Treasury mole leaking to Damian Green?

Paul Waugh has more.

9pm: My understanding is that Damian Green, Shadow Immigration Minister, has been arrested but not charged for receiving information covered by the Official Secrets Act.

9pm from James Kirkup @ The Telegraph: "The following facts have just been supplied to journalists at Westminster by Conservative Party spokesmen: "Damian Green, the Conservative immigration spokesman was arrested earlier today. He was detained on suspicion of aiding or procuring misconduct in public office.  The arrest is connected to the disclosure of several Home Office documents over the last year. Police officers searched Mr Green's home in Kent and his Commons office. At the time of posting, he remains under arrest at a central London police station.  He has not been charged with any crime. Mr Green denies any wrongdoing and and has not been charged with any crime."

9.05pm: The papadoms have arrived at my table in the Indian, Rochester Row!

Tim Montgomerie

Comments

[Ulster Tory]

This true, or speculation?

[jonathan]

Doesn't look good. could be stuffed. tory sleaze coming back? or cunning political manouvere?

didn't realise we had a mole in the treasury.

[Patriot]

Sky news have just said that Damien Green has been arrested but not charged. No other detail.

[Will S]

BBC has broken that it's Damian Green. Arrested and questioned.

[Simon]

Home Office leaks - not Treasury according to PH and BBC

[David (One of many)]

Wouldn't it be hilarious if Sky were using this site as their source? ;)

[Afleitch]

If we have a mole, then good for him!Fighting to get the truth out of this Government.

[Shaun Bennett]

No what nonsense. Why on earth should anyone talk about 'Tory Sleaze'? If the Treasury has a leaky civil servant who is kind enough to reveal the governments true intentions to us, how does that reflect badly on the party?

If the story had been that the Tory frontbench had NOT taken advantage of this information, then you might have a case for breach of duty.

[jamie]

Oh dear, how unfortunate. Usually shadow ministers are not so stupid as to take leaks directly.

More or less serious that the Osborne/Derepaska saga?

[Doug]

Have to wait for the details but the gist of this is such bull. How about arresting the whole cabinet for their continual leakage of sensitive information to the media? How about arresting Robert Peston as a recipient of sensitive information?

[Simon]

Less serious - I would say

Plus it probably paves the way for the return of DD - which is needed

[Donal Blaney]

Doug is right on the button: how come Robert Peston hasn't been arrested for his involvement in the leaking of market-sensitive announcements during the banking crisis?

[RichardJ]

Don't see what's wrong with getting insider info on Treasury decisions. We are a democracy after all and frankly I'd like to know what our rulers are up to.

In any case I suspect most people don't even know who Damian Green is.

[bj]

Is this Ian Blair's last laugh as Met Commissioner?

[Donal Blaney]

Mandelson and Campbell will try to persuade the media that this is worse than Watergate, Tory sleaze, proof the Tories are unfit for power etc etc.

[Patsy Sergeant]

I think it just shows how desperate this government is, to try and bring down the Poll advantage of the Conservatives, if they can bring in a rabble of 'Whips' to the House, to make as much noise as they can to try and drown out George Osborne's speech yesterday, then a 'mole' is peanuts!!!!

[Mike]

Donal Blaney, exactly.

Or are leaks to 'friendly' people perfectly ok?

[TrevorH]

'sleaze'?? Labour trolls are getting illiterate as well as desperate.

I seem to remember Labour manning the barricades to defend a certain civil servant, one Clive Ponting, who leaked information about the Belgrano sinking. And he got off.

I suggest you go back and dig a few comments up on who said what then.

It is of course all hypocrisy -
Sir Humphrey in Yes Minister said, "The ship of state, Bernard, is the only ship that leaks from the top."

[Simon]

It all goes back to documents from last year

I can't remember any huge scoops about immigration then.

Does seem to be a very political use of the police - which is what we are to expect, I guess

[Mark Fulford]

If the crime is receiving leaked information, I don't think the public is going to be particularly bothered.

Paying for leaked info would be much worse and could only be accompanied by resignations of those who authorised the payment. Let's hope we've gone nowhere near that.

But this is all speculation. Let’s see what pans out. Dave’s on at 8:30 tomorrow AM.

[Doug]

Now we know how ZaNuLabour have have subverted the police for political gain.

[jamie]

How does it pave the return of DD? This involves Damian Green not Damian Grieves.

Either way, it's obviously all the fault of Mandy and Campbell- they're omnipotent after all and forced Green into his wrongdoing.

[pp]

Well the times story must have really p*ssed labour off -- big time diversion required.

I suspect the government using secrecy to cover up embarassment is going to be the publics take on any such story.

[Simon]

If Green has to resign - that leaves a gap and that could result in the return for DD.

[jonathan]

Just to let you know - I hate labour, and am a Conservative supporter. However, 'sleaze' is spelled correctly.

I was referring to how those on the left might throw accusations at us...

[Raj]

Unless Green did something badly wrong, if Labour tried to use this to attack the Tories it would backfire. Reporting what whistleblowers told him? Sorry, I doubt anyone's going to see that badly. Trying to hide bad information with the Official Secrets Act would be, though.

[HF]

http://tinyurl.com/578jbl

this story in the Sun?

"LEAKED police figures show FORTY PER CENT of drink drivers in some parts of Britain are now foreigners.

And the vast majority come from either Poland or Lithuania — confirming warnings that many Eastern Europeans ignore our breathalyser laws.

The statistics will fuel fears that drunken foreign motorists are a growing menace.

Tory immigration spokesman Damian Green, who obtained the leaked document,"

[John Broughton]

Telegraph's web site has what seems a rather fuller story.

It looks like Brown & Co have gone completely over the top or mad; the latter hopefully!

[Votedave]

From the Guardian:

"A member of David Cameron's Conservative frontbench team was arrested today, the party confirmed tonight.

Immigration spokesman Damian Green, the MP for Ashford, was arrested earlier today at his home in Kent, and taken for questioning at a central London police station, where he remained this evening. He has not been charged with any offence.

It is understood the arrest came in connection with allegedly leaked information relating to stories which have appeared recently in the media about immigration.

Mr Cameron was said to be supportive of his MP and angry at the way in which the case has been handled. Mr Green denies any wrongdoing and remains in his post, a party spokesman confirmed.

More details soon ..."

[Patriot]

Damien Green arrested on the eve of a major Conservative announcement on the economy......coincidence?

Hmmmmmmmmmm

[thomas]

Bad move by Labour. Bad, bad move. Especially if it's connected to this story:

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article1889044.ece

[SuperBlue]

Now we know a little more. Any way, it is about the Home Office and not the Treasury. Damian is a great man who spoke well in Ipswich last May.

[Ulster Tory]

Labour are desperate.

[Prodicus]

"It is claimed that nine counter-terrorism officers were involved in the arrest" - Telegraph

WHAT?

[True tory]

Frankly I'm not going to come to the defence of Green. He's a wet and an elitist. We have the OSA for good reason. If charged he will of course have to be sacked. Breaking the law is breaking the law

[Doug]

We have to nail Labour for this. And none of the procrastination from Tory MPs. They all have to get on the news and in the papers and hound Labour and the Met for this. Boris also needs to highlight Labour politicisation of the Met.

[pp]

I said before that I thought the osborne thing was an attempt to set the tories up (if the subsequent donation had been accepted instead of declined then noone would have beleived it hadn't been solicited - revealing that just before the GE would have destroyed us).

This kind of heavy handed attack on the shadow front bench suggests that 'jokes' about brown finding a reason to cancel the next GE may not be so far fetched after all...

[Steve Tierney]

If it brings David Davis back, its worth its weight in gold.

[Mike Rouse]

Enjoy the meal. I hear rasmalai is particularly delightful as a desert after a curry.

[True tory]

'Disclosure of this information was manifestly in the public interest' - David Cameron.
That's for a court to decide Dave.

[bj]

From PA

It is understood the allegations centre on four stories which have caused
considerable embarrassment to the Government.
They are:
:: The revelation in November 2007 that Home Secretary Jacqui Smith was aware
the Security Industry Authority had granted licences to 5,000 illegal workers
but did not think the Home Office's official explanation was "good enough" for
the press office or ministers to use;
:: The fact that an illegal immigrant had been employed as a cleaner in the
House of Commons, which emerged in February this year;
:: A whips' list of potential Labour rebels who might vote against the
Government over plans to increase the pre-charge terror detention limit to 42
days in a crucial Commons vote;
:: A letter from Ms Smith to Prime Minister Gordon Brown warning that the
recession could lead to a rise in violent crime and burglaries.

[jamie]

Honestly, you people are so paranoid I just don't understand how any of you can possible enjoy your lives.

[Western Star]

Labour are not only "desperate", they are evil! This proves we now live in a Stalinist Police State - as if we did not know that already. Mr Green is, effectively, a political prisoner!

[YMT]

So Labour is now resorting to the Mugabe handbook for dealing with their political opponents I see.

If anti-terrorism officers were involved then that is abhorrent.

What next? People suspected of being Tories being detained under the terror act? CCHQ searched and its computers seized? Sad thing is I fear this government could easily cross that line.

[Mark Fulford]

It is claimed that nine counter-terrorism officers were involved in the arrest.

The arrest, its timing, the searching of his Parliament office, the use of terrorist resources, etc, constiture a terrible overreaction and abuse of power. Even the government’s staunchest cheerleaders must be hard pushed to defend this.

[Saltmaker]

Honestly, you people are so paranoid I just don't understand how any of you can possible enjoy your lives.

Jamie, we would enjoy our lives a great deal more without berks like you in power.

[Bill]

I doubt if this will harm the Tories. Indeed it may well have the reverse effect.

[David (One of many)]

Doesn't the deployment of anti-terrorism police require the express permission of the Home Secretary?

[Raj]

That's for a court to decide Dave.

"True" Tory, that isn't true. The court will apply the law which may not (I could be wrong) have a whistleblowing/public interest defence. Thus what he did could easily have been in the public interest but still technically illegal.

That said if he is charged and it proceeds to trial a jury might acquit him anyway.

[True tory]

'"True" Tory, that isn't true. The court will apply the law which may not (I could be wrong) have a whistleblowing/public interest defence. Thus what he did could easily have been in the public interest but still technically illegal' - Raj

So the court will still decide like I said. You've just explained how they will do it and what they may conclude. I never touched on the subject on how or what they would decide.

[Mark Fulford]

"True Tory" reminds me of Fulford's First Law of Blogging: the truer or bluer the name, the redder the person.

[Martin]

We should be asking serious questions about the timing of this. Government starting to slide again post the disastrous PBR and a probable announcement on the economy tomorrow.

This smacks of a plot.

[James Walton]

Has Dave gone mad. He says he stands by him without hearing the full facts.Would it not be better to say he will release a statement when the full facts are known.

He has let himself fall into the position of backing what could possibly be a lawbreaker. A law is a law wether yoy like it or not and for him to back someone who has broken one without full details is very kneejerk.

This will lead to all kinds of questions being asked of his ability, if he says he will back a law breaker if he doesn't like/agree with the law.

My god, who advises him. I can see what is coming from a mile off with regards negative publicity, why can't hey?

[Kipling]

I think Labour have once again underestimated how this will be taken.

A shadow minister recieves information in the public interest, it is released after the government hides it, and he then gets arrested with more police than those involved in the Stockwell tube incident.

Big Brother state. Immigration out of control. Heavy handed gestapo tactics. It doesn't embarrass the Tories rather plays on the Civil Liberties card, and exposes NuLabs desperate tactics.

More should also be made on the fact they waited until Parliament had risen for this to happen so it can't be raised with Speaker.

Disgraceful tactics of a disgraceful government.

[Greg]

From the Guardian:

"The government believes the Tories have taken care to distance themselves, by not briefing journalists directly. A Whitehall source said: "This suggests that someone with limited information has told the Conservatives what is going on ... We are considering how the mole can be flushed out. Leaking budget information is a breach of the Official Secrets Act."

I assume that means:

"Leaking budget information, not approved for leaking by Gordon Brown,...?

[Western Star]

Seems Green committed the heinous crime of letting people know what an incompetent and appalling Home Secretary we have...tsk tsk!!

[Raj]

So the court will still decide like I said.

No, the court will only apply the law. They will NOT necessarily decide whether the leaking of the information was in the public interest. You said the court WOULD decide on that point.

I'm surprised you can't remember what you actually said!

[BW]

He has a honourable precedent, none other than Winston Churchill in his wilderness years getting information out of the MOD. No-one thinks the worse of WSC for that, far from it. Throw that back at this Stalinist desperate shambles of a Government.

[BW]

He has a honourable precedent, none other than Winston Churchill in his wilderness years getting information out of the MOD. No-one thinks the worse of WSC for that, far from it. Throw that back at this Stalinist desperate shambles of a Government.

[Doug]

If I were Dave I'd ask for an audience with the Queen and ask he to intervene publicly. This Stalinesque move is nothing short of a constitutional crisis. We must have the election now.

[greg]

There must be a very small number of opposition front benchers in history who haven't been leaked information by Govt officials at some point in their careers.

[David (One of many)]

Greg - quite. Leaking budget information is only a breach of the OSA if it exposes the UK to risk or harms it in some way. The UK is not the same thing as the government.

[Perdix]

Sounds like Damian Green should get a medal or even a knighthood!

[Raj]

James, you assume that Cameron had not been briefed after the arrest happened but before the news was leaked - or that he knew before.

A law is a law wether yoy like it or not

There used to be a law where it was illegal to make a basket in a London park on a Sunday - punishment was death. Was still in effect in the 1990s, I believe.

If all that Green did was pass on leaked information that we regard as important, BUT the law says he still offended do you think we should condemn him? If so then we condemn all whistleblowers and those who report their information.

[Geoffrey G Brooking]

Goodness knows what these communists will do when some mole reveals the real unemployment figures including those passed off on to tax credits and new deal even though they don't meet the requirements all for the sake of meeting targets and massaging figures!

[True tory]

'No, the court will only apply the law. They will NOT necessarily decide whether the leaking of the information was in the public interest. You said the court WOULD decide on that point.

I'm surprised you can't remember what you actually said!'

In order to apply the law they must decide if it was in the public interest. It, the court, does this by applying the law both statute and common law. It's not a difficult concept. If DG is before the court and he employs the defence of public interest (as suggested by the tory spokesman) the court will decide if this is a sufficient defence, it will do this by using the law. But the court will decide. I'm surprised you seem to have endless opinions but zero knowledge.

[Mark Fulford]

My god, who advises him. I can see what is coming from a mile off with regards negative publicity, why can't hey?

You are wrong. First, for the reasons laid out by many others here, the publicity won't be negative. Second, this isn't about publicity. It's about abuse of power and the wrongness of arresting politicians for exposing government failings. If anybody goes over this it will be Jacqui Smith.

[James Walton]

Raj, so where do you draw the line.Who decides it is in my interest. Should all laws be flexible to the rule wether someone thinks it is my interest so should be allowed to be broken.

If the law is wrong then we change it when we win the next election. We don't go breaking it because we think it is best for all concerned.

All I am saying is that he has publically backed what could be a law breaker.Whether it is right or wrong what he leaked is not the argument.If it is illegal he should be distancing himself.

[Eurofighter]

Let's get behind Damian and damn Labour. The media need to be attacked relentlessly and not allowed to spout NuLab spin. This has all the hallmarks of Mandelson and Campbell with a particularly nasty PM in No 10.

If tonight's BBC, SKY and tomorrow's Today programme put any anti Tory stance on this please bombard their switchboards.

Those of you who doubted DD's by election campaign against the taking away of our freedoms only have to look at Damian's arrest.

The country will be behind us on this as we are the only party who are talking sense on immigration and exposing NuLab's failure to deal with our porous borders.

Now go out and fight in the media and on the doorsteps.

[Raj]

It, the court, does this by applying the law both statute and common law.

Wrong, if statute says he committed a criminal offence and there is no defence provided in the Act (or that applies due to other legislation) common law does not come into it. Public interest may be a defence, but it may not be accepted because the law in this case refuses to recognise that it COULD be a defence.

For example, it is a defence to break the law if you are under threat of violence/death. But it is NOT a defence if you commit murder. Defences depend on the criminal act.

I'm surprised you seem to have endless opinions but zero knowledge.

Please, you're the clueless one!

[greg]

James, leaks have been made to Opposition politicians since time immemorial. One could argue that our democracy wouldn't function without them. The Official Secrets Act doesn't exist to protect the Govt from embarassment.

[James Walton]

Oh thats ok then Mark, lets go out and break as many laws as we can to highlight the failings of the government.

As long as the publicity is good, who care hey.

[Saltmaker]

If it is illegal he should be distancing himself.

Oh dear, he's one of those black and white people. Politicians work in the real world.

[greg]

The law he is accused of breaking is "Misconduct by an individual in public office".

Pretty wide-ranging and open to interpretation that one!

[Sam R]

If Pc Plod is out to catch and charge people who are aiding or procuring misconduct in public office then Gord and Darl should go into hiding immediately, and hasn't one T Bliar been giving cash away recently?

[True tory]

'Wrong, if statute says he committed a criminal offence and there is no defence provided in the Act (or that applies due to other legislation) common law does not come into it. Public interest may be a defence, but it may not be accepted because the law in this case refuses to recognise that it COULD be a defence'.

Where did I say that common law is superior to statute? It is not and I never said it was. Nonetheless it can and does play a role. You seem to just be creating strawmen or you really just don't grasp simple points.

'Please, you're the clueless one!'

And what chambers are you a member of Raj?

[Paz]

Are you sure 9 counter-terrorism police were involved in the arrest? To send 1 in sound OTT, 9 sounds ridiculous, what did they expect to find in hidden in his office Bin Laden himself!!!!

With the best will in the world, I think a semi retired desk sargent from the Kent police could have been sent around in a panda car to arrest Damien Green he's not exactly threatening in character, is he?

[James Walton]

Saltmaker-sorry for wanting mp's to be lawful.

Rightfully there have been slatings on here for Mandy etc and his ways. If we do it, well thats ok because they do it and it is in the countries best interest to do it...that to me is rather a lame argument.

Should we not be trying to show we are better than them, not better at doing what they do, which the public don't like.

[Mark Fulford]

As long as the publicity is good, who care hey.

James, I don't think you took the time to read my post properly. It was you who saw this first and foremost as a matter of publicity. My words, which chime with the majority here, were:

...this isn't about publicity. It's about abuse of power and the wrongness of arresting politicians for exposing government failings.

[Bruce Mcaaw]

Now it all becomes clear. Damien Green was apparently arrested by "Anti Terrorist Officers" I wonder why Brown was so keen for 42 Days detention without trail on terrorist case. I could never believe this country could have fallen to the depths we have under the last decade of Labour control.

[James Walton]

Yes, but Mark he has done it illegally.....BECAUSE HE IS ONE OF US DOES THAT MAKE IT OK THEN?

[Raj]

Raj, so where do you draw the line.Who decides it is in my interest.

James, it isn't just in YOUR interest, it's potentially in ALL our interests. We decide.

If the law is wrong then we change it when we win the next election. We don't go breaking it because we think it is best for all concerned.

Assuming that Green knew he was breaking the law. I didn't know it was illegal to release leaked documents that don't involve national security, the stability of the nation, etc. But some people might be willing to take the consequences if they think it's the right thing.

Also, what if Labour hid all the bad news to try to stay in power? Under your philosophy the Tories could never expose their lies if the facts to prove them wrong were inside the gov.

All I am saying is that he has publically backed what could be a law breaker.Whether it is right or wrong what he leaked is not the argument.If it is illegal he should be distancing himself.

If someone in your family was accused of a crime and they said they didn't do it, would you shun them and refuse to say anything supportive in public until they had been convicted? If you say "yes" then you're a heartless beast and I dare you to say that to your closest relatives to their faces on Christmas Day. If you say "no" then you're a hypocrite.

If Cameron believes Green is innocent, he would be a disgusting, weaselish snake for not saying so.

[James Walton]

Jesus Raj, if Dave has to use the family rule every time one of MP's gets into trouble, I hope he enjoys having hundreds of brothers and sisters.

All I'm saying is why not wait until it pans out and they release a statement. What happens if there is more to it, it pushes Dave into a corner and he can be easily critisised.

His automatic jump in his corner, seemed very quick and he could find his loyalty abused.

[Rod Sellers]

Hard to make sense of all this but as this present Brown led government is criminally negligent and less democratic than Robert Mugabe - who really cares.

[Raj]

His automatic jump in his corner, seemed very quick and he could find his loyalty abused.

Or it could show that he's willing to take a chance when he knows the person being accused and believes them to be innocent, either in law or morally. The public won't give a fudge about the law if they think Green was right in what he did, and I won't either.

Cameron could wait, but that would show him to be just another politician, someone who won't go out on a limb for another.

[michael mcgough]

Brown governs by leaks.

[Mark Hudson]

As a constituent of Damian Green's, I have to say that I am going to wait until all the information is disclosed before I pass judgement. If he has broken the law, he should resign. It is no more appropriate to do this in Opposition than it would be in Government. If the rule of law is purely a matter of interpretation, then we all lose.

If not, then it is a serious overreaction by the police, for which they must answer.

[Cleethorpes Rock]

If the government are foolish enough to drag us into an argument about leaking information, bring it on.

If they're foolish enough to drag us into an argument about politicisation of the police and the civil service, bring it on.

If they're stupid enough to go to war with us over the creation of a police state, then bring it on again with interest.

These arguments cut to the core of what Britain means as a country, and with Labour in charge, that core is rotten through and through.

[Patsy Sergeant]

If this was organised by someone to do with this government, they will estimate that even if Damian Green is 'cleared', some s..t will stick.

Its interesting that on another thread yesterday I warned that once you start these sort of machinations, then they begin to take on their own life. It was interesting that someone - I can't remember who, suggested that I should take some Valium, well!!!!!!!!!

[James Walton]

Mark - Exactly what I was trying to point out.I remember a certain ex-conservative London majoral candidate to be saying he was innocent to the party and look what happened there. Years of rule for London by Red Ken and it made the parties defence of him rather foolish.

Still think Dave should have held back his unconditional support.

[ChrisD]

Just looking at some of the comments on this thread this evening having watched this story unfold, and the implications it poses for our elected politicians, especially in opposition.

And quite simple, some of you disgust me!

[Andy Hemsted]

So I went out tonight for a few drinks with friends, and have come home to find myself living in a Socialist Authoritarian State.. I am not surprised, this has been coming for years and we have sleep walked right into it.

This will blow up into the governments face, but it has to make anyone who thinks an MP's role is to hold the governments view to account scared and worried about doing their job.

[The Swine Bishop]

"That said if he is charged and it proceeds to trial a jury might acquit him anyway."

Not a chance, its not worth the negative press. If the police had anything other than a complaint they would have charged him.

" doubt if this will harm the Tories. Indeed it may well have the reverse effect. "

I agree this makes Brown look very bad indeed. It stinks.