Grayling gives first big speech on law and order as nation braces itself for a 'summer of rage'

Chris Grayling gave a speech earlier today on Britain's crime-ridden society.

It included two stories...

"Let me tell you a story about life in Britain today. It was told me by the father of a serving soldier, who will be risking his life for us in Afghanistan this spring. He was home on leave and was out in his local town centre when he was the victim of an unprovoked attack from behind by two youths. He was able to hold them off and the police were called. He was left badly bruised after what was a completely unpremeditated attack. The two young men were arrested, but then extraordinarily they were let off with a caution. That's life in Britain today. A nation where we appear so used to a violent assault of this kind that police only deem it fit for a caution. And where the incidence of an attack like this is routine and not a rare exception. I don't think there could be any clearer example of the fact that our society desperately needs change."

"Let me tell you another story. Of a visit I made to a run down area of Toxteth. To a family living in a seriously run-down block of flats. Two small girls and their mother. And every night, almost without fail, a gang of local teenagers gathered on the staircase outside their flats to take drugs. Leaving a state of debris and chaos around them. Breaking down doors to get there. And leaving a very scared family living in a state of misery. And I left the building after talking to them with one dominant thought in my mind. Why is this being allowed to happen?"

...and damning facts...

• "Violent crime is up almost 80% under Labour. Nearly 1.1 million violent crimes were recorded last year - half a million more than in 1998-99.
• Robbery is up 27% under Labour.
• Criminal damage is up past 1 million offences - that's nearly 3000 incidents each day.
• There are over 400 serious knife crimes a week - 22,000 in one year.
• Fatal stabbings up by a third.
• Gun crime has nearly doubled under Labour - a gun crime was committed every hour in England and Wales in 2007-8.
• Injuries from gun crime are up almost four fold."

Mr Grayling, the Shadow Home Secretary, reviews what the Tories already intend to do on family, welfare reform and schools choice in order to mend the broken society.  He then sets out other actions relevant to his new brief:

• Powers to impose curfews on troublesome youngsters for operation outside school hours;
• Stronger licensing laws;
• An end to cautioning for violent and serious crimes.

Read the full speech here.

We are entering a time when law and order are going to rocket up the agenda.  The front page of today's Guardian warns of a 'summer of rage'.  Police intelligence suggests a mood change within public protests and a serious danger of "people who have lost their jobs, homes or savings becoming "footsoldiers" in a wave of potentially violent mass protests."  Chris Grayling's mettle will be tested very soon.

Tim Montgomerie

Comments

[DCMX]

Grayling's measures are pathetically small.

[Richard]

This is a good start, but no more than that. If we are to turn this country round much more needs to be done to send out a very strong message that people, no matter what their age, will not be allowed to get away with committing crime and that the punishments handed out will more than match the crimes committed.

If someone is arrested on a Friday night for, say, being drunk and disorderly, they should spend the night in the cells and then face the judge the next day and the punishment should be harsh.

We also need to do much more in schools to punish bad behaviour.

When members of the public step it to tackle crime, they should be able to do so without the fear of being punished themselves.

When prison sentences are handed down, those convicted should have to serve the whole of their sentence and life is prison should be made far tougher than it already is.

[Malcolm Dunn]

Given the numbers involved ending cautions for violent crimes is not small DCMX.Need more detail though.

[Helen]

History tells one that footsoldiers in violent protests are those who have never had jobs, homes or savings. It might be different this summer in Britain but I would be very surprised. Remember the anti-polltax riots? Most of those arrested were from animal rights organizations, I recall. Others had never been employed. They didn't like the idea of having to start paying any kind of tax and, anyway, had very little to do with their time and a bit of aggro is always good fun. The same it true for people who join gangs. Are the Conservatives going to start thinking seriously about what is wrong any time soon?

[Serf]

Labour,
Soft on crime, soft on the causes of crime.

[Strawberries and Bananas]

Thank God I'm emigrating. It's a shame other people can't do it too. Why anybody would choose to live here anymore is beyond me.

[David_at_Home]

I agree with DCMX and Richard but I would put it much more strongly.

The modern British state is seen by many as corrupt and skewed. For example how do serving soldiers, newly returned from Afghanistan, feel when Binyam Mohamed is welcomed into our country complete with a personal aircraft, a personal doctor and a bevy of taxpayer funder "Human Rights" lawyers?

The sad fact is that many of our people despise the political and financial establishments and deeply mistrust the criminal justice system, particularly the politicised police.

I fear we may be in for much more than a single "Summer of Rage". It is quite possible that our depressed economic state, compounded by a much reduced sector of productive industry and frequently dysfunctional state education system, may last several years, perhaps be even a generation. If so,the legitimacy of our institutions might be called into question more seriously than any time since 1688.

We may, of course, be saved by a dedicated group of determined, intelligent and ruthless people but, if so, these are yet to emerge. Whatever happens, I do not expect to die in a country which has much resemblance to the nation into which I was borne.

[John Broughton]

I see the redirection of police priorities as part of the problem.

More effort seems to be devoted to persecuting people taking pictires that might include a police man/woman, arresting those accused of trying to stop crime, obstructing political protest, persecuting motorists etc.

While it might seem like a cry for the return of a golden age the local bobby on the beat knew the people and the trouble makers and could deal with them accordingly.

Surveillance cameras may well "catch" the offender in the act but they do nothing to help the victim or prevent the crime. There is much that can be done to make our country safer but there does not seem to be a significant political will. Hopefully Chris Grayling is moving in the right direction!

[D iversity]

Maybe Chris Grayling has a personal need to divert attention fron expenses, etc.; but does he needto saddle the Party with policies like curfews for kids and stronger licensing laws? Any one with a memory knows that those don't work.

[Pat Guide]

Chris Grayling is full of it.

Here he is trying to deflect attention away fom his £100,000 expenses claim.

The Tories, Labour and the Lib Dems and there three party trick and failure to listen and act for the British electorate are the reaon that people are angry.

People are losing their jobs and their homes and the last thing they want is the likes of Grayling pontificating to them.

[basementcat]

Be careful not to forget that the Conservatives are a party of liberty and freedom from a burdensome state. Cameron himself said so in his interview with Iain Dale in this month's Total Politics.

I say this only because while criminals must be brought to justice for their crimes, we must be careful not to restrict the liberty of the innocent in the process.

[rugfish]

The Daily Telegraph says;

Quote:
"The long-term social consequences of unfettered immigration have not been considered by Labour. But those consequences will be profound. If immigration continues at its present rate, Britain's population is projected to increase by 18 million over the next 30 years. The impact on public services, on the environment and on our society as a whole will be enormous. And yet Labour has no plans to place a cap on the number of immigrants allowed into Britain. No wonder the British electorate, which was never consulted about the matter, is deeply unhappy".

http://tinyurl.com/bp84ln

I'd say "deeply unhappy" is a gross understatement. What the Labour Policy is doing, is destroying the very fabric of our society. Our local capabilities to place youngsters and men into work. Our natural ability to skill our workforce. Our ability to buy homes, to save, to prosper as a people. To upset and possibly rid us of the remnants of our culture. It's a perfect recipe for crass government and a death knell to our indigenous populace with all of it's vitality and cultural heritages gained over a thousand years. It is sinking the state to the point where we cannot thrive as a people because we have to 'compete' against people who are helping through not much fault of their own, to destroy these things.

There's an economic side to this too and again it's Labour's fault. The housing, together with immigrant numbers requiring extra shelter, has been lax yet the growth in residential ownership buy Buy to Let developers seeking to gain profits in a higher rental market due to immigration overflow, has led to an upward spiral in property prices which indigenous people cannot afford. The government buys up the stocks and rents them out to immigrants. Consequently, we have 5 million of our people waiting for social housing rather then looking to buy, and a dearth of youngsters with no hope of ever gaining a home. This will dissolve families. It will and is and has, created manifest indebtedness from which many millions of people will never recover as they too are thrown out of their homes by bailiffs. This will lead to an even bigger problem than the government can ever imagine. Not only are all of the above things happening now, but they will get far worse as millions of people become 'subprime' and 'toxic' and a risk to lenders if and when they ever pick themselves up again. They will be given poor quality loans at that time IF they ever bother to look to buy another home of their own. Meanwhile, if immigration is not stopped and taken into decline, then we'll see immigrants in better housing and the indigenous people in social housing and living like tramps.

Labour should resign because no one can stand for it any longer. I wouldn't blame people if they went out on the streets and started rioting to be honest over this appalling government, and yet I hear David Cameron and his politically correct party not saying a word about it. Does he think we don't know. That we don't see it. That we can't tell when things are wrong? - BOTH parties need to be kicked to hell and back for the state they've made by action or inaction of my country.

http://rugfish.blogspot.com/2009/02/immigration-in-uk-making-us-unhappy.html#links

[Jamal Akhbar]

Zanulabor knew this was coming, this was what they prepared their illegal detention laws and politicised the legal and police system for. This is why they are so keen on the War on Terror as a distraction from their systemic, engineered looting and destruction of the former United Kingdom.

[Patsy Sergeant]

Some of us have been warning about the possibility of civil unrest for at least six months, and I think that some people thought we were just being alarmist!

The longer the powers-that-be deny or face up to the fact that people are angry, and getting angrier, the more difficult it will be to deal with, and create solutions!

[Gnosis]

I think greything has a bloody cheek,yesterday i read a story about him which said he is taking money from a residence he hardly ever visits,people and glass houses Mr Greyling!!!

[Sally Roberts]

I was at this speech this morning and felt it was full of good common sense. The Police at present are unable to do their job properly of detecting and fighting crime - they are too busy being expected to be social workers! This has to change. Two points which stood out for me were the pledge to end the 24-hour drinking culture which, far from creating a "cafe culture" has increased the level of yobbery and low-level crime and the plan to impose curfews on troublesome young people. During questions he also gave what I thought was a thoughtful answer to a question on capital punishment. He said that quite apart from the fact that we would not be able to re-introduce the death penalty for the murder of Police Officers (as the questioner wanted) because of European legislation, he himself was against it because Capital Punishment can never be reversed in the event of a miscarriage of justice.

[Patsy Sergeant]

John Broughton @ 15.46 - 'Surveillance cameras may well 'catch' the offender in the act but they do nothing to help the victim or prevent the crime.'

John is not only that - IF the CPS agrees that the case can go to court, even cases of violent assault may only get a fine (which apparently they don't pay anyway!!).

So the whole exercise is worse than useless, and extremely costly for us the taxpayer, and not just in money!

[Matthew Cain]

I think it was a terrible speech that would result in a dreadful policy, leaving victims and communities in a worse state than now.

http://blog.matthewcain.co.uk/tory-policy-on-troublemakers-is-hopeless/

[Sally Roberts]

Matthew Cain has rather missed the point which is of course that the more young people are taken off "the conveyor belt to crime" by a better education and a stronger family life, the fewer will be in need of sanction! This was the reason that Michael Gove, Theresa May and Maria Miller were on the platform this morning - to outline the importance of these other factors. Mr Cain (who is a Labour supporter for those who care to take a look at his blog) is of course being selective - as he of course has every right to do!

[pp]

I have to agree with some of the others, that I would rather have seen some answers on additional cost allowance first.

This isn't a flippant remark - many people do 'what they think they can get away with' - whether it be abusing perks, or stealing a purse - the same characters, different circumstances.

Regarding 'curfews' - how will it be policed? officers checking on the individuals? if there are that many officers about, maybe there wouldn't be the anti-social behaviour in the first place!

It looks to me like a speech that could have been written anytime in the past decade. He might have well have said 'I will be tough on crime and tough on the causes of crime' - and we can see how effective the original speaker of those words was...

[Sally Roberts]

" 'I will be tough on crime and tough on the causes of crime' - and we can see how effective the original speaker of those words was..."

Precisely how Chris Grayling began, pp! He quoted Blair and showed how utterly ineffective Labour had been in the past 11 years.

[Robert Eve]

As each day passes I am convinced that I will not be able to vote Conservative at the next General Election. It really saddens me.

The party needs to get much tougher and commit to leave the EU. Maybe Dave will change into the person we need after the vote but my doubts about this are huge.

There are often complaints about the Eurosceptics hijacking all the threads but until we leave the EU we won't be able to sort our country out.

[Alex Swanson]

# Gun crime has nearly doubled under Labour - a gun crime was committed every hour in England and Wales in 2007-8.
# Injuries from gun crime are up almost four fold."

Can I point out again - as I have so often here - that the policies which have so spectacularly failed in this area are still exactly identical across all three major political parties, as they have been for years, ie, to persecute the law-abiding.

If you want to change he outcome, you need to change the policy. Keep the policy (as the Conservatives plan to do) and the result will be the same as well.

[John Anslow]

he himself was against it because Capital Punishment can never be reversed in the event of a miscarriage of justice.

Exactly the same argument could be used against having armed police. The difference is, however, that when a bobby shoots the wrong man, he is hauled up in court and might have his career ruined. When a judge sentences an innocent man to hang, he might have trouble sleeping for a while.

Besides, was there ever any doubt that Brady and Hindley were guilty? Or Nilsen, or Sutcliffe, or the Wests or Shipman ……………?

I’m not particularly in favour of capital punishment, but I don’t think you can oppose it with an intellectual argument.

[Dontmakemelaugh in Oz Down Under]

During questions he also gave what I thought was a thoughtful answer to a question on capital punishment. He said that quite apart from the fact that we would not be able to re-introduce the death penalty for the murder of Police Officers (as the questioner wanted) because of European legislation, he himself was against it because Capital Punishment can never be reversed in the event of a miscarriage of justice.

Posted by: Sally Roberts | February 23, 2009 at 17:19

Sally: Quoting that capital punishment is against EU legislation (what isn't?) and stating that it can never be reversed is a cop out.

The rebuff to that weak excuse is DNA.
Corporal punishment needs to be re-introduced in schools. It wont be under the oddly and whimsically named Conservative Party or by any other of the incumbents blocking up the HoC

It would now appear that the more governments change the more things stay as they are. Brussels rules OK!

[snegchui]

Two comments:
Extra funding will be needed for Special Schools, mini-borstals whatever you wish to call them and teachers must have the right to exclude immediately trouble starts. At present intermediate troublemakers disrupt, but are not excluded, as there is nowhere to go. Ins so doing they are stealing the education rights of those who do wish to learn. Councils and Heads by keeping their bonuses up by minimising the number of exclusions are stealing from the public fabric, under-delivering their education service and undermining and demoralising teachers who now are part educator, part holding-pen managers. I believe the cost of special schools will repay by upping standards in "ordinary schools" and by intervening much earlier in the trail of individual mischief, gang-joining, gang crime, criminal record, wasted life.
Secondly, it is a flaw in the system that Cautions are never spent. People who get a caution often do not realise they will always turn up on CRB as they are never spent, furthering hindering chances of a job and reforming ones ways. For some offences, it is better to get a courts sentence that expires after a certain number of years.

[Alex Swanson]

when a bobby shoots the wrong man, he is hauled up in court and might have his career ruined

I personally have lost track of the number of times the police have shot people dead in this country when they didn't have to, and cannot recall a single occasion when anyone was punished for it.

[Stuart Crow]

I think there is some sort of danger of unrest as the economy spirals downwards and people increasingly resent the incompetence of a Prime Minister with no mandate.

However, I have become tired of these soundbites from the Police, which at their least pernicious are ill-advised social comment and at their worst, as with this one, sheer panic-mongering.

[pp]

If politics can't stop Brown from selling generations of taxpayer into slavery, isn't direct action the rational action of the public?

As I have observed before - politicians are currently entirely insulated from this mistake of theirs - it is the private sector tax payer who suffers.

To show genuine contrition all MPs should renounce all foreign holidays until the national debt is back at pre-brown levels.

[Ross Warren]

"Some of us have been warning about the possibility of civil unrest for at least six months, and I think that some people thought we were just being alarmist!"

I agree there is a real anger that labour is either completely unaware of, or is trying to ignore. Losing your job has always been a very upsetting event. To make matters worse those losing their jobs right now are being asked to make do on JSA, and is at a rate many third world nations would consider shameful. Add to this an incensing sense of futility and the anger generated by the billions paid to worthless bankers, and we have to beginnings of a powder keg situation that can only worsen. Many degree students will be graduating only to find that the promise of a "good job" was nothing more than Labour spin. These young and energetic people are more likely to take their anger to the streets than other groups. Once there the Anarchists will of course be all to willing to exploit the resentment that Labour so richly deserves. If we get through this summer without significant Riots it will be a miracle.

[Hugh Oxford]

Soft on crime, soft on the causes of crime.

I prefer to swap the nouns in Blair's catchphrases.

"Tough on education, tough on the causes of education".

"Crime, crime, crime".

As a conservative, I would bring back corporal and capital punishment back in an instant, and I would expect the Conservative party to stand on that manifesto.

[C Powell]

Dreadful. We need to claw back the rights Labour have taken away from us. We need the Tories to stand up for our historic rights and liberties. They're meant to be CONSERVATIVES, for God's sake!

What Labour have got wrong is that they have removed our rights in the name of security while doing precisely nothing to give us real security e.g. by letting troublemakers into the country and by not taking action against those who do threaten our security. Precisely the reverse needs to happen i.e. a strong immigration policy / proper police action coupled with the rights we used to have (to trial by jury / not to be locked up etc) rather than the pretend rights under the Human Rights Act and the investigation of nonsense PC crimes coupled with no action against real crimes we now have.

Do the Tories still not understand that there is an open goal on civil liberties, which is theirs for the snatching? People are fed up with Labour's authoritarian state: they understand perfectly well that this is about the state gathering power for itself, that it has sod all to do with protecting us and catching criminals and everything to do with giving the state more power to tax us, harass us and generally make our life a nuisance ("us" being the law-abiding not the criminals).

This meshes perfectly with what the Tories' theme should be: get the state off our backs so that we can live our lives as free citizens and leave the state to do the things which it ought to do, properly. I've spelt it out numerous times on these pages, so have others. Dominic Raab has written a good book on it and even so the Tory front bench seem incapable of understanding this point. I now fear that the Tories (for all their fine words on cancelling ID cards) are just looking forward to using all these authoritarian powers for their own purposes. Well, a bully boy Tory state is, frankly, no improvement on what we have now and if that's what on offer from the Tories (coupled with this pathetic attempt at soundbites), I despair.

Grayling said recently that he was going to focus less on theoretical civil liberties. That shows the shallowness of his thinking: they are not theoretical. The right to privacy is not theoretical - and yet this is being taken away by ID cards, the Contact Database, the proposal to monitor my email traffic and phone calls (what next? Opening my post?). The right not to be spied on by public servants is not a theoretical right. The right to freedom of speech is not a theoretical right. These are real and their degrading by Labour have led to a much worse state and a poorer quality of life and debate than we used to have. And all this has been coupled with a wholesale failure to deal with crime, which does not necessitate all these measures. If Grayling does not understand this then he has no business being a Conservative spokesman on Home affairs.

[Darkinbad the Brightdayler]

"Labour,
Soft on crime, soft on the causes of crime."

True, but inadequate:

Labour: Committing crime, Creating the causes of crime.

In classical oratory, repetition was valued less than assonance in crescendo.

[pp]

Sally - He may have said that, but words is just words. It is action that matters.

I fully accept that it is pretty unreasonable to say that to an opposition, cos their available actions are limited!

However there have been a few 'non-heart felt' sounding 'standard lines' trotted out recently by the front bench, and we still await the EPP withdrawal promise being kept.

I want to see the front bench jumping up and down, as angry as the people are, shouting "you can't saddle the tax payer with private companies debts" - if all our money has effectively been given to failed foreign companies (the banks bad loans) then we won't have the money to do anything at all... A commitment to unwind gordons spending incontinence is a pre-requiste for any action at all.

[Steve Shepherd]

Oh great ... we've just had 3000+ laws added by Labour and Grayling wants to add more.

Curfew for kids? ... who's going to police this? How do we know which kid is which? ID cards? ... you must be joking! How is the police going to catch them in the first place? ... not in Panda cars thats a fact. CCTV? ... no chance, hoodies aren't just a fashion statement.

Tougher licensing laws? You actually belive that this will stop people getting drink? All these years and the politicians have learned nothing.

You think that the predicted demos are just against Labour? Well it isn't ... it's against Parliament and the weakness of all inside and most of all ... criminalisation of the citizens. When is anyone there going to show any real leadership and b#lls? You are all so PC it hurts and none of you dare say boo to a goose.

Whats really frightening is you are giving no alternative to Labour at all and people are turning to the BNP. Yes l said the BNP ... I hear more and more people say that they are going to vote BNP because no-one else speaks for them!

For gods sake, wake up before it's too late!

There are answers but you don't want to hear them

[resident leftie]

For goodness sake, I know how you all enjoy a jolly moral panic with your tea and toast, but why don't you put down the Daily Mail and have a look at the actual crime figures.

http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs08/hosb0708.pdf

The most interesting trend, to me, is the increase in the perceived danger of crime. They ask about the level of crime locally, and then nationally. The local level of crime gives a reasonably clear picture of the actual level of crime, the perceived national level, the fear of crime.

Crime rates climbed from 1981 to about 1995, and have since declined back to their 1981 levels. These figures include the BCS and recorded crime statistics. The murder rate has fallen for five consecutive years.

Of course it's much more convenient for the Tories to pretend that Britain is "broken," and come up with fantastically feeble measures to fix it.

Where the hell is Grayling coming up with these figures?

[Onthejob]

Resident Leftie

you say that actual crime has gone down which i don't doubt but when you break those figures down you have a huge increase in Violent crime. for the majority of people i have no doubt that possibly they never see a criminal or have a problem with crome but at the other end of the scale those who have the misfortune to live on some of the worst estates have nothing but issues with it.

We have a number of estates like it in my town and i can tell you it is not something imagined by the oppostion or by the evil Daily Mail which is the new fallback postion for the liberal left when trying to justify there postion just as perhaps for me it would be left wing Guardian reading tree hugging hippies (resident leftie)

twenty years ago Labour politicians (and their supporters) would have been up in arms to see esates that have become nothing short of ghettos and whilst as with all left wing governments they would have spoken elquontly about the problems they would do nothing to solve it as has happened obver the last few years whilst they talk about making poverty history more and more families are falling into poverty whatever the figures say.

Unless we deal with these pockets of deprivation and rather than government bail out real social change which gives people some pride back in there life we will continue to slip into civil disorder and have a growth of extremist parties i have said before here to many people the recession doesn't matter because whilst we have all enjoyed greater wealth they have been living a recession/depression for the last 20 years and until we deal with that problem anything else is just a plaster on a crack.

Finally we do now live in a global economy have done for quite a while but where politicians across the country(and parties) have failed is they have not addressed protection for workers of there own countries anduntil the politicians catch up the problem is going to get worse nd tensions will continue to rise. it was only in the late 1970s we woke up to the damage the unions were doing how long will it be until we find a way for globalisation to work

[Ross Warren]

"Whats really frightening is you are giving no alternative to Labour at all and people are turning to the BNP. Yes l said the BNP ... I hear more and more people say that they are going to vote BNP because no-one else speaks for them!"

This is my experience as well. I had wondered if I was just in a hot spot, but I suspect that this pattern is being repeated along the length and breadth of our land. It seems that the P.C. taboo, has finally been completely eroded. Why should people believe the warnings of the big parties when everthing else they say is untrue. I find that many who supported Labour are turning to the BNP because of its family oriented moral stance. It also appeals because of its socialist overtones. I have met a number of ex-Conservatives who say they will vote BNP at the European elections because they expect them to win a few seats. Of course these tend to be the less euro-skeptic. I have been warning for some time, that we have to take the BNP far more seriously and do everything in our power to appeal to those who might be tempted to vote for them.
To do this we must become very firmly a ONE NATION party, that has policies designed to aid hardworking families. We must rediscover our love of Great Britain and be willing to bang to drum for her. We need to be strongly pro-Union and willing to put the interests of our own people first. We need to rid ourselves of the PC mindset. We may well have to commit to a return to boarder controls, and work permits. We must be willing to encourage those who settle in Britain to integrate fully into our communities, and end the ghettos which blight our inner cities. We need to finally and completely end sleaze in parliament. We need our politicians to put the Nation first with a total ban on outside interests. In short we should be the first party people think of when they think of Great Britain.

[resident leftie]

Posted by: Onthejob | February 24, 2009 at 09:01
you say that actual crime has gone down which i don't doubt but when you break those figures down you have a huge increase in Violent crime.

Well, no you don't. Go to page 20 in the report for an overview.

for the majority of people i have no doubt that possibly they never see a criminal or have a problem with crome but at the other end of the scale those who have the misfortune to live on some of the worst estates have nothing but issues with it.

You are right that crime is concentrated at the poorer end of the spectrum, with asylum seekers, ethnic minorities and immigrants disproportionately the victims of crime.

Other interesting findings:
Those people who read national tabloids are more likely to say that crime has increased a lot.

BCS crime rose steadily in the decade from 1981 and continued to rise during the early
1990s, peaking in 1995. Then BCS crime fell between 1995 and 2004/05, and
remained stable for two years until the decrease between 2006/07 and 2007/08
surveys. BCS crime is now at its lowest ever level since the first BCS results in 1981

[Alex Swanson]

BCS crime is now at its lowest ever level since the first BCS results in 1981

I'm not an expert on crime in general, but (as any regular here will know) I do take an interest in gun crime.

It is routinely claimed by supporters on the 1997 handgun ban (including the allegedly impartial BBC) that this improved public safety. I equally routinely challenge this claim whever I come across it, including a complaint to the BBC last year which went all the way up to the Trust (which of course rejected it, despite the facts being against them, thus formally demonstrating that the BBC is actually prepared to lie in order to spread left-wing views).

In the course of a decade of challenges and complaints, not one supporter of the ban has produced a single fact or figure to support it. Not one. Only ever vague and unsubstantiated opinion. And of course, the govt has tacitly admitted this: the 1997 legislation has been followed at intervals by other laws, including a minimum five year sentence for illegal possession of a firearm (*). So far as I am aware, no evidence exists to show that this has had any effect either.

Now, here's the thing: if the flagship anti-crime legislation of this govt hasn't worked, if the govt hasn't succeeded in reducing a type of crime which is headline-grabbing and disproportionately worries the public . . .

. . . why should I believe it's done any better elsewhere? Isn't it more likely that any claimed improvement is just fiddled figures, which we all know it's so good at?

(*) except if you belong to the IRA.

[Super Blue]

The British Crime Survey doesn't interview anyone under 16 (like a lot of the stabbing/shooting targets in London recently) - my company carries it out!

They don't interview murder victims either!