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I wasn't aware we were 'arming' Israel. Calls for us to disarm them are just ludicrous. Why would we want to and how exactly are we supposed to do it?
This is just base campaigning.No suprise it's the Liberal Democrats, it usually is.

Wonder what Lib Dem Friends of Israel have to say about this? It no doubt causes problems for Jewish Lib Dem activists of whom I know at least two in my local area.

Deplorable stuff from the LDs : politics' ugliest doorstep campaigners.

Saying that Israel is a democracy is rather simplistic. Avigdor Lieberman (foreign minister) on fellow members of the Knesset:

"During the Nuremberg trials at the end of World War II not only the criminals but their accomplices were executed. I hope this will be the fate of the collaborators in this house too."

On democracy:

"The vision I would like to see here is the entrenching of the Jewish and the Zionist state. I very much favor democracy, but when there is a contradiction between democratic and Jewish values, the Jewish and Zionist values are more important."

"Saying that Israel is a democracy is rather simplistic. Avigdor Lieberman (foreign minister) on fellow members of the Knesset:"

I am not aware that his opinions have stopped Israel being a democracy.

Wretched, tawdry stuff from the Lib Dems as usual.

Let's now deal with the beam in our own eye. This particular beam doesn't, as per the Lib Dem example above, emanate from local non-entities, unconnected to the party's leadership, but instead from our own Leadership's favourite - and favoured - think tank, Policy Exchange.

The details are here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/newsnight/2008/05/policy_exchange_dispute_update.html & here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/newsnight/7426015.stm & here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/theeditors/2007/12/disastrous__misjudgement.html

While obviously I've provided the links, so of course you can simply follow them to refresh your memory, the allegation was simply this - that in pursuit of the *vital* business of combating Islamicist extremism Policy Exchange employed falsified data. Dean Godson threatened repeatedly at the time to sue the BBC over their allegations that this had happened, in an effort to shut down coverage of the story. We now know, as per Policy Exchange's apology - http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/2009/03/30/exclusive-policy-exchange-forced-to-apologise-takes-report-off-website/ - that these weren't Newsnight allegations, they were, very, very unfortunately, Newsnight facts.

To repeat, unlike a ward leaflet by a going nowhere Liberal PPC, this was a.) intentionally falsified evidence b.) corrupting thereby the fight against the single most important counter-terror problem in Britain, and it was done by c.) the outfit that Cameron, and Boris, have turned to again and again not merely for advice but also for personnel.

Thus, we have now suffered what is self-evidently a major scandal on "the right", but where has coverage of it been today? No doubt a defence of sorts can be made that the silence thus far was born of ignorance of the facts, rather than malice and axe-grinding bias. Well as that defence is now gone, let's all sit back and see precisely just how much coverage this gets.

Israel is not beyond criticism. Just because you attack Israel does not make you anti`semitic or guilty of stiring up racial hatred.

"I wasn't aware we were 'arming' Israel."

It would be dishonest to say we don't sell them arms.We co-operate with them in many ways, in fact they are aiding us with some arms development as well.

" there is a contradiction between democratic and Jewish values, the Jewish and Zionist values are more important."

I would echo that but with Christian values.
However we are further from the ideal than Israel.

" It no doubt causes problems for Jewish Lib Dem activists " Indeed they must be looking towards the Conservatives with some envy right now.

"politics' ugliest doorstep campaigners2

What are they after all only week willed and self centred. The Wine soaked Liberals are often worthy of contempt. In this instance their position is indefensible and wrong, lets not be scared to say so.

This, is very similar to the leaflet circulated in a recent by election in Ilford. The Ilford leaflet also made reference to the Conservative leader of the Council, by name, immediately under the Gaza picture - his name is Alan Weinberg.

Interestingly there are no references to Gaza in Lib Dem leaflets currently being circulated in Wanstead ward where there is another by election for Redbridge.

As readers know I post under under my own name, here, on PBC and on Vote 2007. There have been some pretty vicious personal attacks on me by Lib Dems, on at least one occasion making play of my name.

I wonder why?

I agree with Peter. If they want to put out an anti-Israel Focus in Seven Sisters, I'd even find folk to deliver for them! (-:

It's time for Lynne Featherstone, the closest Lib Dem MP to Camden, to get off the fence and condemn them.

Far preferable that we arm Israel than our former customers in Iraq and current customers in Saudi Arabia.

"Israel is not beyond criticism. Just because you attack Israel does not make you anti`semitic or guilty of stiring up racial hatred."

In areas with sizeable Muslim populations?

Pfft...the Illiberal Dems have always been sail trimmers of the worst sort.

Well said Paul Oakley.

Ross Warren, I don't understand your post at all. I said I was not aware that we are arming Israel because as far as I'm aware that is exactly the case.

This is very worrying - the post from "Vince has nothing to worry about" on the other thread also reeks of implied Anti-Semitism.

Thankyou again, Tim. I don't think Conservative Home discusses this often enough.

We must continue in our support of Israel regardless of these dodgy tactics by the Lib Dems.

I don't see how anyone can support Israel after it's recent attack on Gaza. This isn't a choice between Israel and Hamas, it's a choice between what is right and what is wrong.

Israel is a democracy in the same sense that Apartheid South Africa was a democracy, which isn’t surprising considering the deep relationship Israel and apartheid South Africa had. Those Palestinians living in the occupied territories can’t vote because they are not Jewish, yet they have to abide by all the laws and decisions made by Israel. Meanwhile, Israeli settlers driving on “Israeli only” highways wave to Palestinians sitting on donkey carts going through long arduous checkpoints.

Oh, and we do arm Israel the same way we're arming Saudi Arabia. Why do we have to whore ourselves out for money? Arming any country in the Middle East is a bad idea.

"Israel is a democratic oasis in a desert of totalitarianism"

- Tim Montgomerie

If you want to act as an apologist for the 'chosen peoples' violent occupation of their 'promised land' then by all means do so, Tim.

But don't treat your readers like idiots.

Israel is an apartheid state which is guilty of the the illegal occupation of Palestine as well as a hideous collection of warcrimes.

You know it, I know it, and so does anybody else who has an interest in the region.

I found it bizarre that Lieberman finishing third was held to more of a threat to peace than a terrorist organisation (Hamas) winning.

On topic, LibDems have form in this area.Quite why, I don't know.

"the Liberal Democrats don't believe Israel should be helped by the west to defend itself."

- Tim Montgomerie.

Israel's warcrimes against the civilian population of Palestine can hardly be called 'self defence'.

It would be the nice if the Conservative leadership would stop being so cowardly and come out in defence of Israel more often.

Adam. I think its about time the conservative leadership defended the right of the Palestinians to have a homeland of there own.

Britain does NOT arm Israel. In fact it is Israel that arms Britain by supplying British Armed Forces with advanced equipment and electronics.

Perhaps Britain should stop buying Saudi oil until slavery ceases and they stop funding terrorism around the world ?

I'm a little confused here. It is Conservative policy that individual British citizens not have arms for their own defence, even if this leaves them helpless in the face of armed intruders in their own homes. I don't see the moral difference between this stance and demanding also that Israel, as a country, be rendered equally helpless. If anything, it is the Lib Dems who are being consistent.

Henry Mayhew is not a UKIP member as his subscription lapsed over a year ago. He has done little or no work the party - all talk but no action.

There is no UKIP Friends of Arabia but Mike Zuckerman, party Hon Secretary, is organising UKIP Friends Of Israel.

'UKIP Campaigner', why don't you post your efforts on a UKIP website, this one is called ConservativeHome. I have never heard of the great Mike Zuckerman and his useless UKIP Friends of Israel so he can shove off too. Ukippers on this site traditionally support the arabs so don't be divisive.

Use your real name next time you cowardly swine and you have no right to plunder the party's database for your tragic, boring, self-aggrandising comments.

Yes, this IS ConservativeHome, not UKIPHomeless!

Please can we keep to the topic of thread...

UKIP Campaigner, whoever this may be, is correct. I am have helped set up UKIP FoI alongside Mike Zuckerman and Elizabeth Burton.
Israel is a democracy continually threatened with destruction from all sides. Does anybody seriously believe that Israel would last a week if it disarmed? Of course not, it would be utterly destroyed. Let Hamas and the other terrorist organisations halt their bombing and rocket attacks on Israel and the Israelis will gladly embrace peaceful co-existence.

In an interview with Member of the Knesset Dr. Arieh Eldad in the New English Review...

I was instrumental in establishing the Israeli National Skin Bank, which is the largest in the world. The National Skin Bank stores skin for every day needs as well as for war time or mass casualty situations. This skin bank is hosted at the Hadassah Ein Kerem University hospital in Jerusalem where I was the chairman of plastic surgery.
This is how I was asked to supply skin for an Arab woman from Gaza, who was hospitalized in Soroka Hospital in Beersheba after her family burned her. Usually, such atrocities happen among Arab families when the women are suspected of having an affair. We supplied all the needed Homografts for her treatment. She was successfully treated by my friend and colleague Prof. Lior Rosenberg, and discharged to return to Gaza.
She was invited for regular follow up visits to the outpatient clinic in Beersheba. One day she was caught at a border crossing wearing a suicide belt. She meant to explode herself in the outpatient clinic of the hospital where they saved her life. It seems that her family promised her that if she did that, they would forgive her.

Wonder what our Lib Dems would feel if they were on the staff of that hospital. Of course, had the unfortunate woman been in that great democracy Saudi Arabia she might well have been beheaded for her "crime".

It is a pity that that Israel do not play cricket and on the verge to play England. The Lib Dems then could dig up the pitch....much safer then banning arms ! ooops sorry!! Hain in the Labour Party.

"Ukippers on this site traditionally support the Arabs " Henry Mayhew


Am I glad I left UKIP and joined the Conservative Party! No way could I ever support the Arabs!

UKIP supports democracy.
On the side of democracy is where you will find us.
I believe Mr. Mayhew may be alone in his views.

Being ignoramuses is nothing to boast about Steve and Ray.

Anyway, good luck with comprehending the other topics on this site. It's nice that you care.

ignoraMI, surely, Henry?

Er, perhaps you're right Sally. It's a word I only use on ConHome.

It appears 'StudentTory' would do well to concentrate on his/her studies rather than inane propaganda that ignores facts.

The British Government does export arms to Israel, which fuels the conflict between Israel and terrorist organisations like Hamas.

I have seen this article in full and in the very next sentence (which is not shown here) the terrorist actions of Hamas are condemned. If anybody's playing politics with this issue, it looks like it's Mr Philp.

>>The Lib Dems are attempting to incite hatred and fear for their own electoral advantage.<<

How is a call to stop selling arms to a country inciting hatred and fear?

Just heard that the Israeli regime has decided to renege on the Annapolis agreement.

Basically, Israel can't even be bothered to pretend that it has any intention of ever ending the occupation of Palestine.

Good news, hey Tim ?

The LibDem policy comes straight from the top


So it's hardly surprising to find PPCs quoting it.

What is the Conservative party line on licensing arms sales to countries which break UN resolutions? Do we give Israel a free pass?

Let us get this right, Francis,

Israel has a horrendous PR electoral system. No party won a quarter of the seats and the only coalition that could be negotiated had to include someone who doesn't like the Gaza half of Palestine. After all, he only has twelve thousand reasons to think that way.

The LimpDims, on the other hand, are grubbing for votes among Muslim populations and trying to pander to Islamism. In the same way, Labour pushed a pro-Pakistan solution to the Kashmir situation in 1997 to hoover up Muslim votes.

They both played with fire but there is a significant risk associated with that.

Henry [email protected] "I have never heard of the great Mike Zuckerman and his useless UKIP Friends of Israel so he can shove off too. Ukippers on this site traditionally support the arabs so don't be divisive."

Not being a member of UKIP I haven't heard of him either, but UKIP's website does show one Mike Zuckerman as the party's secretary. I put it to you that you are being divisive if you make comments like that about one of your own party's officials.

"Ross Warren, I don't understand your post at all. I said I was not aware that we are arming Israel because as far as I'm aware that is exactly the case."

Arms exports to Israel approved by the government totalled £22.5m in 2005 I don't have more up to date figures but as far as I am aware we have not stopped supplying arms to them. In addition we are involved in joint development of arms. As an example Israel's "round the corner" gun, and numerous explosive devices. So putting it bluntly I think your incorrect.

Henry might also like to read this:

UKIP leader attacks ‘trendy’ Israel-hate in EU Parliament

"Adam. I think its about time the conservative leadership defended the right of the Palestinians to have a homeland of there own."

As far as I know, we are still committed to the two state solution. I would prefer us to return to the spirit of the Balfour, with a single state housing both Jew and Arab in peaceful co-existence. When I talk to Jews, I am often told that they want us to honour the Balfour. For those who are unaware of the contents of the document here it is:

Dear Lord Rothschild,
I have much pleasure in conveying to you, on behalf of His Majesty's Government, the following declaration of sympathy with Jewish Zionist aspirations which has been submitted to, and approved by, the Cabinet:
"His Majesty's Government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country".
I should be grateful if you would bring this declaration to the knowledge of the Zionist Federation.

Yours sincerely
Arthur James Balfour

Who would have thought that such a seemingly benign declaration could be the cause of so much misunderstanding.

"Those who bless Israel will be blessed, those who curse her will be cursed." That is it !

95-97% Muslims living in Hampstead & Kilburn and Brent Central constituencies will vote Lib Dems because of Sarah Teather MP.


The United Kingdom’s Strategy for Countering International Terrorism (CONTEST 2)

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