Is 'Tories are talking Britain down' the new attack from Labour?

Highlights, not verbatim:

12.52pm: Martin Day notes Brown's "depression" gaffe.

TIM MONTGOMERIE'S VERDICT: "An unexceptional PMQs with David Cameron and Gordon Brown agreeing on the need to oppose protectionism but Cameron failing to get an apology from the Prime Minister for his British Jobs for British Workers remark.  Gordon Brown ended his final answer to David Cameron with a big attack on the Conservatives for 'talking Britain down'.  I wonder if that's Labour's new attack line?"

12.30pm: Brian Binley notes that a quarter of all council tax is now used for pensions.  He describes this as a "national pension outrage".  Brown says Tories should not attack local authority employees.

12.22pm: Labour MP (don't know who - nor did the BBC or Sky captioners) asks a question about unregulated capitalism while chewing gum.  Unbelievable!

12.15pm: Nick Clegg asks about The Guardian's investigation into British companies avoiding corporation tax.  Isn't it time, he says, for 'British taxes for British companies'?  Brown responds by saying he'll work internationally to clamp down on tax avoidance and wonders why the Liberal Democrats haven't returned a donation from a tax-dodging donor.

12.10pm: Cameron accuses Brown of taking people for fools again by talking free trade at international gatherings and pandering to isolationism at home with his BJFBW phrase.  One of the Prime Minister's faults is that he doesn't admit mistakes when they stare every one in the face.  The Conservative leader lists Brown's BJFBW expression, the claim of ending boom and bust and the idea that Britain was well-placed to beat recession.  Promise to not use the expression again, says Cameron.  Brown replies that the biggest error is to talk Britain down, to talk the pound down and to speculate about Britain needing to go to the IMF.

12.09pm: Labour MPs jeer loudly as Cameron accuses the Prime Minister of "opportunism" and "pandering to people's fears".  He calls on Mr Brown to apologise.  Brown replies that he is working overtime to free world trade and to provide British workers with more skills.

12.07pm: Cameron urges the Prime Minister to admit that his British Jobs for British Workers expression was an error of judgment and a nod towards protectionist sentiment.  Brown replies: Can anyone in this House say they don't want British workers to get jobs?

12.02pm: David Cameron urges Brown to send the strongest message to America that provisions in the draft stimulus bill that are protectionist are unacceptable. Gordon Brown replies that the biggest danger facing the world is a retreat into protectionism.  Brown says progress at Doha is not just important for Britain and wealthy nations but for poor nations, in particular.

Comments

[James]

In replying to Clegg, Brown referred to theiur doner as being a 'tax evader'.

Is that right, or was he a 'tax avoider'?

Genuine question - I don't know.

[Fredrik Ingemarsson]

As i see it, free trade is progressive, not reactionary.

Protectionism is reactionary not progressive

[The Bishop Swine]

"Protectionism is reactionary not progressive" It is however a natural knee jerk reaction, that I we need to fight against.

Not a great PM's in any sense and I must say I think Brown had a marginally better day than D.C.

It concerns me no end that Brown is making his "do nothing" label of our current policies on the economy stick. D.C. really must fight against that claim of Brown's, or it may be difficult to convince the public that its tosh.

[Martin Day]

You missed the shock headline:

Brown said that Britain was in "Depression" at PMQ's today.

Cannot see Labour accusing the Tories of Talking the economy down if it is in a "Depression" as Gordon Brown described it at PMQ's today.

[Conand]

If it is the new attack line Brown immediately undermined it by today saying 'Global Depression' rather than 'Global Recession'; as was noted (not least by the viewer's Emails) on the Daily Politics show.

[Martin Day]

Conand, Indeed and posted by a martin Day on Iain Dale's site in the LD ambulance blockingg thread!

That new Marginal poll for CH4 will hopefully mean it is yellow taxi time for the LD's at the next election!

[Tim Montgomerie]

Thank you Martin. I'll Twitter that now.

[The Bishop Swine]

"Is 'Tories are talking Britain down' the new attack from Labour?"

It's a blatant attempt to shut the opposition up. "Careless Talk costs Jobs"
Saying That D.C. et all, should not fear telling the truth, however unpalatable it might be to Comrade Brown. I don't think there is much danger of us overstating the trouble we are in economically. If anything D.C. has been being rather too kind.

[Whatever]

Bring on the trumpets!!

[Tanuki]

Tories may be talking britain down; it's Labour that are dragging britain down.

[Sally Roberts]

"Gordon Brown ended his final answer to David Cameron with a big attack on the Conservatives for 'talking Britain down'. I wonder if that's Labour's new attack line?""

If it is, it is not going to be a very effective one I suspect. The general public will merely see very clearly that Labour are living in cloud-cuckoo land!

[ChrisD]

I missed PMQ's. But it will be interesting to see if the equally negative attack of "talking down Britain" will be anymore effective than "the do nothing Tories"

And there lies the problem for Labour, having been in power for the last 12 years, and more importantly presiding over the current mess, a negative attack like this on the main opposition party loses its resonance.

Brown's obsession with bashing the Tories has come in many forms since Cameron became leader, just remember the Dave the chameleon adverts. It looks and sounds nasty, and that backfires on the government every time. Just remember how unsuccessful the Scottish Labour party were with their negative campaigning against the SNP back in 2007.

[Sally Roberts]

ChrisD, "Dave the Chameleon" was an example of something which backfired on Labour big-time! The little chameleon cartoon figure was so cute that it had rather the reverse effect of that which was intended.

[Iain]

I would suggest the whole of the British political establishment are talking down Britain. They all wax lyrical about multiculturalism, which is basically a backhanded insult to indigenous culture. They all wax lyrical about immigration and complain how lazy and idle indigenous people are. They all pursue policies aimed at selling off every last asset we own to foreign concerns. And they are all wedded to the EU project, which is about the destruction of Britain as an entity. What would be odd is if the British political establishment stopped kicking the living day lights out of the country .

[ChrisD]

"ChrisD, "Dave the Chameleon" was an example of something which backfired on Labour big-time! The little chameleon cartoon figure was so cute that it had rather the reverse effect of that which was intended."

Sally, I remember my youngest asking if I could buy them one.

Just seen that Martin Day has pointed out that Brown used the word Depression at PMQ's. How does that play with his accusation that the Tories are talking down Britain?

Also, just read this blog entry from Benedict Brogan, and although he thought that Brown was better to day in the way he was prepared for Cameron, his article does back up what I was saying earlier about Labour's attack struggling to resonant.
But, one of Brown's biggest problems for months, has been his categorical denial that the UK economy is in a very precarious state, or that his stewardship of the economy for 12 years had any hand in the mess we are now in.
The public just don't buy it, nor do they respect for behaving in this way. They don't want spin anymore, that was accepted and tolerated whiles times were good. Now they want strong leadership, and above all honesty. How many times have you heard someone admit they didn't like Mrs Thatcher, but they did respect her? That is why Brown is such a disaster for the country and his own party.

A lesson in shamelessness
"But Mr Brown used his last word to claim that Mr Cameron "has decided it is in the interests of the Conservastive party to talk Britain down and he should be ashamed". Of course, it is Mr Brown who should be ashamed for making such an allegation, but then he had just referred to the global crisis as a 'depression'. As I say, shameless, but also useful for bolstering PLP morale when the mood is bleak."

Don't agree with Benedict's last sentence though, the PLP are not buying anymore than the public right now.

[ChrisD]

Oops, "nor do they respect *him* for behaving in this way"

[griswold]

'Talking down Britain' the new line of attack. Yes.

Significant when in conext of Brown's Davos speech. The theme is the same.

Brown champion of Britain's peoples. Brown the positive. Brown the optimist. Brown the man for positive action.

Cameron the negative. Cameron the do nothing. Cameron the pessimist. Cameron of no hope.Cameron not on the side of the people.

It has Mandelson written all over it.

[Norm Brainer]

BBC have the clip of him saying 'depression'
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7869748.stm

What I noticed is that he corrects himself from saying recession to say depression so hardly a slip of the tongue.

Maybe it's a depression he intends to lead us into and he just couldn't remember if his plans had quite got us there yet.

[adrian]

Over dinner the other evening my wife and I were talking and we ended up talking very seriously about the prospect of emigrating. Talking Britain down. ha! It is Labour that have already taken Britain down.

[The Bishop Swine]

Yet again Brown's one Freudian slit, is more telling than he might like to admit. Of course we are not yet into a full blown depression, but Brown knows better than almost anyone the real state of our Nation.
I Hope D.C. makes him pay for his little slip.

[James Maskell]

I missed it live (reading while watching the telly, bad me!), but after listening to it again, he definitely consciously switched from recession to depression. He stopped partway through. If it was a slip of the tongue, perhaps he should be checked for Tourettes, in case he has any more sudden jerks in speech like that.

I dont buy it was a slip of the tongue. If it was a slip of the tongue he would have corrected himself immediately.

[Richard Calhoun]

I do believe Cameron should be providing detailed and searching question of Brown as to the future economic debt of this country and at the same time expressing the Tories answers to the problems that face the Country.

This is what the people want, they do not want Brown being forced to apologise etc, they want one of the Parties presenting some bold and radical ideas for getting us out of this unholy mess

[Iain]

"This is what the people want,"

What they wouldn't want is Cameron trying to get Brown to say he wouldn't be able to help British people with their employment, when he, with the Conservatives lame approach to the EU, wouldn't be able to help British people into jobs either.

It seemed to me the whole approach by Cameron at PMQ's made Parliament the loser, for he wasn't just hanging a sign around Brown's neck as being useless, he hung it around the whole of Parliament saying where British peoples employment is concerned Westminster is an irrelevance, and in signing up to what we have with the EU, ALL MP's are completely ineffective and useless.

PMQ's result, own goal , both sides lost!

[MG]

It is probably the new line of spin. As we have said before they are brilliant at spin. Do the public really want such a lousy Govt to win again because they are excellent at spin. If they think about it, no. However the Conservatives need to be just as good or better at developing the message/s if a working majority is to be secured.

[Chris]

The Cons reaction to this is laughable -Firstly Cameron misses this open goal and doesn't pick it up, in fact no Cons did - shows this PM in waiting how on the ball he is and how scripted Cameron is. And secondly, for the Cons to claim that Brown has to be careful with his language and how this can damage the economy - this from a party that has talked down every aspect of Britian at every opportunity and at every stage put oportunist party politics ahead of the good of the country - I shudder at the thought of these amatures running the country and anyone buying these Cons lies need an sanity test before being allowed to vote.

[Richard Carey]

I shudder at the thought of these amatures running the country and anyone buying these Cons lies need an sanity test before being allowed to vote.

Good thing they don't need a spelling test first as well...

[Malcolm Dunn]

A very poor PMQ's all round I thought. Brown as always lamentable but I wonder if Cameron making what seemed to me to be pretty petty points is really the right thing to do in the current climate.

[Super Blue]

Is this the same Chris we were warned about last week, a LimpDim Group Leader somewhere?

[The Bishop Swine]

"I shudder at the thought of these amatures running the country and anyone buying these Cons lies need an sanity test before being allowed to vote.

Good thing they don't need a spelling test first as well."

Good put down, but really when did the English language become fixed? If you can find me a single page from a national newspaper that is utterly correct in every detail.I'll eat a dictionary.

[Dorothy Wilson]

One of the big problems with PMQ is the totally inadequate Speaker. Someone ought to remind him that the purpose of PMQs is surely for MPs and particularly those on the opposition benches to hold the PM to account on behalf of the electorate. It is not for the PM - of whatever party - to try to hold the leaders of the opposition parties to account.

Speaker Martin allows Brown to get away with this and with never answering questions. That being said, DC should now know that this is the case and should change his tactics.

Also, it should be part of the Conservatives' manifesto for the next election that they will introduce a rule that the Speaker should always be from a party other than that holding the majority. They should also promise - and keep to it - to lay down rules for PMQs to prevent a repeat of Brown's appalling behaviour, which in essence shows his contempt for the electorate - and for anyone who dares to question him. On that point, just notice the change in his body language when answering Cameron or Clegg and that he displays when answering questions from the toadies on his own side.