Cameron accuses Brown of incompetence and arrogance at PMQs

EDITORIAL VERDICT: An unmemorable PMQs. Unfocused questions from David Cameron.

Highlights, not verbatim:

12.12pm: Nick Clegg reminds Brown of various broken promises. He accuses the Prime Minister of being a "say anything, do nothing" politician.  [Alan Duncan is overheard repeatedly saying "a very bad hair day" during the Liberal Democrat leader's questions].

12.09pm: This is a government that gets its facts wrong and never apologises, says David Cameron. Incompetence plus arrogance equals two million unemployed.  Brown responds by quoting a previous speech by David Cameron in favour of lower regulation. His judgment is consistently wrong, he says.

12.07pm: Does the PM agree, says David Cameron, with Ed Balls that we are in the worst economic shape for 100 years? The Prime Minister doesn't answer the question but says the Conservative Party opposed the rise in child benefit, in pensions, in infrastructure spending and of a cut in VAT.

12.05pm: No apology about boom and bust. No apology about Britain's deep recession. The bankers apologise.  Why won't the Prime Minister apologise for appointing this man to a senior post? [The Speaker issues a stern warning to David Cameron for another use of "You" towards the Prime Minister].

12.02pm: Does the PM not accept, says David Cameron, that he was guilty of a serious error of judgment in appointing a man to the FSA - Sir James Crosby - who may have fired a HBOS whistleblower? Gordon Brown urges the Conservative Party not to rush to judgment.

Noon: Sir James Crosby has resigned from the FSA. As Nick Robinson notes on BBC1, there are lots of just-in-time-for-PMQs resignations on Wednesday mornings!

Tim Montgomerie

Comments

[RichardL]

Fantastic summary by DC.

I've stopped listening to Brown - all I hear is: "Lie, Tractor, Lie"

[josh]

Any one else notice that 'Cameron' goes bright Red every time he hears a statement he doesn't like? I have observed him doing this on a few occasions. He does it a lot at his monthly repositioning conference when asked awkward questions.

[RichardJ]

WHEN WILL SOMEBODY BRING UP THE EXPENSES ISSUE?!

[Tommy]

Am I the only person to have noticed that David Cameron is losing his hair at an alarming speed?

[Iain]

The most devastating question was put by the Conservative MP asking why someone who had been associated with Lichtenstein tax avoiding banking had been appointed to Financial Industries Board to look after tax payers interests.

Browns desperate reply was that he was just 'acting Chairman' as if that makes it all OK!

[Andrew]

Josh - I agree totally. He went bright red at Mondays monthly press conference when asked to clarify if he claimed expenses for his constituency home - which he does!.
He also went bright red on Monday when he maybe rather foolishly confirmed he would welcome bankers bonuses as "funds in" to the Tory Party if bankers had a bonus and wanted to spend it on contributing to the Party - it was a gaffe that I am suprised no one has picked up on - he realised his error and went bright red.I felt DC was average at best today - Brown deliberately tried to rile him so that he loses focus and today was a case in point.
Personally I dont think asking 6 straight questions works as well as maybe 4 then 2...it would give him time to sit down and think a little and maybe follow Clegg as and when he lands a punch!

[josh]

Iain,

I quite agree with you. It reminded us that the Lord Ashcroft question is still to be answered.

[Jack Stone]

Thought Cameron had a very good PMQ`s. Think he got his points over well and really Gordon Brown just repeated the same thing he did week after week.Brown is really out of his depth at PMQ`s as he just doesn`t seem to have the ability to depart from his set answers.

[Malcolm Redfellow]

The ever pacific iain Dale twitters on:
"Gutted to be missing PMQs today. Cameron needs to go for the kill. Slit Brown's political throat, and then slit it again."
Oh, how elegant! How eloquent! How democratic!

Were this the Home of the Braves and the Land of the Free he would currently be expecting a visit from the FBI.

And, yes, Cameron was crap. Clegg wasn't much better (watch the repeat and note Vince's closed eyes for evidence).

[strapworld]

I thought Cameron was quite hysterical. He should calm down, be less hurried in his delivery, be over polite, (that is as damning as his present YOU),

I keep saying that Cameron should learn from Hague, and ask six different questions BUT in a two or three first then four or three later!

Such a tactic would have Brown going through his notes and making a complete hash of it!

BUT I cannot stress enough. Cameron must act the statesman now. The Prime Minister in waiting. The obvious choice for the people. The cold calculating leader!

[Tristan Downing]

Gordon Brown also boasted having more people in prison now than in 1997. How is this a good thing? Is it his aim to just lock people up? Surely it shows two things, there are more people in prison because there are more people committing crimes (due to rising serious crime rate and rising population), and there are more crimes (possibly around 3000 according to some).

[The Bishop Swine]

"Am I the only person to have noticed that David Cameron is losing his hair at an alarming speed?"

Well that's encouraging, after all you would expect an Alpha Male to have gallons of Testosterone pumping around his body. Dihydrotestosterone is a bi-product of Testosterone, and causes baldness BTW.
Most likely he is sprouting hairs in places you cannot see.

[m dowding]

It was Mandy what done it! (Crosby).

[Andrew]

Jack - dont mean to be disrespectful but DC did'nt have a good PMQ's - in fact I cant remember the last time he did???...

Brown sets a trap that DC continually falls in to - thats why I think DC needs to wise up and split his 6 questions like MH and WH (both had far more impact against Bliar and Brown respectively)than DC does...

DC simply gets agitated when Brown does'nt answer - loses focus and ends up being just as irritating as Brown....

Its not rocket science surely to devise a different style of questioning that will force and illicit a more open response....Brown at the moment is simply able to side-step with statistics....

The danger in my opinion is DC seems to lack gravitas and the longer this goes on i.e PMQ in this style the more people stop seeing DC as new and innovative and start to think well actually he has had 3 years he still cant crack Brown so why should we vote for him....

PMQ is an irrelavance yet its not an irrelevance...its SUBLIMINAL....and the tone and body language often far outweigh the actual verbal sparring..

Time for DC to try a totally different tack IMHO...

(Actually do you remember the last time DC did have a good PMQ's.....Baby P....he got Brown off subject and showed up Brown as lacking compassion....for one week alone maybe try something NOT economic....there is plenty to choose from!

[Tristan Downing]

The Bishop Swine:
Luckily politics is one of the only areas of life where baldness isn't a crippling social disability!

[Anand]

PMQ's is no longer fit for purpose. It stopped being a platform to ask the prime minister questions many years ago.

Now it's used as a stage for a giant food fight where the proverbial pig feed is political tractor stats and one-upmanship.

Cameron would be better served just sending a bucket load of Written Questions in and publishing the answers on a website/broadcasting them in a press conference.

[RichardJ]

"Am I the only person to have noticed that David Cameron is losing his hair at an alarming speed?"

I would if I had to face Brown every week.

[The Baldy Swine]

"The Bishop Swine:
Luckily politics is one of the only areas of life where baldness isn't a crippling social disability!"

I believe you exaggerate somewhat. I have been balding since I hit 19, but its not had any impact that I am aware of. Other than the odd bit of teasing.

[Steve Tierney]

Alternatively, he could learn a thing or two about economics and not have to flounder when Brown throws out this half-baked nonsense that so many people seems to believe.

I've lost count of the amount of times the prime minister used that old chestnut: "I'm sorry I have to give him a lesson in the economy" at Cameron. A lesson in the economy? Don't make me laugh. You'd be as well to take lessons in astronomy from the Flat Earth Society.

[Tristan Downing]

Cameron does really need to mix it up a bit. Get Brown with the ol' switcheroo!
Trip him up with some non-economic issues and then use the rope-a-dope on the economy!

[H Taylor]

Pointless ping pong. Cameron is increasingly ineffective and just plain rude in a very petty, juvenile way. He needs to up his game considerably from this predictable flim flam every week when the country is in such dire straits.

[Andrew]

agreed Tristan...

the other aspect I find irritating and I'm a Tory member by the way is the fact that Cameron seems to have one aim at PMQ's....thats to make Osborne sat next to him smile and guff....

IT DOES'NT LOOK STATESMANLIKE!

The bigger problem is when Clarke sits next to Osborne looking like a stasteman allowing Brown to use his shadow shadow chancellor pun.....god forbid John Redwood sits next to Clarke one week as shadow shadow shadow Chancellor!....

Its subliminal as I've said before but maybe Hague - when he is free!!...Grayling,Gove and Grieve etc need more prominence occasionally!....

otherwise it looks like a "I sat next to teacher again" type situation"!

[Adam]

Cameron accuses Brown of incompetence and arrogance at PMQs, Brown accuses Cameron of doing nothing. How does this benefit me as a voter and struggling in the downturn? Any wonder voter turnout is so low and people are disinterested!

[christina Speight]

This is a very superficial account with a skewed judgement.

I’ve just watched P M Qs and Cameron roasting Brown over Sir James Crosby, who, being unmasked as the man who ruined HBOS, was appointed by Brown to the key regulatory body, the FSA. Cameron said everybody else is apologising - why is Brown not doing so? Brown had so answer and floundered.

[gezmond007]

I,ve said it before and I,'ll risk saying it again before I get slammed on here and accused of being a hairy troll who sleeps under a bridge.

Daveboy needs to stop shouting , being rude and objectionable and acting more statesmanlike rather than a spoilt little boy who can't get his own way.

Then you see the Tory benches throwing their hands up and down laughing and shouting. People are losing their jobs and they treat it as a big joke.

It is even coming across and was mentioned on the politics show by Andrew Neil. People are getting fed up with it , week in week out.

[Ross Warren]

well although I might get criticised for saying so D.C. & G.O. look increasingly smug.

"Then you see the Tory benches throwing their hands up and down laughing and shouting. People are losing their jobs and they treat it as a big joke."

Indeed its not a very well advertisement for our democracy.I suspect that PM-Q's turns off more people than it inspires. For those of us who play the political game in one form or another its great sport, but like Test match cricket it a really boring if you are not a fan.

[Jamal Akhbar]

Dave dun it again. The idiot replayed the tractors up stuff again. Ignore the Labour Trolls, they get paid to do this stuff (like the bank-buster mates of Labour). Not long now till the election: just hope there is a country left at the end to belong to, and not just a dead economy populated with uber-chavs.

[Mark]

Goodness knows what PMQs some of those commenting here were watching, paid Labour trolls/Ukip nutters aside!

Cameron drove the old stake further into Brown's ever shrinking heart. Good on the fella!

[Pat Guide]

PMQs has turned into a load of old testicles.

Cameron never mentioned anything about MPs on the take - is that because they are all at it and he couldn't afford to upset the apple cart.

I can't wait for the June elections and the next General Election.

Change is coming ladies and gentleman and I feel that the three tired old parties might not be part of the future. The Israeli Labour party was hammered into the dust last night by the Israeli far right parties and it could happen hear as well.

[josh]

OH MY GOD, I AM ACTUALLY IN SHOCK AT THIS;

It appears that Conservative Central changed wiki in order prove 'Cameron' correct.The lengths that 'Cameron' will go to is frightening.

Has Cam made a Tit(ian) of himself?

This may sound crass, but it's true.

After the to-ing and fro-in at PMQs over the exact age of painter and seminal Gordo-influence Titian, it appears that the Tories have been upto some Wiki-manipulation.

Cam taunted Brown by saying he had got Titian's age wrong, "You told us the other day you were like Titian aged 90. The fact is Titian died at 86!"

No sooner did PMQs finish, but at 12.34 the Wiki entry on Titian was changed to make him younger- the birthdate was brought forward.

How do we know this? Well the ip address for the change 194.203.158.97 - which seems to be that of CCHQ.

A quick search on iplocation shows that the above address is listed Conservative Central Office, London, UK.

What I can't quite understand is this: if you are going to try and manipulate Wikipedia (and lets be honest political hacks here and in the US have a long history of this) - why not do it with a bit more skill? Why use CCO ip address instead an obscure individual shell version? It's not just crass, it's politically dumb.

FOOTNOTE: The Tories have form on this kind of thing, of course. Channel 4 News found them out a few years back trying to amend the wiki entry for warthog poo. I kid you not.

3PM UPDATE: CCHQ sources tell me it was "an over enthusiastic member of staff" who was responsible for the amendment and the operation was totally unauthorised.

330PM UPDATE This gets curiouser and curiouser (and forgive me but we all need a bit of light relief from the bankers). A close check of the Wiki history shows that Titian was originally listed as having an age of 91 (born1485, died 1576), Then some bod from Sutton changed it at 1229pm to 88 (born 1488 died 1576) and THEN the Tory official changed it - not to Cameron's claim of 86 - but to 82 (born 1490 died 1572). Poor old Titian lost nine years in a matter of minutes.

[David Belchamber]

I was quite happy to miss PMQs today as on recent form it only creates heat and no light, but I imagine that Gezmond007 was quite correct in saying:

"Daveboy needs to stop shouting , being rude and objectionable and acting more statesmanlike rather than a spoilt little boy who can't get his own way".

I too wish that he would move around a bit with his questions; he is very predictable; why doesn't he use the material Michael Fallon did in his Platform article or challenge him on his dodgy stats?

[Ross Warren]

"Cameron drove the old stake further into Brown's ever shrinking heart. Good on the fella!"

Smug and maybe not as dignified as he could be. Brown is fading fast, tick tock.

If it wasn't so painful it would be fun. A unsupported scottish PM in need of the broomstick.

What makes me desperately sad inside, is that we have to wait for him to throw in the towel. We have how long before he goes? He will not even be fondly remembered, that's not so much legacy as a grave. 3 Million unemployed and an economy shredded.
When will he go?

It's it time for a Labour lad to chance his hand?

Is there no executioner for brown?

who will greatly dare?

[Alan Douglas]

I'm so pleased PMQs is on a Wednesday.

It reminds me to put my rubbish out.

Alan Douglas

[Jonathan]

I'm sorry to say this, but I must agree with many of the posters above. Considering the mess we are in, DC isn't doing a good job at PMQ's.

Take today for example, the line to take with Crosby, isn't to suggest that he might be guilty (this gives Brown an easy get out of jail card, i.e. wait for the enquiry) but to ask if Brown knew of the allegations before he appointed him to the FSA.

If yes - then ask why you appointed someone to this sensitive position, when you must have known that these allegations would be repeated. What the FSA needed was stability and credibility at the top. By making this appointments you have guaranteed the opposite...will you apologize for this error in judgement?

If no – why didn’t you insure the appropriate checks were made? Given the national crisis in the financial sector and its implications for the wider economy, this was a massive appointment and you flunked it. Are you going to apologize for not making the necessary checks?

If no answer is forthcoming – why can’t the PM be straight with people? In my capacity as Leader of the Opposition, I have asked a perfectly straight forward and simple question. Where you aware (yes or no) of the allegations previously levelled against Mr. Crosby before you appointed him?

A good follow-up question would the Glen Moreno / UKFI question i.e. why have you appointed a man with known links to tax avoidance schemes in Lichtenstein to head UKFI? Isn’t this another example of the PM appointing the wrong people to the wrong jobs?

In question three – you could then lead into the ‘headless chicken analogy’. The problem with this PM is that he makes policy/appointments on the hoof – often for short-term political gain, without thinking about the long-term practicalities. You do no need 20/20 vision to see that Crosby and Moreno were bad appointments. Equally anybody with an ounce of common sense would have fixed the roof while the sun was shinning or did the PM really come to believe his own rhetoric? Abolish boom and bust. How utterly preposterous that sound bite feels today with 2 million unemployed and the country heading towards depression. Yet, still the PM hasn’t learnt his lesson, his GVN churn out policy announcements and rescue packages almost on a daily basis…….

Cameron should then sit-down. Re-group and have another go at Brown (on a different topic) latter. Perhaps, he could co-ordinate his attack with a few planted questions of his own. For example, Brown was asked today about the # of illegal security workers deported. He gave a poor answer! This would have been a good opportunity for Dave to spring to his feet...

Tory HQ needs to be more imaginative. At the moment Brown can anticipate the attcak lines and consequently he neuters them.

[josh]

'challenge him on his dodgy stats?'

Check the post just above yours.

[Ross Warren]

"'challenge him on his dodgy stats?'"

All stats should be assumed faulty until proven otherwise.

[David Belchamber]

Josh, I am afraid that Titian's real age is of little concern to me when surrounded by the economic chaos for which Gordon Brown is largely to blame but for which he takes no responsibility.

The treasury select committee yesterday highlighted the FSA's total incompetence in regulating the banks, when it was Brown who set that arrangement up.

I am more concerned about Brown's deception in changing the cost-of-living index to the CPI which omits many of the main items that affect an ordinary person's cost of living.

I also want to find out how many people are not currently employed in this country for one reason or another but like the dodgy violent crime stats, we just don't know what the true figures are.

I also understand that some review body is trying to tighten up on the problems caused by postal votes but Labour won't go along with their proposals, because it is scared of losing even more votes as a consequence.

[josh]

David,

The age might be of little concern to you and I feel the same. However, when 'Cameron' goes to the length of changing the facts online then it does matter as it shows his lack of integrity, it is a deception whichever way you look at it.

[john]

Get a grip editor. You've been overrun by trolls today.
"Josh", "Andrew" and Co distort the genuine response to this site and need to be exterminated like the pests they re.

[josh]

John,

If you do not have the intelligence to engage in debate then please do not resort to petty insults.

I have been posting on this site for sometime and enjoy the banter and the debate.

I don't come here to cause trouble and if you look through my past posts you will see that I do not always agree with the Government and their actions.

I hope that the mods and especially Jonathan with whom I had email contact earlier in the week will not ban me.

[Mark]

Josh, off to the Brown bunker with you. They are filling the trough for your evening feed as we speak.

[James Maskell]

I couldnt care less about Titian. I missed PMQs though it looks like I didnt miss much. Pity since the economy is going down the shitter.

[josh]

Already eaten Mark. I got an invite to Derek Conway's house where the trough is always full. hehe

[T . England]

I still fail to see why Cameron tries to get Brown to admit his failures, Brown, even if his deluded brain could understand that he has made mistakes, would never be able to admit them anyhow, this is good, no! Fantastic in its own way, because we ALL make mistakes, after all, we are only human & not being able to admit that you have made mistakes is beyond belief, not human! Even Browns lefty hero Obama admitted recently he had screwed up, I take it Brown thinks he is better than that!

Can’t Cameron call him, Mr Thinks his perfect, & not smirk or laugh but just smile politely when he says it?

Brown needs to be totally belittled, it’s the only thing he will understand, if Cameron can show him pity in how his incompetence has let him & the country down, what will Brown be able to say, I don’t want your pity?

The main points I would be concentrating on if I were Cameron would be to constantly point out, in a simple way, the endless bad errors of judgement Brown has made, & how the public should really worry about a leader who believes he can do no wrong & has never done any wrong.
This is a serious flaw in someone’s character, this has to be exploited to the fullness.

I know there must be loads of technical things that could be brought up, but don’t think the public want to hear that, the public like watching a good argument they can understand, the saying keep it simple stupid isn’t a saying for nothing!

And as for Tories changing Wiki, like has been said, can’t they learn to use a proxy or two & to change those proxies regular?
Blimey! Some people ;o)

[Terry]

'Josh'.So you good as admit your troll status. Pretty sorry state of affairs for you, stooging for this busted flush of a government. Still, you can alwways have a nice cheap pint at the student bar when your masters unbuckle the leash and allow you home.

[josh]

Terry,

I just enjoy a bit of banter and debate, that's all sir.

[ashley rochdale]

I'm afraid that if we dismiss all criticism as just a couple of ugly trolls causing trouble we will not admit to our own shortcomings - we need to admit Dc had a bad - hair - day - but its just 1 - there will be plenty of times to put Brown down - but we need a more specific issue - eg please reassess our policy on Europe - we need clear blue water - we must commit to withdraw and stick up for Britain - this would be a definete vote winner.
What does worry me more than DCs weakish performance is cleggs performance - he does - and it hurts me to say it - appear to be getting better by the week - he needs to be stopped - and stop love bombing the yellow peril!

[ashley rochdale]

I'm afraid that if we dismiss all criticism as just a couple of ugly trolls causing trouble we will not admit to our own shortcomings - we need to admit Dc had a bad - hair - day - but its just 1 - there will be plenty of times to put Brown down - but we need a more specific issue - eg please reassess our policy on Europe - we need clear blue water - we must commit to withdraw and stick up for Britain - this would be a definete vote winner.
What does worry me more than DCs weakish performance is cleggs performance - he does - and it hurts me to say it - appear to be getting better by the week - he needs to be stopped - and stop love bombing the yellow peril!

[Richard]

Brown is enept.

I have been having a peek at the enemy,over at Labourhome,

READ HIS,FROM A LABOUR VOTER,IT'S BRILLIANT.

You're way off course there. Governments don't win, they lose. The time was up for Major in 1997. If he'd have abolished income tax and increased statutory holidays to 300 days he'd still have lost. The time is up for Labour now. Cameron could start wearing a red nose and stand up in Parliament and urinate on the Mace whilst singing 'The East Is Red' and whipping Osbourne with nettles, it will make not a jot of difference. Times up. People just get tired and that's all their is to it.

[Malcolm Dunn]

Very poor PMQ's. Brown truly and utterly lamentable but DC pretty poor too. Stop going for crass little soundbites and be a statesman David.
And why oh why no questions about political corruption? Have we got as much to hide as Labour?

[Richard]

Brown has lost the plot,the man is looking completely out of his depth,all he ever says to any question is,the Tories will do nothing,ask him any question,that is the answer he gives.

You would think with the opinion polls the way they are,he would realise it isn't working but,no he just carries on regardless,he is becoming a sad joke.

[Steve Crowther]

I'm sorry that Cameron's Titian barb missed. I know hundreds of people who were just waiting for him to prove that Gordon Brown isn't absolutely perfect - AND DOESN'T EVEN KNOW WHEN TITIAN DIED - so they could switch to voting Tory. Shame. Still, try him with a tongue-twister next week, Dave, that should swing it. Or conkers.

[T . England]

DO NOT FEED THE TROLL

[chris southern]

The key is to hit him with questions that are not about the smokescreen the labour/bbc is creating.
ask questions that will make other people start to question.

Ask questions that the question his cabinets actions indirectly.
basic tactics, hide your real attack and set up your enemy.

By doing this your encouraging the public to question his actions, your encouraging other parties to start attacking from different angles.
You can only defend for so long when you are being attacked from all fronts.

This strategy isn't a quick short term popularity contest, it's about destroying somebody, both mentaly and politicly.
no quarter given, for when he makes a mistake it will be big and blatant.

[Super Blue]

Josh,

Your rather verbose post about Titian is word-for-word identical to Paul Waugh's ES blog - and he didn't even attribute it. Will you sue him for plagiarism?

[Leo Enticknap]

Josh writes:

"I quite agree with you. It reminded us that the Lord Ashcroft question is still to be answered."

Which I fear is why the Conservative leadership has been forced to refrain from letting Jacqui Smith have it with both barrels.

That's been the most depressing story this week IMHO. Not only is a cabinet minister outed with her snout in the trough, but the one responsible for law enforcement to boot ... and yet only one newspaper runs the story prominently. Theft and corruption among our political class is now so deeply embedded that effectively, it's no longer considered newsworthy.

[pp]

Just watching the repeat on 'bbc parliament'.

You really need to watch harman and darling.

Harman stares into space, darling just looks brown up and down aparantly in disbeleif that this man 'brown' is what is leading his party...

Brown is clearly a 'strong' man - a normal man presiding over such a disaster would have had a nervous breakdown. However for the good of the country, lets hope he has one soon, given the pasivity of his front bench, it is probably the quickest exit the public can hope for...

[Matt]

"I just enjoy a bit of banter and debate, that's all sir."

Or 'trolling for fun' as it is otherwise known, Josh.