Will there be a black PM in Downing Street any time soon?

Adam Afriyie - the Conservative MP for Windsor (and tipped by Harry Phibbs as the nearest the Conservative Party has to Barack Obama) - has told The Times that he doesn't expect to see a black MP in 10 Downing Street during his lifetime:

“I do not believe we will see a black prime minister in my lifetime. In the US a fresh face like Obama can make it in one electoral cycle. In Britain it’s generally a gradual process of service and promotion over many years, and often decades, before leading a political party.”

Two immediate qualifications need to be made to Mr Afriye's statement:

• Long service isn't always required. Albeit exceptionally, David Cameron became leader of the Conservative Party after just four years an MP. Nick Clegg rose even faster to head the LibDems (although that may not be an auspicious precedent).
• Margaret Thatcher famously remarked that she didn't expect to see a woman PM in her lifetime.  We all know what happened.

Mr Afriyie was speaking to The Times by way of response to Equality campaigner Trevor Phillips' attack on the British political system's "institutional racism".  Mr Phillips, Head of the Equality and Human Rights Commission and a former Labour member of the GLA, was particularly critical of his Labour:

“If Barack Obama had lived here I would be very surprised if even somebody as brilliant as him would have been able to break through the institutional stranglehold that there is on power within the Labour Party... The parties and unions and think-tanks are all very happy to sign up to the general idea of advancing the cause of minorities but in practice they would like somebody else to do the business. It’s institutional racism.”

The Conservatives have selected a number of ethnnic minority candidates since 2005.  They include Shaun Bailey, Helen Grant, Wilfred Emmanuel-Jones, Priti Patel and Paul Uppal.

Comments

[Iain]

Someone needs to educate Trevor Phillips what our politics and electing a Government is about. Its not as he seems to think about representing skin colour and tribe ,its about representing our political views, and it only takes a moment to look at what Trevor Phillips is suggesting with his cultural Marxist identity politics, to see what a fractured nightmarish world he's proposing.

[Malcolm Dunn]

Not a great question in my opinion. I suspect the answer would be that if someone with Obama's communication skills became prominent in Britain then they could have a shot at being PM.
I know Priti Paatel a bit. She won selection because of her views. She is a popular PPC because she's approachable and hardworking. The colour of her skin really is in my opinion irrelevant.

[promotethewomen]

Helen Grant certainly sees herself as a future leader and Prime Minister. She has been ruthlessly courting her fellow candidates and has told 3 of them that they were her inspiration to join the Conservative Party. Adam Afryie has been a disappointment at Westminster so far. He is a great talent but still seems to prefer his business interests to giving all the politics.

[Biodun]

Afriyie's comments are conflating 2 different issues
1) The speed at which a new entrant could rise to the top and
2) The ethnicity of whoever rises to the top.

He is right that people do not become Prime Minister in the same electoral cycle that first brings them into parliament.

That this would now prevent Britain from having a black PM is a non-sequitur.

[Tim Montgomerie]

Let's avoid this thread becoming personal, "promotethewomen".

[IRJMilne]

It's not as important as in America, because the Prime Minister is not head of state, and because there have never (to my knowledge) been any laws in Britain aimed at restricting the participation of "ethnic minorities" in the parliamentary election process.

I cannot personally imagine a black Prime Minister, but I expect I couldn't have imagined a female Prime Minister in 1975, so it seems unlikely mostly because it is outside my/our experience.

There are the obvious differences between the USA and Britain, that there are more black people both as an absolute number and as a percentage of population in the US, and that they have been there a lot longer.

In any case, I agree with Malcolm Dunn that this isn't a great question.

[IRJMilne]

"Adam Afryie has been a disappointment at Westminster so far"

Rather depends on what you were expecting from him. I've always thought he's a decent MP.

[David_at_Home]

Trevor Phillips and the EHRC seem to intent on filling a similar role to that of the Archbishop of Canterbury and the Church before Henry II brought them under the same law as the rest of us. I hope that our political leaders will find the backbone to rid us of this “turbulent priest” and his arrogant “church” which seems intent on manipulating the law of the land to the advantage of its “priesthood”.

As for Priti Patel, if she became the Tory leader and retained her forthright and welcome views on the integrity of the United Kingdom, I might consider voting Conservative once more. However, she should gain a bit more experience before she has a shot at the top job.

[Tony Makara]

Its all down to the individual, black politicians, until recently have put themselves outside of the mainstream, I'd include Jesse Jackson in that analysis too. However Barak Obama marks a significant departure from that. As a voter, I'm going to vote for the best candidate, whatever his/her colour, I'm not interested in their ethnicity, I'm only interested in their ethics. There is no reason why a black man can't become prime minister, but the issue shouldn't be pushed by political correctness.

During the election coverage on CNN, one of the commentators remarked that the Afro-American community can no longer claim that opportunity is closed to them. This is very true, and in a way its always been true, perhaps they themselves just did not want to believe that they could achieve?

[David]

"During the election coverage on CNN, one of the commentators remarked that the Afro-American community can no longer claim that opportunity is closed to them. This is very true, and in a way its always been true, perhaps they themselves just did not want to believe that they could achieve?"

Hmm. Was there an end to sexism after Barbara Castle or Margaret Thatcher?

[Henry Mayhew - ukipper]

I would like the Conservative Party to give non-Etonians a chance of getting into the leader's inner circle. Let's take it from there depending on how they perform.

[HF]

Adam Afriyie is doing fine, settling in and taking his time. Probably needs a bigger role from DC in the next reshuffle.

[Edward Huxley]

I agree with those who think this is a pointless question. More important; will there be a really good PM in Downing St. any time now?

We can only hope.

[michael mcgough]

Will there be an ABLE PM in Downing Street any time soon?

[rugfish]

I don't see the point of the topic.
PM's in Britain are not elected by the people and hardly ever ( if ever ) capture public opinion or praise.

When they are elected by the people ( and that's hardly ever likely to be the case as it's the Queen's job to appoint the minister which our elected party has chosen ), then there could be an argument raised as to whether "Britain", rather than the political parties stifling democracy here, is "racist".

Until then Trevor Philips should think more about our culture, rather than thinking in terms of black and white like an idiot, and maybe if he began to realise that his own promotion of 'colour' is itself racist, then we might begin to get somewhere.

Whilst I'm on here I have to also say that David Cameron's position of detaching terrorism from Islamism is absolute tosh.

Finally, whether a PM is black, white red or indigo is of no importance as it is his / her intellectual capability, actions, policital ideology and ability to preserve our culture that counts and those things should really be voted on by the people who are made up of black, white red and indigo varieties of British voters who if they wish not to preserve our culture shouldn't be voting.

[Raj]

The one thing about the US candidate system is that it is so drawn out you can get "outsiders" like Obama and McCain winning in the end. At the start both had been written off, yet by the end they were victorious.

Something like that wouldn't work here, so I think it is more down to ethnic minority MPs putting themselves forward. We need to encourage them to stand for election and become MPs where appropriate, but once they're there they can't expect help. No MP can.

[IRJMilne]

"Was there an end to sexism after Barbara Castle or Margaret Thatcher?"

Irrelevant. The point was whether real opportunity exists, not necessarily equal opportunity.

[Old Hack]

By the somewhat mediocre standards of todays political careerists who seem to jostle for Downing St Mr Afriye is hopelessly unsuitable. He's had to meet a payroll, run a business and had lived in the real world. That makes him completely overqualified.

[christina Speight]

I agree with those who say this is pointless. Can we stop this fixation on Obama? He was a second-rate politician with a very undistinguished record in the Senate. He has the gift of the gab and got elected on a 'policy-free' platform of platitudes AND race.

A majority of Whites voted against him (55%) but 95% of blacks and over 66% of Hispanics and 62% of Asians voted for him. He was elected on his race.

In Britain the mechanism is different and nobody gets to be PM without leading a party first (except Brown!) . There's nobody yet in the frame though I see no reason to suppose that it could not happen though these things change slowly. I;m quite happy to vote for anybody whose qualities are suitable and whose views represent mine.

Obama is irrelevant to all this.

[Tony Makara]

"Can we stop this fixation on Obama?"

Easier said than done. My sister who doesn't normally follow politics stayed up all night to watch the man! Whatever his politics, this character is popular, we can't escape that.

[Ben, Newark]

Christina Speight - John Major didn't lead a party first, nor Alec Douglas Home, nor Winston Churchill. This is our system. It isn't better or worse than the one in the US, just different.

I see no reason why there shouldn't be a black PM in my lifetime or another woman. The US system which some are holding up as superior has never elected a woman, despite the fact that women make up the majority.

[Edward Huxley]

If Christina Speight`s figures are right (and I have no reason to doubt her) then as I thought, racism certainly played a part in the U.S election.

An eloquent speaker promising change, who came good at the right time to oust an unpopular government.

Reminds me of a Mr. T.Blair and we all know what happened after that.

We`ll have to wait see what the new US President does after the cheering has died down.

[m dowding]

The way we are going the first Black PM in this country won't be Conservative. In fact as the world crashes around us we appear to worship the great deliverer of the mess we are in. That we look so useless, weak and irrelevant does not bode well for ever seeing a Tory PM again!
I thought I was right to support DC and the summer brief sunshine we enjoyed. Now I feel helpless, demoralised and fed up. We are looking weaker and weaker by the day.
I suspect we shall have and lose an election before Christmas. Now that would jolly things up.

[christina Speight]

Ben Newark All the 3 PMs you mention were accepted by their parties before becoming PMs. Brown was shooed in.

Tony Makara - Your sister - I am sorry to say this - merely epitomises the triumph of packaging over content and is saddening. What did she like - his smile ? - Or his slogans? He had no policy content so it must be something trivial.

[Steve]

Sure! of course we should have people hired not because they are the best most qualified and experiencd person for the job, but simply because they are not white!.

Makes perfect sense doesnt it?.

[Patsy Sergeant]

First I would second Michael McGough @ 10.54 !

Then I would go along with all of rugfish's comments @ 10.59. And also with the third paragraph of IRMilne's comment @ 10.03, about the fact that there are more black people in the US, per head of the population, AND they have been there longer. And also the system of government, aas a whole is different, I am sure there must be black and ethnic representatives in the various State governments? Yes, it is not relevant to compare the two.

[David]

"He was elected on his race."

The context, of course is that the main swing came from Whites and Hispanics; black voters in the US have recently been solid Democrats (around 90%), hence their lack of effect as swing voters.

[rugfish]

Obama is a nice attempt at distraction but it won't work.

Filling our screens up for 6 months whilst the world economy and political arena crashes, is a bad illusionists attempt to conceal the source of the not so magic rabbit.

We have only debt and we have no natural resources therefore we are merely consumers without power except that we might one day have the power of persuasion if we stop upsetting everyone else and first seek mandate from our own people through the much lauded democratic processes which are todate nothing other than a fairytale.

A couple of realities might be faced up to therefore.

1 - We are powerless.
2 - We are undemocratic.
3 - We are in debt.
4 - Nothing we make can't be produced elsewhere.
5 - Our politicians are useless, gutless and bereft of ideas, yet act like they're in charge of the world when everyone knows the worlds future resources lie underneath Russian and Iranian territory.

Let's stop kidding ourselves that we are "great" at anything except conning the public at large and then we can move forward with or without president Obama who got to be president on a race ticket and not because he's the best candidate as he has no government experience to prove otherwise.

As for David Cameron, he's stepped into a world where bold decisions are required and I remain to be convinced he actually has any answers since he's back slapping himself on Europe, taken a wrong turn with Russia, got himself between the main electorate and Islam, delivered not much better than a first year economic student on the economy and seems to think the world will right itself if only poor people will borrow more money and carry on spending money they don't have.

Would someone shake him up a bit and remind him that the world existed before Milton Friedman and O-flipping Bama please !

[Felicity Mountjoy]

This thread disappoints me. There is no appreciation of what a black man in the white House means to people of colour who finally see a non-white achieve high office. I hope a British asian or Black soon becomes PM. The impact on young people could be especially important.

[Janet]

The largest stumbling block to furthering black talent is the opposition (of BOTH parties) to Grammar Schools

[RichardJ]

Will there come a time when we won't be asking questions like this?

[RichardJ]

"This thread disappoints me. There is no appreciation of what a black man in the white House means to people of colour who finally see a non-white achieve high office."

How exactly will it change their lives?

"I hope a British asian or Black soon becomes PM. The impact on young people could be especially important."

In my experience young Asian people are academically successful and well-motivated. Call it cliche if you like but one only has to look at the number of Indian doctors.

[rugfish]

Personally speaking I think Arnold Shwartzenegger should have ran and I think he'd make a perfect president.

He also has experience whereas Obama has nothing except his mouth.

[christina Speight]

First of all I entirely agree with almost every word that Rugfish at 1242 writes . To concern ourselves as the Media have done with this issue while our own country has clearly reached the end of the road is crazy. NOTHING in this country works or is any longer better than anyone else. We are stopped from using to our advantage our own natural resources namely coal and fish by our membership of the EU. There IS nothing else now the City is emasculated. And the Tory leadership is non-existent.
------------------
Felicity Mountjoy at 1243- You prove my point that Obama WAS elected because of his race.

And David at 1227 - YouGov (who were spot on in their forecasts) comments specifically that Black republicans turned democrat for Obama. Certainly a majority voted Democrat before bit - oh no! - NOT 95% of them.

[Norm Brainer]

I don't think we're racist enough to think about it, unlike america, really.... there just so happens there isn't anybody in the frame who is non-white at the moment, and if there was and they became pm then it's not going to get black people to come out to vote for them especially because they are black.
I think we've become more seperatist over the years due to importing it from america who have had very seperate communities for each race, and also from "equal" opportunities laws that keep enforcing the idea that everyone is different and some groups are weaker... and people making statements like the one above don't help.
... so I could see a day when we get to the point where we are told that gay, black women are so weak that one gets voted in because of it.
Hopefully we'll just get more sensible policies & attitudes and yes, someone who isn't white may become pm, but we won't make a song and dance about it.

[David]

"YouGov (who were spot on in their forecasts) comments specifically that Black republicans turned democrat for Obama. Certainly a majority voted Democrat before bit - oh no! - NOT 95% of them."

So did white republicans and hispanics. So I'm not surprised black republicans did either they are like anyone else (especially with some like Palin on the ticket).

Further, I'd be happy to expect black voters to flock to the first black candidate with a realistic chance; many of them will remember personally or just from their parents being unable to vote, let alone stand for office. The symbolism would be irresistible, and as a conservative with, therefore, an understanding of the power of national symobols, I can certainly respect that.

Oh, and black votes for Dems were around the 80-90% mark previously.

[Tony Makara]

Christina Speight, you ask what my sister liked about Barak Obama. Well, I can't speak for her but it was more than just being a case of her liking him as aperson, which she obviously does. I remember that she did mention that she liked how he wanted to be more open on issues and wanted to repair America's image around the world.

I think the fact that people who don't normally follow politics are facinated by Barak Obama says much for his pulling power and the fact that politicians of whatever colour can appeal across the racial divide.

[Tony Makara]

Christina Speight, just a thought, but don't you think the reaction of people who don't follow politics too closely is often a better barometer than people who do?

[Mapa]

The uk has moved on, there is enough voters in the uk that would give the
opportunity to a person of any colour, gender as long as they were the right person for the job with the right policies. irrelevant

hence if Colin Powell was british he would have been Army chief, simple as that.

myself I see the tories are more likely as were the republicans to promote powell & condi etc

[Mark Hudson]

Quite frankly, who cares? I would rather have someone who has the experience and ability to do the job regardless of sex, gender or colour.

Why this obession on race? In point of fact, the Uk is over 92% white caucasian, so the odds are naturally slim on a mathematical basis if nothing else.

[Mark Hudson]

One interesting response from the Republicans in 2012 would be to nominate Bobby Jindal A real talent with a demonstrable track record unlike St. Barack.

[Victor, NW Kent]

Rugfish should perhaps know that only US born people can become President. Arnie was born in Austria. He is also a womaniser, a bigot and quite possibly a supporter of Nazis.

We must also be careful that we do not start up causes to elevate people for matters not connected with ability.

So far the Parliamentary record of black or brown MPs has been rather undistinguished or perhaps distinguished by sectarian interests. They need to up their game substantially and to work as constituency MPs, not as MPs for one racial group.
We have one who is nicknamed "The Member for Calcutta South" and another who is totally invisible unless some black issue is under debate. That must cease.

If a totally outstanding candidate arises there will no barrier to promotion. Trevor Phillips loves to shock us once every 6 months or so with an outre pronouncement. I am not going to support him because he damns my party with faint praise.

[christina Speight]

What Tony and David say prove that Obama's blackness got him elected. I won't pursue Tony's sister's motives since he can't be expected to answer for her. But why didn't he gently point out that owing to the time difference she would have been better going to bed early and setting the alarm clock for 5 am!!! Doesn't show much commonsense sitting up all night.

But when Tony says " reaction of people who don't follow politics too closely is often a better barometer than people who do ' A better barometer for winning elections. But I'm one of the few left it seems who think that recommending what's right for the country is the most importasnt thing. THEM - and only then - does one worry about 'selling' oneself. Obama was all 'spin' and sales pitch with nothing behind it.

He must now be judged on what he actually DOES which may surprise (even) me.

[Sean Fear]

"Will there be a black PM in Downing Street any time soon?"

That's impossible to answer. In a country where 90%+ of the voters are white, it's likely that the Prime Minister will be white. But if someone of sufficient ability came along, who enjoyed a big slice of luck, there's no reason in principle why there shouldn't be a non-white PM.

[Opinicus]

@Ed
"Margaret Thatcher famously remarked that she didn't expect to see a woman PM in her lifetime. We all know what happened."

Doh!

I think that's what he meant, possibly.

[resident leftie]

The Tories historical record on promoting ethnic minorities within their ranks is appalling, and Labour's has been relatively better, so this attempt to rewrite history is pretty distasteful. To be fair to the Tories, there isn't much to appeal to ethnic minorities in their policies, and your strident anti-immigrationism and coded language doesn't help. At least Cameron is doing a little something about it.

Maybe when a black candidate gets in the Bullingdon Club, they'll have a chance at the Tory leadership.

[JohnO]

(Tories leading by 13% in ICM poll for tomorrow's Sunday Telegraph)

[David]

"But I'm one of the few left it seems who think that recommending what's right for the co$untry is the most importasnt thing. "

Rubbish. I think quite a lot of people felt that not putting a woman who thinks the world was created in 6 days or who couldn't name the members of NAFTA (you'd think the clue was in the name really) a heartbeat away from the top job was right for the country.

[Nizhinsky]

I think Margaret Thatcher becoming the first woman prime minister says everything about what is great about Britain.

Nobody but nobody voted for her because she was a woman. She became leader of the party and later, leader of the country simply because there was nobody better for the job. Nobody worked harder and she was the only person with the vision and the gall to get things done. There was nothing to stop her. End of.

The point is that it shouldn't matter that she was a woman - and because she was an exceptional politician, it didn't. But once you start saying that we should deliberately put minorities in positions of power simply because they belong to a certain group, that's discrimination. And whether 'positive' or 'negative' it's WRONG.

[Conservative Homer]

We wont have a non-white PM any time soon for the same reason that america didnt for a long time - Hate filled morons with a permanent chip on their shoulder like Al Sharpton and to a lesser extent Jesse Jackson.

When i think of prominent non-white political or other prominent figures in this country who do i think of? Trevor Phillips, Darcus Howe, Tariq Guffar, Keith Vaz and so on. People who to a greater or lesser extent have made careers for themselves by exploiting and perpetuating hate.

Its not about colour, its about being a decent human being. Obama seems to be a decent and positive person, i cant say the same for Trevor Phillips.

Obama got elected because he didnt make his campaign divisive and based on percieved racial injustices, rather what he can offer for the future.

[Conservative Homer]

We wont have a non-white PM any time soon for the same reason that america didnt for a long time - Hate filled morons with a permanent chip on their shoulder like Al Sharpton and to a lesser extent Jesse Jackson.

When i think of prominent non-white political characters in this country who do i think of? Trevor Phillips, Darcus Howe, Tariq Guffar and so on. People who to a greater or lesser extent have made careers for themselves by exploiting and perpetuating hate.

I guess David Lammy has been mentioned as a possible future black PM, im not aware that he carries such baggage, maybe in 10-15 years time, who knows?

Its not about colour, its about being a decent human being. Obama seems to be a decent and positive person, i cant say the same for Trevor Phillips.

Obama got elected because he didnt make his campaign divisive and based on percieved racial injustices, rather what he can offer for the future.

[christina Speight]

David @ 1547- What on earth are you on about? What's the USA got to do with what I wrote much less Palin.

I was complaining that here - and I suppose in the USA too - it's all smoke and mirrors and doing the right thing goes in the dustbin,

Nobody in their right mind in the USA could have voted for a president promising a bonanza of goodies worth $1.3 trillion when tax revenues are plummeting and unemployment soaring. But nobody WAS in their right mind - they voted for race, for inexperience and the vapidity of youth

[Dual Citizen]

@christina Speight11:35
A majority of Whites voted against him (55%) but 95% of blacks and over 66% of Hispanics and 62% of Asians voted for him. He was elected on his race.

What twaddle! So the only way not to be elected on race would be for the majority of us whiteys to approve him?

Obama won (with the help of my vote, based on the economy) because he ran a better campaign and he was undoubtedly helped by the overwhelming desire to kick out this disastrous Republican administration.

You appear to be in denial.

[christina Speight]

Dual Citizen @1929 I'm not remotely in denial. until I saw St Barrack in action I was neutral Maybe the endless reports here and the TV debates didn't give the full story but the amount of Obama's speeches devoted to serious consideration of the economy - or anything else - was negligible.

Sure he made extravagant promises in states where it suited him about cutting taxes but the sum total of these promises @£1.3 trillion cannot possibly be met without ruining America. Therefore he'll have to forget those promises.

You only had to watch the crowds of gormless youth swooning over him to know that rationality didn't come into it.

If the black vote hadn't gone 95% for Obama he would have been on a knife edge in the final result and if the youth vote hadn't thought him so handsome and --- ooh - LOVELY, he'd have lost and the democrats would again have pretended they'd won when they'd lost.

Bush, whom you don't seem to like (!) , had to sweep up the mess from the most disgusting and useless president ever. It was Clinton who sat on his hands while busy with Monica L:, and did nothing about the growth of Al Qaeda and exposed the US and the rest of the world to naked terrorism.

The 'liberal' (as you [half] call it) Democrat Party betrayed your half-nation by its pacifist, socialist policies.

But - as I've already said - we'll have to see how Obama recovers from his irresponsible promises and how he acts in practice.

Maybe you only half-see the British press but the cartoon by Matt showed a groundsman in the White House installing a notice by a pond reading "PLEASE do NOT walk on the water". Someone replied "I hope he's got the loaves and fishes bit sorted out".

[Sunder Katwala]

Trevor Phillips' comments confuse two things: the issue of fair chances for black and Asian candidates (on which more progress is being made than ever before), and the issue of the institutions of a Parliamentary system, where David Cameron is unusual in that he will be leading his party into a General Election after just 8 or 9 years in Parliament. Every post-war PM has been in Parliament for a decade.

Its a shame his comments aren't based on any evidence. The Fabian Society has released new analysis of the parliamentary selections in each of the major parties. Labour can now claim to have defeated the ethnic penalty in new selecitons; the Conservatives are making more progress than ever before; the LibDems are stalled on zero, for specific reasons of only tending to run ethnic candidates for 'ethnic seats' they can't win.

So the comments are out of date, and damaging, when there is every change of a British Obama coming through, if any of this and the next generation prove to have the talent (and luck) needed

http://fabians.org.uk/general-news/general-news/obama-uk-politics-ethnic-penalty

[Sean Fear]

"To be fair to the Tories, there isn't much to appeal to ethnic minorities in their policies, and your strident anti-immigrationism and coded language doesn't help."

Actually, there's plenty to appeal. The point is that (unlike you) we don't treat thm as victim groups who should resent the white majority.

[Cleethorpes Rock]

I agree with Sean's demolition of resident leftie's position. So let's hear less about "the black community", "the white community", "the Asian community" and instead talk about THE community.

We need to remember we're the party of ONE NATION. Why wouldn't black and Asian Britons be bothered about crime, jobs, healthcare and education just like everyone else?

[Dual Citizen]

@sunder katwala
Trevor Phillips' comments confuse two things: the issue of fair chances for black and Asian candidates (on which more progress is being made than ever before), and the issue of the institutions of a Parliamentary system, where David Cameron is unusual in that he will be leading his party into a General Election after just 8 or 9 years in Parliament.

Quite right. It's also the way both major parties select their candidates. To become party leader you have to be a sitting MP. To become an MP requires being vetted and approved by the central party, who find you a constituency that may be a safe or target seat, and being then selected by a few dozen party activists behind closed doors at the local Conservative Association or Labour club. Then to get noticed you need to get onto the front bench and then the cabinet or shadow cabinet, which requires almost blind loyalty to the existing leader and the whips. And finally to become leader you would need to pass a vote of MP's to even get on the general ballot (in the case of the Tories) or do more grovelling to the unions (Labour).

I agree it would be unlikely that Obama would have got there under the British system. But, given his voting record and rebellion against his own party over many years, it's even less likely that John McCain would have either.

Both candidates won their party nominations not by cowtowing to the few in their party's elite, but through campaigning and winning the votes of ordinary people in the primaries and caucuses.

The Tories have started to realize this, and taken a few small steps to making their candidate selection more open. They also advocate many more local and regional exective positions be directly elected and accountable. The most likely beneficiary from this in the short term would be Boris, who is now cutting his teeth as the leader of 8m Londoners and carving out an executive record. More directly elected mayors, county executives, etc, will give many more people, from all races, the chance to prove themselves worthy of leading my other country.

[Dual Citizen]

@christina speight
You only had to watch the crowds of gormless youth swooning over him to know that rationality didn't come into it.

If the black vote hadn't gone 95% for Obama he would have been on a knife edge in the final result and if the youth vote hadn't thought him so handsome and --- ooh - LOVELY, he'd have lost...

Damn those under 30's, under 45's and under 65's. If we'd only denied them the vote, your guy would have won!

[torylady]

Christina Speight's understanding of how demographics in America affect elections really is quite poor.

If 90% of blacks who vote, always vote for the democrat candidate, then Obama getting an extra 5% on a very high turnout is to be expected.

When Obama was going up against Hilary Clinton, i.e. in a black vs white internal democratic election, he did not have anything close to 90% of the black vote. In fact I daresay at the very beginning when he was less well known it was less than 50%.

I know you really want it to be so, Christina, just to confirm these views you've held since World War 1, but the facts are plain to see for anyone who cares to look.

Next thing you'll be telling me Glock slowed down deliberately to let Hamilton win!

[resident leftie]

Posted by: Sean Fear | November 08, 2008 at 20:50
"To be fair to the Tories, there isn't much to appeal to ethnic minorities in their policies, and your strident anti-immigrationism and coded language doesn't help.

Actually, there's plenty to appeal. The point is that (like you) we don't treat thm as victim groups who should resent the white majority.

We've got six times more non-white MPs than all the other parties put together and a majority of non-white voters. We've introduced legislation to prevent racial bias in employment law. We empower, not crush or victimise. We have a long way to go, but I won't be lectured to by Tories on race.

[Ulster Tory]

RE: resident leftie

"I won't be lectured to by Tories on race. "

Hard luck then.

"We've got six times more non-white MPs than all the other parties put together"

So? I doubt you will after the next general election.
Parmjit Dhanda, Virendra Sharma, Sadiq Khan, Ashok Kumar, Shahid Malik, Marsha Singh are all in marginal constituencies. Plus, we are standing more ethnic minorities.

"and a majority of non-white voters."

Which somehow means we are racist? A "logic" jump to far I think.

"We've introduced legislation to prevent racial bias in employment law."

I'm pretty sure most other parties would have done the same - it has been demanded by society. Just like Catholic Emancipation (which the Conservative Party passed), Vote for Women (Conservative and Liberal Coalition), Extending the vote to the working classes (Conservative Party), etc.

"We empower, not crush or victimise."

True. You empower a small group and by doing so you install a victim mentality. What about working class white males? How are you empowering them?

[christina Speight]

Torylady -(strange use of 'lady' for one who makes personal remarks) . Only just seen yours at 0003 this morning so you'll think I haven't answered your facile arguments and guesswork maths.

I started off being somewhat bored with all this about US elections which we can't do anything about but as I watched the increasingly policy-free speeches from Obama I got more and more worried. Most could see he would win but it was the manner of the winning that caused alarm bells to ring. The undertow was plain if you looked and the voting patterns bore it out.

It was the mindless gormless young squealing at Obama as if he were a pop idol and the tear struck blacks feeling their saviour had come. And although never spelt out the election was won on race - as the press made clear "The first Black man in the White House" (tentatively and in the future tense to start with and then as triumphant fact.)

I'll judge him as president on how he acts as president. Let's hope he can cease to be "the obedient servant of one of the most squalid and unshakeable political machines in America" and get clear of "one of his alarmingly close associates, a state-subsidised slum landlord called Tony Rezko, who has been convicted on fraud and corruption charges. " (Mail on Sunday) Frankly his less than mediocre performance as a senator doesn't inspire confidence.

[StevenAdams]

Christina, your arguments are silly.

1. All presidential rallies in the US have squealing supporters. To damn Obama's because they were more populous and younger is just silly.

2. The US is 80% white. 45% of those whites voting for Obama still dwarves the entire black vote.

I don't agree with his protectionist or other fiscal policies, nor do I think his health insurance policies will help the US economy right now - and frankly his foreign policy regarding Iraq is a risky one - but they are policies nevertheless, they are policies that mean a lot to Americans (tax, health and war, basically). To demean the whole vote as one of race, his supporters as squealing youths and to say he has no policy us merely misleading or ill informed. Or both.