With such a bloated state, incompetent administration and ailing economy the fight should be over. The question we should be asking is why aren't we hitting the buttons with the electorate...

It will be all to soon. The slowdown has only just started. Give it 12 weeks and things will look very differant. Brown's bounce will not last.

"Some of the post on here are hysterical but things aren't going well so DC has to take stock and make some changes to both policy, personnel and presentation."

Not going quite so well right now, wait a few weeks and the penny will drop.

"The polls are all over the place but the Con Home Poll of Polls shows a narrowing of the gap so DC must act after Christmas - New Year, new start...new GOVERNMENT!!!"

Exactly we are feeling the start of the xmas glow. The New Year will be a very difficult one, full of great chances to kill off the nu-labour project for ever.

Iain, are you sure? I remember that debate and Brown was at his reciting tractor production worst. Not that it means much now but we won that debate easily. Brown's handling of ACT will be his lasting legacy.We've gone from being the country with the best funded pension schemes in Europe to one of the worst.
How Brown hasn't been more damaged by this is one of life's grat mysteries.

Iain, your problem is that your dislike of Cameron and Osborne colours your perceptions as much as it did some very high up people in the Labour party for so long.

They underestimated them, and the usual suspects on this site feed off any bit of downside in the political cycle FOR CAMERON AND OSBORNE!

Now, here's a really good example of how some of you mistake good politics by the Conservative as a fluke!
And any downside or bends in the road as huge examples of how right you were.

Cameron and Osborne have delivered the most sustained poll leads in many years, a couple of hiccups and you scream for heads to roll, and its always the ones that have been performing as well!

Tories trump Labour once again?

"At various points over the last year or two, the Treasury has been left wondering whether George Osborne has a mole in HMT: the Tory shadow chancellor managed to anticipate almost perfectly a range of Government plans, including cuts in corporation tax and, most famously, inheritance tax. The Conservatives of course revel in this, delighted to think of the anxieties and suspicions they unleash in ministerial offices.

Today, I suspect the Treasury mole-catchers are out again following the latest Osborne wheeze."

One of those lovely little nuggets from the last couple of years that show how desperately Brown&Co want rid of Osborne.

Add in Tim's diary piece way back at the start of this financial crisis where it was *briefed* to him that Cameron and Osborne expected our polling lead to fall to single figures in the coming weeks as events unfolded. That proved correct!

As did the choice of song at the end of Cameron's conference speech, "lets stick together*.... How true!

I am not trying to be inflammatory but honest; But as someone who is not committed to any of the big three and very much a floating voter I found some of the triumphalism on display on this website (Admittedly by a minority) when the Conservatives held a large lead in the polls very distasteful.

I wonder if this is shared by others, I am by no means saying I am now more likely to vote Labour as a consequence but it was not pleasant to see the celebrations and sudden chit-chat regarding 'going further' in policy. For me it displayed a lack of integrity for some to come out and try to use a lead in the polls achieved under one set of policies in order to sustain the sudden introduction of a new set of policies.

It did seem to fit the horrible old Conservative stereotype, however unfair that stereotype is. I expect it is sometimes hard to see the wood for the trees if you are a committed party supporter but this was my interpretation of the period.

Got any examples of that Steve Curtis? Most of the regular posters here are very fine,thoughtful people who want to create a better country than we have at the moment.

Malcolm Dunn I know what you are trying to say, but Steve Curtis saw what we all see.
Its like radio noise and it comes from the Labour supporters and the trouble makers and those who really are trolling.

"It did seem to fit the horrible old Conservative stereotype" Thats becuse a lot of it is Labour Agent Provocateur's playing to the gallery.


This is a clear example of voters saying "better the devil you know rather than the devil you don't" in difficult economic times.

The challenge for David Cameron is to offer a credible alternative. If he cannot, Brown will call an early election if he can do deal a deal with the unions to bail out the party finances.

There is another possibility. Brown will bring forward legislation for state funding of political parties to enable him to call the early election. If the Bill appears in the next couple of months, get your bets on quick.

Well it is interesting that Louise only comes out when there is bad news.

@ "A Cllr"

There has been a lot of bad news for Team Cameron - e.g. Osborne's Yachtgate, his pound gaffe, the slump in the polls and the Den Dover expenses scandal.

Cameron's problem is that those with experience of government (Redwood, Davis, Rifkind, Clarke, Howard, Widdecombe, Gummer, etc) are not on the Commons frontbenches. The backbenches in Lords are stuffed with ex Ministers (Hezza, Lamont, Forsyth etc) too.

I am no fan of a lot of these grandees but recognise that, in times of crisis, they give comfort to the voters.

The voters are not stupid. They have seen that several of the financial institutions that have got into trouble have been run by inexperienced CEOs. HBOS is a classic example.

This is a time for experience and maturity, not youthful ignorance.

I have found louise's blog. She posts on politics home too.

And low and behold she isn't a tory!


I and 147 people lost our jobs today as my employer made us all redundant, in Leeds I understand there were a further 65 job losses.

Those that have commented on here about Tracker Mortgages/falling prices/cuts in tax (funded by borrowing which will lead to an increase in future taxes)and everything else that 'wonderful' Mr Brown has promised please explain to me how this benefits me now I have lost my job? or my option of retiring a little earlier is no longer viable because of Brown's raid on private pensions has all but destroyed mine & countless others pensions further I will have a lot less to manage on and the return on my savings is almost nil?

I can't afford to retire now and hope I can find work, but what is there out? my age now counts against me. The party that represents the interests of working people now stands for work till you drop and lets offer bribes which are funded by borrowing, if people are so short sighted & vote him back in there is no future for this Country.

Cameron and Osbourne might have made some errors but I trust them, spending more money we haven't got will not help the country and it is a disgrace that Brown is more interested in political office than the long term future, its our children & grandchildren that will end up paying a heavy price for this folly of a Prime Minister, for pities sake get behind them and get rid of this rotten Government & that gangster Brown whom is in no small way responsible for the mess we are in now, with experience like that I would certainly prefer a novice with fresh ideas

Cameron and Osborne are moving in the right direction. Now that they have been prodded back into the realms of good sense, it behoves us all to support them again. Even better, they are now using the coherence of their position to subject that keg-handed, slab-faced lardbut at number 10 to the drubbing he deserves. True, the thuggish Campbell and the poisonous Mandelson are busily brewing their venom all over again, but the public is sick of it. Somebody from the Tory party should be orchestrating a well run dirty tricks campaign with which to discredit, divide and pick off such creatures - before turning to the rest of the pack. With a bit of cool, a little drive and a whole lot of rhetoric, we could bring Labour down to the dustiest defeat in its history. Don't look upon the looming recession as a sea of troubles, but as an opportunity to return vigorously to the attack. It is Brown's recession and we should look like sorry fools in future years if we fail to make this crystal clear.

There's a good turnout on this thread tonight. I haven't seen so many Labour supporters for a long time!

Listen, this narrowing of the gap was bound to happen. The incumbent Government holds all the cards at a time of crisis. But today we started the fight back, and for this George Osborne is surely the person most responsible. We now have a good narrative. Let's see what happens when the recession kicks in.

The great thing now is that there's a real fight. No gestures here, smart speeches there. It's a national fight for the future of our country AND WE ARE GOING TO WIN!


No I don't have specific examples, though I expect if I trawled through the posts at that time I could find a few but as we agree- the majority of people here have best of intentions and there is nothing wrong in celebrating success in itself.

I thought Cameron was spot on when he stressed at the conference the need not to appear triumphalist- I thought he was very astute in recognising this as an issue. I found that period a little uncomfortable on here as there were a fair few posts on this site from people who appeared to have become drunk on the idea of being back in power and suddenly saw it as an opportunity to push for more radical traditional Conservative policy.

I acknowledge it is entirely a matter of perception, but for what it is worth I have no interest in winding people up here or trying to boost Labour's standing. I just recall the negative feeling I had about this issue at the time and thought it might be interesting to others, hopefully that is the case.

It won't be the Conservatives last chance anyway, I imagine they will put together a good lead again shortly, but the way they conduct themselves when they do might be fairly crucial.

Maybe I am way off the mark, it wouldn't be the first time!

Mike Smithson posted an interesting analysis of the details of this poll over on politicalbetting. Ipsos/MORI are the only one of the major pollsters who don't weight by past vote recall (as a rule of thumb, the more past vote recall is taken into account, the better the poll will be for the Conservatives). This has led to Ipsos/MORI polls being more volatile.

Although Ipsos/MORI don't weight by past vote recall, they still ask the question. This revealed that they polled 7 Labour voters for every 2 LibDems. The actual result at the last election was 3 Labour votes for every 2 LibDems. Mike Smithson's calculations suggest that other pollsters faced with the same raw data would have given the LibDems about 4%-5% higher with almost all of the gain coming from Labour.

I gather there is an ICM poll due in the next week. Mike Smithson's research suggests that they are the most accurate pollster. It will be interesting to see what they say.

Cameron has made more appearances in the media recently. If he continues to get exposure, that should improve our standing in the polls. He is our biggest electoral asset.

One thing is for sure - fighting amongst ourselves does the party no good at all. Our enemy is Labour. Brown wants to destroy us permanently. That is where we should be aiming our fire.

Labour's rise and rise seem unstoppable.

I despair. I really do.

Cameron and Osborne have blown it. Come back David Davis, all is forgiven.

This is no mystery.

Cameron can do emotion, Brown can do sums. Now that the economy is the big issue, Brown's bound to pull ahead a bit. Also, Cameron's stuck with Osborne, who Mandie has so skilfully broken.

More generally (and at the risk of being called a labour troll) I must admit I'm impressed by the way Mandie's turned things around for lab.

Look at how much the polls have changed since he slithered back onto the scene !

You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong.

You cannot help the wager by pulling down the wage payer. You cannot help the poor by destroying the rich.

You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they could and should do for themselves..

John Henry Boetcker

You cannot help this country by voting for ZaNuLabour

Can you help this country by voting for the David Cameron Party?

You tell me! I really want to be convinced!

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