1PM UPDATE: BROWN BACKS DOWN ON EXPENSES VOTE
As The Guardian reports this morning, Conservative and Liberal Democrat MPs are set to join forces to vote against Harriet Harman's attempts to exempt MPs from provisions of the Freedom of Information Act - all in a bid to keep some details of their taxpayer-funded expenses secret.
The original Conservative plan had been for only the Tory frontbench to be whipped on this issue but following an agreement between Alan Duncan, the new Shadow Leader of the House, and David Cameron yesterday, all Conservatives MPs will be expected to vote against "one rule for the taxpayer and a different rule for MPs" - as Mr Duncan puts it. Neither this morning's Times nor Telegraph have caught up with this tightening of the Tory position.
Kate Hoey, David Winnick and Frank Field may lead a rebellion against the Labour whip.
Our congratulations to Alan Duncan on this first judgment call in his new post.
> Join MySociety's Facebook group: I object to MPs concealing their expenses
Quite right too. The Labour Party were quick to condemn many Conservative MP's and MEP's, including Caroline Spelman, for 'offences' which were shown to be within the rules. David Cameron has also taken a strict line against those members unjustly enriching themselves and their families through expense allowances.
That the Labour Party criticised the Conservatives for alleged 'breaches' and later have tried to cover up their own inequitable positions is a clear attempt to "run with the hare, and hunt with the hound".
Hopefully Messr's Field et al. will prove honourable enough to stand against their party's position as they have done before.
Posted by: Craig Matthew Harris | January 21, 2009 at 09:12
I am so pleased. It has definitely convinced me that voting Conservative is the right thing to do.
I need to have faith that the government is honest and truthful. We have had too many lies, too much spin and MP's attempts at making themselves above the law is contemptable.
Thank you :)
Posted by: Sue | January 21, 2009 at 09:23
Very good news, a excellent start from Alan Duncan. Now please deal with the gold plated pension scheme for MP's. This too must be addressed and their pensions should be subject to market forces and not protected and paid for by the tax payer.
Posted by: Paul | January 21, 2009 at 09:33
Good! About time too. Sadly, I bet the payroll vote etc will assure that Labour can keep their perks secret.
Posted by: Steve Foley | January 21, 2009 at 09:35
Great move. I'm very pleased to hear this. I just hope none of our bedblockers vote with Mrs Dromey in order to extract as much from the trough before they're forced to step down.
Posted by: Cleethorpes Rock | January 21, 2009 at 09:46
Good call!
Posted by: Owen Meredith | January 21, 2009 at 09:47
10/10 for our Dave, and a great start for Duncan - 60% here we come :-)
Posted by: pp | January 21, 2009 at 09:49
This will keep David Cameron's party in the media again and boost their opinion poll ratings
Posted by: Floating Voter | January 21, 2009 at 10:00
Apologies for the plug, but I did a big investigation into what MPs are now allowed claim at the taxpayers expense under the new rules and it made for disturbing reading.
Posted by: Letters From A Tory | January 21, 2009 at 10:02
The real reason that Harman & Co want to keep their ill gotten gains secret is because they are probably all fiddling their expenses to the max right now. This is because most of them will not be re-elected at the next General Election and since getting a job will not be an option for them, they will need every pound they can lay their hands on.
Posted by: Ian | January 21, 2009 at 10:05
Absolutely disgusting that Brown has ordered his MPs to vote on a three line whip to keep what they're spending our money on secret.
How dare he?! HOW BLOODY DARE HE?! It is our money, the taxpayers money, not his money!!! How can him and Harman have the nerve to say that we aren't allowed to know what MPs are spending our money on?!
I thought they liked to be thought of as the forward thinking progressive party?! How is blocking us from knowing what they are spending our money on in any way progressive or forward thinking?! What happened to democracy and accountability?! The parliaments of the nineteenth century were more progressive and forward thinking than this lot!
Any MP who votes to keep the expenses secret should be voted out of parliament at the next election, full stop.
Well done to Cameron and Duncan, but anything else would have been unthinkable.
Posted by: James Hopkins | January 21, 2009 at 10:15
I heard a bit of this last week and I found myself rather confused about the Tory policy on this. Seems opportunist to me but at least they got it right eventually. MPs should show receipts.
Posted by: James Maskell | January 21, 2009 at 10:21
Clear blue water...
Brown is whipping the other way http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7841702.stm.
Funny that when labour launched their NHS charter document thing this morning Aluns support was "its what people said they want" and "£1,000,000 is not much money".
Meanwhile Harman has pulled the entire government machine into operation to (supposedly) save a few quid scanning receipts...
Not to mention the trillions disappearing into broken banks.
Posted by: pp | January 21, 2009 at 10:25
It is all very well to be self-congratulatory about this, but remember that this iniquitous idea only came "from Harriet Harman, leader of the House, after Labour backbenchers and Tory grandees on the 1922 committee lobbied her to try to force through the exemption in the Commons."
If it hadn't been whipped it would have been interesting to see how many Tory MPs had voted in favour ...
And it was reported in last Friday's Guardian that “A Tory source said David Cameron was likely to encourage his MPs to abstain on Thursday” - hardly the great commitment to Freedom of Information you are making this out to be.
Posted by: Liberalone | January 21, 2009 at 10:30
100% agreement. We need an honest Government NOW! Something we have not had for 11 years. Gordon Brown loves giving OUR money away. Every time he goes abroad he gives more millions - the latest £20 million to Gaza is the last straw - when we can't afford to look after ourselves.
Posted by: Roy Seeman | January 21, 2009 at 10:43
Well done Alan!
Even the new 'stronger' expense rules are nothing of the sort.
MP's now have to provide receipts for all items over £25. In all my jobs in the private sector, the rules have been if you have no receipt, then you can't claim, no matter how small the value.
I'll watch with interest how my local Labour MP votes, also I hope ConHome will be reporting any Conservative MP that votes against the whip.
Posted by: Dave H | January 21, 2009 at 11:09
It's the right thing to do. I expect the government will probably win and I hope they get slaughtered in the media for it. No doubt newspapers like the Sun will lambast them but it will be interesting to see how the BBC handle this story. I expect it to be down played to a great extent. A nice contrast with their behaviour over Tory sleaze in the early '90's.
Posted by: Malcolm Dunn | January 21, 2009 at 11:10
good stuff
Councillors' allowances next?
2008 survey imminent
Posted by: Another Councillor | January 21, 2009 at 11:18
So will David Maclean be conveniently absent from the House tomorrow?
Posted by: sjm | January 21, 2009 at 11:20
Is this some kind of mass suicide pact by Labour MPs?
Posted by: Jon W | January 21, 2009 at 11:23
Very good move,supported by all I`m sure including UKIPpers!
Posted by: Edward Huxley | January 21, 2009 at 11:38
It would be a valid point, during the campaign at the next election, to point out that every Labour MP who refused to rebel against Brown's three line whip, is either a coward or a crook.
Posted by: David Parker | January 21, 2009 at 11:43
Does anyone else see the irony that Labour, which introduced the FOI act and made it one of the centrepieces of their 97 manifesto are now trying to drive a coach and horses through it?
It's too disgusting for words. Sadly my MP is Sinn Fein and won't take his seat so I just hope that MP's from all other parties, Tory, LD, SNP, Plaid and from NI join with the few remaining people of conscience on the Labour benches to vote this travesty down! I suspect what is going on here is Harman trying to curry favour with Labour MP's as part of her lobbying to take over from Brown after the election. Either way it's totally shameful!
Posted by: South Down Tory | January 21, 2009 at 11:47
Quick off the mark Alan!!
Well done and quite right!
Posted by: Peter Botting | January 21, 2009 at 11:51
Bang on.
The Conservatives should go further and declare that all MP's expenses should be made permanently publicly available ie on the internet and bring in a motion to that effect.
Posted by: Jake | January 21, 2009 at 11:51
Well said, Roy Seeman:
"100% agreement. We need an honest Government NOW! Something we have not had for 11 years".
Honesty and transparency will prove just as good as vote winners as many other more obvious policies.
Posted by: David Belchamber | January 21, 2009 at 11:58
I agree that there should be full disclosure by every public servant of all all their expenses, publishing every receipt, but I wonder how much this will all cost? I don't believe that there should be any exceptions (e.g.Police, Army, Councillors,Advisors, Quangos,Civil Servants) MPs should not be picked out as the only ones that need to do this.
Posted by: Robert | January 21, 2009 at 12:04
completely agree.
there is NO excuse for voting otherwise.
I have been badgering my local Tory MP to this effect.
We need to drive home the point to the general public as well.
Posted by: support the strivers | January 21, 2009 at 12:53
Now that Labour have chopped the vote to avoid the negative publicity, we need to look out for their next ambush. The issue will need o be addressed sometime soon. The question is "How will Labour play it?"
Labour may very well calculate that they can offer a free vote, still have most of their MPs vote for the secrecy measures and get the support of a handful of greedy Conservatives like the Wintertons. The vote could be passed on a free vote in a way which reflects badly on MPs of all sides.
We need to whip our MPs against the plan, whatever the government do.
Posted by: Cleethorpes Rock | January 21, 2009 at 13:47
Personally, I think all expenses paid by the public purse to our servants should be in the public domain and listed on the internet for the world to see them.
As with Labour's ID Cards, "If you've nothing to hide then you've nothing to fear".
I'll not hang about waiting for them to tell me why it is a different line when it comes to a politician ( or any public servant ), having something which they 'do' fear.
Clear Blue Water on this one please.
Posted by: rugfish | January 21, 2009 at 13:54
Brown - flip flap flop - free vote (with no indication of no10s view this time around...), then 3 line whip, cancelled...
I am not surprised he backed out off - this would have been a vote of no confidence.
Brown is hoist by his own hubris - he insists he has all the answers, so cannot be seen to be uncertain, or to change his mind.
The shadow front benches responsivenes to this issue should be built upon - obviously not as wishy-washy puppets of public oppnion - but certainly solidily plugged in to it.
PMQ's could become compulsory viewing for all...
Posted by: pp | January 21, 2009 at 14:42
I think it's about time we started to see how many Labour MPs have been making extraordinary claims. There have been far too many Tories in the spotlight and no Labour MPs that I can remember. Odd that.
Posted by: Andrew S | January 21, 2009 at 14:43
A very good move!
Posted by: Julian L Hawksworth | January 21, 2009 at 14:52
I believe the nation should have a good look at the books of the likes of the Blair. Of course we have a right to know. Most especially we have the right to know about their Mp's. I think we should also be clear about their share holdings etc. There is certinly a lot of money sloshing around these people can we really be certain if they feel they have a right to hide their personal positions.
Posted by: The Bishop Swine | January 21, 2009 at 15:17
Bishop - I beleive that many of Blairs receipts were 'accidently' shredded some time ago...
However, even though he origiannly owned a house outright - he subsequently took out a new mortgage on it and claimed the interest from us...
I did do some digging a while back - asking how this expense could be considered 'wholy, exclsively and necesarily' incurred in his capacity as an MP (as requried under the rules) - and got as far as the HoC authorities saying that if an MP makes a claim and says that it is within the rules, then they accept their word. Also that as he is no longer an MP they would not be in a position to do anything about it anyway!
Posted by: pp | January 21, 2009 at 15:39
If the 1922 Committee really did back the FOI ban, they want shooting.
Then sending on a compulsory training course on "How to do politics in the age of mass media."
Muppets - did they really think the Government wouldn't dump them in it if it came to this?
Posted by: Matthew Taylor | January 21, 2009 at 17:57
Matthew - I totally agree.
If the 1922 comittee are the dinasours this makes them out to be then someone should be considering whether they are going to be the tories 'militant tendency'...
However if they were just setting the government up for this fall...
Posted by: pp | January 22, 2009 at 08:34
Re MPs remuneration, one way of them regaining support from the public is to make MPs salary a multiple of the average wage. Then when pay goes down in a recession the politicians can be seen to share the public's pain. Very good PR.
Posted by: Janet | January 23, 2009 at 19:09