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It's an inevitable consequence of the mismanagement of the economy of the last ten years and the equally spinless response by the Tories in holding the Government to account and campaigning hard on ensuring the public finances were better managed. The taxpayer is stuffed for the political incompetency of all politicians.

All politicians worry that they are held in contempt and wonder why.

Lack of courage is why, the need to always be popular, all the time

Just think what an overwhelming position we would now be in, morally and strategically, if over the last three wasted years of 'sharing the proceeds of growth' we had been predicting this scenario, warning it would lead to disaster and staying true to our instincts.

Our Party would now be seen as a party of integrity and foresight rather than just a tool to remove a hated PM and Government.

A massive wasted opportunity, which was seen by so many people on here but ignored by the suits with degree's in marketing but no feel for politics.

Nick Robinson is absolutely correct, there is no alternative to cutting public spending.

The Conservative party could have led on this, showing a courage and honesty that would have been recognised by the electorate. But honesty and courage have given way to narrow political calculation and the electorate perceives this deviousness. That is why the party is only enjoying a friable and unconvincing lead in the Polls.
It is not too late but will Gideon Osborne summon up the strength of will to propose cuts? I would like to think so, but I fear not.

Of course Cameron's failure to explain this clearly and often in Opposition will come back to bite him when he is forced to cut spending.

"We'll spend more but a little less than Labour plan to" will soon be in the dustbin with "sharing the proceeds of growth".

Dispatches on C4 had an excellent programme a couple of nights ago on the billions squandered by this government.

There is a alternative to spending cuts that is tax increases.
Lets increase taxes on the rich and get rid of all there perks before we start cutting spending which will inevitably hit those most in need.

It's a pity it's taken a recession to force us to do this.

Don't bother responding to Jack Stone's provocative comment, he is our local troll.

Jock Stale is esxposed in his true colours - hard left, wanting to tax mythical rich people and just hoping that none of them (or their money) are moved abroad.

This country has suffered twelve years of continual tax increases and they have been a significant cause of this depression. As soon as is practical, axation must be reduced; however waste must be reduced the Monday after the general election and taxes simplified almost immediately.

"There is a alternative to spending cuts that is tax increases.
Lets increase taxes on the rich and get rid of all there perks before we start cutting spending which will inevitably hit those most in need."

ConHome would be a very boring place without you.

It will not be enough to just cut spending, we are going to have to dismantle the benefits and welfare systems back to the bare basics

In the event no one has noticed the 'rich' countries ( ie. not in debt ) are in the East now and that is where the power resides.

We will only be able to compete when we are on the same cost base now.

What's the problem?

If the government is running short of money, it can always order the Bank of England to print some more.

The so-called "opposition" wouldn't object to that - well, they haven't so far.

So Superbore you would prefer spending cuts that will hit those most in the need. Doesn`t surprise me at all.
So you don`t think its wrong that some millionaires in this country pay less tax than there cleaners. You don`t think its wrong that some Russian billionaires live in luxury in this country and pay no taxes.
You would rather see the old and the sick and the needy hit than make millionaires pay there fair share.
Says it all about the Tory Party doesn`t it!!!

So Nick Robinson has just worked out we're all being shafted by politicians. Welcome to reality Nick! You'll love it here.

Anyone with a bit of gumption knows we don't want to come across as the nasty cost cutting party, and anyone with sense would know Labour wouldn't do one more thing to upset their chances before election day.

Their sky is blue and ours is green if they do it right.

But that's not really good for politics either way because either party on gaining power will have conned their way into government and will spend the next 5 to 10 years picking the pockets of taxpayers.

Not fair I think!

I think it would be fairer to say - we WILL make you pay for Labour's mistakes - We will spread it out so it doesn't hurt, but in all honesty, 'as everyone knows bar Labour'...spending money like water means someone has to pay.

Personally, I'd like to see a 20 year repayment plan in a manifesto.

In the next election in 2014/15, the public will be faced with a party which has a) been honest, and b) In steady progress with its 20 year plan which has another 3 parliaments to run.

Who would they vote for?

Labour: 'You first!'
Conservatives: 'No, no, after you...'

We're lucky to have such polite politicians!

Reality is not a strong point of Labour. Delusion and dreams coupled with ideas of grandeur and a Utopian world of spend, spend spend. Ooops, sorry, invest.
Well where has all the money gone? DC is a much greater man than any of you wimps give him credit for. Already Browbama is wittering the mantra Tory cuts. Better than Labour bust, I say.

Let's hit the waste identified by the TPA (and backed up the CCHQ review carried out recently?) first. Efficiency and cost savings boosts credibility. Keep frontline services up, address admin.
Independent 2003 and no better since then:

Can it really be true that there are more managers in the NHS than there are beds? More managers than there are qualified nurses? Apparently it is.....
The health budget has been increased by 21.5 per cent since 1999, but general activity levels have increased by only 1.6 per cent

You think bailing out the banks is a kick in the balls. You aint seen nothing till the billcomes in. Its gonna hurt a lot. The Government have been warned for years of tight fiscal returns and has refused to put taxes up to pay for it and now itll have no choice but to do so.

"So you don`t think its wrong that some millionaires in this country pay less tax than there cleaners. You don`t think its wrong that some Russian billionaires live in luxury in this country and pay no taxes.
You would rather see the old and the sick and the needy hit than make millionaires pay there fair share."

Yes,Jack, I do think it is wrong. Very much. Sometimes you get things completely wrong but on this you are correct. The Conservative party should be a party of fairness and in no way be in favour of exempting the super rich from tax.
Labour, in power for almost 12 years, are very much responsible for the situation that you describe. It worries that there are those in the Conservative party - see comments above- who are happy to go along with it.

While the Conservative Party talks about cuts the Lib/Dems are rightly talking about how we can improve education and other services for the poorest.
The Conservatives are committing the same mistake they made in the last two elections in not realising that voters value public services more than tax cuts.

Jack Stone - taking education as one example it would be entirely possible to make substantial cuts and improve the quality. Labour's hosing of money at everything without any sense of direction was seen by them as a solution in itself. Education has not improved under Labour - grade inflation has been the tool of choice to create an illusion of improvement. Literacy and numeracy has barely improved and declined on some measures. Etc etc.

"You don`t think its wrong that some Russian billionaires live in luxury in this country and pay no taxes".

Yes, I do - but obviously Gordon Brown doesn't, Jack, as he is the person who has been in charge for the last eleven years and has done absolutely B***** all about it!

"Education has not improved under Labour - grade inflation has been the tool of choice to create an illusion of improvement".

John, for a prize example, please see my post under AOB about GCSEs.

sbegchui - "Let's hit the waste identified by the TPA".

Oh, but we have it on the authority of Labour MEP Richard Corbett:


that the Taxpayers' Alliance is "dishonest".

Somebody using the same name as that eurofanatic liar and traitor, the Labour Richard Corbett MEP, has also just recommended that the Tory MEPs should stay with the EPP:


even though it "has some federalists".

So I guess he must know what he's talking about.

No question cut cut cut. There is no other way to regain some sort of economic sanity.
"You don`t think its wrong that some Russian billionaires live in luxury in this country and pay no taxes." labour welcomed these shady folk in and for the most part we did not complain loudly when it seemed to suit us. Russia isn't a basket case anymore, we should recognize that and force the naughty tax evaders to go home.Britain has always played rather loose and fast, and now would not be a good time to change our national rules. We should be less than willing to underwrite American debt.

"You would rather see the old and the sick and the needy hit than make millionaires pay there fair share."

I would rather see the old and weak in some luxury myself..the notion that the millionaire is unwilling to pay his way, is mostly a "miff" as me mum used to insist.
What he doesn't want is to have the means of his Millionairness taken away from him faster than he can generate more. This is why a return to sterling accounting would cure much of the misunderstanding about relative value.

Well, let Richard Corbett do his thing and let the TPA get productive.

"There is a alternative to spending cuts that is tax increases."

And what makes you think spending cuts would be wrong? Let's take the analogy of gardening. Every so often you need to take out the pruning shears and cut out all dead wood so that the new growth can breathe and take root. It's what my brother who does my garden for me is doing at the moment - like all gardeners at this time of the year. Come the summer my little patch will blossom and look a picture.

Given the state that Jack Stone's Labour friends have allowed our economy to get into it will take longer than a few months for the new growth to appear. However, it is more likely to come after a good pruning under the Conservatives.

I can't believe how spineless we're being on this. We've all been saying that there should be spending cuts for the last 12 years. If our party had the guts to tell the truth we'd have credibility and could now be telling the public "we told you so".

We knew sticking to Brown's spending plans was a non-starter. It only took the implosion of the economy to get that stupid idea out of our heads. Please can we call for some cuts NOW, rather than waiting until the deficit to get even more out of control.

And all because the Tories cannot or won't oppose.
Wet, Wet, Wet.

The key to understanding the supine nature of the Tories is in Mr Cameron's leadership acceptance speech. ""Come & join us - we're NICE people.""
And there it is. Mr Cameron's obsession is for the party to be seen as NICE. Policies would get in the way of that aim - much better for him, in his PR way, to play mood music and carry on "detoxifying the brand".

Massive cuts.

That's what's coming... whoever is in power. The only questions are "where" and "by which method."

Of course, there's always a chance Labour might just keep printing money, which is a stealth tax rather than a cut. But you have to wonder if, even as blundering as they have shown themselves to be, they would continue to dig that particular hole.

I hope our own cutting method is to take the sword to the budgets of every quango in the country, and the legions of unelected bureaucrats who bloat every public institution in the nation, overpaid, over-pensioned and over-bonused.

Really, there's now no need for the government to cut its expenditure.

Yesterday the Bank of England bought existing gilts to the (market) value of £2 billion, using money it conjured out of thin air.

Having taken those gilts out of circulation, the Bank will keep them locked away for the duration of the recession, at least.

Today the Treasury will sell new gilts to the value of £3 billion, to help fund the government's budget deficit.

So the government will then have £3 billion more to spend, but it has only had to tap investors for £1 billion - the other £2 billion being newly created money.

This insane cycle will be repeated until the Bank has created £100 billion, and it has found its way into the government's coffers, and if that isn't enough there could be another £100 billion, then another ...

As I have read, the plan is:

Mondays and Wednesdays - Bank buys existing gilts.

Tuesdays and Thursdays - Treasury sells new gilts.

A brilliant stroke - by borrowing two pounds from the Bank of England for every pound borrowed from investors, the government has put off the day when investors will say "Enough" and refuse to buy any more gilts, and in fact any fear of that happening has now disappeared.

Most media commentators have allowed themselves to get bogged down in the details of where the gilts bought by the Bank yesterday have come from, whether the newly created money it paid out will be hoarded or lent on, etc, etc.

Fraser Nelson got to the core of it yesterday evening:


"How Brown plans to borrow more money than the market would ever let him"

"For a while in Coffee House we’ve been saying that the markets wouldn’t let Brown borrow more: what if the Arabs and Chinese tire of buying all the debt?"

"... let’s not forget what the £150 billion “quantitative easing” package does - provides money that is to be spent on, well, government debt. Using the G20 as political cover, Brown now has the tools he needs to launch a massive pre-election tax cut - and post the bill to a Conservative government."

Not all of it, in fact; only two thirds, £100 billion out of the £150 billion.

At some point in the fairly remote future, something will have to be done with the stock of gilts accumulated by the Bank.

My prediction is that the government will arrange for the entire portfolio to be transferred to the Treasury's Debt Management Office, free of charge, and as it issued the bonds in the first place it'll simply cancel them once they've come back.

You're right Denis, Gordon Brown has created a Ponzi scheme that makes Madoff look like an amateur. The UK is fucked (strong word for strong times).

Madoff's scheme only defrauded people out of $35bn with no hope of them getting their money back. How much are we pouring into NI when we all no the pyramid will collapse before we get anything out? If Brown were running a business, he'd be in gaol for fraud.

Typical of the TROLL known as "jackstone" to criticise what other people are not saying. Where did I suggest any of these things?

Tax simplification, as already proposed by the Conservative party, would eliminate many of the loopholes that he mentions and that Labour have created to benefit their foreign cronies. It would raise some money. Reductions in waste and bureaucracy, but not frontline services, would also close the gap and the tax burden could then be reduced after a few years.

After all, it is Draper-Stone's friends in the Labour party that have created this mess and everything he has ever suggested would make it worse.

And what will a Conservative government do in the event that they get elected at the next GE.
Exactly the same as the New Labour government is being predicted to do, scrap all the guilts and start afresh with more tax payers money, oh no! it's no longer tax payers money it's "future" tax payers money, what a mess.
Get on with the job your paid to do - Oppose.

It seems to me that 'John Coles' is also a troll, and others such as 'adam' at the top of the comments (thats where they usually prefer to make their mark!), who go on, and on, and on, and on about how useless David Cameron has been, is, and inferring he therefore will be. That's the first time I have become aware that we have a dual government sitting in Parliament!!!!..i.e. that Mr. Brown will listen to what Mr. Cameron advises, and then actually use his suggestion.

No, of course that is not what the HoC's is about, so what are we to suppose that Adam, and John Coles et al are about? They know that Mr. Brown's SINGLE motivating thought, is to win the next election, with that end in mind, he/Brown would be delighted to pinch ideas from anyone, but only vote-winners.

Are you people advocating that Mr. Cameron, should be playing the role of feed-man to Brown, because of the Brown induced recession?? Thats what it sounds like!

I think 'rugfish' has got it right @ 17.09 yesterday, he often does!!

"Spending cuts are coming." In fact they have been with us for some time. As any user of front line services will confirm. The sad part is that thanks to labour we will have little choice but to make even deeper cuts.
D.C. is doing the right thing by "detoxifying the brand". The Conservative party is composed of Nice people. Even so we will not shy away from making the right decisions even when it means deep cuts. It will be essential to restrain public spending and reverse the trend that has seen the public sector boom. I think we will have a very tough time indeed, keeping the public on our side. Labour has started making cuts already, which we should applaud. Even so, if Labour had managed the economy properly in the first place, we would be in a very different position now.

Thanks, Patsy. I did say we have all seen through "jackstone" and that Draper would ghost-write under other names soon.

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