Michael Gove seeks Carol Vorderman's help with a Maths problem

The news broke in yesterday's News of the World and today we will see the formal announcement that Carol Vorderman of Countdown fame is to head a taskforce for the Conservative Party on the teaching of Maths.

She will join David Cameron and shadow children's secretary, Michael Gove, at a London school this morning at CCHQ (because snow has shut the school) for the launch of the taskforce, which will be marked by a live webcast at 11.15am now at 1.30pm, which we will stream at the bottom of this post.

Mr Gove has obtained figures which show that the poorest children are thirteen times more likely to fail Maths GCSE than they are to be awarded top marks, with only 3,312 children eligible for free school meals achieving an A or A* last year, compared to 44,368 who got below a C. He says:

“Millions of children have left school under Labour without a C in GCSE in Maths, which means the best jobs aren’t open to them. Now we can see that it is the poorest that are worst affected.”

He also warned that schools are finding it difficult to find enough properly qualified Maths teachers.

Ms Vorderman said of her new role:

"It's a critically important subject for the future of this country. If Britain is to emerge stronger from the recession, we have little choice but to sort it out now... David Cameron has asked me to look into how we can raise standards by making sure children are learning in the best way possible. What can we learn from India and the far east and eastern Europe? How has the US started to fight their maths problem?"

"In the last decade, 3.5 million children have left school without a basic qualification in maths, a shocking statistic... There are many centres of excellence and many fabulous teachers but help is needed for the children being failed. Maths is my passion, and there is no question that Britain has developed a fear of the subject and it is time to break that cycle."

Jonathan Isaby   

Watch the webcast at 1.30pm here:

Comments

[Norm Brainer]

children are thirteen times more likely to fail Maths GCSE than they are to be awarded top marks, with only 3,312 children eligible for free school meals achieving an A or A* last year, compared to 44,368 who got below a C.

How does that compare to the average of those who don't get free school meals?

[Sally Roberts]

It is good news if anything is being done to highlight the numbers of children who have difficulties with maths - and the many who have suffered from poor teaching in the subject.
I believe maths teaching has improved a great deal since I was at school and I, as someone who suffers from what is now recognised as dyscalculia, experienced teaching at my two schools which could only be described as "patchy" at best! At the age of 14 I was "advised" to give up maths and take biology as my only science subject at O Level. I am sure with patient and more expert teaching I could possibly have scraped a pass!

[James Maskell]

So not only are exams too easy with standards too low as Conservatives have in the past argued, they are now too high and leading to poorer results? Which is it Gove?

[ceidwadwyr]

Do you think she could help children work out the compound intrest on the sub-prime mortgages she used to flog?

Cant understand why central office think being associated with this type of mortgage is a good idea in the current climate.

As it says on their website :

A FIRSTPLUS LOAN IS SECURED ON YOUR HOME. THINK CAREFULLY BEFORE SECURING OTHER DEBTS AGAINST YOUR HOME. YOUR HOME MAY BE REPOSSESSED IF YOU DO NOT KEEP UP REPAYMENTS ON A MORTGAGE OR ANY OTHER DEBT SECURED ON IT

[a-tracy]

An excellent idea, Carol is a good mathematics role model for girls and I'm sure the boys will look forward to meeting her.
Personally I think it all goes wrong for poor children in primary school in year 5, if they don't know their times tables by rote in that year they struggle all the way through High School. Intensive lessons at least one hour per week after school (like Kumon that richer families buy into) for children struggling with basic maths in year 5 and 6 would go a long way to improve numeracy.

[The Bishop swine]

exactly free school meals is not the problem, neither is it a product of single mums. Its down in a large part to poor math's teaching. I have lost count of the numbers of times I have had to teach my son how to do basic math's properly after he has been confused by a teacher. Saying that its been worth the effort with him reaching 5.8 after only 2 teams at senior school. Now he is in a good school, and everthing is coming together. Yes we do receive free school meals, or at least in principle we could claim them, as I am a full time carer. I suspect that a major factor is a decent home and at least one parent who is able to take up the slack for the state system. Both my boys are good at the Math, and my eldest starts his A(s) level in accounting in September. Of course if we had challenging money like LSD more people would be able to cope with base's etc. GSTQ.

[David_at_Home]

Yet another manifestation of the Celebrity culture. Carol Vorderman is hardly a distinguished mathematician she would appear to have little experience of teaching art any level.

Why oh why cannot our political class (of all parties) not understand that this sort of headline grabbing move just increases public cynicism about politics in general?

[Deborah]

As a maths graduate, I have been profoundly frustrated by the way my teenage children have been taught maths. It has been time consuming , wasteful, often confusing and frequently fails to emphasise the most important aspects. Their teachers are good, but the materials and the curriculum are not.
A good start would be to return to a focus on teaching pupils one straight forward method of long multiplication, division etc rather than half a dozen different approaches which simply confuse the less mathematically- minded.
It would also help if the text books didn't change every year and were properly checked to remove errors and ambiguities and produce nice round answers that build pupils' confidence.
Most of all, pupils should be given lots of solid practice in the basics so these become second nature.
For the mathematically gifted, doing lots of examples can and should be fun. Those who have difficulty with the concepts need to be taught a reliable approach that works, not given a myriad of different methods and asked to guess what the answer might be.

[Bob Robert]

If the Labour party did something like this you would be slating them...

[The Bishop swine]

"As a maths graduate, I have been profoundly frustrated by the way my teenage children have been taught maths. It has been time consuming , wasteful, often confusing and frequently fails to emphasise the most important aspects" Its even worse at the primary stage. I am a technician by background having started out as a radio and TV engineer at 16-24. City and Guilds are experts at teaching complex maths to young people. Shouldn't we ask them for some support rather than celebrate the likes of ms Vorderman. I certainly would have been happier with a headline reading "city and guilds brought in to aid failing school system".

[Dorian Pride]

"If the Labour party did something like this you would be slating them..."

And quite right too, Labour's leadership hasn't got a clue about Mathmatics otherwise we would not be wasting so much money bailing out failed banks.

[YMT]

@David_at_Home

With an Engineering degree from Sidney at Cambridge Uni I would confidently say that she's probably a damn sight better at maths than you.

[Peter Harrison]

Norm Brainer - I can't immediately find the specific statistics but 17.9% of pupils receiving freee school meals achieve 5 A*-C passes including English and Maths whereas the figure is 44.8% for those not receiving free school meals.

James Maskell - at what point is either Carol Vorderman or Michael Gove arguing that poor results are due to exams being too difficult? The aim, surely, is to raise the standard of maths teaching, not make exams easier.

[The Bishop swine]

"@YMT

With an Engineering degree from Sidney at Cambridge Uni I would confidently say that she's probably a damn sight better at maths than you." So which was it Sidney or Cambridge. One of my best friends is a Cambridge MA in engineering and he is pretty darn hot, but can he fix a TV...grow up, your ego is out of control.

[The Bishop swine]

whoops sorry "@YMT Got the wrong end of that one. She (I thought you meant you) darn it trying to do to many things at once is always a mistake. Please except my apologies.

[Alan Phillips]

Whilst I'd normally be happy with this type of inititive, I'd have thought Jonny Ball would be a better choice. I'd have been up the creek without a paddle had it not been for JB and his "Think of a number" programme and the excellent production of said programme. I wait with baited breath, for this to reach a conclussion, however agree it's much required, so at least it's on the agenda.

[RobD]

Bichop Swine - she went to Sidney Sussex college at Cambridge Uni. I'm an Oxford man myself but I understand Sidney is one of, if not the, best Engineering degrees worldwide.

[David_at_Home]

YMT,

Carol Vorderman has a degree in Engineering from Cambridge (Sidney Sussex College) so I don't doubt that she is mathematically able though this hardly makes her a distinguished mathematician. The question is why she has been chosen over and above the quite large group of people who are both mathematically equipped AND have significant teaching experience. I think we all know the answer!

BTW, I have a degree in Engineering from UCL so your insulting jibe about my mathematical ability is false.

[JS]

Another silly headline grabbing gimmick - just like Blair etc., would have done !

[Opinicus]

@JS
Got to agree

Its a gimmick. There is so much wrong with state education in this country and this is Gove's effort

C-

[Andy, Harrogate]

This is a really shallow publicity stunt that is not worthy of the Conservative Party. Carol Vorderman has been paid for advertising consolidation loans that encouraged some of the least mathematically members of the population to borrow more than they could afford.

Seeking association with more discredited celebrities (e.g Kirsty Allsop on Housing Policy) is not the way to improve the image of the party. Michael Gove should be ashamed.

[support the strivers]

Tracy, Im shocked you think pupils have failed only if they cannot do tables by rote by year 5. Every single child in my class at school could recite tables up to 12 times table in year 2 (ie aged 5/6). This was considered a basic and not an achievement.

but noone had heard of "dyscalulia" then....

[support the strivers]

the worst thing is that actually we aren't trying to get children to do "mathematics" whihc is really alegbra, trig, geometry calculus.

all we ask is better referred to as basic arithmetic.

god that's depressing...

[Angelo Basu]

Is Carol Vorderman someone who the target group of parents and children will be interested in or someone whose main appeal is to a group who are already aware of the importance of maths? I'd have thought that the audience of Countdown would principally be people who are literate and numerate - to anyone else it would be about as meaningful as Numberwang, the spoof gameshow on the Mitchell & Webb show. I expect that she was chosen to be the face of all those consolidation loan companies because she was a celebrity known for being able to do maths "so you don't have to bother and can just trust her that it all adds up".

If we're going to go the Countdown route, Jeff Stelling would be a better bet on the basis of the maths needed to make sense of Football stats and league tables!

[Whitley Warrior]

I would agree with others who have expressed surprise at the choice of Ms Vorderman to head this task force. Apart from Ms Vorderman's doubtful talents at persuading people in debt to enter into consolidation loans they can hardly afford, what experience does she have of managing a task-force (or managing anything, come to that) and examining educational techniques?
Just because she obtained an engineering degree in Engineering from Cambridge does not make her a good manager or educationalist.

Judging by some of the grammatical howlers on this topic so far, there is more wrong with our educational system than just maths.

Ms Vorderman is the wrong choice for this task. An attractive and high profile television persona is not necessarily the most desirable attribute for someone charged with investigating our failing education system.

I would have thought a highly respected educationalist who is relatively unknown outside their field might have been a better choice.

Once again, this shows Cameron reaching out to grab headlines instead of making policy for the future of our young people. The man is a buffoon and should go.

[The Bishop swine]

Bishop Swine - she went to Sidney Sussex college at Cambridge Uni. I'm an Oxford man myself but I understand Sidney is one of, if not the, best Engineering degrees worldwide.

Thanks for clearing that up. I know a fair few Oxford and Cambridge graduates and to be honest all of them are excellent at what they do. I seriously believe that we could do worse than to get City & Guilds involved in our Mathematics teaching. C&G is excellent at defining the important, and most especially the practical aspects of a subject, and have experience in teaching people with little or no Mathmatics those parts that are needed to get the job done.
They are also skilled at taking people, who know nothing right up to degree entry level and beyond.

[The Bad Plus]

Ability of children has little to do with earnings when they become adults. What matters are life-chances, opportunity, networks and application.

Those things are created by society, and parents.

Money spent on maths education improvements will be largely wasted - if you haven't got it by the age of 11, even the best teachers and tools in the world won't make as much difference as better life chances from birth would have done.

http://www.newstatesman.com/ideas/2009/01/parents-children-parenting

Isn't this Tory policy? Can't you people even join up your own policies - what does that mean if, God forbid, you people are elected? I wish people would wake up and see Cameron and the Tories for what they are - frauds.

[David Bean]

Strivers has it right: one of the biggest problems with maths curricula these days is that a huge proportion of it is utterly irrelevant to the current and future lives of all but the small minority of students who go into engineering, or disciplines like that, so that even if a person does manage to get a good grade at the end of it they still won't have learned much that's actually wothwhile.

There should be a much greater emphasis on financial maths, basic accounting and statistics - all of which are extremely useful in a much wider variety of situations at work and in one's home life - and also pure mathematics, which starts to get to the heart of what mathematics is really about at its core, thus generating understanding.

The other thing to understand is that not everyone is adapted to learning maths in the same way, and that trying to teach someone in the wrong way leads to confusion, alienation and fear. Broadly speaking there are two relevant personality types - logical and emotional - and a lot more work needs to be done to find ways of reaching those who fall into the latter category, and deciding how to differentiate between the two and target the teaching styles appropriately.

[B.Garvie]

This is very good news indeed. Carol and Michael should make a good team. More importantly, this scheme should benefit all children.

It is so sad to witness nearly 20% of children at 16 years of age are completely illiterate. This is really unacceptable in 2009 after 12 years of Labour policies whose incoherant thinking has prioritised the wrong targets and failed a generation.

It will take a Tory administration to salvage the education system which has become a battle ground for socialist ideas and failed to teach each and EVERY child the basics.

So good luck to both Carol and Michael, it needs fresh thinking to get our schools back on track and help our next generation.

[The Bishop swine]

"If you haven't got it by the age of 11"

Why 11, its a completely arbitrary figure that smacks of that wasteful and often wrong system called the 11+. Of course coming from a "good" home has always been important. However I know plenty of people who have achieved great things coming from less than perfect backgrounds.

"Ability of children has little to do with earnings when they become adults."

There is only some truth in that statement.
Self confidence is probably more important in real terms than I.Q. but there are plenty of exceptionable people who I assure were exceptional children.

"Money spent on maths education improvements will be largely wasted"

Nonsense poor teaching is 99% of the problem, because to be Honest Math's isn't difficult if its taught properly.I have intervened with both of my children, to help them understand techniques they were taught so badly, they were both in danger of falling behind. I recall more than once having to insist my children did it my way, because they had not understood what was being taught and had become confused.

As Mathematics and English are the bedrock of a decent education, we should be very concerned about the problems we are currently having, and pull out all the stops to ensure our children get the help they need. Not only before 11 Years but after as well. It seems that mathematics is a subject that requires very careful teaching at the early stages if the children are not to become confused. I believe that Math's cannot be taught properly in large group's and class sizes need to be reduced for this Key subject. It is pointless having a good teacher if the class room assistant isn't up to the job. So we need to train up Mathematics assistants and insist on them having the right skills for the Job.

Finally I do not want a return of the 11+ it wastes far tom many children. It was designed in my opinion to produce Factory or Gun fodder. It ensued that many young people had their confidence destroyed before they had a chance to get going.
I do not agree with your assessment of the current Tory party or I would not be a part of it. In fact I believe that only the Conservative Party can turn this country around.

[support the strivers]

I guess I just wonder why previous generations didn't have these problems to this extent.

I can't get past the fact that the lower level welfare state, with commensurate feelings of shame for being involved as recipient from it, had something to do with it.

If you need to pass an exan to get a job to survive, you know what? you manage..

if your parents will have serious words about bad school results as they need you to contribute to the family income, you know what? you do well at school.

if you and everyone you know can survive reasonably well on benefits with someoen else funding a roof of some description over your head, you know what? you simply don;t bother...

until motivations are addressed, there is no point tinkering with the edges and working out how best to teach children.

[The Bishop swine]

"I guess I just wonder why previous generations didn't have these problems to this extent."

Most children left school at 13 with absolutely no qualifications. Your not comparing like with like.

"I can't get past the fact that the lower level welfare state, with commensurate feelings of shame for being involved as recipient from it, had something to do with it."

I agree that the Welfare state is in need of reform. Unemployment is a way of life for far to many people. We need a return to the concept of the "deserving" poor and of course that implies an undeserving poor also exists.

"If you need to pass an exam to get a job to survive, you know what? you manage"

Or you fail and starve? I suspect that you are pulling our legs. Victorian England was not built on GCSE's

"if your parents will have serious words about bad school results as they need you to contribute to the family income, you know what? you do well at school."

The Family is the bedrock of any Great Nation. Family breakdown is certinly a factor in many chiuldren's poor showing at school.

"if you and everyone you know can survive reasonably well on benefits with someoen else funding a roof of some description over your head, you know what? you simply don't bother..."

Welfare reform is essential, but lets not loose sight of the "deserving" poor, those who for no fault of their own cannot work.
Also work must pay, its immoral to expect a person to toil for poverty wages.

" until motivations are addressed, there is no point tinkering with the edges and working out how best to teach children"

We dare not abandon our children, motivation needs address but children need to be taught Mathematics properly. Only so much can be blamed on the Welfare state. If we fail our children we fail ourselves shortly after. It is today's children that will be tomorrow's tax payers. Let's do our best to give them the skills that are needed in work and dismantle the Welfare state in a considered and humane manner.

[snegchui]

It being so cold and all, we shall be saved as Carol should be dressed modestly. The inability of Mr Gove, on 20/03/2008, to lift his eyes when on the telly with Ulrika in full bloom is seared in the brain. If I was Mrs Gove, I would have slapped his face and sent him to bed without benefits indefinitely.
I hope despite the hype and hoopla the initiative works despite the distractions.
As for the Bishop Swine, if he 9is going about "excepting " his apologies, no wonder Mrs Bishop is on the wagging finger and diatribe trail.

[Wordyman]

Well, well - Shadow Children's Secretary Mr Michael Gove has appointed Carol Vorderman to head a taskforce for the Conservative Party on the teaching of Maths. Is she a Maths teacher? - probably not, but unlike most celebs she does have two brain cells to rub together.

Mr Gove also warned that schools are finding it difficult to find enough properly qualified Maths teachers - and one solution has been for Local Education Authorities to employ Maths-specialist Advisers/Consultants to support non-specialists who have to teach Maths because there are indeed not enough properly-qualified Maths teachers. These Advisers/Consultants are in most cases graduates in their subject, and also have teaching experience up to Head of Department level, so they know what they're talking about - at least, the one I know does.

Because I'm a member of the Conservative Party I'll be good to you. Find out which Conservative-controlled Local Authority in the south of England is going to make all its subject-specialist Advisers/Consultants redundant this coming September as a cost-saving measure - including its Maths specialist! Then you'll have a defensive brief ready when the local opposition parties and/or the Times Education Supplement pour justified scorn upon your latest vapid PR exercise.

[The Bishop's adorable Wife]

"As for the Bishop Swine, if he 9is going about "excepting " his apologies, no wonder Mrs Bishop is on the wagging finger and diatribe trail."

No, I am going to wag my finger at you. the Bishop admitted to getting it wrong. It cost very little to own up, and we should be as polite as necessary. Mind you, I would not have apologized because in fact the Bishop was right, to give him a ticking off for being an idiot. I am always right, the Bishop is right only about 75% of the time.

[The Bishop swine]

"accepting"

Dear, this spelling checker doesn't pick up on such things and neither its seems do you.
There are plenty of anal retentive's who spend all of their time looking for such appalling errors.

[support the strivers]

Bishop - completely agree with you re the "deserving poor" or those who cannot work owing to illness for example - noone surely would grudge them support? Of everyone in the UK, this group is the MOST hard done by and has the toughest lives.

why should the respectable hard working bus driver with 2 ch pay more tax to support the irresponsible and feckless?

it's disgusting.

[Stuart M]

Of course we need better Math. Gordon Brown's sums have never added up correctly...

[snegchui]

"the Bishop is right only about 75% of the time."
Verily, a jewel amongst men.

I actually thought the use of "except" was not a spelling mistake, but very clever "dumb insolence" as used by the brainier downtrodden the world over and you may have learnt over time to keep out a sharp eye for it.

The Word Spell and Grammar doesn't get it either, maybe Microsoft programmers are secret subversives which explains a lot.

But then neither does Open Office.

[Mark Fulford]

He also warned that schools are finding it difficult to find enough properly qualified Maths teachers.

The problem being that the most important qualification they need is in crowd control.

Every single child in my class at school could recite tables up to 12 times table in year 2 (ie aged 5/6).

"Support the strivers", I can confidently say that, on this, you are wrong.

[snegchui]

Kill lost of birds with one stone.
I am not a mathematician of any description, but always did see a rhythm in numbers, except the dratted 7 and 8.
Modern children are exposed to so much music, why not link the teaching of music and maths? Children are always a lot more interested in music, so get them in that way and slap the maths on after.
"Music theorists often use mathematics to understand musical structure and communicate new ways of hearing music. This has led to musical applications of set theory, abstract algebra, and number theory. Music scholars have also used mathematics to understand musical scales, and some composers have incorporated the Golden ratio and Fibonacci numbers into their work"
""Give me an A" = 440hz"

[Elaina Brier]

Didn't Carol Vorderman get a Douglas Hurd from University?....nuff said!

[Alan]

"In the last decade, 3.5 million children have left school without a basic qualification in maths, a shocking statistic."

A 'number of children' is not a statistic. Carol should know that!

[Mark Hudson]

Oh dear God, no. What are the Conservatives up to? What next? Graham Norton advises on Family Policy?

[Strawberries and Bananas]

It is often the case that people don't see why the maths that they learn is important in real life. I do think that maybe maths should include more about finance, etc, as well as calculus, trigonometry and the like. Finance is something that affects everybody, rich or poor, smart or not, so it would make sense to build it into the curriculum alongside current subjects.

As an engineer, I obviously see the importance of mathematics, and even though I did well at maths in school it wasn't until I came to University and actually used it properly that I realised its worth. I guess it's just a case that we need to juxtapose real-life mathematics and theoretical mathematics in our curriculum, and make children see why it is important.

[James Maskell]

To explain my comments earlier, my argument is that weve always argued that standards are too low and that therefore its too easy to get good grades in GCSE and yet Gove bemoans the numbers without maths qualifications, a reversal of the previous argument that it was all too easy. The argument about poverty only goes so far as we all know, there are a wide variety of reasons as to why some acheive and why some dont. Being poor is just one aspect of that and throwing money at the problem willnever solve it. Poverty of aspiration is as much a reason as poverty in monetary terms.

In my own experience, I was awful at Maths while at school and it suddenly made sense just in time for my GCSE exams. I dont recall being taught any differently.

[Peter Harrison]

James - I don't think saying there are too few children getting maths GCSE is a reversal of saying that it is too easy to get a good grade. In my mind, there is no inconsistency between saying an exam is too easy and saying that too few children pass it.

If I can use an analogy, if I were the manager of a football team and found that 30% of my players could run 30 yards in under 5 seconds, I might reasonably want to improve standards so that 75% of them can run 30 yards in under 4 seconds.

And I see no evidence that Gove intends to throw money at the problem. He is correctly highlighting the fact that the poorest children are performing badly. This may well be due to poverty of aspiration, in which case that is what must be fixed. As we have seen time and again at schools that have been turned round, part of the problem is often that teachers have low expectations of pupils from poor backgrounds. Improve the teachers' expectations and pupils' performance improves too. That isn't the only answer and I hope this initiative comes up with a range of approaches to tackle the issue.

[Andrew Bradley]

Why all these nasty and bitchy comments about Carol Vorderman. I stand to be corrected but I think she comes from a 'one parent family' being brought up by her mother.

There have been snide comments about her degree but how many women could study Engineering at Cambridge. I bet she had to work very hard to get to Cambridge - no silver spoons for her.

I take the point re those loan adverts that tend to appear on obscure satellite channels but I think she is wonderful and she could come out canvassing with me any time.

I think it is a good move to have her help on the Countdown to the next election. I would like to see any of these mainly anonymous critics take her on in the numbers if they even know what that is.

Can we form a Conservatives for Carol group please.

[snegchui]

That photo-pic is not very flattering is it? Makes her look well out of sorts. The picture will disrupt the message, show that to the young blighters and they will holler " See, even she thinks the Maths is miserable!!!!"

[The Bishop Swine]

Andrew Bradley

"Why all these nasty and bitchy comments about Carol Vorderman. I stand to be corrected but I think she comes from a 'one parent family' being brought up by her mother."

Your words brought back memories of a young Rick Mayall getting very angry indeed because Vivian had insulted felicity Kendall

"Well, you can just shut up, Vyvyan. You can just about bloomin' well shut up! Cause if you've got anything horrid to say about Felicity Kendall, you can just about bloomin' well say it to me first!! All right?!"

Insert Carol Vorderman, and we have the picture. I agree let's be respectful to Carol she is doing us a favour. Most especially in this celebrity obsessed period.

[Robert Eve]

Can I join the Conservatives for Carol group?

The webcast graphic says TURN ME ON.

Enough said.

[The Bishop Swine]

"The Word Spell and Grammar doesn't get it either, maybe Microsoft programmers are secret subversives which explains a lot"

Oh don't get me going on Microsoft, but your right I think they are extremely subversive and not in a good way for Great Britain. Google is possible worse. Google earth effectively hands the layout of all of our most secret sites to our enemies. If I recorded and then published what google has I would rightly face many years in prison for breaking the official secrets act. No question about it.

[Andrew Bradley]

To The Bishop Swine

You clearly have a sense of humour which is good, particularly on this site on occasions to be honest. Following your line, Felicity Kendall in the Good Life was incredibly sexy- lucky Tom - sorry for being sexist but most men of a certain age would definitely agree.

With an election coming up and funds needed, could David not persuade Carol to perhaps agree to an auction for dinner with her. Despite the negatives on this thread I am sure it would easily raise a 4 figure sum for David's fighting fund to oust Global Gordon - in fact I can absolutely guarantee it - FACT.

I bet DC couldn't believe his luck when the snow came. Instead of going round a school with Carol he could have a snowball fight with her. I freely admit to being not envious but jealous.

Finally what is the meaning of the name 'The Bishop Swine'

[support the strivers]

Mark Fulford, no, actually I was there and you weren't so your audacity in contradicting me is surprising.

We all (about 17 of us) had to stand and recite the tables and noone had a problem with it. Year 2, so most of us were 6 at the time. You were not allowed into year 3 unless you could do it. It isn't hard for a child of that age to do - we were jsut used to chanting out tables... also it doesn't indicate ability, it's just like singing.

[Whitley warrior]

" this spelling checker doesn't pick up on such things and neither its seems do you.
There are plenty of anal retentive's who spend all of their time looking for such appalling errors.

Posted by: The Bishop swine"

The problems are:
Spell checkers don't pick out the wrong word spelt correctly, and
Grammar checkers don't pick up meaning, only suntax, so you could write down the wrong word in the wrong context nd it would still pass through the checkers.

As you say the errors are pretty appalling but you don't need to spend all your time looking for them, as they leap out of the page at the casual reader.

It is perhaps appropriate on this topic, that a spell checker is blamed for failing to spot spelling, grammar or syntax errors, showing modern reliance on technology rather than well taught use of english grammar. The same is no less true of arithmetic.

On the subject of the Microsoft I couldn't agree more and, quite frankly, the last thin I want is some American corporation trying to teach me English grmmar.

The Russians have birds in orbit, there will be nothing on Google earth that they haven't already got (better) images of.

[The Bishop Swine]

Andrew you ask:

"Finally what is the meaning of the name 'The Bishop Swine'"

I am lost for an explanation, I started posting as the Rev Smurf and then switched to Bishop Swine, although I do often mess about with it a little as in Bishop sWINe, so I suppose its the hidden WIN that is important. I do draw a lot on Christian Morality but I hope I'm not religious. I think we can gain a lot of strength from our traditional values.

[The Bishop Swine]

Whitley warrior:

"the last thin I want is some American corporation trying to teach me English grmmar"

In fact Typos have been with us since the invention of the press. Most errors by most people, can be put down to a lack of either the time, or effort in proof reading.As for grammar, well its not an exact science is it?

"they leap out of the page at the casual reader."

If only that was true, there would be utterly perfect spelling and grammar, on this and all Internet sites.

[kobe bryant shoes]

Yooo great job with this post! LOL it did something for me.
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