PMQs: Brown makes 'We not only saved the world' gaffe

EDITORIAL VERDICT: Clear win for David Cameron. Brown was put on the defensive over underwriting bank lending. DC is determined to make it clear that the Conservatives are not the 'do nothing' party on the economy. But PMQs won't be remembered for the serious exchanges but for Brown's 'We not only saved the world gaffe'. Thanks to Crown Blogspot it's already on YouTube. Watch it here.

Highlights, not verbatim:

12.24pm: Replying to a question from on the programme that will broadcast an assisted suicide, the Prime Minister says he has always opposed legislation to introduce assisted dying. Programmes have a duty to cover these sensitive issues without sensationalism.

12.15pm: Clegg raises the case of a single parent who came to his constituency surgery with young children [before he could go any further there is much laughter - you can guess why] facing legal action because of Brown's "cruel, bureaucratic and confusing" tax credits system. He calls for a new system of simple and fixed payments.  A fixed system, says Brown, would mean that people would not receive extra help when they hit severe difficulties.

12.12pm: Brown is on the wrong side of maths, counters Cameron. Labour is only supporting 0.2% of potential lending to business. Brown has brought Britain to the brink of the deepest recession in the G7. Brown says Tories are not fit for government because they are trapped in the 1980s.

12.10pm: The key issue, reiterates Cameron, is to get bank lending flowing again. That's the Bank of England Governor's view. The VAT cut is pointless. Will the Prime Minister endorse our National Loan Guarantee Scheme? The IoD, CBI and FSB all have. On the day that Labour is copying Tory welfare ideas this is another idea that the Government should copy. Brown says that Labour already operate schemes that underwrite financing to businesses. Nothing will help the economy, the PM concludes, without a supporting fiscal stimulus. The Tories are on the wrong side of history.

12.08pm: If things are going so well why is the Council of Mortgage Lenders talking about about "conflicted" government policies? Brown says Tories would let recession take its course.

12.06pm: David Cameron says all over the country there are businesses having overdraft facilities withdrawn. The world is NOT copying the details of the Government's recapitalisation plan. The Government is lending to banks at 12% but insisting that they lend at 6%. Brown responds by defending his fiscal stimulus. The Tories are clinging to the failed policies of the 1980s, he says.

12.04pm: David Cameron asks about getting bank lending flowing again. Recapitalisation's main aim was to get credit flowing again and it has failed. Brown replying accidentally says "we not only saved the world"! Hysterical laughter from Tory benches.

Tim Montgomerie

Comments

[John]

Save the world by

Flush Gordon

[Iain]

Cameron was good, he made good points on the economy and banking.

[John Leonard]

Gordon's 'Live-Aid' moment.

Save The World

Gordo's obviously spending too much time listening to his own 'super-hero' propaganda.

Purely on that gaff marginal victory for Cameron today. Otherwise a draw simply because none of us know how the economy will respond in the medium term.

If it does not then Brown is finished.

[Sally Roberts]

Gordon is going to Save the World??!! Now I know he's lost touch with reality!

[Lucy]

Where can I get the verbatim 'Save the World' Q&A? Am at work and can't get Play Political. (And yes I am on my lunch break.)

[Dominic]

Prime Ministers Question Time is a sham and the only interesting event was Brown proclaiming himself the saviour of the World.
The BBC coverage of Daily Politics makes my blood boil with Neil constantly knocking the Conservatives and bending over backwards to accommodate Labour it is about time a hard hitter put this man in his place.Neil is not funny yet on every oppotunity he trys to poke fun at the most important issues

[Jack Stone]

Brown did make a good point when he said that Cameron advocated spending nothing one day than billions the next. The Brown line on the econonmy is far clearer and consistent and that is why Brown is gaining support.
Cameron needs to sharpern up on the economy or he can say goodbye to winning the next election.
Highlighting the Brown gaff is just schoolboy politics in my opinion and says more about those who harp on about it than Brown himself.

[not an economist]

I am sorry but the "saved the world" slip leaves me with an image in my mind of Gordon standing in front of a mirror in a Superman style outfit, complete with cape, mouthing those very words to his reflection.

If it were not for the fact that conditions are so serious at the minute I would dismiss GB as being a seriously sad person at this point ...

[Ian Bennett]

js - i FEAR YOU ARE SPOT ON..

Editor - I'm afraid you'll have to take your specs off if you thought that was anything better than a score draw!

Sat with colleagues - they all laughed hysterically at Browns "save the world gaffe" - they laughed even more when one Labour wag retorted "yes and Camerons saving Damian Green"....

Cameron is failing to get any kind of coherent message accross....as JS points out - maybe becasue it changes by the day!

[Ben Archibald]

Surely a viral of 'Crash Gordon' should be made very soon.

[Peter Buss]

Don't get this "inconsistency line" at all. For some time now both Cameon/Osbourne and indeed ken Clark have been saying that this fundamentally is a banking crisis and until that is properly soted then nothing substantive will happen. hence for some weeks now Cameron et al have been saying that all the efforts should be focussed on that and having talked to business leaders etc they have for yonks now been saying that the best way to get credit flowing to business is through a national cloan guarantee scheme.

I think that recent events have proved Cameron (and indeed others in the Tory Party right) namely that the recapitilisation needs revisitng and improving. Is Brown just too proud to admit that he didn't get it all right?

I am also sick of his lies at PMQ's.Today we had another one when he failed to deal with Camerons very fair point of the CoMotgage Lenders criticism of Browns incoherent and contradictory advice to Banks
and instead accused Cameron of not supporting his mortgage holiday plan - and absolute lie.

[onemarcus]

Sorry Ian B don't really get the Saving Damien Green joke were they in the pub or smoking something when they laughed maybe you had to be there.

Please can some clever person put Brown in a cartoon with a Superman outfit with his pants on the outside swan diving from a desk and saying how he is going to save the world and falling flat on his face with a thump.

[James Maskell]

Theres a beautiful potential PPB. Have a long list of people saying how the world economy is being saved by the Gordon Brown and the plaudits he has received, with Browns own admission here that he is doing and juxtapose it with the list of countries falling into recession, backed up with stats about Britains own economic crisis.

Do it right and it could be an absolute gem. Brown trying to save the world when he cant even save Britain. Make the point that an ego in itself wont save the country.

Like the Crash Gordon line. Very good. Its certainly time for the kid gloves to come off.

[Ian Bennett]

someone should buy the copyrite VERY QUICKLY - Like they did with the Bullingdon photographs!

[Ian Bennett]

JM - Of course there is also the dire prospect of Mandy and Campbell showing the Tory Parliamentary Party having a huge laugh....in the midst of a global economic crisis....

[Peter Buss]

Ian B - Mandy would have a problem doing that as the Labour benches collapsed in girlish laughter at Nick Cleggs question !!

[onemarcus]

I am sure there were plenty of Labour MPs who also laughed out loud at that gaffe (and it was a gaffe that will be repeated time and time again), so no need for you to worry Ian B.

[pp]

Nothing on the new, readical welfare reforms - that (aparantly) brown will need tory support to get through?

I think it is worth a discussion on whether the tories should support them or not...

It looks to me like a 'make work' scheme for a load of new government (taxpayer) financed councellors to help people put together 'return to work' plans and monitor them. No stick, no cuts, no deadlines, no savings - just new money on new public sector employees with their gold plated pensions.

The headline is a well crafted trap to get tory support for a larger state and normalise the vast number of people currently on benefits - as ever with labour, the content bares no relation to what it says on the tin...

[Votedave]

"The BBC coverage of Daily Politics makes my blood boil"

Did anyone see the BBC News at 10 last night?! They highlighted a poll just because it was favourable to Brown, though I noticed they completely ignored what the polls were saying a few months ago. I thought it was their policy not to mention opinion polls.

[David Sergeant]

I don't know what it proves but I wonder if the BBC is all that bad. To-day's Telegraph put DCs economic speech on a small area of P4 but a blatent bit of Labour PR about energy costs on the front page. I would have thought that Cameron calling for a general election in connection with his economic speech is serious stuff in to-day's economic climate, clearly even the Telegraph was happy to sideline it having been given a non story by Labour. Now we know why there is a Brown bounce and, indeed, a Labour government.

[Jamal McAkhbar]

Not very nice to watch this Labour government, and all its apparatchiks working so hard to reinforce ZanuLabor Groupthink to "assist" the slow, financial suicide of our country. At least we can take comfort in all those people who are willing to pretend that they prefer ZanuLabor, and thus trick the pollsters into giving Comrade Broon the green light for his personal oblivion. Not long now. Keep on telling the media what they want to hear and watch ZanuLabor hostages adore their guards.

[Norm Brainer]

I don't know what it proves but I wonder if the BBC is all that bad. To-day's Telegraph put DCs economic speech on a small area of P4 but a blatent bit of Labour PR about energy costs on the front page.

Whereas the BBC were running with the fact that Cameron was wanting an election, and that's why they mentionned the closing polls.

Yes, there is bias at the BBC, but I get the feeling people often make things of what isn't there.

Not sure about daily politics - Andrew Neil is always making fun out of brown calling him "our great leader" etc.

[The Bishops Swine]

Save the World ? What a gaff.

I noticed that the BBC is reporting a small lead, to the Conservatives, this is seems to be classic misinformation. So who exactly is pulling the strings at the beeb. I suppose I can admire Labours skill at spinning a clear lead into a very small advantage. It would be very wrong of the BBC to engage in talking down the administration right now, but it’s a thin line between truthful reporting and blatant vote rigging. I know a lot of folk are rightly bothered by the alternative to Labours spending spurge experiment, I however believe that the vast majority of the better educated are as disturbed by debt as by cuts.
It appears that Labour intends to sacrifice a large number of its co-dependants, at least they sound like they might be planning to bite the bullet of Welfare reform. How many times have we been here? Of course something must be done, and we must not enter a new recession carrying the baggage of the last. We need to work out exactly who is entitled to be supported and who should be looking for work, Training or doing something positive. However lets face facts unemployment is going to rise, that rise must not be allowed to undermine the provision of support to the truly needful. Last time around Thousands were given benefits that should only have been applied to hundreds.
Maybe that is putting it to bluntly. Many people are “depressed” they should of course be working and kept from dwelling on their plight. Those who have minor physical problems like the ubiquitous limp should be supported in work. The problem comes when we are presented with the psychotic. Those who can be reached should be encouraged towards the arts. There are many brilliant psychotics who could be making wads of money for the right employer. Of course there is a line to be drawn, as some of these people have dangerous thoughts that should be discouraged in the work place. The Junkies are no problem as long as we are willing to take on staff who are maintained on methadone. If their continued maintenance is linked to continued employment, they will prove to be reliable and hardworking employees. Most people only ask for an even break. Sadly welfare reform is far more likely to be about screwing the easiest to exploit into badly paid employment. The real truth is that we need a certain number of people to do the worst sort of work. Shouldn’t benefits be targeted more at the working than the Unemployed? I see there is nothing for the careers in labours white paper. Maybe that is not a surprise , it best to keep quite about a group that remains under paid and under rewarded , unless you are willing to make the changes that are required. Of course we cannot abandon the truly sick and needy and we should not pretend that we can. Labour hopes that a lot of people will simply go away and get on with it. I don’t want a return of the community program BTW. I think we should set up full-fledged business’s, staff them from the upper 10% of the Civil Service and the unemployed. We know that welfare must be reduced and just as certainly the civil service needs a root and branch trim. Rather than waste money on make-work schemes, we should invest the same money in setting up proper businesses. We have spent large amounts on ensuring our top civil servants are well trained, should we not (in the interest of Great Britain). Encourage these people to serve Britain from the front line of commerce.

[onemarcus]

Quite right Norm, Andrew Neil is probably the best one, think some people see any adverse comment as a sign of bias, if they are not careful they may end up sounding like the Great Leader Gordon the World saviour themselves who of course takes no critisism.

[Susan]

That he can make such a mistake shows he only knows a script and goes 'off-message' when he is disconcerted. Play this around the world and the message that Brown is a loser will get through.

Brown is rattled - keep throwing him Tory buns.

[David Cooper]

In the distant past, Tony Blair once made a classic gaffe at PMQs by coming out with the remark "Let us concentrate on spin and not substance". To give him credit where credit's due, he was able to laugh at himself and put the gaffe behind him. The contrast with today's performance is notable.

[David Belchamber]

I think that David Cameron and the rest of the party just have to stick to the line that we are over-indebted already ("Brown's Bubble Boom") and that, while some fiscal stimulus is desirable, it is (as the German Finance Minister and several others have pointed out) likely to be disastrous to add hugely to our indebtedness in the way Brown suggests.

Cameron has got to be more positive about reducing the size of the largely unproductive public sector - stressing that funding for the vital services will not be reduced, though they will be made more efficient.

Only by slimming down the state can the fiscal stimulus be afforded, though the latter should occur first to be paid for by the former at a later date, so some borrowing will be required in the short term.

Sensible people will understand that a nation has to live within its means, as well as individuals. "Brown's Binging" must cease.

[Votedave]

With you all the way there, David Belchamber.

[pp]

The german finance minister begs to differ - and even the BBC can put a positive spin on this...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7776462.stm

Has he been reading Osbornes notes?

[Patsy Sergeant]

'Brown says Tories are not fit for government because they are trapped in the 1980's'

Brown countering a remark by David Cameron this lunchtime.

Would it not be positive, for Cameron to come straight back at that point and say to Brown: 'Please tell me Mr. Brown how are we trapped in the 80's'.?

I think the culture these days is always for someone to come back and challenge someone who makes a damaging statement like Brown's, and it occurs to me that the public may see it as a weakness that David Cameron and his ministers do NOT come straight back and ask outright HOW tories are 'trapped' in the 80's or 90's! Brown only has time to think of one thing (although some spinner will read this and warn him!!), but he is lousy at thinking 'on his feet'. Anyway, what ever he says it is an opportunity to compare the answer with what Labour has done themselves!!

The very fact that Labour have reiterated this mantra of the 80's and 90's, so frequently, is an admission of WEAKNESS on THEIR part, because it is plainly a co-out, and the only way to call their bluff is to challenge them on it!!! No matter what they say in reply there will be an answer to it, and believe me they will soon drop the habit if Tories come back 'fighting'!!!

[Peter Buss]

Frankly these days I am far far more woried about the political neutrality of Sky than ever I am about the BBC. The latter do silly things at times , I agree, but they were very fair on the Damian Green controversy as just one example. Their weakness seems to be that whenever the Tories issue a statement then they have to get a Govt response - the same thing does not happen in reverse.

Sky are blatant in their support of Brown with the exception of Adam Boulton who seems to me to be the one journalist who is not scared of Brown. All their other presenters ae so pro Brown its unbelievable. Especially noticeable is this on their nightly Press Preview where the Sky presenter will ALWAYS challenge an anti Brown piece or comment whereas this does not happen in reverse. Last night the cat was let out of the bag when Andrew Wilson referred to the 1997 Blair victory as "golden days indeed". I also find that the BBC is more balanced on including matters not favourable to the Govt including for example the German Finance Ministers comments.Anti Govt items are heavily rationd by Sky. On the other hand Paxman is a constant disappointment to me. Last night his interview with Osbourne was ruined as he kept trying to score silly points by trying to get Osbourne to come up with precise details on 2010 spending rather than quiz Osbourne on the central premise of Tory economic thinking with the esult that we were all left spectacularly ill informed rather destroying the point of the Interview.

[Matt Wright]

Re J Stone @ 12.59 - if all we do is highlight the Brown "Save the World" gaffe I would agree it will be childish, however if we suggest how this gaffe is part of other deluded views on the economy and repeat what he has done worng and why, then it will be both truthful and good politics in the interests of the public and aid in getting our important messages across.

[sebhfuar]

Re BBC bias
I caught a snippet in tonight's evening standard about Nick Robinson being "entertained" at Ed Ball's party last night...

I wonder where he gets his "exclusives" from...

[Malcolm Dunn]

Gezmond not show up today? What a suprise!

[Jill, London]

Others have highlighted the German finance minister’s denouncement of Comrade Brown’s proposed ‘drunken sailor’ spending spree. One blog that covers this also says:

“Although Keynesian policies dominated the economic agenda of the western world from more or less the 1930s to the late 70's the actual evidence for them getting any economy out of the depression is weak.” [COMRADE BROWN SAYS THE CONSERVATIVES LOOK TO THE 1980S, BUT HE’S LOOKING BACK EVEN FURTHER!] AND “Mr Steinbruck has a point. You can't spend what you don't make. If the Government fails to "kick start" the rest of the economy then the Government debt burden will result in higher taxes on a smaller economic base making that base less productive and prolonging the recession.” AND “The high stakes risk of adopting the Brown approach is that the Government triggers a run on the currency and a period of stagflation as the devalued currency results in a higher cost of imports. In the long run currency devaluation always results in inflation. The risk is quite high for the UK where the manufacturing base is quite small and the marginal propensity to import is very high. It is less risky for the US.”

Link: http://bankinnovation.net/profiles/blogs/german-finance-minister-peer

As this thread covers Comrade Brown’s clanger – to remain on this subject in a punny way – I’m surprised that Jeremy Paxman’s ‘little joke’ on Tuesday night’s “Newsnight” hasn’t been reported. Paxman was discussing the death of Oliver Postgate – creator of such marvellous children’s characters as The Clangers [what a suitable name for the government of all the Comrades!] – and according to the BBC’s website "an old, saggy cloth cat, baggy, and a bit loose at the seams" Bagpuss. Paxman couldn’t resist saying something along the lines of – ‘Postgate also created Bagpuss – before he was elevated to the Speaker’s chair…’ [Postgate – who has been revealed as a Lefty – would probably have tutted at this ‘smear’ on Gorbals Mick whereas some of us think Bagpuss would make a more effective – and attractive-looking – Speaker!]

[GB£.com]

That gaffe was Brown's Ratner moment.

[George W Bush]

You must feel really clever, laughing at a minor, rapidly corrected verbal slip. What about "we are a grandmother" or the real evil "there's no such thing as society"?

Gordon Brown is showing dynamic leadership and clearly really understands the problems of businesses and individuals caused by irresponsible global markets and badly managed banks. All of the serious political leaders in the world are looking to our government to lead the way and it seems that only Gordon Brown has the intelligence and economic expertise to lead us out of this recession. Far better to help real people and real business now, than sit on your backsides and do nothing like you lot would do. That was what caused 4 million unemployed, negative equity, a housing crisis and a massive shortfall in public funds last time you were in power.

Perhaps you still think that other people's misery is a "price worth paying". It's a shame that what you actually mean by that is that someone else pays.

[Jill, London]

LOL “George W Bush” for parroting the [Comrades’] Party line!

Comrade Brown sang the siren’s song from the [Northern] Rocks that wrecked the British economy. He then hopped back into the boat, and claimed it’s nothing to do with him. But then I’ve heard him claim credit for the fantastic economy he inherited from John Major’s government. Fraser Nelson calls these untruths “Brownies”.

For a truly nauseating experience, listen to Comrade Brown’s unctuous tones on James O’Brien’s LBC show from this morning accusing the USA of presiding over “worthless” assets. Yet Comrade Brown sold half of our gold reserves as if they were “worthless” assets. And with interest rates kept artificially low by this government of all the Comrades savings have virtually been wiped out. As for Comrade Brown helping small businesses – the opposite is happening as they are being slowly strangled by endless bureaucracy brought in since 1997. And I can think of many adjectives to apply to the housing boom he’s presided over – one of them being negligent.

In the words of Fraser Nelson - using Q and A mode:

“1) “What’s happened is that we’ve had a banking crisis that started in America. It makes me incredibly angry about what happened.” Note, with his first breath, he blames this all on America – thus setting the terms of debate. This is the crucial first step in his confidence trick. Northern Rock and B&B were British banks lending money to British households regulated by a British system personally designed by Britain’s Prime Minister. It was as British as Y Fronts and Tizer.

“2) “That has now spread to become not just a financial crisis, but an economic crisis”. This is his SARS virus narrative, utterly fake. Britain has an economic crisis because Brown knowingly pumped the British economy full of under-priced debt, leaving us the biggest household borrowing (178% of income) any G7 country has ever seen. And we’re supposed to blame America for the fact that credit supply choked. The UK is now due the worst recession in Europe due to the recklessness of Brown’s policies.”

There’s more here: http://www.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/3033161/brown-is-blasting-out-his-false-message.thtml

[Eveleigh Moore-Dutton]

I have this horrible mental picture of "Crash" Gordon wearing his underpants outside his trousers...........!!! Yeeeuuuuch!