centre opinion. I was never a big fan of george bush but he did have my respect for being himself and he wasn't scared to show it in front of the cameras.Our alternative is david cameron who is a "NICE BLOKE" and george osbourne who reminds me of one of those petty and spitefull little tykes at school who used to chase people with a bit of poop on a stick to see if he could get any to stick on your clothes.If this is the new improved conservative party then i would rather have my old one back please.I just thank my lucky stars that my local mp down here in north somerset is dr liam fox..a real conservative.

[Hawkeye]

Jack Stone said: "Hawkeye. Have you? I have and the treatment as been quick and first class. In my experience those that attack the NHS are those that never use it."

My daughter is under 18. As such I experience the NHS from what she goes through as she cannot attend on her own. Personally however, both my wife and myself would like to find a decent dentist or a doctor's surgery that actually opens at weekends. It would also help if the local surgery would sort out its lamentable appointments system.

"The trouble on this site is if you disagree you are either insulted or called a troll."

I suggest you nip over to some of the Labour sites who, when you disagree with them, will call you a racist, a nazi or a fascist. ConHome is mild in comparison.

If you do not like it here why post here? I don't post on LabourList. Guess why!

" I am still convinced it [the tories] will in the end lose the next election."

Not with Gordon leading labour. A banana with a blue rosette on it will poll better than Gordon's Labour party.

Look Jack - you may want Labour to win. You may deeply, passionately believe that socialism is the best path for humanity, but the fact of the matter is this - saying what you believe in over and over "don't make it so". Action is required, pragmatism is necessary, not dogma and belief in St Karl of Marx.

No matter how often you repeat the mantras, no matter how much you tell us that socialism is fair, balanced and right, no matter how many times you tell us that Labour has saved the country (and the world?), we can all see what a shambles things are. We can all see that we are losing jobs, losing houses and losing savings.

We are poorer now than we have been for years and it shows every prospect of getting worse. There is not a cat in hell's chance that we will re-elect the same in-fighting lemons that got us in to this mess.

Brown is finished and Labour will lose.

[Jack Stone]

Hawkeye. Any organisation as large as the NHS is will never be perfect. It will always have things it can do better but I use it on a regular basis and I have no complaints.
New services are regularly being added to hospitals and doctors surgery`s and there is a massive building programme going on that is improving many run down hospitals.
It seems to me that under difficult circumstances the health service is doing rather well.

[Comstock]

(remembers 1992 and keeps crossing his fingers)

[David Parker]

There have been a few informed and many more uninformed comments about Labour's contributions to the NHS, most of which relate to the financial investment, rather than the practical effects of this, in terms of the delivery of improved clinical care.
As, I think most NHS clinical(as opposed to managerial) staff would agree, the relentless persuit of target driven objectives is far more beneficial to the statistical image of the NHS than to the welfare of its individual patients, where five easy, routine procedures, clearly win more brownie points than one complex one. Similarly, the 18 week "pathway" has now become a bureaucratic skating rink, where ticking boxes within the correct time-scale often takes precedence over cases where "wait and watch" may be in the best interests of the individual patient.

Certainly, there can be no denying that Labour has hurled money at the NHS, however, as in so many of their enterprises, the question is not how much, as they never cease to boast, of OUR money this Government have spent, but just how badly they have spent that money, in almost every department of government.

To revert to the specific example of the NHS: During the heyday of the Blair spin doctrine, the Labour Government decided that "Patient and Public Involvement in Health" should become a political sacred cow. In 2000 they therefore announced the abolition of the former Community Health Councils, which were to be replaced with an all singing and dancing organisation, to be known as "The Commission For Patient and Public Involvement in Health". This new governmental "arms length body" took 3 years to create, established 193 new pensionable public service posts, with the objective of establishing over 520 "Patient Forums" related to every NHS Trust in England and was subsequently abolished, against the advice of the House of Commons Select Committee for Health, within 18 months of the formation of these "PPI Forums". As in the case of the abolition of the Community Health Councils, thw winding up of this organisation continued for a further 3 years, involving a re-employment of many permanent staff, whose previous contracts had been terminated. The total cost of this debacle has yet to be calculated, however, it will certainly exceed £250 million.When challenged, in a letter, with this figure, Patricia Hewitt, the then Disaster Manager in charge, replied that "In terms of the overall budget of the NHS, this was not an exceptional amount".

[Jack Stone]

David Parker. I don`t think there are many people who actually use the NHS believe that clinical care is as bad today as it was when the Tories were kicked out of office largely because they cut spending on public services like the NHS back to the bone.

[Super Blue]

"The trouble on this site is if you disagree you are either insulted or called a troll." - Jock Stale.

Perhaps we have all seen through you.

Furthermore, the last Conservative Government INCREASED Health spending, as you would know if you had learned to add up.

[Hawkeye]

Super Blue said: "Furthermore, the last Conservative Government INCREASED Health spending, as you would know if you had learned to add up."

Be reasonable. You don't seriously expect the lefties and socialists to admit that tories aren't evil swine who would kill all firstborn, dismantle the NHS and force the under 5s up chimneys with a large brush.

Remember that the second objective for the lefties is the establishment of the workers' paradise and socialist utopia. The first objective is to crush, grind and eradicate all opposition to socialism. They will never credit any conservative initiative no matter how worthy it is.

[snegchui]

Real term spending under the Tories went up considerably. I cannot understand why this lie persists.
Growth during 1979-97 was 3.1% pa. Since Labour came in the rate of increase is 6.2 pa but we have had a number of large re-organisations and the productivity figures are considerably lower. Labour have spent more but wasted even more.

[PaulyD]

I'm just really baffled by these polls. As an NHS worker I will be one of the minority 'turkeys' to vote for Christmas as every day of my working life I see the appalling fallout from the labour administration.

I really do think that people being questionned by the pollsters aren't telling the truth or that there's a mass delusional state.

It is incredible to read that some commentators still believe the conservatives are the nasty party. I can't think of what's more nasty than leaving whole generations in an astonishingly perilous state - from our young people who'll have to bear the burden of the financial bailout to the retired and about to retire who've had their pensions firstly stolen by Brown and now decimated by his failed policies.

Oh, and a quick note for Jack Stone, check out the guardian website - it's full of lefties who completely disagree with you - even they've had enough.

[pp]

Jack people who regularly use the NHS tend not to criticise it - for the same reason you don't complain about a waiter before all your dishes have arrived - a complaint may make things worse for you.

I very rarely have need of medical services - but my families experience would suggest that most 'in patients' treatments are of an unacceptable quality (that includes a late-grandfather with cancer, a late-uncle with cancer, a late-grandmother with terminal 'womens problems', a pregnant wife, and an infant son), to balance this I can think of about four occasions when treatment was acceptable. This across four different health authorities.

Were complaints made? yes. Did the complaints make any difference? how would I know?. What I do know is the ONS did a review and declared that complaints to the NHS did not improve the service - so I would guess not.

The NHS sucks, most people daren't complain but even those who do complain are effectively ignored.

Can I take my custom elsewhere? No because the NHS have already taken my money. It ain't good enough.

[John Prendergast]

This series of posts has been more about Jack Stone than the topic. I can tell you from personal experience NHS was poor during Calaghan years, had problems during Thatcher years was dangerous to me during mid Blair years and been no better in Brown years. It has undoubtedly got more expensive and has come up with PFI to hide over spend.
That said, I have never had any doubts that the vast majority of people who dealt with us in these family episodes were strongly dedicated to getting people better, were intelligent and often worked very long and hard.

The fact that many in the NHS supprt conservativs, speaks volumes about how Liebore has bungled things and choked the system with misapplied money.

[Super Blue]

Hawkeye: A very good point!

[A Reformed Labour Voter]

Still staggered that circa 30% support Brown.
But then look at the state of the UK. We get the Government that we deserve.

[pp]

Reformed Voter:-

http://torylogo.com/cache/1703090908_1550153308.jpg

Nuff said.

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