Scottish Tory leader Annabel Goldie was in Westminster today to attend the shadow cabinet meeting - something which she will now be doing on a monthly basis. She also briefed Westminster based journalists, and took the opportunity to emphasise the need for her and David Cameron to work closely together, as well as for First MInster Alex Salmond to have a relationship with the UK Prime Minister.
She said:
“I think it is important for David Cameron and I to work closely together and I have decided that attending Shadow Cabinet at Westminster on a monthly basis will help cement what is already a very good relationship. In this digital age it is still important to meet face to face. I have been to Shadow Cabinet at Westminster on a number of occasions and know what a useful experience it is.
"Like David Cameron, I believe that the UK and the Scottish Governments need to work closely together as do Westminster and Holyrood. Gordon Brown and Alex Salmond do not meet with each other to stand up for the people of Scotland. David Cameron and I will.
"Gordon Brown has fallen into the SNP’s trap of gripe and grievance politics and it is threatening the Union. David Cameron and I will not make the same mistake. As Conservatives we are unswerving in our support for the Union and we will not allow the Labour SNP turf war to damage the UK.”
She went on to describe Labour as being "clumsy and inept" in terms of the way is has treated its relationship - or rather lack thereof - wth the SNP administration at Holyrood and siad that the key to a prodcutive relationship was "mutual repsect" between London and Edinburgh.
She pointed out that tomorrow will be the first time in about ten months that Alex Salmond and Gordon Brown have met, and lay much of the blame for this on Mr Salmond, saying that it suited him in pursuing a "provocative agenda". She reminded journalists of David Cameron's promise to meet Alex Salmond within seven days in the event of becoming Prime Minister.
I asked her the same question I asked David Cameron at his press conference the other week: whether backing an early referendum on independence (wth the aim of secuirng a no vote) after a Tory general election victory would be the way to shoot the SNP fox. She said that "an independence referendum is not on our agenda" and indicated her intention to continue to oppose a referendum bill whenever the SNP administration put it forward at Holyrood.
Jonathan Isaby
As Conservatives we are unswerving in our support for the Union”
WHY? How about asking English people if they like this one sided tail-wagging-the- dog sort of 'union'.
Posted by: Janet | February 24, 2009 at 17:36
Annabel seems a good sort if not always that effective. I suppose when she has such small representation at Holyrood it's very difficult. Nevetheless I hope she will become as brutal with Salmond as he is with those who disagree with him.
Hopefully this thread will not degenerate into the usual anti Scottish diatribes that have disfigured so many threads in the past.
Posted by: Malcolm Dunn | February 24, 2009 at 17:44
Isaby: 'to hold an early referendum in Scotland to endorse its constitutional status within the UK. He (Cameron) did not rule this out, saying he would want to "do whatever it takes to govern in the interests of the whole of the UK" and that he was "prepared to consider all things in order to be able to do that".
'She (Goldie) said that "an independence referendum is not on our agenda" and indicated her intention to continue to oppose a referendum bill whenever the SNP administration put it forward at Holyrood.'
Cameron and Goldie would seem to have some same hymn sheet singing from problems. Are we for or agin' ruling out or in nothingwise?
How do we shoot the English fox? No not Liam. Any hymn sheets up and running yet?
'anti Scottish diatribes that have disfigured so many threads in the past.'
Maybe, if the thread, any thread, started from an English perspective?
That would be....refreshingly....different.
Posted by: Englandism.co.uk | February 24, 2009 at 18:10
Personally I believe that the Conservatives should support a referendum on Scottish independence. Not only would a referendum lance the boil of independence because the Scottish would I believe vote against it would also I think increase there support among Scottish voters.
If the party advocates referendum in local government and European issues it should not be against the Scots deciding there own future in a referendum.
Posted by: Jack Stone | February 24, 2009 at 18:15
I'm a Surrey Tory, half-English, half-Scottish and born in Aberdour, but not a unionist. I support a Conservative Party north of the border, but as part of an independent Scotland within the EU. There's no need for a UK any more. Yes, Annabel Goldie at shadow cabinet, yes a single political structure. No need for England to be linked to Scotland (which is a recent thing anyway in historical terms).
Posted by: Domesday | February 24, 2009 at 18:22
As a Scottish conservative, if someone offers me an independent, low tax, pro business Scotland why on earth would I say no and vote to stay in an anti-business, big tax UK?
Posted by: Afleitch | February 24, 2009 at 18:27
This "close working relationship"will it mean Ms Goldie voting on matters that only concern England? because Mr. Cameron will not be able to vote on anything happening in Scotland,.so whats close about that?
Posted by: I Albion | February 24, 2009 at 18:30
The first task will be to sort out the money. We will have perhaps a six month honeymoon period after the GE, when we can negotiate from strength, then everything will drift into a bog of small details and Alex Salmond being not cleverer but harder and more determined than DC. Any new agreement will require (unless we get a wholly unexpected number of MPs in Scotland) a referendum in Scotland and if only as a negotiating tool to rein in Salmond, one in England too.
Salmond is going to use a Conservative government in England to push for independence by recalling the shade of Thatcherism. I don't think anyone seriously expects anything else. I would if I were him. In the midst of a continuing depression and/or public spending squeeze, he will use "unfair" money allocation as his weapon. I would if I were him.
This reality is eighteen months or less away. This feeble attempt to muddle on is not a sensible response, unless the secret intention is to allow Salmond to win and have his independence by deliberately aiming to lose.
Posted by: Opinicus | February 24, 2009 at 18:50
Albion - could you please explain what Scottish affairs David Cameron cannot vote on at present or if he was PM?
Westminster has routinely voted on Scottish affairs in areas reserved to Hollyrood in the Scotland Act - this has thus far been by accident and has been repealed. The Scotland Act itself was created by Westminster, and therefor the Westminster parliament retains the full right to legislate over all Scottish domestic affairs normally devolved to Hollyrood. Therefor all MPs from English constituencies can vote on all Scottish affairs, and vice versa. The 'West Lothian question' would only exist if English MPs had no such right to vote on Scottish matters, but they do. The existance of the devolved parliament has no legal impact on the rights of Westminster.
This is why restricting English legislation to just MPs from English constituancies wouldnt work, because there would be no corresponding restiction stopping English MPs voting on Scottish affairs or even removing the Scottish Parliament altogether (however unlikely).
The only answer in my view is a separate English Parliament.
Janet - our national party is the Conservative and Unionist party. The party I am a member of is the Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party. Belief in and support of BRITAIN is the core of our party. Labour's constitution is riddled with faults, not least the lack of an Ebglish Parliament, but I dont see those as a reason to throw the baby out with the bathwater.
Chris C.
Posted by: Chris C. | February 24, 2009 at 21:08
Opinicus - in my view Salmond's much vaunted 'antiTory' effect in Scotland after a Cameron win will not materialise. Salmond has done well to maintain popularity but he has enough problems on his plate of late. Ultimately, unless the Lib Dems cave in, there will be no referendum. In the 2011 election the SNP will try to play on this but it will be like Hague in 2001 warbling on about 'saving the pound' and no one listening - there will be far more important issues to deal with.
Labout nationally will be out of power and that may be bad for that party overall it might not be a bad thing for the Scottish Labour in 2011. If Scottish voters didnt like a Tory governemtn - and I dont think that would be especially true - they are more likely to look to Labour than to SNP to challenge that. Belive me, Labout will play on that heavily.
Chris C.
Posted by: Chris C. | February 24, 2009 at 21:15
"Annabel seems a good sort if not always that effective. I suppose when she has such small representation at Holyrood it's very difficult. Nevetheless I hope she will become as brutal with Salmond as he is with those who disagree with him.
Hopefully this thread will not degenerate into the usual anti Scottish diatribes that have disfigured so many threads in the past."
Malcolm, no offence, but that post sums up a complete lack of knowledge or understanding of what has been going on in Holyrood for the last 2 years. But I do wholeheartedly agree with your last point. I don't think your comment on our team at Holyrood reflects what has actually been happening up here at all. The Tories have improved their standing in the polls up here more in the last 2/3 years than they have done for the previous 10 years.
So yes, Annabel as a leader, and her team have been extremely effective in improving our position North of the Border, as well as seeing some of their key manifesto pledges implemented after working successfully with the minority SNP administration.
Won't go into too much detail, but lets just say that the Scottish Conservative operation on all levels is now vastly improved since 2005, and in particular after 2007 as we have moved towards a GE. Sadly, the perceptions of Scottish politics and the huge sea change its undergone remains very much below the radar to some.
Very clever move by Goldie and Cameron today, and Annabel delivered a well crafted message that will not be lost up here where it was quite clearly targeted.
Posted by: ChrisD | February 25, 2009 at 00:57
We'll see Chris D.I hope you're right. But our standing in the polls in Scotland is still very low.As I live in England so do not follow all the debates in Holyrood but when I see Annabel on programmes like QT she always seem to be too nice and reasonable to be effective against a street fighter like Salmond.
Posted by: Malcolm Dunn | February 25, 2009 at 08:52
Have to give credit to the Scottish Conservatives, along with the SNP they are the only party trying to make devolution work
Posted by: Omar Kader | February 25, 2009 at 10:29
"But our standing in the polls in Scotland is still very low."
Malcolm, that is simple not true. And in fact, they have moved substantially higher in the last year or two, all the more dramatic a movement after they flat lined for so many years. IIRC, Tim had to correct a similar assumption on here a while back when he commented on this, and it was pointed out to him by an SNP supporter no less.
We have finally managed to achieve some of our manifesto commitments under Goldie's sterling stewardship during this Holyrood parliament. And that is another amazing milestone for the party up here. But, you must not confuse the Holyrood and Westminster voting intentions, there are very clear differences and that is where we are making the most progress.
The Libdems in particular have been falling back, and that is the party which took most of our natural support in the last 12 years.
Posted by: ChrisD | February 25, 2009 at 12:00
I don't believe the SNP, at least under Alex Samond's leadership, wants Scottish independence anymore than the Tory Party is Eurosceptic.
The SNP has its own deception, just as the LibLabCon Party has its. Both mean the English are screwed for the sake of two unions, the UK and EU.
Every MP in England is useless to his/her constituents.
Posted by: Stephen Gash | February 25, 2009 at 13:06
'our national party is the Conservative and Unionist party. The party I am a member of is the Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party. Belief in and support of BRITAIN is the core of our party.' Chris C
I suggest you organise a referendum of English Conservatives Chris C, and see what the result is. I think the support for the Union by the put upon tax payers of England is long gone. This does not stop us being Conservatives. The union as it is with no English Parliament is totally unjust and trying to make it work is a gross dereliction of duty by those MPs who represent English constituencies.
Posted by: Janet | February 25, 2009 at 20:21
"Annabel Goldie emphasises the need for a close working relationship between Holyrood and Westminster"
Oh, how very nice.
Completely ignores the fact that the Union has been fundamentally destabilised by The Scotland Act 1998
As a result, one of the original partner countries to the national marriage that made the British has her own parliament and government while the other is still under the direct rule of the British state. Also that "Annabel" and all Scottish MP's at Westminster no longer have any democratic legitimacy in poking their noses into anything to do with England's internal government.
Ditto for MP's from NI and Wales.
Until England is treated equally with Scotland ie with her own referendum, parliament, government, ministers, budget and civil service, this whole corrosive issue is never going to go away.
Malcom Dunn had better get used to it.
Posted by: Jake | February 25, 2009 at 21:12
Chris D,we poll less than 20% don't we? That's low. Jake am used to it as I have to put with reading the same obsessive posts from single issue bores like you.
Posted by: Malcolm Dunn | February 25, 2009 at 22:51
"Chris D,we poll less than 20% don't we?"
Err, no. We have been polling around 20-25% recently, and that should be with the caveat that we tend to still be underestimated by 2/3% as is often noted on PB.com. And no, that is not low, that is considerable higher than the flatline figure we sat at for so many years. We also have four party politics in Scotland, something that I think you forget quite often down South, and that makes the recovery all the more remarkable, and in that context makes our polling figures that bit more impressive.
I wouldn't dismiss this recovery North of the Border, or what it might mean at the next GE when you consider the mountain we have to climb UK wide to win a majority of 1 at the next GE.
Posted by: ChrisD | February 25, 2009 at 23:11