Cameron targets Brown's lethal combination of hyperactivity and ineffectiveness

Verdict: Narrow win for David Cameron although (1) he must stop breaching Commons rules and (2) I think Nick Clegg chose the right topic - the death of patients in Staffordshire because of Government targets.

Highlights, not verbatim:

12.27pm: Bill Cash says the Government's response to the Mid Staffs hospital disgrace is inadequate.  He calls for managers to be replaced and not just suspended on full pay.

12.17pm: Asking the question I expected Cameron to ask, Nick Clegg invites the Prime Minister to accept that his Government's frenzied targets were part of the reason for the deaths at Mid Staffordshire hospital (see also Julia Manning's CentreRight post).  Mr Clegg points to doctors who said they were obliged to abandon the very sick to tend patients with relatively minor ailments.  Brown apologises for the deaths and promises a review to find out what happened.

12.13pm: Labour is displaying a lethal combination of hyperactivity and ineffectiveness says David Cameron. The Speaker orders the Tory leader to withdraw his attack on Gordon Brown as "phoney".  This Government has presided over the fastest rise in unemployment in British history says Cameron and has done so without a hint of apology.  The Tories are wanting to cut spending in a recession, charges Brown, and its first priority on tax is an inheritance tax cut for the very wealthy. 

12.09pm: Cameron says the view from the bunker is that all government schemes have been implemented and are working properly.  In reality little is working.  This is an incompetent government that couldn't stop Fred Goodwin - the man Labour knighted for services to banking - from getting his bumper pension. 

12.07pm: Brown fails to answer Cameron's claim that not one single person has been helped by the Government's subsidy for new job recruits.  The Prime Minister goes on to list the schemes that Labour has introduced.

12.02pm: David Cameron asks about Britain's unemployment of more than two million. Isn't Gordon Brown's statement that Britain was best placed to survive the recession "nonsense"? In his second question he notes the IMF warning that Britain will be the only developed nation still in recession this time next year.  Brown replies by saying that unemployment is higher in most other nations and that Britain went into recession later than other nations.

Tim Montgomerie

Comments

[Jon]

you're running late....

[joshuwahwahwahwahwah]

I'm sorry guts. Mr Cameron has lost it. He is getting flustered and fluffing his words. The same Mr. Cameron has not returned after his tragic loss. It pains me to say that.

[joshuwahwahwahwahwah]

And that was out of order to Mr Skinner. He looked like a school yard bully tut tut.

[David]

I can't watch it where I am, but I assume that for Josh to be posting his usual stuff Cameron must have used Brown as some sort of dour sponge to mop the floor...?

[Raj]

Excellent stuff by Cameron I thought. Had Brown on the back foot.

[Gezmond007]

David back to his usual self , shouting and slagging off Brown. He never learns and makes himself look like a schoolyard bully .

Grow up and be more like a Prime Minister in waiting.

[David]

I repeat my earlier comment in the light of Gezmond's familiar ramblings.

[Gezmond007]

David get your head out of the stand and start being objective and look through the blue tinted glasses.

[William Blake's Ghost]

Oh what a joy to watch David Cameron stick it to the Beast of Bolsover. As for Brown, I cannot bother with all the contemptuous rhetoric anymore. Brown and Labour are pathetic failures simple as that. Who cares what unemployment is in foreign countries? It’s a distraction The problem that needs to be addressed is here in the UK and Labour are failing to do so. Cameron danced, Brown stumbled, big points win for Cameron.

As for the comments above from Brown's muppets just like their leader their comments are nothing more than gibberish and nonsense. The result of dumbing down!

[Tim Montgomerie]

If comments can't even be half-insightful I'll delete them.

[joshuwahwahwahwahwah]

David,

I watch PMQ'S every week and sometimes in fact most times of late Mr Cameron winds hand down! Today he didn't. He lookred like a naughty schoolboy bully. Picking on Mr. SKinner and calling the PM a 'phoney', to which he was told to apologise.

He didn't get his point across about unemployment because he wasn't comfortable stood there giving GB grief a week after he had praised him.

The poor man is still grieving and it is not nice to watch.

[Justin Hinchcliffe]

I rhought DC was more than OK. What is Nick Robinson talking about?

Plus Dan Hannan doesn't seem so bad... when he's not talking about his favourite subject! (-:

[Iain]

Cameron's description of Brown in the bunker neatly put Brown where he is, in the bunker.

[DJT]

It takes a LOT for the BBC to surprise me these days...

But the drivel Nick Robinson has just come out with has me in shock! Thank goodness that Andrew Neil, the Conservative MEP and even the odious Charles Clark put him (somewhat) in his place! Shame he ran out of the London studio before he had chance to reply though!

This cannot be allowed to go on any longer, it is just not right!

[Mark]

I'm sorry guts. Mr Cameron has lost it. He is getting flustered and fluffing his words. The same Mr. Cameron has not returned after his tragic loss. It pains me to say that.

Posted by: joshuwahwahwahwahwah | March 18, 2009 at 12:09

-----------------

What? Dave was really on form today - totally wiped the floor with Brown.

Cameron appears to be even more passionate now.

[rascalrob]

Don't think Cameron was really in the wrong calling Brown a Phoney. He's echoing the thoughts of the British public and there's plenty of proof to backup the statement. Also good for Skinner to get a taste of his own medicine for once. Clear win for Cameron, all Brown has left are his 'tractor-figures'. The trouble is, no-one believes him anymore as he's pulled the wool over the nation's eyes once too often.

[joshuwahwah]

Mark,

It is no use being passionate if you are not going to ask the right questions or indeed if you do ask the right questions, if you don't get the answer you wanted. He went on Unemployment and had it thrown straight back in his face with regards to public cuts. Whether that is true or not (cuts) that is what GB's sounbite will be on the 6 o'clock news tonight and therefore it didn't work. It also gave GB the opportunity to say that the only people who will benefit from a Conservative Government will be the 3000 richest estates in the country due to IHT and of course he is correct.

[Jack Stone]

On a day when a NHS Trust is accussed of possibly being responsible for four hundred deaths the leader of the opposition doesn`t ask one question on the NHS but instead chooses to go on the economy. It shows the Conservative party still haven`t changed. Still more concerned with money than peoples lives and still not giving a damm about the NHS.

[joshuwahwahwahwahwah]

Interesting.....Daniel Hannan on the Daily Politics 'everyone knows we need a stronger Europe' What's all that about?

[DJT]

Personally I'm not worried about the term "cuts" being used now...as i'm pretty sure that the million or so people who actually decide an election (and who we are way ahead with in the polls) know that Labour's interpretation of "cuts" actually means reduced increases in spending.

Those who don't already know that probably had long since stopped caring about what Brown says or agree that building up a generation's worth of national debt isn't really a good idea!

[joshuwahwah]

DJT

The Conservative party are not 'way ahead in the polls'. Being 10% in one and 12% in another is not 'way ahead. In fact Labour who are on 30% only need 36% to win another term in office.

[Adam]

David Cameron briefs senior MP's on the need to focus on the NHS as reported in The Times today, yet when he has the chance at PMQ's to highlight the death of patients in Staffordshire and the failings in that NHS trust, he doesn't say anything! How odd.

[Serf]

On a day when a NHS Trust is accussed of possibly being responsible for four hundred deaths the leader of the opposition doesn`t ask one question on the NHS

I have to say I was surprised at that. Perhaps he had a word with Nick Clegg before hand.

That said, how many job losses equal one life, 100, 1000, 10.000, 100.000?

165.000 more people are jobless thanks to TractorMan.

[Raj]

In fact Labour who are on 30% only need 36% to win another term in office.

That is not based on hard fact. Polling from marginals suggest that Cameron & co are further ahead there than they are according to national polls. That would mean that they don't need a large lead in the votes just to have a 1 MP majority.

[DJT]

joshuwahwah @ 12.59

I think you must have misread my post.

If you read again you'll see my claim is that we are way ahead with those very few people (say a million) who actually decide General Elections...that is those switch voters in marginal seats.

I stick to my claim that we are way ahead with these, the most crucial of General Election voters!...These polls, as documented on this site, suggest we are far further ahead here than the national poll leads of 10-15%. I dont claim national polls are irrelevant, but in the course of actually winning a GE, they appear to be far less important that margianal constituency polls.

[Northernlass]

I normally respect Nick Robinson's opinion but today I think he completely mis-judged Cameron's impact and performance.A clear win for Cameron in my view.

[Malcolm Dunn]

Didn't watch it but from the comments and the post it doesn't sound very good. I think both men have misread the mood, yah boo politics seems so inadequate given the circumstances.

[StevenAdams]

A good win for Cameron. I think those people above who say he 'bullied' Skinner have not an ounce of sense between them. Denis Skinner is the biggest bully of them all! If he had a bit handed back to him, it's only a few decades too late in my opinion.

Cameron was absolutely right not to go on NHS. Given what he's just been through, and who he has been relying on for his family for the past few years, an attack on the NHS (via govt) would have been ill-judged and ill-perceived.

Indeed, for Jack Stone to say that the Cons are heartless and focusing on money and not lives is the most gross hypocrisy! Doesn't he realise that it is HIS govt that introduced these culpable targets?? Doesn't he realise that every job lost is a story of personal misery and tragedy??

For crying out loud, there are so many sticks to beat this government with we'd be here until Doomsday if we were to cover them all...

[StevenAdams]

@Joshuwahwah

are you really going to judge Cameron for – in your opinion – getting flustered and fluffing his lines? Have you ever seen Gordon Brown at PMQs? Ever??

[Victor, NW Kent]

Malcolm - when you catch up you will see that Cameron judged the mood exactly. Brown was morbidly bad and rather silly when comparing our workless with those in the USA, France and Germany. The counting methodology is different. There are many people who have become redundant but who cannot claim benefits because they still have savings.

Cameron is deliberately following a policy of not attacking NHS failures. Otherwise Brown and Mandelson will raise banners saying he is going to axe the NHS. Their current cop of slanders have worn out.

Clegg dealt with it very well.

[William Blake's Ghost]

Tim,

I think the first comment is misleading. Firstly, it reads as if Cameron is continually breaching the rules. Now I cannot recall another occasion when the speaker has called David Cameron to account (willing to be corrected if you want).

Furthermore, I would point to Iain Dale's post and apparently David Cameron has made similar charges previously without facing censure. So is it a breach when the Speaker feels like making it one and when the topic is particularly embarrassing to the Government?

As for it being the wrong topic - whilst the Staffordshire hospital failure is tragic and an outrageous failure of Government policy - try telling that to the hundreds of thousands of people who have lost their jobs in recent months with no help from the Government other than lip-service and who live in a country where there are insufficient jobs to go around who now face the real possibility of losing their homes and seemingly living much of the rest of their lives in relative poverty.

Tough choices yes - David Cameron just made one and he made the right call IMO.

[liz kemp]

But our Prime Minister Gordon Brown IS a phoney. End of story.Nick Robinson is such a loser!
Liz Kemp

[A Reformed Labour Voter]

Malcolm Dunn

Please tell me what is the mood? And what would have been 'adequate' politics in these circumstances?

Here's a brief overview of where we are:

The Government already needed massive borrowings after 15 years of growth. Now after Brown's Banking 'Regulatory System' failed and he has bailed the Banks out, the borrowings are so huge no one really knows how much the tax payer owes.

As a result of the Open Door Immigration Policy, one in seven of children in schools does not have English as their first language.
How can our schools deal with that?

After years of Labour pouring tax payers cash in to an unreformed NHS, we learn that a hospital is effectively killing people because of neglect and incompetence.

Officially, we have over 2 million unemployed (Labour MP Frank Field puts real figure over 5 million).

IMF says recession will last much longer in UK than any other Western country.

And you complain about yah boo politics!

What should Mr Cameron do? Quietly suggest that the above is unfortunate? A little disappointing? Or perhaps just agree with the deluded mad man in Number 10, who tells us that all these problems started in America - "nothing to do with me Guv"

[Tim Montgomerie]

@William Blake's Ghost

"Now I cannot recall another occasion when the speaker has called David Cameron to account (willing to be corrected if you want)."

DC has been previously reprimanded for constantly using "you" when addressing the Prime Minister. Convention is that MPs address the Speaker.

[Oberon Houston]

Funny, Cameron's performance gets a luke warm reception on this thread. Over on the Spectator, Fraser Nelson say's Cameron 'pummels Brown in PMQs'.

http://www.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/3452586/cameron-pummels-brown-in-pmqs.thtml

On Guido the Cameron 'bunker mentality' line also get a very warm reception, because its a Guido line, but it does seem to me that we are harder on Cameron on this site that others are. High expectations I suppose - which is a good thing?

http://www.order-order.com/

[Teesbridge]

"...the party of the few (42%)...[not] the party of the many (30%)..."

If that's an indication of the arithmetical skills of the Prime Minister we are even further up the Devil's Fundament than we thought.

[pp]

"Phoney" - its probably the kindest thing that everyone thinks...

Noone likes the speaker, noone likes brown - only NR thinks it matters that it had to be withdrawn...

[Jack Stone]

SteveAdams. The present government are not my government. I didn`t vote them and I certainly don`t support them but I will say when I think they are right and the Conservatives are wrong.I am not someone who walks round with blind loyalty to any party.
Cameron showed today that for all his talk he couldn`t give a damm about the NHS and because of that indifferance I am sure that were he to become Prime Minister the pledge not to cut the NHS budget would be one of the first promises to be broken.

[Mark Hudson]

Tim has judged it correctly. Neither Cameron nor Brown looked very impressive. It will continue to exacerbate the view that our political class is either incapable or disinterested in solving our nation's problems.

[Doug]

The Labour trolls are really out today. I love the smell of desperation in the afternoon.

Great performance from Cameron today. The phoney comment just highlights Martin's utter incompetence and unfamiliarity with House rules as he has happily allowed it in the past. This non story is getting more play than that Labour MP (I forget his name) who recently picked up the sceptre. No doubt the BBC will milk it for all its worth. But the fact is people don't care about petty House rules. They'd happily dump most of them in exchange for a competent legislative body that holds the government to account.

[ross.warren]

I thought that it was a good performance and he certainly had Brown on the back foot a couple of times. D.C. still has a tendency to go a little to far and isn't as cool-headed as we might hope. "Phony" is mild but it demonstrates the irritation that D.C. feels and yet again he went just a tad to far. As it is I score this a win to D.C. by quite some margin. It's good to see D.C. back. I suspect that the public are just as irritated by Brown as D.C. is, and so I don't think calling Brown a phony will do any damage to our support.

[Freddy]

There was going to be a statement on the Staffordshire hospital scandal immediately after PMQs so it would have been unwise to have led on that, although the thought of it makes my blood boil! By next week more details will be available. My instincts tell me that Labour's crazy target culture is responsible for all of it - I mean how did this hospital ever get foundation status?

Regarding the word phoney - it is only mildly insulting. Some would say that it is accurate when applied to BROWN.It has achieved one objective, however, the incident was reported on the BBCs web site, and the BBCs teletext. Could this apparent slip be a deliberate mistake?

As far as Dennis Skinner is concerned, I have noticed that he has been more active in "dishing it out" to our lads and lasses recently.

To the Labour supporters who comment on our web site (I've counted 9 posts on this one thread alone) I say thank you for your contributions. I am pleased to see that you find ConservativeHome so fascinating!

[DJT]

If some of us dont think Cameron did too well (I disagree and give him 7/10 today).

Then just think how bad (both of) Labour's remaining voters feel about how bad their (unelected) leader does each week!

Clegg did better today too, not that it's even relevant!

[michael m]

Has anyone seen how the pound has fallen again in recent days- that's the real verdict on this phoney lot

[johnfromcamberley]

Well, I thought the jibe at Skinner was perfectly justified. Josh seems to think he should be treated like some higher being! The funny bit, I thought, was Skinner standing up and hoping to catch the Speaker's eye, more or less at every opportunity for about five minutes afterwards. Martin, knowing that anything Skinner said would just damage Labour's cause further, wouldn't let him in. When Skinner realised he wasn't going to get a chance, he spent the rest of the session sulking and looking at the ceiling. Good comedy!

Martin undoubtedly thought he was helping Gord by interjecting on the "phoney" remark, but frankly, Cameron had made his point well enough, justified it with the facts, and all Martin achieved was to emphasise the point. Robinson's view, that by letting himself be rebuked, Cameron had "blown" the entire PMQs, was absolutely laughable. But Robinson's journalistic integrity is hardly a serious concept these days. Let us not forget that in Brown's address to both houses in the States just a few days ago, Robinson was reporting the total number of standing ovations he received (and, in fact, getting it wrong, too) forty minutes before the end. Robinson is merely Gord's little-helper-in-chief at the BBC, and should be treated as such.

[a-tracy]

I'm very confused about the unemployment figures. The BBC News website at 12:24 reported that the number of people unemployed to January totalled 2.03 million, up by 165,000 (ONS) from Nov08 to Jan09.

In the same story they reported that at the end of Dec 2008 there was a net loss in private sector employment of 13,000 from Sep 08 and a net increase of 15,000 in the public sector. Which produces a 2,000 increase in jobs by the end of December so where have the extra claimants come from?

[Northernlass]

It is not particularly surprising that Nick Robinson is again displaying Labour/Brown sympathies-he is after all the Political Editor of the BBC.He is merely following the examples set by his predecessors eg John Cole,John Sergeant and Andrew Marr.It should also be noted that many of the former Political Correspondents of the BBC have moved to left wing newspapers or taken up spin doctor duties for Labour.There is no reason to suppose that the majority of BBC's current crop of political correspondents will not be like minded but sprinkled with the odd Lib or Tory to give the impression of balance.

[Dorothy Wilson]

I watched PMQs and couldn't quite believe Nick Robinson's summing up at the end of it.

The rebuke over the word "phony" was a non event. In fact, I simply missed it. In any case, how can anyone take a rebuke from Speaker Martin seriously? He isn't exactly well known for his impartiality is he?

As for Dennis Skinner it is a pity nobody has pulled him down to size before. He is a disgrace to Parliament. Well done DC.

Now for Brown, well he sounded - as he always does in PMQs - like an old 78 record with the needle stuck in the groove repeating the same thing over and over again.

It is also noticeable how angry he looks - and sounds - when faced by DC and how he softens up when Labour stooges flatter him. That says a good deal about his ability to cope with criticism and is one of the reasons - although there are several more - why he can't bring himself to say "sorry" for the mess he has landed us in.

Then we have Nick Robinson. When he first joined the BBC he seemed ok. Unfortunately, he now seems tainted by the prevailing lef-wing ethos there. Not infrequently his posts on his BBC blog appear to be based on Government press releases and, almost invariably, have a snide way of implying criticism of the Conservatives.

[TToryBlog.com - The Editor says that I must warn you that I have been a naughty boy and not a loyal Tory-abix]

Well done to Cameron to slipping in the 'bunker' reference. This should be repeated as often as possible.

[Freddy]

@Tim

Is it too early to remind you about a poll on the BBC? Seems we're all fed up to the teeth with them! How about communicating the results of the poll to the BBC trust?

[Shaun Bennett]

"he must stop breaching Commons rules"

On the contrary. So long as he is breaking so called "rules" that the ordinary person in the street doesn't understand what the fuss is about, then he should continue to do so.

For example, he refers to the PM as "you" sometimes. Ordinary people don't give too hoots about that, but it puts this disgracefully biased Labour Speaker on the spot and makes him look as appalling as in fact he is.

How on earth has the Speaker remained in post for so long? Why don't Tory MPs have the guts to stand up to him and say "no, you've lost the confidence of this side of the House, and you should stand down".

[William Blake's Ghost]

Tim,

Fair enough, but I hardly consider that in the same context as Cameron's comment today and more importantly not in the same league as failing to answer the question asked that has been Brown's primary ploy to virtually every single question that David Cameron has asked since July 2007.

Given that fact and the Speakers' repeated failure to censure the Prime Minister, you making such an issue validating the Speaker's bias seems to be perversly out of perspective.

And before you mention that this relate's to respect for the office of Prime Minister, Brown being Prime Minister taints that very office, daily, and Labour will abuse the office repeatedly once out of office. Calling Brown a 'phoney' is no big deal as far as I am concerned because that is exactly what he is.

This Prime Minister only deserves contempt and ridicule and that is exactly what he is getting.

[StevenAdams]

@JackStone

The problem is, Jack, that I don't believe you. If you once, just once, ever admitted that a Conservative announcement might have validity, or if perhaps once you didn't leap to Labour's defence, then I may believe you. Moreover, to say that Cameron doesn't give a damn about the NHS because today at PMQs he focused on the economy (the day after unemployment reached 2 million even by govt's gerrymandered standards) is rather... rash? In fact, it's jumping a 30 foot conclusion from a standing start.

Jack, like it or not, you're Labour through and through and would do better to be honest about it (perhaps even with yourself).

[Jack Stone]

StevenAdams. It is your right not to believe me as it is my right to attack David Cameron. He has shown his true face and people should judge him on it. I believe all this concern for the NHS is spin and skin deep and those of us who use the NHS would have a far worse service should he become Prime Minister than we have now.

[Malcolm Dunn]

Reformed Labour Voter, the histrionics of recent PMQ's does not sit well with the grim situation in the country.
I'm much more interested in knowing what the government and opposition plan to do than the endless scoring of often petty party political points.
If I were David Cameron I would be softly spoken and serious when asking questions of the dire state of our economy.

[Sally Roberts]

" I believe all this concern for the NHS is spin and skin deep and those of us who use the NHS would have a far worse service should he become Prime Minister than we have now."

Yes, I would not expect you to believe anything else Jack! But don't worry - you'll be able to cheer yourself up with the large bar of chocolate that I believe Steve Foley is going to send you when we win the next Election!

[johnfromcamberley]

Jack Stone

One of the many problems with the Health Service is the Sacred Cow status that it has acquired with the Labour party. You seem to stuff it with money almost as an act of religeous reverence. The fact is that as a result, it is shockingly inefficient. It is already way past the point where extra money achieves anything at all at the service delivery end (as made clear this week). For example, supplier contracts are fat with profit (and I can tell you, it is the holy grail of many a slightly dodgy company to get onto the NHS approved suppliers list), and IT contracts are huge, vastly expensive, largely unsupervised and utterly ineffectual.

The point that you and the rest of Labour have to face, is that it is perfectly possible, with moderate skill, to reduce expenditure on the NHS without having the slightest impact on services. My understanding is that is what Conservative policy is about and so would yours be too, if you took the slightest bit of interest in policy rather than Labour's spin-drivel operation.

The notion that the health service is in some way at peril in Conservative hands is non-factual, purely a Labour fantasy to lie alongside "the man who waters down the workers' beer".

[Jack Stone]

Sally. I remember when the last Conservative government were in power and people were waiting more than two years for hip replacements and people with cancer were dying before they were able to get treatment so I think with the Conservative Partys record on the NHS people should have very real fears.
I am all for cutting out waste in the NHS but I believe savings should be reinvested in the health service to make it better not to provide tax cuts which would happen under the conservatives. Also if you do not increase health spending by at least two per cent above inflation which Cameron would not do that is a very real cut because of the higher rate of inflation that occurs in the NHS.
The Conserrvatives will make the NHS worse as they did when they were last in power I have no doubt about that at all.

[joshuwahwah]

For all of you that are banging on abuot our Health Service..... Please think about what you are saying. The last time tie Tories were in charge we had 2 year waiting lists as opposed to 18 weeks, less, actually 2 weeks for cancer patients. Plus the NHS was in such a state. No investment, no building programme, less Doctors, less Nurses. And with the proposed cuts by a future Tory Government it would go back the same way.

[Sally Roberts]

Jack, you have the brass neck to talk about cuts and declining services! How about the fact that Labour cut Health Visitors by 2,000 over the last four years? The fact that under Labour the number of NHS dentists decreased by 500 last year alone and apparently 7.4 million people had not been to a dentist since 2006 because they had been unable to find one? The fact that last year 14,000 assaults took place against patients in Mental Health wards - 180 of them on children?

I could go on .... It is a shameful record! Hang your head, Jack Stone!

[snegchui]

"because of the higher rate of inflation that occurs in the NHS."
And your evidence is?
And the real question is why? A little screwed up contract renegotiation or two?
Constant change? Constant mis-directed targets?
This is wicked spin of the most deceitful kind that destroys rational argument. Lots of flatulent activity does not necessarily equal productivity, and getting the Labour fad merchants and their useless CVs and even more useless lack of professional experience out of the Health Service can only benefit it.

[Sally Roberts]

"The last time tie Tories were in charge we had 2 year waiting lists as opposed to 18 weeks, less, actually 2 weeks for cancer patients."

Only because this Labour Government fiddles the figures!

and as for your statement about the NHS being in "such a state"....

Do you really think that a hospital where patients have to drink water out of vases, lie in their own excrement and be seen by Receptionists because there are insufficient doctors and nurses to attend to them is a fine advertisement for your precious Labour Party being in charge? I doubt the families of those poor unfortunate patients would agree with you.

[Sally Roberts]

All your Labour Government has done joshuawahwah (and what a childish name!) is impose top-down targets which create situations such as Stafford!

All that happens is that admin is the priority and satisfying those all important targets rather than genuinely effective patient care.

Those targets are an example of Labour's dishonesty and fiddling the figures.

Take as an example the four-hour A&E waiting time limit. This target has led to reduced measured waiting times in A&E, but
has encouraged some very perverse practices as hospitals strive to achieve the target.

These include:
• increasing short stay hospital admissions;
• making inappropriate admissions to other hospital units;
and,
• moving critically ill patients from high dependency areas, where this may not have been in the patient's interest.

Top-down targets are having a thoroughly negative effect on the NHS and patient care. We need no lectures from you on an NHS which is being wrecked beyond measure rather than "rebuilt" as you claim!

[ross.warren]

To be honest joshuwahwah is right about the under investment in the NHS during the last two Tory Administrations. I remember the run down condition of the PMH Hospital, how shocked I had been. Labour has made some little progress in this respect. Its not easy to recall how poor Swindons provision had become, under investment was only a part of the problem. It may well turn out that we cannot afford to maintain the Hospital trusts at their current level. If that is the case we may yet see a certain deterioration of the health service during our first term in office. Cuts will have an impact even on front line services. We have to hope that we can quickly return our economy to a healthy surplus, and so truly afford improvements in what will become an increasingly bare bones service. Labours improvements have been built on debt and on privatising the building of hospitals. It is very likely that we will want to further privatise some areas of health provision, and it may be that some services disappear all together. We may even want to insist that frivolous use of the NHS be paid for with charges for all cosmetic treatments. We should not be shy about our long term drive to replace the NHS with a privately funded alternative of better quality. We may wish to encourage the public to buy health insurance. We should not allow foolish harping about a supposed golden past let us loose sight of the fact that for the most part the National Health Service has always been underfunded, and will always be an underfunded institution. The only way for Joe public to get first class medical provision is for Joe Public to pay for same.
The National Health ponzi scheme is in deep manure which can only deepen as the demographic trends cut off the funding.

[Malcolm Dunn]

Why do you try to debate with Jack Sally? You must know by now it is impossible for him to do that. All he can do is regurgitate the same phrases again and again and again.
I wonder if he realises how stupid and out of his depth he seems.

[Robert Crozier]

Not going with the NHS obvious question was spot on. I have to say I'm with DC on this one. Others who know better that me may think the NHS inefficient etc but anytime me or my family have had a requirement for the NHS, we have received 1st class treatment. It is simply not an issue for me.

My real reason for posting is this... Tonight while watching PMQ's, my wife (who hates politics) heard DC deliver the now infamous "phoney" line. "That hit the nail on the head, that Gordon Brown is the reason this country is going down the tubes!" she said. If this is the reaction from more people who hate politics, goodness knows what sort of a kicking Labour will get at the next election.

[Span Ows]

I agree with the last comment (and I HAVE read all the others). I also agree with those who have expressed dismay (well, what do you expect) from Nick Robinson's comments on the Politics show afterwards.

DC today was spot on, the phoney comment was just part of a very strong performance and by not even the wildest stretch of the imagination "the only thing people will take away from this". I have to admit that today Clegg was also spot on!

Labour (new, old or otherwise) and especially Brown DO NOT HAVE A CLUE! And day by day it becomes more apparent...the ONLY thing I do not understand is HOW is it HUMANLY possible that they still have the 30% average poll...the stroy of the chimp wih a red rosette isn't a story at all, is it?

[Super Blue]

For once, I was able to watch PMQs before work today. DC was in top form, really deflating Skinner with the "Myners" joke, and getting the better of Brown, even when having to fight "Gorbals Mick", the most partisan Speaker we could ever have had.

PS Nick Robinson's "reviews" have been really disappointing.

[Matt Wright]

I take it from the Labour posts on here that Cameron hit a bullseye. We heard it on the radio in the car, my wife who is very apolitical, was laughing her head off at Brown. I'd say it was a clear Cameron win.

[pp]

Tim

You might want to update your verdict in light of this:-
http://iaindale.blogspot.com/2009/03/michael-martins-phoney-moment.html

Isn't the internet and public access to information a wonderful thing...