"The Eurosceptic way to voters' hearts should be through their wallets."

Drawing on research from the TaxPayers' Alliance, Roger Helmer MEP will be campaigning across his Euro region with this poster and message:

Good for Roger.  As much as some of us would wish it were otherwise, many voters aren't motivated by questions of lost sovereignty but might move towards a more Eurosceptic pattern of voting if they realise the practical costs of the current EU membership deal.

As Iain Martin wrote back in January: "The Eurosceptic way to voters' hearts should this time be through their wallets."

More on Roger's website.

Tim Montgomerie

Comments

[Iain]

May be not with a poster showing such a lovely back, lest people might be in favour of the EU removing a lot more shirts.

[Dan Beckham]

Will there be a version of the poster for lady and gay voters?

Otherwise love it!!!!!

[Anonymous Eurocrat]

Surely Roger could have found a girl without a tramp stamp?

[Matthew Dear]

Yes indeed - whilst I see the appeal he really ought to have gone with a hairy, sweaty builder (nothing against hairy sweaty builders of course, I just don't generally want to gaze at them.)

[Al]

Worth every penny if she would turn around...

[rugfish]

Is this the only poster or are there other versions?

Perhaps a frontal view could be useful too, if you can cope with the increase in traffic accidents?

[rugfish]

Are we still allowed to say "Cor Blimey" or has that been banned yet?

[rightyho]

Good Message, shame about the distracting picture which is what will get the most attention.

Speaking as a woman... this advertisement does nothing for me.

Must have been thought of by a bunch of men at a pub, forgetting that 50% of the electorate are female.

[Sally Roberts]

Couldn't we have a hunky fireman?

[Justin Hinchcliffe (Traitor For Being a Pro-European Conservative!)]

As a Conservative campaigner, (I am already working hard to get our London MEPs, headed by Charles Tannock, re-elected. Unlike Mr Helmer, I'll be focussing of the many positive aspects that membership of the EU brings to member states like Britain. Here's a recap of what they are:

Safer and Cheaper Flights

The EU has provided us with not only safer flights but also cheaper flights and increased competition between carriers registered in the Member States. Cheaper flights are the knock-on effect of a huge improvement in air traffic management and increased competition.

Student Exchange Programmes

Within the last 10 years the EU has created different education programmes in order to give students the possibility to experience different national cultures and broaden their personal horizon. Up to now 1.2 million students have benefited from the ERASMUS Programme and many more are expected to experience it in the future.

The Single Market

The Single Market is one of a kind as it guarantees ‘free movement' of people, goods, services and capital. At a practical level, it provides the possibility for EU citizens to live, work, study and do business throughout the EU, as well as enjoy a wide choice of competitively priced goods and services.

Protection of Intellectual Property

Intellectual property deals with two areas: industrial property and copyrights. Basically, it means that you are not allowed to use somebody else's ideas, for example, if your best friend has written lyrics to a song, you can not publish it in your name. The EU's efforts in this area have resulted in laws aiming at protecting company's or individual's knowledge.

Peace

Peace in Europe was first created when an alliance was made between Germany and France and the European Coal and Steel Community was founded. Europe has come along way since with a lasting peace amongst its Member States. International security is now a major issue for the EU: with increasing threats to a peaceful society in different areas of the world, the EU has put in place many policies to combat such problems.

The Euro

The single currency, the Euro, is now part of our everyday life but not all of its benefits are well known. From the practical advantages of travelling with a single currency, to the benefits of economic growth, to the strengthening of the EU international role and its political integration, the introduction of the euro has achieved much more than people expected.

Regional Funds

Unity and solidarity are some of the most significant aims for the EU. One important reason why the European regional policies have been created is because the EU is of the opinion that equal standards and rights should be provided to all citizens.

Cheaper and Better Phone calls

The liberalisation of the telecommunication markets in 1998 and the ongoing development in the field of technology have resulted in a steady decrease in prices within the EU. This means that it is cheaper to call your friends and family and choose between different operators.

Consumer Protection

NEW: Consumer protection and the safety of food in the European Union are two issues that have always gone hand in hand. The Health and Consumer Protection Directorate General's main responsibility is to provide laws and regulations on the safety of food and consumer rights.

A Healthier Europe

The public health issues dealt with by the EU are numerous and cover a number of different areas. They concern both men and women, young and old. The EU has also introduced the European health insurance card that is your guarantee if you should fall ill when going abroad.

Environmental Protection

In the EU, environmental issues including initiatives concerning protection have been underlined as some of the most important points not only for discussion but also for action. For instance, the EU is leading the "Kyoto" drive to reduce the air pollution that causes global warming.

Equal Opportunities - Against Discrimination

The promotion of equal opportunities and the fight against Discrimination are considered some of the most important issues within Europe and many directives have been put in place to combat inequalities that occur in the Member States. 2007 is officially the European Year of Equal Opportunities for All. Additionally the "Roadmap for equality between women and men 2006-2010" was launched outlining 6 priority areas for EU action on gender equality.

External Trade

External trade for Europe has always been very important to the success of the European Union. In recent years our level of trade has increased and we are continuing to grow as major players in the world of trade. Today, the EU accounts for 20% of global imports and exports and is now the world's biggest trader.

[Deborah]

There'a Diesel advert out there with a very similar picture. It is quite eye-catching.

[rugfish]

Couldn't we have a Muslim fireman just in case it offends anyone?

[Deborah]

Is Justin trying to say that those things represent value for the amount of money we pour into the EU and that none of it could or would have happened without the EU?
That would be an extraordinary claim.

[Serf]

......Couldn't we have a hunky fireman? .....

Or a Polish Plummer?

The message is the righ one for today.

However, I am not sure its the right image, although she does have a nice back.

[Mastiff]

All this seems to originate from YBF - which has a series of these pictures.

Roger is No.1 in East Midlands so will safely continue as MEP; does he think this will help Rupert Matthews, his excellent No.3? Or will it help UKIP? Getting Rupert elected should be his over-riding priority in the run-up till June.

[Edward Huxley]

No doubt Roger is using selections from "The Great European Rip-Off" by Mathew Elliott and David Craig.

Available from Random House website www.rbooks.co.uk/ripoff. But I warn you, it`s very depressing reading. Lots of waste, mismanagement and corruption. Endemic in the EU.

[Serf]

For Justin

Safer and Cheaper Flights
Could have been achieved with a open skies treaty. The EU has been dragging its heels over such a treaty with the USA.
Student Exchange Programmes
Why should the majority care. Erasmus is a programme to promote the EU
The Single Market
Not the same as free trade, brings a huge mass of regulation and stops free trade with non EU countries.
Protection of Intellectual Property
We didn’t have laws on that before? News to me. No doubt when China joins the EU, the real problem will be solved.
Peace
Without the EU the Belgians would no doubt have invaded Bulgaria. NATO and the cold war are irrelevant?
The Euro
Screwed Ireland and Spain by inflating the bubble, so led to a bigger bust. Is creating huge dislocations today because countries are not able to devalue.
Regional Funds
Taking our cash, spending half of it here, and demanding we be grateful for it.
Cheaper and Better Phone calls
We led the way in liberalisation, not the EU
Consumer Protection
Presumably before hand, we were all dying of food poisoning. Much of this regulation is just protectionism, and the rest we could have done ourselves anyway.
A Healthier Europe
EU restrictions on working hours led to a shortage of doctors in our hospitals.
Environmental Protection
You are joking right? The CFP has completely denuded our seas of fish. CAP has led to over use of fertiliser and loss of habitat. EU countries talk a great game on CO2, whilst subsidising coal miners.
Equal Opportunities - Against Discrimination
Feminist activism on a continental scale. Men cannot get a beter deal on life insurance despite dying earlier, women on car insurance despite being more careful drivers.
External Trade
They stop it. They screw the poorest in the world with agricultural tariffs.

The EU is essentially an anti freedom organisation. Unfortunately only the cost message will bear fruit though.

[John Wilkin]

It'll help the Conservative campaign. It will win votes for the Conservatives which sould otherwise have gone to UIP

[David_at_Home]

Safer and Cheaper Flights: Thanks to the plane makers and aero engine suppliers.

Student Exchange Programmes: See Jet scheme with Japan, Rhodes Scholarships, Commonwealth exchange etc. See also recent reports of non repayment of student loans by continental students

The Single Market: Restricts trade outside EU and the great bulk of our export go to the wider world.

Protection of Intellectual Property: EU is irrelevant.

Peace: Thanks to NATO!

The Euro: Now in trouble and we are not in it (thanks to God and UKIP!)

Regional Funds: For which we pay a great deal and get very little back.

Cheaper and Better Phone calls: Oh come off it. This is due to the evolving technology.

Consumer Protection: Try visiting a Romanian market! Or finding a Bulgarian doctor in A&E who, unlike a doctor fro the Commonwealth, does not have to pass any British medical exams.

Environmental Protection: Lots of uneconomic windmills providing unreliable intermittent power which will, if we are not careful, kill of what remains of out industry.

A Healthier Europe: Ever tried to use you E111? Always take out private heath insurance before going overseas. See above re Bulgarian doctor

Equal Opportunities: We should make our own laws here, or indeed, not do so. It is now virtually imposable for a woman of child bearing age to find employment in an SME.

External Trade: Our trade with non-EU Countries is severely restricted by the projectionist EU policies. The place for trade deals is the WTO.

Then there is the cost, both direct and indirect, the CAP, the CFP, the open door to immigration of more than 400M people, the impossibility of deporting criminals for other EU Countries and the loss of democracy.

[AlanofEngland]

For Justin....The facts:
By 2008 Britain will have made total contributions to the European Community (EC) Budget of £230.4 billion gross or almost £68.2 billion net.
By the end of the current EC budget period Britain will have made estimated total contributions to the EC Budget of £315.4 billion gross and £101.4 billion net.
By 2007 Britain had an accumulated trade deficit with the other EU member states of £383.7 billion.
The Common Agricultural Policy costs Britain at least £16.8 billion per annum.
The Common Fisheries Policy costs Britain at least £3.275 billion per annum.
Over-regulation on business costs Britain at least £28 billion per annum.
In 2008 membership of the European Union costs Britain almost £65.675 billion per annum gross or almost £55.775 billion per annum net.
GDP is £1,459 billion. Tax:GDP ratio is 36.8% (excluding Council Tax which is fixed). Therefore 2% more GDP would be approximately £10.73 billion more tax every year.
Source: 2008 Budget Report

£14.6 billion would enable the basic rate of income tax to be cut by 3.65 pence. It would alternatively enable the Personal Allowance to be increased by £2,703, so that you would earn £2,700 more than you currently do before paying tax - taking millions of lower paid workers out of charge.

The combined benefit of £10.73 billion more tax revenues and saving the £14.6 billion paid to the EU would enable the basic rate of income tax to be cut by 6.23p, or increase the personal allowance by £4,685.
Source for calculations: HMRC Ready Reckoner for 2007-08

Source The Bruges Group

[Rare Breed]

I love the fact that Justins post includes:

"Student Exchange programmes".

It even gets in second place.

I understand the national catastrophy that would unfold if we were no longer able to include an EU flag on our school trips. Imagine the loss of confidence to all the students who would no longer feel endorsed by the Commission.

It hardly bears thinking about - in fact I almost feel myself turning to the darkside of Europe.

What greater challenge of our times can there be than Student exchange programmes.

All hail Justin. Soon to be head of the new European Social inclusion and race relations in Student exchange programmes department.

[christina Speight]

Heaven help us - this is serious not a scoolboy's jokey chatroom!

The real point is that while agreeing with Roger's points they are completely irrelevant to the election though excellent propaganda for getting the albatross of the EU off our necks.

Until the Tory grasps the nettle of the EU we shall continue to decline as an independent nation and all the UKIP hoo-hah will not affect the vissue. It will the Tory party that one day will wake and do the deed and then make a treaty with the rest of the EU that we and they can live with. I hope Roger Helmer is around to see that day and help us to do it!

[Edward Huxley]

Christina says "It will be the Tory party that one day will wake.....". Only problem, how long are we going to have to wait? They haven`t managed to sort out a small thing like EPP membership yet.

[Rare Breed]

It is the tory policy on the EU that is the real Joke.

Speaking as a paid up mamber.

[Freeborn John]

Justin: Freddie Laker showed us that gave us in the 1970s. For most of my life it has been cheaper to fly from London to Los Angeles or Hong Kong than to Nice, so low fares are clearly possible without European political union.

Student Exchange Programe: you are talking about is a one-way street. It means British taxpayers pay for Contintal children to attend British universities at the same subsidised rate as our own children. We need our taxes to go improving skills here.

Regional funds: If we want to give money to Eastern Europe it would be more cost effective to send it direct rather than via Brussels where they skim part of it off to keep the burocrats in the lifestyles they have become accustomed to.

The Single Market existed before the European Union was created in 1992 by the Maastricht Treaty and is open to EEA members like Norway and Switzerland. You do not have to dacrfice your democracy to be part of the single market.

Intellectual Property: There are many countries around the world (USA, India, etc.) that provide legal protection for IP without them being part of the EU.

Peace: NATO has kept the peace in Europe.

The Euro: The single currency and its one-size-fits-all interest rate is the main reason there has been an unprecdendented property boom and bust in Ireland, Spain and numerous other countries. The UK recession would be far more severe if we had not be wise enough to stay clear of the Euro.

Phone Calls: the price of phone calls has been falling for more than 100 years and no faster in Europe than anywhere else on Earth.

External trade: The WTO trade round would have been more successful had the UK been able to oppose the protectionist EU agricultural lobby openly and argue instead for reductions in the tarrifs that others apply on our exported services and industrial goods. Even with a British EU trade commisioner we ended up negotiating against our interest.

Charles Tannock: Every time he writes a word here he positively makes my skin crawl. He will undoubtedly be a vote loser in June.

[asquith]

No actual evidence that this woman is attractive. She could be really ugly from the front.

There are ways around that, but I suppose staid & upright Tories wouldn't want to hear about them :)

[Michael Heaver]

Some great reasons to vote for UKIP right there. After all, you Tories are for paying all of those sums, as well as pro-membership even if the Lisbon Treaty comes into effect.

[Norm Brainer]

Speaking as a woman... this advertisement does nothing for me.

How is being a woman of relevance to if it does something for you? ...It's not advertising sexy backs, you know, and most people can see that and aren't distracted unless you are (or are a man pretending to be) a feminist who get blinded by rage at certain things they've been told to by their chosen sect.

Whoever said it's not an advert aimed at women or gay people forgot the gay women or the posibility that it's a transvestite (would help if we could see sideboob but I think it's been airbrushed.), or like most women those that aren't gay but can appreciate the beauty in the female form.

Anyway, on to the message - isn't that an advert for UKIP?

[Jack Stone]

Typical Tory poster all about money. The Tory party haven`t really change at all. They judge everything in terms of money nothing else.
The European Union brings counties who have fought one another time and time again together in a spirit of cooperation. It allows us to work together to protect the environment. It breaks down borders and barriers between people.
Winston Churchill believed in the European Union because he wanted to see an end to conflict and wars in Europe which it as helped bring about.
Its a shame that present day conservatives are so shallow they believe at the end of the day everything comes down to money. Pathetic!!!

[rugfish]

No actual evidence that this woman is attractive. She could be really ugly from the front.

There are ways around that, but I suppose staid & upright Tories wouldn't want to hear about them :)

Posted by: asquith | March 11, 2009 at 16:07

Yes, but surely you are being somewhat presumptive are you not asquith?

lol

[Yet Another Anon]

If it said Better Off Out on the poster at the bottom underlined and with an exclamation mark then it would match the sentiments, however as the stated Conservative position on the EU remains a desperate defence of remaining in the EU on the grounds that somehow enough Member States are going to persuaded to agree to even the meagre reform proposals proposed by David Cameron without the ratchet extensions of powers that has happened under every government for 40 years, the phrase Gluttons for Punishment springs to mind.

[Jack Stone]

Typical Tory poster all about money. The Tory party haven`t really change at all. They judge everything in terms of money nothing else.
The European Union brings counties who have fought one another time and time again together in a spirit of cooperation. It allows us to work together to protect the environment. It breaks down borders and barriers between people.
Winston Churchill believed in the European Union because he wanted to see an end to conflict and wars in Europe which it as helped bring about.
Its a shame that present day conservatives are so shallow they believe at the end of the day everything comes down to money. Pathetic!!!

[Deborah]

"The European Union brings counties who have fought one another time and time again together in a spirit of cooperation."

Like hell it does. It sticks Hertfordshire in with Norfolk and expects them to come up with common policies so they tick the boxes and come up with a "regional" plan which is full of buzzwords but no use to anyone.

[Richard Calhoun]

Justin Hinchcliffe (Traitor For Being a Pro-European Conservative!) | March 11, 2009 at 15:01

We do not need the EU and all its corrupt ways to achieve many of the benefits that you list.

We just need to turn it into a Free Trade area, that is what will happen in the next very few years, except we might find that it is a trade area without the 'free '

[David Galea]

Money controls a lot of things and we want our control back.

[Walshon]

"Typical Tory poster all about money. The Tory party haven`t really change at all. They judge everything in terms of money nothing else.
The European Union brings counties who have fought one another time and time again together in a spirit of cooperation. It allows us to work together to protect the environment. It breaks down borders and barriers between people.
Winston Churchill believed in the European Union because he wanted to see an end to conflict and wars in Europe which it as helped bring about.
Its a shame that present day conservatives are so shallow they believe at the end of the day everything comes down to money. Pathetic!!!"

Jack do you know what is really pathetic? People who don't do their history but then go on to comment upon it as an authority.

Churchill's speech in 1946 at the University of Zurich he said:

"In all this urgent work, France and Germany must take the lead together. Great Britain, the British Commonwealth of Nations, mighty America and I trust Soviet Russia-for then indeed all would be well-must be the friends and sponsors of the new Europe and must champion its right to live and shine."

Does that sound like "we must join and undermine all democratic values that we have fought for" to you?

Do your history before you post your nonsense.

[Roger Helmer]

I thought of rebutting Justin point-by-point. But others have done so, and his points are so silly and partisan that they hardly require a response. Jack Stone says it's a typical Tory poster all about money. Jack, have you noticed that there's a recession, and people are worried about money? So should I, as a politician, talk about things that concern people, or not? Someone asked if I had thought about the effect on the #3 on our East Midlands list, Rupert Matthews. Not only thought about him, but talked to him. Getting a third seat in the East Midlands is my key priority, and Rupert and I both take a sceptical view of the EU.

[JS]

Perhaps the poster should also add that membership stops us becoming even more a vassal nation of the United States,that the Union has brought a lasting peace within Europe after the terrors of 1918 and 1939, that the alternative is for the UK to become an insignificant off-shore island who nobody will care about - let alone trade with. Perhaps it should also say that the joy of not being in the Euro is to have a currency which nobody wants and is currently collapsing through the floor. What hypercrits the anti-EU Tories are - they secretly take all the benefits while biting the hand that feeds them. If they detest the European ideal and Parliament so much why are they all so anxious to get elected to it? Taken to their logical conclusion no doubt they would reinstate the various small kingdoms like Wessex or East Anglia of ancient times, strutting around talking misty eyed of some mythical lost sovereignty and have us just dressed in woad. The world has moved on. It is high time they entered the 21st century and realised that a strong, united and independent European Union is essential and an exciting body of which to a part and to help manage. What pathetic defeatists they are.

[Robert Eve]

Dan Beckham at 14:23

Do gays get a vote?

[Lindsay Jenkins]

Roger, speaking as a woman, I just love it!

[John Broughton]

Justin

How can it be that anybody who believes in Conservatism be happy to give away their governance to a (largely) unelected bunch of second rate politicos in a foreign land most of whose agenda is socialist in nature?

[ukipwebmaster]

As usual the Tories are playing catch up:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKpFH9hLO7I

This is a classic example of something the Conservatives are just not signed up to but they still rely on the figleaf of a few so-called Eurosceptics to keep the grass roots happy.

How can they publish something like this and keep a straight face?

[Tommy]

I love the argument that wothout the shakles of the european union to somehow constrain them, the germans would be goose-stepping into versaille.

[ukipwebmaster]

The last line is missing:
And the Conservatives want to stay in the E.U.!

[S Richmond]

I thought it was a poster about eating disorders.

[Felix Bungay]

@ Justin Hinchcliffe: Its people like you who drive good Europe sceptic Conservatives like myself and many others to vote UKIP. I would like the Conservatives to move us out of Europe should the political assimilation of power to Brussels grow still further.

[John Wilkin]

@JS

Are you suggesting that only federalists should be eligible to stand for the European Parliament? And if you're going to call someone a hypocrite please learn to spell the word.

[Dorothy Wilson]

Justin

However old you are you really do need to grow up. Most of the points you make have been well and truly rebutted. However, let me comment on one that really gets my goat: that European peace was established with the European Coal & Steel Agreement. No it wasn't. It was established by the sacrifices of the Allies, and particularly their armed forces, in WWII. It was then helped along by the aid given by the Americans under the Marshall Plan.

After that the threat to peace came from a different direction: the Soviet Union. That threat was held at bay by NATO, financed largely by the Americans and the British.

Basically, rather than the EU and its predecessors establishing peace in Europe the opposite is the case. The EU has been able to develop because there has been peace in Europe.

So, as well as growing up it would seem you need to learn some history.

As for student exchanges, well I have been priviledged to serve as European President of the alumni group of an international exchange programme. We have just celebrated the 60th anniversary of our programme and last year held the 50th conference of our European Association. That association has been kept going by the voluntary efforts of our members and owes absolutely nothing to the EU.

As for Mr Helmer's efforts, I have supported them by letters to my local newspaper here in the E Midlands and say all power to his elbow.

[Dorothy Wilson]

Justin

However old you are you really do need to grow up. Most of the points you make have been well and truly rebutted. However, let me comment on one that really gets my goat: that European peace was established with the European Coal & Steel Agreement. No it wasn't. It was established by the sacrifices of the Allies, and particularly their armed forces, in WWII. It was then helped along by the aid given by the Americans under the Marshall Plan.

After that the threat to peace came from a different direction: the Soviet Union. That threat was held at bay by NATO, financed largely by the Americans and the British.

Basically, rather than the EU and its predecessors establishing peace in Europe the opposite is the case. The EU has been able to develop because there has been peace in Europe.

So, as well as growing up it would seem you need to learn some history.

As for student exchanges, well I have been priviledged to serve as European President of the alumni group of an international exchange programme. We have just celebrated the 60th anniversary of our programme and last year held the 50th conference of our European Association. That association has been kept going by the voluntary efforts of our members and owes absolutely nothing to the EU.

As for Mr Helmer's efforts, I have supported them by letters to my local newspaper here in the E Midlands and say all power to his elbow.

[Jack Stone]

Justin you really are fighting a losing battle with these obsessives. They hate Europe more than Margaret Thatcher hated socialism. These little Englanders would ruin this country if they got its way and turn into nothing more or significant than Hawaii if they got there way.

[Julian White]

I really don't like this, and I wouldn't vote Conservative if this sort of poster was used widely.

IMO what people really want is to see the positive side of the EU and what can be achieved. The Conservatives should then highlight what they have done towards making the institutions better regulated for example, or how Conservative MEPs have used their positions in the European Parliament to help local businesses.

This constant negativity leads, in my view, to another 2001 General Election situation, where the votes drain away.

In the end, my view is that voters are more impressed with a party which says "we are confident our nation is the strongest in Europe, and this is how we want the EU to develop. We see this as an opportunity not a threat", than "let's leave the EU because it's nasty and unfair and our culture is so weak that we think it can be so easily destroyed".

[Justin Hinchcliffe]

Totally agree, Julian.

The funny thing is that even if Cameron said we would withdraw from Europe itself, these obsessive Little-Englanders would still not be happy!

[Julian White]

Justin, I agree.

I personally despair at the amount of Conservatives who seem to feel that this nation should feel so threatened by the European Union. Whilst we're worrying about the threat, other nations are seeing the advantages, the opportunities and showing their true strength.

Cameron in my view should see this country as the "best" in Europe. I see no reason why this nation can't seize every opportunity, but yet the party might consider putting out posters saying "the EU might shut our post offices".

I hope that David Cameron does the right thing and ends this negative nonsense and starts to fight for our nation in the European Union and start believing in this country again.

[John Broughton]

Justin

You clearly have no cogent argument to offer when you resort to calling people "little englanders."

I ask you again to explain how giving over this country's governance to an unelected second rate bunch of commissars in Brussels is consistent with UK Conservatism.

[RichardJ]

"The funny thing is that even if Cameron said we would withdraw from Europe itself, these obsessive Little-Englanders would still not be happy!"

Rather than throwing insults around it would be more helpful to your cause if you were to rebut the above responses to your arguments.

[Steve Tierney]

Michael Heaver:-
>>Some great reasons to vote for UKIP right there. After all, you Tories are for paying all of those sums, as well as pro-membership even if the Lisbon Treaty comes into effect.<<

Michael, with due respect as I have a lot of time for you generally, its not correct or helpful to say: "You Tories" in this way.

As you can no doubt see by reading these boards, plenty of Tories have sympathy for your view. The fact that we are prepared to work in the long term to achieve it, while being members of and voting for a party which can actually win an election, doesn't detract from that.

Our current leadership are pretty damn good in my opinion. I personally wish they were tougher on Europe, as do many others I suspect, but I'll live with the "softly softly" approach because there are other vital issues too and I can be patient.

You might also presume that at least *some* activists on this list, if not many, will go on to become more influential in the party and that when they do, they'll take their obvious views with them.

To be honest I think this problem is "self-solving". My reading of the country "mood" is that Europe is looking less and less of a good idea. Worries about immigration continue to grow. When the financial crisis turns down again these murmurs will become very loud indeed. I suspect parties will ride public opinion across the board if they want to avoid the ballot box consequences.

Please don't get me wrong. I'm not a UKIP-hater. I think you're doing a necessary job, actually. But I can't help but think your talents would be better used as Conservatives. If the UKIP membership joined us en masse, their influence would make a significant difference I think,

[Julian White]

Steve, the Conservative Party has tried tough on the EU, we had the leaderships of William Hague and Iain Duncan-Smith. The voters weren't convinced.

Indeed, both Thatcher and Duncan-Smith lost the support of their MPs when their policies on the European situation started to unravel. Both had confused directions on the European issue, and it certainly didn't help in gaining votes.

The Conservative Party IMO will not change its position now, and indeed, will become more sensible and coherent on this nation's future role in the European Union. We cannot keep fearing something when the majority of other countries are taking a lead on behalf of their nations.

Wanting UKIP members back in the party is like saying that "old Labour" members should have rejoined "new Labour". It didn't happen, the extremes of their party helped keep them out of office, just like the extremes of this party have done in recent years.

The average person in the street might express dislike of the European Union, but if the party starts to take what is seen as an extreme view (such as leaving the EU) then IMO the Conservatives will lose millions of votes from the centre. Indeed, that is why the leadership are so careful in their comments.

It is now time for our leader to stand up and say that he believes in this nation, he believes in our membership and he wants us to take in a lead in the business of the European Union. That is what our economy needs, not isolation. It's what John Major stood for, and I'm personally delighted that the Conservative leadership (if not with the party behind them at times) have taken Major's view and not followed Hague or Duncan-Smith.

[ChrisD]

"Speaking as a woman... this advertisement does nothing for me.

Must have been thought of by a bunch of men at a pub, forgetting that 50% of the electorate are female."

Totally agree, it just plays to the very old fashioned chauvinistic caricature of some in the party.
And I say that as someone who loves Only an Excuse, a comedy that is built entirely around sending up its fellow Scots when it comes to our national team and its many fans. It reaches out and tickles both male and females in equal measure.

[Yet Another Anon]

In the end, my view is that voters are more impressed with a party which says
I think they are most impressed with parties where the conclusion matches the analysis - the conclusion that despite the EU being terrible that the solution is to remain in it does not go down well, and rightly so because it is if anything worse than those who want to remain in and think it is great, at least they have a reason to stay in.

To say that the EU is terrible and that the solution is to leave it or to deliver terms which if not accepted will result in the UK withdrawing and then to carry out what has been decided is the positive thing to do.

[Serf]

......Indeed, both Thatcher and Duncan-Smith lost the support of their MPs when their policies on the European situation started to unravel......

That may be true, but the reason they lost support of the voters was unconnected to the EU.

.....I personally despair at the amount of Conservatives who seem to feel that this nation should feel so threatened by the European Union. Whilst we're worrying about the threat, other nations are seeing the advantages, the opportunities and showing their true strength.......

That has to be one of the most vacuous comments I have ever read here. How can the complete emasculation of our democratic institutions not represent a threat? Other nations may well be seeing the advantages, but that would be the advantages that we are paying for.

[Roger Helmer]

Jack: I am a passionate supporter of free trade and internationalism. I spent thirty years in international trade, and lived and worked overseas for many years. If you really think that eurosceptics are "Little Englanders", you haven't started to understand the issue. As the Norwegian NO Campaign put it, "Europe is too small for us".

[Tapestry]

How many of the 2.5 million people who left Britain since 1997 are europhile? Most emigrate out of Europe and go to more free political environments, and faster-growing economies.

The small-minded stay at home and try to imagine they are living in a safe bloc with high walls keeping out those of lesser standing than cultured europeans.

The problem is that the rest of the world won't wait for bankrupt and sclerotic Europe. Portugal, Ireland, Italy, Spain , Greece the PIIGS are already bust. Britain is not far behind.

It might be OK to be a little englander if little england had any money left, but it hasn't. the eu has made sure of that. britain should out of europe and out in the world.

[Geoff Middleton]

Surely Roger could have found a girl without a tramp stamp?

Must agree with this.
She looks like a streetwalker.

[Hannibal]

Several of you are asking whether there is a female or gay orientated version of the poster. Well if you go back to the source, the Young Britons' Foundation, you'll see there is.

Here you are.

[Super Blue]

Typical Jock Stale nonsense. I take it he hasn't heard of NATO? Then again, spelling "countries" as "counties" was a gaffe comparable to calling Boris an Italian goalkeeper!

Draper, you must teach your trolls to spell better.

PS The European Union needs some serious constructive reform.

[resident leftie]

I'm confused. I thought Roger Helmer was a Tory MEP, but it appears from this poster that he is member of UKIP. Tory policy is supposedly postitive engagement with the EU, whereas this poster suggests we should leave. But, it's got it figures from the Taxpayers Alliance, and they are utterly wrong. Just for starters, it's the net contribution which is important, not the gross, but of course this isn't made clear.

[Edward Huxley]

Resident leftie, I can assure you that Roger Helmer is not a member of UKIP although some of his views are similar to ours. I have never met him, but admire him- not afraid to speak out for what he believes in. I suppose the fact that he is Hon. Chairman of The Freedom Association and supports Better Off Out makes him unpopular with the lefties of this world and some Tories.

Anyway, log on to Roger Helmer MEP, you might find it interesting, including his excellent "electronic newsletter."

[Dorothy Wilson]

"The funny thing is that even if Cameron said we would withdraw from Europe itself, these obsessive Little-Englanders would still not be happy!"

What is it about the apologists for the EU that makes them resort to name-calling? For the record, I have put a great deal of effort into developing international, and specifically European, understanding. I have served as European President of an international association, a position I was elected to by my peers from across the continent. My record was acknowledged at an international meeting last summer, held in Switzerland as it happens.

However, I am a profound EU-sceptic so in your view I am a "little Englander". Perhaps you will justify that statement.

The we have the comment on another post "my view is that voters are more impressed with a party which says 'we are confident our nation is the strongest in Europe, and this is how we want the EU to develop'". Really? The results of opinion polls asking voters' views on the EU would suggest something different. Almost invariably those results show that two thirds either want a looser arrangement with the EU or to leave altogether.

As someone on one of the BBC blogs pointed out the EU is a concept rooted in the ideas of the 1950s. It is not fit for purpose in the 21st century. It needs to be subject to a Business Process Re-engineering exercise. You don't start with what you have got and try to improve it. You start with a blank sheet of paper and ask what is needed to suit the conditions of today. Everything else is then discarded.

And people should stop referring to the EU as "Europe". They are not one and the same.

[resident leftie]

I think it's about time the Editor put the simple in/out question about the EU to ConHome readers. He has studiously avoided it in previous questionnaires. I suspect that only a small proportion of Tories want to leave the EU.

[David_at_Home]

Personally, I am fed up with being called a “Little Englander”. I am half Scottish, I have been married to a foreign born wife for half of my entire life, I have travelled widely and I am completely in favour of the UK expanding its world wide trade. That, and the fundamentally undemocratic nature of government from Brussels, is why I wish our country to leave the EU.

As with climate change, the EU enthusiasts never seem to engage in rational discussion but rather revert to personal insult.

[Justin Hinchcliffe]

D-A-H. Why do you bother posting here? Now shoo!

[David_at_Home]

Maybe it amuses me to irritate you, Justin, by picking holes in your juvenile posts justifying the political EU.

I could make a better case for the EU myself, were I minded so to do.

[Derek Bennett]

the Pro-EU comments made by self confessed traitor,Justin Hinchcliffe, prove the point that the Conservative Party is still very much split on the serious EU problem and cannot be trusted on this most vital issue.

Use the link to my blog to read about a letter from the office of David Cameron that not only clearly states he has no intention of saving us from the EU, but is actually deceitful in the way the Conservative Party is trying to make people believe a Tory Government would hold referendums on any further EU treaties once Lisbon is fully ratified and implemented. The fact is the Lisbon Treaty will be the last treaty as it gives the EU the power to make all future amendments itself -there will be no more treaties so why is Cameron trying to mislead people into thinking he can change things?

The only safe vote on the 4th June is a vote for UKIP - a vote for the Conservative Party is a wasted vote.

[rugfish]

Europe isn't going to disappear and nor is the UK if we determine to leave it to regain our independence to act and trade globally. The people who want us kept in a shriveled nest of vipers are deluding themselves when making remarks of "Little Englanders" for it is THEY who are seeking to remain closeted within a little EU single market which places us at a disadvantage when trading globally.

Those little euro-puddlians need to get into the ocean out there instead of their itsy bitsy little pond.

As I say, we will be 'advantaged' by it.
Further, we would not be the last to do it.
Further, I never voted for it and I don't want my country ran by anyone who I do not vote for.

Let the people decide if they want MORE out of life in our 'wonderful' global economy, or whether they are happy to stick in the mud in Europe.

EFTA is the way forward for all.

[Tommy]

"Personally, I am fed up with being called a “Little Englander”. I am half Scottish, I have been married to a foreign born wife for half of my entire life, I have travelled widely and I am completely in favour of the UK expanding its world wide trade. That, and the fundamentally undemocratic nature of government from Brussels, is why I wish our country to leave the EU."

I'm scottish, born to irish parents and I currently study in kyoto, and yet I'm a little englander too.

[David_at_Home]

".. I currently study in kyoto"

Beautiful city, or at least the old part is.

Many Japanese I have met find it incompressible we have allowed ourselves to be ruled from Brussels. Are they "little Englanders" as well?

[Malcolm Dunn]

I never agree with Justin Hinchcliffe on the EU and we've had several bad tempered run ins in the past but to call him a traitor as Derek Bennett does simply gives EUscepticism a bad name. He's not a traitor Derek, he simply disagrees with you. Should we call you a 'swivel eyed frothing mouthed loony'? Because you sure as hell sound like one.

[Ross Warren]

Eye catching poster, although I dislike "tramp stamps" it sparks your attention. Of course I am a male heterosexual and would imagine that many females would be less impressed by this crotch grabbing advert. I did eventually read the advert and its message is a good sensible one. I wonder what she looks like from the front? was the main question this addy raised (oh my) for me. So I have mixed feelings about us descending to the Freudian gutter in this way, but she does have a very attractive back.

[Janet]

Yes, most of our money going to the (unmandated)EU is wasted especially on the greedy officials and other corruption. Are the Conservatives actually going do something as well as just pointing it out? We all know that we are outvoted in the EU and can't really achieve anything except enabling our 'World Leaders' to get together and pretend that they are important players. The many petty stupid laws that are decreed from Europe are just there to justify their existence. Lets keep all our payments that we give to the EU and use it for our poor and deserving people. Tell the greedy pigs of officials to go off into the sunset with their fantastic pay-offs and shut the enormous white elephant down. It will happen in the end so why not bring that time forward. I think UKIP will do very well in the MEP elections take a page out of their book.

[Yarmouth Tory]

If it generates discussion and its eye catching then its a good advert!!!

Great to have a thread discussing the euro elections. Where is the best place to get information about the euro elections? ie candidates, constituencies, swings required etc.

Ukpollingreport is great for the UK General elections but cant find much for the euros!

[just a european reading UK press and UK blogs ;)]

Hi everybody. I'm a conservative my self too, but I'm not British so I leaning towards pro-eu way of thinking.

The truth is, eu membership tends to benefit more the poorest countries than the rich ones like UK. So under the narrow perspective of "best interest", I think it's better for the UK to get out of the eu. It's sad, nevertheless it's better that way. It's not the end of the world, nor for the rest of us willing to integrate more inside the eu, neither for the UK. I guess, business will go on as usual. In any case you will be happy and we get rid of this constant whining :)

Vote UKIP guys at your national elections and hopefully they will take you out in a blink of an eye. we will certainly remain good friends.

P.S. "best interest" for some people is "dog eat dog"?

[just a european reading UK press and UK blogs ;)]

.. the funny thing is that UK could be the leader of the eu by now, and London could be the de facto capital, if only the Britons had a little bit more positive attitude. Weird..