Gove summarises the Tory education message

"In your neighbourhood, there will be a new school going out of its way to persuade you to send your children there. It will market itself on being able to generate better results, and it won’t cost you an extra penny."

The explanation was given to Fraser Nelson who writes more about this morning's Conservative schools seminar here.

Comments

[NorthernMonkey]

Why is there a picture of Virgil Tracy on your front page?

[Why Michael didn't do a PGCE after Oxford]

And this wunder kindergarten will achieve these boons by being run *not* by parents, but by *teachers*. Who, in the real world, are disproportionately left wing (and I mean left wing); disproportionately unionised; generally not very bright (sad but true - and a brute consequence of the grades it takes to become a teacher, as opposed to, oh, a vet - unless of course Gove is going to do away with centralised state credentialisation of 'teachers'?); and by having an entirely new cohort of parents. Who, unlike the ones we have at the moment, will militantly seek out the 'best' education for their kids, as opposed to not giving a toss, beyond wanting to make sure that the socialised daycare secondary state education basically amounts actually takes their kids off their hands for the majority of the waking day.

[Stewart Geddes]

To make this work, as I have said before, requires that the current educational establishment is dismantled, starting with the local education authorities, and probably the GTC thereafter. The Schools inspectorate, if it is to continue at all, needs to have its remit drastically narrowed.

Failure to implement any of these will leave the much needed reforms to education open to systematic torpedoing by vested interests opposed to change and progress. As has happened in every attempt by every government in living memory to reform education.

[Opinicus]

That isn't a policy it is an expression of hope or maybe just of blind faith.

[John Moss]

I agree Stewart, LEAs should have only one role in the future and that will be to act in loco parentis for the children in Local Authority care.

[David_at_Home]

"*teachers*. Who, in the real world..are ..generally not very bright"

This, of course, is the nub of the problem but no politician since, I think Jim Callaghan, has dared flag it up. Of course there are some very good teachers but, in secondary education, they are largely concentrated in the private sector, grammar schools, some sixth form colleges and a few “flagship” comprehensives. Primary schools have become (even more) feminised and frequently bore boys, over the age of 8, almost to death.

Maybe class sizes should be increased so that teaching can be concentrated into the hands of the better teachers whist the rest are sent down to Tesco to stack shelves. In the meanwhile, there should be a recruitment dive to draw in a far better intake of trainee teachers.

Alternatively, we could privatise the lot, have a voucher system, lower the compulsory school leaving age to 15 and encourage real apprenticeships by means of subsidies and part time learning.

The money required to do this should be taken form University education which could be confined to the top 5% -10% studying “real” subjects.

[David Belchamber]

David_at_Home at 16.50:

"Alternatively, we could privatise the lot, have a voucher system, lower the compulsory school leaving age to 15 and encourage real apprenticeships by means of subsidies and part time learning.

The money required to do this should be taken form University education which could be confined to the top 5% -10% studying “real” subjects".

That seems a very fair summary of what is needed.

[The Bishop Swine]

David, you wrong. 5% to 10% isn't anywhere near enough doing real subjects. I suspect you also favour the 11+, which only picks up on those children that have had home tutoring. Not that I disagree with selection, but there needs to be a 13+ and a 16+ to pick up late developers. "encourage real apprenticeships" in which case we need to encourage our manufacturing industry, unless we want Mc Apprenticeships for Mcjobs managed by Mc degree educated graduates.
To put it in a nutshell we need answers for today's situation not try to impose a rosy view from a world that no longer exists on today problems.

[JS]

The solution is obvious - create far more Grammar Schools and bring back proper teaching methods administered by proper teachers.

[John Anslow]

As a recently retired, not-very-bright school teacher, who still manages to rattle off the Times crossword before (an early) breakfast, I respectfully suggest that the following might improve education.

(i) Reduce the size of schools.

(ii) Allow teachers to discipline children.

(iii) Stop bloody-well meddling.

[David_at_Home]

Bishop,

We could debate the percentage equipped to study "real" subjects at University level. I doubt that it will ever exceed about 10% but I would be delighted to be wrong.

In my opinion "real" subjects are largely (but not exclusively) limited to science, engineering, medicine and languages and should only confined, at University level, by those with the equivalent of good relevant A levels.

Otherwise I agree and certainly I very much agree that there should be ladders of opportunity for all ages. We should never forget George Stephenson and Captain Cook. There are many late developers like them.

[Sam R]

Strange that in their alleged espousal of the free market, NuLab still want to have state control of schooling - witness the Charity Commission's threat to remove charitable status from independent schools, where the best teaching is to be found and from where a disproportionate number of our "Olympic Heroes" received their education. By so doing they would make the surviving independent schools really elitist.
But our problems in education are not of recent creation. Since the 60s our state schools have been staffed, by and large, by trendy lefties, and run by, in those days, Socialist local government collectives. Remember the prohibition on competitive sports, the sell-off of playing fields, the prohibition on any contact between local authority schools and schoolchildren and the emerging City Technology Colleges, the kicking-and-screaming opposition to a national curriculum.
More recent nails in the coffin of our education system have been the dumbing-down of examinations and the threatened total demise of the teaching of History and Geography.
We are well on the way to producing a generation that will know not where they are, how they got there nor where they are going.
The patient needs more than an elastoplast!

[MG]

Most parents and their kids just want a good local school to go to. In that sense Gove is right. The issue then is how do we get this. Some form of setting is needed, that seems to be agreed policy. Also of course reasonable buildings to teach in with sutable class sizes. However what really needs addressing is the standard of teaching. The biggest single factor for success in a school is the quality of the headteacher. We must move towards a situation where the UK produces the best headteachers in the world. Good teachers must be rewarded and bad teachers must be sacked. It is far,far too hard to remove poor teachers and our children are suffering as a result while at the same time there are mad flights to other schools as a result. This is what Gove needs to address.

[john]

Sorry to be flippant, but does any other old timer see the resemblence between Michael Gove and 50's ventriloquist's dummy Archie Andrews?

[David Belchamber]

Fraser Nelson mentioned in reporting on the conservative schools forum:

"Amanda Spielman from ARK points out that even the City Academies don't, in the most part, use powers to pay different teachers differently. Tells Cameron he's in danger of creating a whole lot of freedoms that just won't be used".

I repeat what I have often said; after 12 years of Labour, there are, I believe, only some 80 Academies but Tony Blair axed some 1100 direct grant schools which were very similar. As these were directly funded from central government without LEA interference, the Head and governors were able to run them with all the freedom of an independent school.

Also, I agree wholeheartedly with TBS, when he says:

"Not that I disagree with selection, but there needs to be a 13+ and a 16+ to pick up late developers".

I agree with your specific point and, more widely, although selection is anathema to the left, it must be debated in any serious discussion about education.

How otherwise in sporting events, does anyone reach international standard?

[RichardJ]

Privatise the schools and give them total control over teaching methods, admissions etc. Introduce a voucher system to fund it but ensure the currently existing private schools are exempt (otherwise they'll end up becoming dependent on government funding).

[Ross Warren]

"Privatise the schools and give them total control over teaching methods, admissions etc. Introduce a voucher system to fund it but ensure the currently existing private schools are exempt (otherwise they'll end up becoming dependent on government funding)."

We have been here before, wasn't this the policy for Nursery places? When labour got in they abolished the voucher system. My concern is that there overtime a shortfall between the value of the Voucher and the cost of the provision will arise. This would inflict real difficulties on those very many people who can not currently afford to contribute to the cost of their children's education. My father tells be that when he was a lad in the late 1930's my grandmother had to pay six pence a week towards the cost of his schooling. She had 5 children, and its was a struggle. Universal free education must remain both universal and free.

[Essexboy]

Gove summarises the Tory education message...

We'll copy New Labour.

[Chips of Brookfield]

I have a good degree, awarded in the same year as the editor's from the same university. It is in a real subject. I have an IQ of 136. I get good results. My students like my lessons. Ofsted rated me as "Outstanding". I work really hard. I feel sad now - why do Conservative hate me and my kind?

p.s.
Teachers are unionised - but only for the insurance needed for legal protection in case of an allegation from a child. When the NUT went on strike last year many teachers left and joined the NASUWT and ATL.

[Opinicus]

@Chips of Brookfield
We don't hate you or your kind.

What we hate is the way that the teaching profession en masse have over the last thirty years conspired to destroy the country's state education system in pursuit of "all must have prizes". Teachers in general have given up on standards, discipline, high culture, morality and objectivity

They are the most despised and degraded profession in England.... and I include bankers.

To find a good teacher is middle class gold dust. Ofsted reckons one third of schools are failing. If it isn't you take a headship quick and make 2000 parents happy.

[Chips of Brookfield]

Opinicus

Hard on assertion - soft on evidence. E-

[Malcolm Dunn]

Absolutely Chips. There are many great teachers working in useless schools. They work under useless rules and regulations trying to teach the offspring of useless parents.It's not just the teachers who are at fault.

[David Belchamber]

There are many, many excellent teachers, Chips, but Chris Woodhead some years ago pointed out that there were far too many bad teachers in the system (i think he reckoned something like 15,000). If you watch the NUT at conference, it is frightening to think that these people are put in charge of our chidlren.

As I said (and I was a teacher once), I have personally known hard working, dedicated and inspirational teachers - but I also know how easy it is to just go through the motions, take early retirement and have an index-linked pension.

I would like to see schools run by teachers - but they have to be the open-minded, inspirational ones and not the others.

[Beagle]

I do hope Michael Gove will take on the teaching unions and in particular the UCU which dominates in the FE and HE sectors. The UCU's proud boast is that it is hard left and until its hold is broken, further and higher education will fail to deliver the flexibilities in learning that learners and employers want.

[John Anslow]

Can’t say I’ve much regard for Woodhead, but let’s assume he’s right.

15000 useless teachers: that’s about 3% of all schoolteachers, isn’t it?

Too many, yes, get rid of them; but how many duff doctors, bankers and lawyers do you know of? If my experience is typical, a damn sight more than 3%.

[The Bishop Swine]

" have a good degree, awarded in the same year as the editor's from the same university. It is in a real subject. I have an IQ of 136. I get good results. My students like my lessons. Ofsted rated me as "Outstanding". I work really hard. I feel sad now - why do Conservative hate me and my kind?"

I have an IQ of 138, but no degree. However for a number of years I worked as a Tutor administrator on the YTS scheme.I taught computer literacy, and office skills, to 16 to 18 year old school leavers. I also found work placements and many full time permanent jobs for the more motivated. I know that teaching is very hard work indeed. I am also rather sick of people telling me that our children are receiving a poor education and are studying for worthless GCSE's. The school my children go to is very good, I have no complaints about the standard of teaching. I do get rather annoyed by the artificial targets imposed by Labour, which means that children are assumed to be swinging the lead when ill. The other bug bear for me is the creeping PC mindset that is imposed on the children. However, neither of these complaints detract from the standard of teaching or the commitment of all the people who work in the state sector. Of course we should be aiming to improve our academic results and also be looking to improve vocational training for children, who want to concentrate on a practical technical career rather, than an academic one. Rather than putting down our teachers and our children, we should be supporting them, by celebrating the very real improvements in our schools regardless of the political party in charge at the time.
Belittling our teachers and our children is both unfair and counter productive. All children are as green as grass when they enter the world of work, and all still have skills that need developing further.

When I see commentators say things Like:

"What we hate is the way that the teaching profession en masse have over the last thirty years conspired to destroy the country's state education system in pursuit of "all must have prizes". Teachers in general have given up on standards, discipline, high culture, morality and objectivity"

I know that the real villain is neither the children or the teachers but the gutter press. The likes of the Daily Mail are, it seems, all to ready to run Britain down at every opportunity. I see no evidence of any of these complaints at my children's school.
We do receive a post card when our children are doing well, reach 10,20,30 and so on merits. We do get letters reminding us how importance attendance is. We get to see our children's teacher at least 4 times a year to discuss, both the achievements and the failings of the children.
I am very happy with the education my children are receiving and the teachers who work so hard to ensure they do well. My Children attend Greendown community college in Swindon. I am more than happy to sing the school praises, and grow very tired indeed of those who fail to notice the many excellent state sector schools, that do a very good job of teaching our next generation of movers and shakers. I wish the negative commentators would stop and think about the nonsense they are forcing down our throats.

[Opinicus]

@Chips of Brookfield

Si monumentum requiris circumspice

As Teachers used to teach people to say

In what sense is the annual Ofsted report not evidence?

But then crap marking is something of a signature ability of modern teachers. vide (more Latin I'm afraid) last year's SATS and A level appeal numbers.

[The Bishop Swine]

Ne supra crepidam sutor iudicaret

Opinicus are you a member of the teaching profession?

Ipsa scientia potestas est

[Opinicus]

@The Bishop Swine

I do not read the Daily Mail. I have, however, been a governor of two London Comprehensive Schools and seen the teaching profession at its finest.

Britain has substandard education which produces worse results especially in key areas like mathematics than many developing countries resourced at 1/10 of our schools.
The collusion of the guilty who have brought this to pass and who continue to deny what is self evidently true are no longer fooling anyone but themselves.

Of course there are many dedicated and inspiring teachers. But they practice in a culture and a system inimical to good education.

[Opinicus]

Pliny the Elder wasn't faced with an English bog standard comprehensive. I have been a school governor on two London ones. Equally I never met Hitler but I am prepared to accept he was a sh1t. Two thousand years ago they thought the earth was flat.

I don't understand the relevance of the Francis Bacon quote. It certainly doesn't support the Pliny. On the contrary, it implies that true knowledge is power in contradistinction to your self delusion.

[The Bishop Swine]

Opinicus you are clearly a reasonably well educated man. Whilst I will agree that there are many bad schools, Swindon has a few of the worst, there are many that are bucking the trend. As I say I despair at some of the comments that commentators like yourself make. Rather than painting a totally black picture, would it not make better sense to praise the good schools, whilst clearly pointing to the improvements the poor schools should make. I feel for those young teachers who visiting this site pick up on the very large number of negative comments.
I worry that we will damage the morale of good teachers and undermine bright pupils. Regardless of the failings of the current GCSE system, we do the brighter students no favours by making them feel they are wasting their time. Labour has been very bad for our schools, lets be clear that Conservatives will do a better job. I would ask you and others to moderate your comments, and temper them with praise for the very many excellent schools and teachers, of whom I have no doubt our Mr Chips above is an example.

[David Belchamber]

"I worry that we will damage the morale of good teachers and undermine bright pupils. Regardless of the failings of the current GCSE system, we do the brighter students no favours by making them feel they are wasting their time".

I shouldn't worry too much. The Bishop Swine, as our comments do not seem to be heeded much outside these four walls - more's the pity!

It is a pity that when talking about education, we do not try to reassess what schooling is for and what are the best ways of achieving the obejectives we come up with.

I believe that educators must seek out the potential in a child and the system should work to realise that potential over the years. As the bulk of education is provided free to parents, I think that the system should also heed the changing needs of society, so we don't really want too many students doing courses in Beckham or circus or even media studies.

I also think that the question of selection - which has always been anathema to the left (and thereby probably an excellent thing) - should be addressed dispassionately.

As I posted yesterday above at 18.32:

"How otherwise in sporting events, does anyone reach international standard?"

I fully agree with TBS when you say that:

"..we do the brighter students no favours by making them feel they are wasting their time".

Students (I do wish schools would use "pupils") must be judged by the jumps that they have to get over and if the bar is set rather lower these days no blame can attach to them.

However, I really do think that, as with so many other aspects of Brown's government, it would help if we could be given facts and figures that can actually be relied upon.

As I posted elsewhere, many independents are now voting with their feet and moving in the "hard" subjects from GCSEs to the international GCSEs and from A level to the IB. Our state exams are no longer a good enough test for able pupils who are well taught.

[simon baker]

Opinicus you are speaking rubbish. According to a 2002 poll teachers were in the top 10 most respected professions, in a recent US Gallup poll bankers had a 23% positive rating, while teachers were in the most positive rated category. It should also be noted that teachers all have to have at least C grades in English and Maths and a degree of some form, putting them automatically in the top 40-50% of the population.
I do agree with many comments on the site though, we need a genuine voucher system to offer real choice to parents, we need grammars to be set up where parents want them and we need to continue to ensure that our top independent schools continue to offer significant bursaries and scholarships. It should also be clear that we require proper subjects including, english, maths, languages and science and real history and geography (and not the PC new proposal for primary level of 'human and community understanding'). I don't think we will see a reversal in graduates however, HR departments and the private and public sector require it almost as an automatic for many white collar jobs, we will just see continued business studies and vocational degrees outside of the top 10% of students. Finally, I do support Michael Gove's willingness to allow state schools to offer the IB, pre-U and international GCSE. However, beware, as the headmaster of St Paul's recently said would parents of someone likely to get a C in the pre-U or international GCSE in the private sector really want them to take it when a person of similar ability could get a B at A-Level or GCSE in the state sector. Remember private school pupils are not always A* candidates, they vary in ability, after all they are by definition not automatically selective!

[The Bishop's Wife]

"Sorry to be flippant, but does any other old timer see the resemblence between Michael Gove and 50's ventriloquist's dummy Archie Andrews?"

L.O.L. Your right, but I think its a very odd photograph. The question is whose hand is stuck up his ar*e? Wow though Archie Andrews that's just a little before my time, but I have seen clips on the TV.

[A very good teacher]

With regards to 'not-very-bright' teachers - would you class myself as one? I achieved very good grades at GCSE and A-Level (A's and B's) but at University let myself down badly in my third year and ended up with a third. My academic references, honesty and performance on the entrance interview and test were enough to secure me a place on a PGCE course at a very good education centre. I volunteered for a year enhancement course where I came top of my class. Following on, I was awarded a distinction in my PGCE year and am now in my second year of teaching. I am on target to complete my masters course in education where again I am predicted to leave with a distinction. I have also been recommended to train as an AST.
Under the proposed Tory policy, there would not be the flexibility to give me this chance. I know a lot of people will say I was given a chance at university but threw it away, but sometimes things don't work out the way we plan.
Who thinks I shouldn't be a teacher??

[Teaching is not just something that only the 'brightest' can do!]

I despair at the number of people with no idea about what goes on in schools commenting, based on what old Etonians say about a system they too have no idea about. What works for the privileged (and I include your typical middle class child in this), such as learning Latin, or the names of all the Kings and Queens of England by rote does not automatically work for those who have not the same support at home. If school is just there to teach us facts (as Gove would have us believe) then why do we even need teachers? I went to a prep school and then a grammar school (consistently rated 'outstanding' by ofsted due to its results), and at neither did I see teaching near the quality I now do at the state junior school at which I teach. ASTs have had a massive part to play in this (as anyone who knows anything about education will know, modelling is how we all learn anything) yet Gove wants to do away with them. I feel truly disenchanted. This is one 'outstanding' (according to ofsted) (leading) teacher who is not looking forwards to seeing the desperately negative impact Gove's reforms will have.