William Hague: There are no circumstances in which the next Conservative Government will propose joining the Euro

The President of the European Commission, Jose Manuel Barroso, has reignited the debate about Britain's membership of the Euro by telling a French radio station that "the people who matter in Britain are currently thinking about [joining]."

Within the thread for today's homepage Richard Robinson suggests that Lord Mandelson leads those "people who matter".  In 2003, Mandelson linked membership of the Euro to his understanding of centre left politics:

“The euro issue goes to the heart of the UK's national economic interest. But Britain's place in Europe is also at the heart of the left's project in this country. You can be pro-European and not of the centre-left but you cannot be of the centre-left and not committed to Britain playing its full part in Europe. It is fundamental to our ambition of creating a Britain rooted in the best of centre-left values: greater equality, solidarity and opportunity. That's why Labour - as the party of full employment and higher living standards for working people in today's globalised economy - supports European integration and euro entry.”

Interviewed on Saturday, Lord Mandelson renewed his support for the euro but ruled out serious discussion of membership until the current economic crisis had passed.

Shadow Foreign Secretary William Hague - whose leadership of the Conservative Party did so much to prevent Britain joing the euro - has reacted by ruling out membership if the Conservatives form the next British Government:

“It is extraordinary that certain politicians are whispering to the EU Commission about joining the euro behind the British people’s backs. Keeping the pound is vital for Britain’s economic future. We need interest rates that are right for Britain, not the rest of Europe.  There are no circumstances in which the next Conservative Government will propose joining the Euro. If Labour ministers still want to get Britain into the euro they should come out and say so. We will be putting questions to the Government to find out what conversations have been going on.”

65% of Tory members recently said that they "never" wanted UK membership of the eurozone.

Comments

[GB£.com]

Well done. A perfectly unequivocal statement of intent.

Welcome news indeed.

[Tony Makara]

There is no way Labour could force the Euro on us without a referendum, should that moment occur we can easily destroy their arguments by pointing out the fragility of the Euro. Namely, the fact that the Euro is only as good as the European project. Should that that project unravel at some time in the future due to changing domestic sentiment in member nations, then the value of the Euro would sink to chaotic levels. The Euro is a risky economic venture based on faith in a political body that itself is open to change at any given time.

[Paul Oakley]

the people who matter in Britain are currently thinking about [joining]

That says it all. Clearly, the views of the great mass of the British public do not matter to Barroso.

[Dorothy Wilson]

Thank goodness for the Conservatives! Keep it up! Can't you tell Mandelson is back in the Labour fold?

DAWilson

[Alex]

Barroso had just told the majority of the UK that they don't matter.

[Malcolm Dunn]

Wonder what Barroso's agenda is here? Whilst sterling is in the doldrums the Euro has very serious problems too with some of the EU economies pulling apart rather than converging.
For the first time British interest rates are below those of the Eurozone so why would anyone of sane mind want to consider the Euro now?
Perhaps he's been listening too much to Mandelson or is there something else?

[rugfish]

Yet another drop in UK mortgage lending is shown for October 2008, with a measly figure of only £459m.

Yes that's million and not billion.
And taking an average of £120,000 per mortgage that would represent less than 4,000 mortgages were loaned which represents 6% ( yes 6% - or a drop of 94% ) of the same month last year.

But it gets worse.
Firstly, around 25% of those figures represents loans to first time buyers.
This means only 1,000 on average, first time buyers were given NEW mortgages in October.

It's quite incredible when you then think of the loss of stamp duty alone ( £6billion ), that the government has taken no preventive measures in the housing market. Notleast for reason tens of thousands of builders and tradesmen, manufacturing companies, white goods, carpet retailers, manufacturers and an unlimited number of other businesses and people all rely on the housing market for business, trade and jobs !

There are some who'd say our economy shouldn't all be geared toward the housing market and rising house prices and that instead of lowering interest rates for borrowers, the government should increase savings rates.

They offer no alternative as to what they would do to actually build and maintain our economy given we have nothing of a manufacturing base and a balance of payment deficit through the European roof!

There are some who would say house prices are too expensive and they should be allowed to fall. But little do they realise that our economy much unlike many others, relies mostly on the financial and retail sectors rather than manufacturing, and thus the creation of liquidity through finance which has for the last 20 years driven our economy, is of paramount importance if they are ever to enjoy sustainable asset values and gain interest on their savings which will match inflation which we will inevitably see growing on services and utilities and our taxes in future.

Granted there are many signs of deflation occurring in food now and also in many outlets such as clothing with early 'sales' knocking up to 70% off the normal retail price, but these are mostly down to businesses trying not to go BUST and it will be short lived.

Pretty soon as retailers have to buy more stock they'll find their suppliers has already gone bust and taken lots of their customers pay cheques with them which once fed their sales.

Savers will find their own assets have devalued so considerably that they'll wonder whether if things had been different and if some action had been taken whether the actual growth on the value of their own home was of more benefit than the under-inflation growth on their savings which will not be worth much if it is only keeping pace with rising utility and service costs and higher taxation.

Why has the government not intervened to stabilise the housing market then ?

Again I put here what I think is a very valid number of actions they could take to stabilise this problem :-

1 - Remove stamp duty and place it to the seller.

2 - Bring back MIRAS.

3 - Offer loan guarantees to banks for lending to strategic businesses.

4 - Promote the building of new social housing.

These actions taken together would stabilise the housing market, businesses and jobs and it would protect the revenues from these whilst confidence is restored in our economy.

But since this is such an obvious thing to me I have to conclude by seeing inaction from our government, that it has intentionally taken a political decision not to and the only reason I can find for the government helping to smash our economy through its inaction is to allow sterling to drop to such a level where entry to the Euro appears both inevitable and desirable.

Without doubt, we have a "do nothing government" and a "do nothing Prime Minister" which are taking us into a "do nothing economy" !!!

[Tynemouth Tory]

"Without doubt, we have a "do nothing government" and a "do nothing Prime Minister" which are taking us into a "do nothing economy" !!!

Posted by: rugfish "

No.

It's worse than that.

[strapworld]

I hope they can get from Brown an absolute assurance that he stands by the Labour Government's pledge to hold a referendum on joining the EURO!

Because we know he will do anything to avoid holding such a referendum.

[rugfish]

Posted by: Tynemouth Tory | December 01, 2008 at 12:12

I agree TT.
The Do Nothing Government is actually taking action to SMASH our economy and rive us to ruin.

Let ONE Labour tw@t mention to me ONE thing about Thatcher's britain ever again and I'll be happy to SMASH his face in !!

NO TO THE EURO NO TO LABOUR'S DICTATORSHIP AND NO TO ANYTHING WHICH HAS GORDON BROWN'S HAND IN IT !

[John Coles]

Well said William Hague.

[David]

Hague may say say this, but the Conservative Party in Westminster government would not have to 'PROPOSE' to join the euro, the true government in Brussels would simply tell them they have to do it under EU law.

[John Smith]

This shows why Hague et al are simply unready for government; to say that they will never do something, to rule it out so unequivocally is foolish and short sighted. There are a huge range of circumstances in which membership would be beneficial - to rule it out in those cases shows their desire to inflict pain and damage simply in the name of undue sentimentality. That's not the course of a government in waiting, it's the course of petutulant columnists.

[rugfish]

Posted by: John Smith | December 01, 2008 at 12:

State the circumstances which YOU think could be applied and I'd like to bet William Hague has already considered it.

If he has then he can state "there are no circumstances" etc ( if he has 'already' considered them ).

They are not the actions of someone who is unready but more the actions of someone who's twelve steps ahead of others on this issue.

Perhaps if you want to know his 'reasoning' then you could start with reading the umpteen arguments he's made on Hansard over the last 20 years ?

[Sir Hillary]

David at 12:48:

That sounds terribly pessimistic, defeatist and, frankly, pathetic.

The Lisbon Treaty which you all worked so hard to scupper had an explicit, copper-bootomed, international treaty-legally enforceable opt-out of the Euro for the UK.

Happy now?

[GB£.com]

LoL John Smith,
So you support the approach of keeping our options open about adopting a new currency other than the Euro, like the USD?

It would be petulant to limit our choice to just the sentimentality of the Euro, as I am sure you agree.

[Stewart Geddes]

John Smith you clearly do not understand that the population are heartily sick of obfuscation. They want people to say what they believe, and then to stand by it.

Bravo to William Hague for saying clearly that we will not join the Euro.

What we need to find out now is who does Snr Barroso mean by "the people who matter in Britain are currently thinking about [joining]."

[GB£.com]

"The Lisbon Treaty which you all worked so hard to scupper had an explicit, copper-bootomed, international treaty-legally enforceable opt-out of the Euro for the UK."

Hmmm, is this like the same copper-bottomed pledge to drop all symbols relating to the EU that were reintroduced just a few weeks later?

Or the same copper-bottomed Treaty that required unanimous support, but when Ireland voted 'no', they simply kept going in their own direction anyway and will make the dissenters vote again and again until the public vote 'correctly'?

Yep, you can trust the copper-bottomed pledges of the EU alright...

[rugfish]

The Lisbon Treaty has more a Mercury bottomed guarantee which you can put your hand right through and which is toxic if you swallow it.

NO to the Euro ( EVER ), and NO to Lisbon ( EVER ).

It's the only way we can head off in one direction with determination to make Britain itself have value again.

( Except for getting rid of Labour that is )

[Sally Roberts]

Good. It needed to be said. Thank you William.

[JS]

How very sad that Hague's jingoistic noises are supported by so many in the party. We'll probably be having men with red flags walking in front of our cars again if they have their way. Do none of them want any political progress or to join the modern world ?

[rugfish]

The UK balance of payment deficit with Europe, strangely matches half our national debt figure.

Europe's main customer for goods is no more.

Instead it seeks to promote trade for itself by soaking the last remnants out of our financial houses and leaving us bone dry whilst IT passes money about to all and sundry without our say so.

It is a CON.

Anyone falling for it is either blind, a fool or both.

[Sally Roberts]

"We'll probably be having men with red flags walking in front of our cars again if they have their way."

Certainly not! Blue flags...please!! :-)

[Mr Angry]

Yes that is a clear and unequivocal statement alright. Just like leaving the EPP within weeks and not months was.

Unfortunately the actual evidence is that we cannot trust the Shadow Cabinet on Europe any further than we can trust Labour.

[Mr Angry]

Oh and JS; losing control of your economy and your country is not progress, it is entirely the opposite.

[GB£.com]

"Do none of them want any political progress or to join the modern world ?

I can only ask again. If you want to consider ditching our 'little' currency for another to enable us to 'join the modern world', why does your debate only offer the Euro as the alternative, not the USD or other emerging powerbase currencies for example?

Your 'strong' Euro has collapsed against the USD since June.

No euphile wants that kind of debate, do they?

[rugfish]

WORLD debt is what you need to think about and that figure is higher than TOTAL world output. It's around 16 Trillion dollars.

No government on earth can do anything about it except to print money.

If they print money on their own then inflation will rise.

Thus they MUST ruin asset values ( and jobs ), in order to contain inflation.

The UK balance of payment deficit with Europe, strangely matches half our national debt figure.

Europe's main customer for goods ( the UK ), is no more able to buy their goods and they are no longer ( or soon won't be ) able to make them because they will be out of work too.

Instead it seeks to promote trade for itself by soaking the last remnants out of our financial houses and leaving us bone dry whilst IT passes money about to all and sundry without our say so.

It is a CON.

Anyone falling for it is either blind, a fool or both.

The Euro could be devastated immediately over night if Britain exchanged its reserves so if our economy falters to the point where emergency measures are necessary then it is WE who have the upper hand NOT Europe.

We also have the upper hand with trade and financial products and with many many foreign investments which are nothing to do with Euro la la land and its Mickey Mouse money.

The OBVIOUS thing to consider, due to the ECB giving away its reserves to support European member states ( not us ), and to enlarge itself and to continue its ludicrous money wasting programmes, is that it needs MORE reserves ! ( OURS ) !!

Mandelson is a crooked spin doctor, he's not elected nor is Barroso.

I prefer to consider these things when I call myself a British Democrat and a Conservative.

[James Maskell]

Barosso was just kicking up a stink because after all whats the worst that can happen...Britain decides to stay out? So what, its the current British position not to enter. Hes got nothing to lose through his comments and there is a risk that the Tories will get angry over nothing. Its a big bear trap by the Tories wanting to talk about EU membership as if its the only thing that matters right now.

I pray that Hagues comments will be the only ones right now.

[JS]

[email protected] -we don't appear to have done so very well 'controlling' our own economy to date! Would you like the country to rest an insignificant off-shore island of the continent and under the control of an United States which always pursues it's self-interests? That is the danger of staying out of the EU.

[rugfish]

Posted by: James Maskell | December 01, 2008 at 15:35

You could have something there JM, as the only issue which could divide us is that of Europe.

It could well be a 'Brown' bear trap !!

[Sally Roberts]

"Its a big bear trap by the Tories wanting to talk about EU membership as if its the only thing that matters right now."

James you are right! I was just thinking how marvellous it was that Conservatives were all pulling together when suddenly..wham....along comes a Euro topic and here we go again!!!

[David]

Yep, here we go again - because people don't trust claims of standing up to Europe by the likes of Hague - we've been let down too many times by phoney sceptic-talk.

[Ken Stevens]

Sally
"Conservatives were all pulling together when suddenly..wham....along comes a Euro topic and here we go again!!!"

Ain't nuffink to stop you pulling together with us 'here-we-go-agains'!

Look upon it as the Tories' potential Unique Selling Point, as compared to the other two main parties' EUphilia. At last the inklings of clear blue water between the three mobs?
;-)

[GB£.com]

"[email protected] -we don't appear to have done so very well 'controlling' our own economy to date!"

Um, you should try reading Ambrose Evans-Prichard's article in the Telegraph today.

There are global problems, but the Euro zone is the place facing the biggest challenge to its existence.

Remember the countries who have gone to the IMF with the begging bowl are eurozone countries!

In comparison, the US and UK don't seem too bad.

And if Mandelson is secretly talking about Euro entry, isn't he being very unBritish and talking down the GBP?

[Votedave]

William Hague is spot on.

I'm not sure what Labour's standpoint on the Euro is these days - could anyone tell me?

[Sally Roberts]

Votedave I have a feeling they are not entirely sure themselves!
As for Ken - I luv you dearly but you know my views on the subject! My belief is that William Hague is absolutely spot on in what he says and I do wish people would take him at his word.

[Cranmer]

Hmm...

Is this a pledge, a promise, or an aspiration?

[grumpy old man]

Lefties should remember, (or may be they don't want us to remember) that the ratio of UK subjects is 2 against to one for, monitary union and has been so for the last 10 years at least. this means that 2/3 of Brits in all parties ( except single issue parties), don't want the Euro. The political carnage which would result if Labour took us into the Euro would be such that the Bottler might even remember that he is the unelected PM, not Mandy, before agreeing to this step.

[meli]

Thank you Mr. Hague.
I find it interesting that Mr. Barroso said he had been speaking with the "people who matter". Maybe he doesn't realise that we live in a Democracy where all people matter or at least that is the principle of the idea.
Even if Sterling were to drop below the Euro in value I would not vote in favour of joining the Euro. What goes down must eventually come up again. Nor can I be tempted with interest rates. I am not so eager to give away something so important and meaningful for a bit of pocket change. Especially in such an unsure global economic crisis. Sterling at least has been tried and tested by time. Let's face it, we have precious little left that is still ours.

[Mark Williams]

Come on everybody wise up. When Barroso says that he has been speaking to unnamed British political figures he means Mandelson.

Q: Why does Mandelson make a point of talking about the euro if it is peripheral to his brief?
A: To wind up some/many/most Conservatives.

So see it for what it is and ignore it.

[The Bishop Swine]

"the people who matter in Britain are currently thinking about [joining]."

In other words the administration in power is looking at the Euro as a way of smoke screening the mess they have made of our economy. Now that they have squandered our economic advantage maybe they hope to gain some currancy stability from the hard saving German’s. I don’t personally know anyone who wants to be in the Euro, and indeed I know a number of people who want a full return to LSD. Thank you William; for stating again the obvious, the lines between the parties is becoming much clearer. The statement quoted above is as arrogant as you would expect from a Europhile, he is wrong, as the people who really matter are the electors of Great Britain and they do not want monopoly money

[NigelJ]

John Smith: "This shows why Hague et al are simply unready for government; to say that they will never do something, to rule it out so unequivocally is foolish and short sighted."

What a truly ridiculous statement.So if the Tories say they will never introduce a police state, or never recommend euthanasia, or Sharia Law would that fall into your category of not ever saying you will never do something? Of course a shadow cabinet can say it will never introduce a range of things. It has taken a collective shadow cabinet view and expressed that position. Ideological? Yes, but sincere and clear no doubt.

[Blakeukip]

On the Euro, I do not think we can sincerly believe the Conservative Party Policy of defending Sterling on this issue. We have the Conservative Euro MEP Mr Beasley speaking in the European Parliament saying 'He is looking forward to the Conservative's winning the the next General Election so that we can join the Euro currency. Mr David Cameron will not support the demand on the referenda on the Lisbon Treaty because G Brown has already signed it. The Treaty of Lisbon indicates, which every one knows and its been mentioned here the Euro will be the currency of all Nations States of the EU! So who is the Tory leadership kidding?