« Eric Pickles gears up to lovebomb the Liberal Democrats (again and again and again) | Main | George Osborne targets Labour's "endless announcements" as fears grow of recession worse than the 1980s »

Comments

Evan Davis did press Brown repeatedly (and of course unsuccessfully) to admit that we had had another 'boom and bust'. But he let Brown get away with constantly blaming all our difficulties on the 'global banking crisis' and never called him on the undeniable fact that Britain is in a much worse position than most other countries due to the enormous borrowing binge that inflated our multiple bubbles.

He was so focussed on getting Brown to admit that we had another 'boom and bust' - which no doubt would have been a good sound bite - that he didn't address the substance. Ridiculous.

Yes heard the same interview taking the kids to school this morning.

You could have taken any of his standard Tractor production replies from any interview over the last 3 months.

But I think now the only people shouting at the radio will be Labour spin Doctors, who if you can forget their past actions you might even begin to feel sorry for. All these performances do is confirm to the public that Brown as out of his depth and perhaps confused about what is going on. ( The Wilsonian event may perhaps be happening to him also ? Perhaps he can't understand any more ? )

Brown just would not answer the straight forward question even now being asked by his MPs as to how much taxpayers money is at risk.

PS I twice heard Evan Davis tell Brown he was right - in a desperate attempt to get him to move on. Further he made the somewhat dubious claim that as he hadn't seen the current crisis coming as a economics correspondent that he couldn't lecture Brown on it.

To be fair, Gordon is half right when he said he "abolished Boom and Bust"

He's abolished Boom.

Brown's mind is stuck in the past. It's like he never moved on from his deal with Tony Blair in that restaurant. When he attacks David Cameron, he is attacking the Conservative party that existed before New Labour came into power. He can't grasp the fact that David Cameron changed his party to attract BBC employees and Guardian readers. Brown just can't accept the reality that is going on around him. He's a longterm thinker that has little sense of the objectivity of the moment. Unfortunately for Great Britain, our Prime Minister is past his sell-by date.

Our twat of a Prime Minister is all too happy to take full credit for the financial boom of the last 10 years but now that the boom has turned to bust it's apparently a 'global problem'!

Does his persistant denial and inability to face the truth remind you of Mugabe`s "There is no cholera epidemic in Zimbabwe"? !!
On another issue I saw him in PMQs this week changing policy on the hoof leaving the rest of his cabinet trying to defend his actions. The man is seriously out of his depth and because of his powerful position is a liability to this country. The longer he remains in his office does not bode well for our country. Is there nothing we can do?
Liz Kemp

Brown has also stolen the Conservative policy for paying companies around £2,5000 to take on unemployed workers.

The Conservatives announced it in November, it was panned by Labour (Tony McNulty in particular) and now Gordon Brown has stolen it and pretended it was his idea all along.

man in a shed - I was equally amazed at Evan Davis' assertion that he hadn't seen the crisis coming.
many of us did; (experiemce tells us that almost everything is cyclical) but were repeatedly warned about "talking down the economy".

Evan Davies is an incompetent useless interviewer. Stuck in traffic this morning, so was forced to listen to his drivelling interview.

Who cares is Brown was wrong about Boom and Bust - it's such a nonsense question.

He completely missed the big ones. Brown said at one point "we've just agreed that the recession is caused by the global problems". Evan didn't even try to pull him up on this nonsense. Brown also said that this recession was caused by the banks when again this is nonsense. The recession was caused by overindebtedness. Evan also failed to take him to task on his pronouncement that this entirely started in the US. FFS!!!!! Need I go on. The man should be shot (fired - not killed).

On a separate note, the interview on Israel was like a prosecution. Not a shred of independence from the Beeb. The interviewer had his opinions and clearly made them felt. Not professional stuff. The Israeli representative was making very reasonable points - and the Beeb was already acting as judge and Jury.

Ultimately the blame for all this lies with the man elected First Lord of the Treasury, Anthony Blair, who not only promised to serve a full term (if elected) but from the start in 1997 abdicated his responsibility for the Treaury to the maniac Scottish Socialist. It is arguable that Labour might not have won the 2005 election if the prospect of the Brown Terror had been in the manifesto.

House of Commons - Treasury - Fifth Report [24 January 2008]

13. ............. The Governor of the Bank of England, Mervyn King, was also supportive of the quality of the asset book of Northern Rock, telling us that:
"What I would say about Northern Rock (and this is the tragedy of Northern Rock) is that most of the staff that worked in Northern Rock on the lending side, all the evidence shows, did an excellent job in appraising the loans that they were making, and that they monitored very carefully and they did not lend money to people who should not be borrowing from them. The lending side was handled extremely well."

and:

[Hansard] 24/1/2008 The Prime Minister: "The loans and bonds are secured against the assets of Northern Rock, which, as everyone understands, has a high-quality loan book. It is our intention to get the best deal for taxpayers: they will get their money back, and make a profit."

More from Hansard - Wednesday 26th November 2008, in a debate in the House of Lords, Lord Myners [Parliamentary Secretary, HM Treasury] said:

"foreclosures are higher in Northern Rock than in other mortgage lenders because its lending was more irresponsible. It is as simple as that."

Gordon Brown accepts no responsibility for todays crisis, preferring to blame the Americans who he blamed for not forseeing what was likely to happen as a result of all the potentially poisonous debts.

But who was in charge over here during the same period and who failed to forsee similar events here? Er, was it Gordon Brown?

And who weakened regulation?

Not to mention instituting the "There-will-never-be-a-rainy-day" financial policy.

And gold sales and pensions theft?

Could all this be because he never had his eye on the ball as Chancellor but always had his eye on his main chance - to be PM?

And he still thinks he's the bee's knees!

I wonder how many more votes were lost today by that inept performance. Assuming that is that we ever get the chance to vote. Remember Brown doesnt like elections!- he prefers coronations. Brown is living in a parallel universe with his constant evasion and refusal to accept that this recession is down to him. The failure of Northern Rock wasnt caused by America

David Cameron gave a speech to DEMOS yesterday where he warned Britain faces a real risk of needing a humiliating 1970s-style bailout from the International Monetary Fund.

In his strongest remarks to date on the financial crisis, the Tory leader said if the Government continued on its present course, 'then money will run out'.

I recall we've been here once before under Jim Callaghan. Indeed like many others I lived through the 70's, which saw mass strikes and picketing on docks and ship yards, lorry drivers, nurses, council refuse collectors and even grave diggers where the dead could not be buried because of the Labour Government's policies which were not economically sound. In fact far from being sound, they were perilous and led this country into seeking a humiliating loan from the International Monetary Fund which brought with it, its conditions. "Conditionalities" as they are officially called.

Now once more, we're staring into an economic and political abyss which Brown's Borrowing will lead to topple Britain into if he's not stopped. Once he has no other choice but to go cap in hand to the IMF, then that will be the end of Britain because it will impose its conditionalities upon our nation. One of these conditionalities will be a requirement to fully engage with the European Union both monetarily, economically and politically, and thus we will be tumbling head first into globalisation with big government, big bureaucratic control, and another big lie yet again will have been foisted on to the British people without them agreeing to any of it.

Make no mistake. A loan from the IMF comes with a very high price. It must also be sanctioned by America, our partners within the IMF. It doesn't take a big grain of thought to see why for the last 40 years, Britain has developed along American lines with its economy and socially divisive privatisation policies. For these policies, conditionalities of the IMF, led us into the hubris and excessive debt laden country we have now which stands its people aside for the benefit of 'business', and made it impossible to retrench ourselves as an independent isle, a sovereign nation, and a real democracy, simply because they don't figure in the plan to dominate global politics and economics through the dastardly developing globalised policy programs which have led to the current global financial crisis.

David Cameron talks of "progressive conservatism", and reaching the same destination socially but by different means. He says we basically all want the same things, and he speaks to DEMOS the public funded political think tank which gave us Tony Blair and was once affiliated with Julia Middleton now head of Common Purpose and one time head of staff for John Prescott whilst he was Deputy PM at number 10 Downing Street.

Many are sick of this bum Brown and we need rid of him. He's the guy who removed the Bank of England's oversight from financial markets and British banks. We're also sick of his ideological Fabian dream which is set in its plan to trample our independence and to remove our ability to choose our future as a sovereign nation by inculcating the British people with its liberal aim to bring about revolutionary changes without revolution. Of course if Gordon Brown was not part of the Fabian Plan then he would call an election now for the country's sake in order for the British people to exercise their own choice on the way forward, but since his Fabian ideology comes first, then he doubtless won't, and we'll end up a ruined nation going cap in hand to the IMF, and we'll come to be an intractable 'partner' of the globalised world which combines the plans of America as manifested inside the European Union through globalised economics, globalised foreign policies, globalised politics and globalised laws which will create one big global heap of excrement underneath the banner of America's UNIPOLARISM.

I'd choose not to fall into the abyss with Brown or into the trap of unipolarism which by any other name is the New World Order and is the very essence of what the financial crisis is actually about in the first place.

People might want to remember this when they read Gordon Brown's reaction to David Cameron's speech, which was given this mornings as follows by the BBB, which is itself a contributor and employs many 'graduates' of Common Purpose.

Do you trust Gordon Brown ?

Brown's story goes like this:

The government will fight the recession with "every weapon at its disposal", Gordon Brown has said.

Speaking before figures showed the steepest quarterly fall in economic growth since 1980, Mr Brown said the recession was "different" to past ones.

He told BBC Radio 4's Today programme its length would depend on the effectiveness of GLOBAL co-operation.

Tim asks My question is whether Brown himself is so self-deluded that he believes his only lies or does he just think that we're all fools?

You're so wrong, Tim. It's not a question of 'or'. He thinks we are fools, and he is psychotically delusional.

Most people don't actually follow the detail of what is going on. So, the repetition of deluded statements by Brown and other leading spokesmen who will guarantee headline news and being reported in snippets which will get read means more electorally than the contradicting detail.

The claim of "do nothing" is more important in getting the electorate to form a view of the Conservatives than an analysis of whether in fact the "something" being done by Brown is a copy of Conservative proposals. The detail of the causes and potential fixes to the economic crisis are almost unspeakably dull and esoteric for most people - when Cameron called for loan guarantees, the response from ordinary people would have been rightly underwhelming because it takes longer than a 30 second segment on R1 Newsbeat to explain. However, when it is actually done by the people who currently actually have the power to implement it, it is more interesting because it is actual action.

At least that is the Mandelsonian calculation. It's all about winning the election, nothing to do with truth or honesty.

In short Tim, he thinks we're all fools. But I'm sure you already know this!

Brown's pathetic denials and obfuscations were cringe-making, it was Vicki Pollard-level. Evan Davis does not go for the jugular, I'm sure Labour will be lining up to be interviewed by him while the Tories get John Humphries.

Brown was Chancellor for 10 years, at the top table globally for all that time while others came and went only he was there, ours was the 4th largest economy. He was one of the key players in setting the rules and managing the global economy. It is essential he must take the blame for the bust, not just the boom, accept it and then we can move on. We cannot move on anywhere except downhill with the PM in such denial.

Very true, 'Rugfish': the demands of the IMF could indeed place the most impossible demands on us if we go crawling to them for a loan. (Remember what happened to Poland and Russia after *their* IMF loans.) Well, I say 'we', but as ever the general population has no say in the matter. And the majority of them have wised up to the points made above; they know Brown's full of it. Hence the resurgence in Conservative popularity over the past month or so.
There is something else important at stake which seems to be overlooked consistently: honesty. Our politicians (on both sides of the narrow divide) have been coached so assiduously by PR agents on ways in which they can fix a message permanently in the electorate's mind that they repeat the same message, the same speech, over and over again. Now even George W., for all his many glaring faults, actually spoke without an internal autocue. Our 'leaders' are setting the most appalling example to our children through their inability to speak plainly and truthfully. Why should we expect them to answer the question if the Prime Minister refuses to do so? Why should we attempt to instill in them moral values if their prime example is one of deceit?
If we're going to rebuild a broken Britain we need to be addressing not just the financial, but the social implications of Brownianism.

If you believe that stating a fact, for example, 'the current recession started in the US', is 'anti-American', you have entirely lost touch with reality.

Brown is in denial. Wikipedia:

Denial of fact: This form of denial is where someone avoids a fact by lying. This lying can take the form of an outright falsehood (commission), leaving out certain details in order to tailor a story (omission), or by falsely agreeing to something (assent, also referred to as "yessing" behavior). Someone who is in denial of fact is typically using lies in order to avoid facts that they think may be potentially painful to themselves or others.

Denial of responsibility: This form of denial involves avoiding personal responsibility by blaming, minimizing or justifying. Blaming is a direct statement shifting culpability and may overlap with denial of fact. Minimizing is an attempt to make the effects or results of an action appear to be less harmful than they may actually be. Justifying is when someone takes a choice and attempts to make that choice look okay due to their perception of what is "right" in a situation. Someone using denial of responsibility is usually attempting to avoid potential harm or pain by shifting attention away from themselves.

Brown to a T.

Agree with most of the comments above.

No surprise Brown is suffering from delusions. We knew he was very sick when he declared he’d ended boom and bust. As Richard Littlejohn notes, Brown's current delusional state causes him to keep parroting ‘Began in America’ ‘Do whatever is necessary’ ‘Do nothing Tories’ ‘Send for the Nurse’

Naturally the BBC struggles with an economic concept which requires income to be generated before it’s spent, so it’s perhaps not surprising that Evan Davis didn’t foresee an end to endless spending of other peoples’ money.

Listening to this interview was like watching vomit trickle down a wall. The guy conducting the interview just allowed Brown to go into hyperdrive spouting absolute drivel at high speed so that he couldn't be interruppted or held to account.
The country is amoungst a whole host of problems made worse by the most ignorant PM in history is suffering from a total lack of confidence and will only have a chance of recovering once the likes of Brown and his Labour cronnies are consigned to the dustbin of History.
There is no confidence in the man from any quarter he lies constantly so that no one beleives a word he says and his continual mantras putting blame everyone but himself. I am sure that the root of a significant amount of the problems lie squarely at his front door and if they don't he has made them worse. Only when he is gone rather like Bush can there be any hope of recovery.

Evan Davis is certainly no match for Brown when the latter goes into hysterical econobabble mode, as he did on the Today programme. It might have helped if Davis had been more forceful in interrupting the torrent of self justification that issued from our Labour ex chancellor, but no amount of bluster and obsfucation can detract from Brown's own part in the current fiasco. Apart from all this, to try and implicate David Cameron in the cause for the disatrous fall of the pound was outrageous. When we have to go cap in hand to the IMF it will be Brown and his cohorts who will be responsible for repeating history.

re: Posted by: ACT | January 23, 2009 at 10:46

Actually it was Browns demolition of regulation here that stoked the market over there. Where do you think the wholesale funding of derelict loans was coming from.
---
Culpability Brown: The Credit Card Chancellor and now the Ditherer of Downing Street

"You're so wrong, Tim. It's not a question of 'or'. He thinks we are fools, and he is psychotically delusional.

Posted by: Graeme Archer | January 23, 2009 at 10:19 "

I have long thought Brown to be more than just a little mentally odd. Met him once and talked to him. He was VERY odd.
"Psychotic" certainly springs to mind .

As in mild penetrance/high functioning Aspergers disorder spectrum.

High functioning autism (HFA) is another possibility. They can often be very successful people. In a way.

Have any Labourites tried to defend Brown's behaviour anywhere?

New Labour was built on lies, lies and more lies.

With the financial turmoil the lies and liars are more brazen and obvious.

Blair told the shallow lies of the snake oil salesman. Brown is a criminal liar - he knows the extent of his own dishonesty.

@Bexie "Culpability Brown: The Credit Card Chancellor and now the Ditherer of Downing Street"

I like it - very good!

Brown is in complete denial. Sounds like a long forgotten former Labour PM, Callaghan, who presided over the 'winter of discontent' saying, "Crisis, what crisis?"

I think is is time for the men in white coats to call and collect him.

Intoneth Tim elsewhere: "Does the ideology of the Left make some of their supporters more hateful towards the Right than we are to them - or are we just as bad? I hope it's only twelve months before we can display generosity in victory." Well golly how delightful the 'right' is, on the basis of this and so many other ConHome threads:

Our twat of a Prime Minister
Posted by: Ray | January 23, 2009 at 09:44

Does his persistant denial and inability to face the truth remind you of Mugabe`s "There is no cholera epidemic in Zimbabwe"? !!
Posted by: liz kemp | January 23, 2009 at 09:49

It's not a question of 'or'. [Brown] thinks we are fools, and he is psychotically delusional.
Posted by: Graeme Archer | January 23, 2009 at 10:19

I have long thought Brown to be more than just a little mentally odd. Met him once and talked to him. He was VERY odd.
"Psychotic" certainly springs to mind .
As in mild penetrance/high functioning Aspergers disorder spectrum.
High functioning autism (HFA) is another possibility. They can often be very successful people. In a way.
Posted by: Jake | January 23, 2009 at 11:14


Why doesn't David Cameron ask much more relevant questions of Gordon Brown? D.C. goes on about Boom and Bust, that question became irrelevant when the banks failed. Why does'nt D.C.mention that our country is worse that so many other countries, why does he let Gordon Brown get away with this "Global" word all the time.? I really feel that Mr. Cameron could be more aggresive ( without being rude!) and to pull Gordon Brown up about the gold etc. and When Gordon Brown mentions that the Tories are the 'do nothing Party' David should say "we will do something when we are in Government". Tell Mr. Brown that the Labour Party should be governing not relying on the Conservative
Party to give him all the ideas!

Your comments on ConHome threads certainly put you at the head of the nasty league table, ACT.

Well of course they do Tim. Disagreeing with you and 'Red Toryism' automatically makes one just the nastiest cove you could hope to meet. Much, much more unpleasant indeed than someone who casually compares a democratically elected (and governing) Prime Minister to, say, a murderous tyrant like Mugabe. Good sense of proportion there Tim. But yeah, take leader loyalty and blind partisanship where you will. Thus far on this thread, its taken people to calling the Prime Minister, 'psychotically delusional', 'mentally odd', and autistic. That sort of stuff was boring and unconvincing when the Soviets used to pretend that their enemies were mentally ill. It's little more impressive when bores on the internet shriek the same catcalls. Each to their own, and on these threads Tim, you've demonstrably found yours.


Brown is in denial and hoping the stupid voters fall for it once again.

Did Hitler blame himself in 1945? No it was incompetent Generals and uncommitted troops.

Does Mugabe accept responsibility for what has happened to Zimbabwe? No that's the British & American colonial powers.

Well people of Britain, you have plenty of evidence now.

Really, it took thirty five comments before a ConHomer reminded us that Brown=Hitler?


'the USA is responsible for Britain's recession'

On Newsnight lastnight Peter Lilley asked a question that bears repeating: (not verbatim) If (Bush's) America had such an appallingly managed (irresponsible etc)economy, why did Brown laud Alan Greenspan from the rooftops and recommend him for an honorary knighthood?
It is a devastating question. Which I wish I had heard George Osbourne ask first.

Anyone else noticed how much we owe the current mess to the Scots?

Scottish banks bankrolled by the English, A not flash Scottish prime minister, a hapless scott chancellor...

As for the celtic tiger and demands for independence..

It dismays me that the Labour party members are so weak and ineffectual that there is no-one within in the PLP that has the intelligence, nous and courage to challenge this very large sulky man, who believes the job is his as a right.

There is no bottom to the financial markets until confidence and optimism return. To that end I hope that the election of Obama will bring optimism and confidence back into play, because without those, the financial situation is going to deteriorate. One thing is for sure though, Gordon Brown is not the man on this side of the water to cause that optimism. He is enjoying being the man of the moment wallowing in all of this mire that he has created. We need to get Cameron and the conservatives in to power to see the return of confidence and optimism.

Do you know, I really loathe Gordon Brown. He has really fouled up Britain with his strange tinkerings and concentration on tiny details, missing the big picture completely. He is the personification of so many things related to poor government and the rantings of the left. Time to go Gordon.

At the next PMQs, Mr Cameron should ask about Mr Brown's current medical status. Is he taking drugs, and if so, what and why? Is he taking counselling, and if so, what for? Has he been advised by any of his medical staff about the effects of stress? etc.

The Radio 4 interview today was just so truly weird.

ACT some fair comment.

But how would explain Brown's behaviour at PMQ's and at press conferences. Yes he is the PM and he is doing his best. But what is there about him that explains his inability to tell it like it is? Why does he treat us like idiots? Why does he think it necessary to be a habitual liar? His behaviour is insulting.

A question for ACT: can you honestly say, hand on heart, that you think Mr Brown is a mentally healthy, well-adjusted person? I think you should honestly consider the possibility that he has genuine emotional/psychological issues. After all, how long has he been in Downing St one way or another? The concentration of effectively untrammelled power in Downing Sts (10 & 11) reveals character over time, and any flaws develop into cracks etc etc. Happens to the best of them. So go on, tell us you think he's clear-eyed sane.

A.Headhunter @ 10.05, Tony Blair was humself on an ego-trip after he was selected leader of the Labour Party, and he would have used anybody to further his plans. He was also more than ably assisted on his ego-trip by his egotistical wife!
Brown was the perfect dumb waiter!!

I absolutely agree with Angel Basu @ 10.26 - I, myself have said over and over for months, that EVERYTHING, is about winning the next election, EVERYTHING. The problems of job losses will only be addressed in a way to enhance labour votes! Brown and Mandelson have NO thought for how the public may be suffering - unless they promise to vote Labour!

I would agree with Jake @ 11.14

Bexie @ 11.08 - 'Culpability Brown: The Credit Card Chancellor and now the Ditherer of Downing Street.' Brilliant