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I think what yesterday showed was that Brown has no emotional empathy whatsoever with the electorate.

Everything to him is committees, reviews and numbers on a spreadsheet.

This will not be lost on an electorate that is already starting to hurt and worry.

What a load of rubbish , come off it this smacks of desperation and grasping at straws . Just think two months ago people on this site were saying it,s all over and it's in the bag .

I predicted this would happen as both Cameron and Osborne are not up to the job and are not real Conservatives. Men of straw and no substance . Very good at PR, if you want to run a advert to sell cornflakes!

But then what am I but a troll of one sort or another. As I said before we need to wake up to reality and first of all if Cameron wants to show that he has any kind of leadership qualities he should sack Osborne and bring back John Redwood NOW !!

I predicted this would happen as both Cameron and Osborne are not up to the job and are not real Conservatives

Predicted what would happen? ... everyone's been predicting a brown bounce and it's been allowed to happen to give him confidence - a beaten brown goes into his bunker and would never quit however bad it got and would even make things worse just to spite people.

If brown can't show emotion or empathy for a dead child then it's simply not believeable that he can feel the pain of the millions of people who he has beaten into the poverty trap and who live with misery of the bust day after day, who he tries to console by saying that it's not a tory bust so he hasn't lied and everything is fine - which he has statistics to "prove"

To Gezmond00,

Fundamentally, you have to remember that the public has been indoctrinated and numbed by over ten years of political correctness, ideologies that don't make sense to anyone and injustices from the current Government. The more right wing approach could be dangerous. I think DC has the right mix to appeal to peoples ideas about the how society should change. I agree John Redwood would be good, but he will probably end up a minister in the next Government anyhow...

"Cameron wants to show that he has any kind of leadership qualities he should sack Osborne and bring back John Redwood NOW !!"

So Brown can just bounce his tractor statistics off someone else?

Part of leadership isnt generating your own ideas, its putting them into practice.

Osborne had a leading role in ending the Brown bounce last year with his IHT announcement, how do you know it wont happen again in the future?

Brown is a bean counter - he likes counting how many beans he can take from everyone else. He is not very good at it, but it is what he is - one dimension, no more, no less.

At least the tory front bench is 3D.

One of the things that needs to be done is to (metaphoricaly) paint a picture of what they want the country to look like in 5 or 10 years time and them ram it down everyones throat.

Shift the focus from the fine detail of precisely which penny gets transferred from which budget to where; instead focus on what needs to be in place to maximise the quality of life for each british citizen, however old or young. Child safety, parental responsibility, family support, democratic accountability of the state to the people...

Would those be the same punters who got the Glenrothes result so spectactularly wrong?

In the current recession, the fact that Cameron does not think that it is important to have a Shadow Chancellor working 100% on that role (no outside interests, no other party roles) shows the real weakness, imho.

It is like the Tories are playing at this, and not taking it seriously at all.

We need 100% committment now, not if and when the Tories get elected.

Hi Norm , I predicted three months ago that unless we got our head out of the sand that by Christmas the 20% lead will have gone and we are not far away from that.

You can't keep someone in a job who's obviously not capable of doing it just because he's you best buddy.

Paul if Cameron doesn't act now we won't be on government to give John Redwood a job !

John Redwood is very convincing when debating financial and economic matters, and the more incensed he becomes the better he performs. Someone should always get him very annoyed about something before he appears on TV.

John Redwood is a good choice, but Ken Clarke is better, in my opinion.

Part of the reason for Labour's incompetence and lackwittedness generally is that they have little or no understanding of how the real world actually works. I am never again going to campaign for anyone who has not had a genuine, risk-taking, performance-paid, profit-generating job outside the political sphere. Let the front bench keep their outside interests as long as they prioritise their public duties. If you want something done properly, ask a busy person.

I predicted three months ago that unless we got our head out of the sand that by Christmas the 20% lead will have gone and we are not far away from that.

gez, are you really trying to tell me that you thought 20% sustainable? None of the serious commentators thought that would be the case regardless of what the Tories did. The 10%+ average that we see is sustainable, but that's because it's more realistic towards what we could expect at a general election.

More importantly you are completely ignoring what this thread is about - that Brown is a one-trick pony and can't cope with surprises, whereas Cameron can deal with more issues.

Question for you - how do you think the public would respond to yesterday? I can imagine but would like to hear it from you first.

OK, Tim, where's the poll from a reputable source on this one?

@narcissa - then where are they in the political debate?

@Raj - fine after the event but what were you saying in June then?

20% is not sustainable. Evidently neither is 10%, given Glenrothes. I doubt this little incident will move the polls back, since it happened in the debating chamber and not at a policy launch.

I'm sorry, I really am, but this reminds me of how I was four years ago - every little thing Michael Howard did got me excited, yet we still lost, and I'm seeing it get more hysterical the more little things happen. We need strong, lasting political developments from a focussed Shadow Cabinet with the eye on the ball - Tuesday's non-launch will matter much more than this little bit of fluff.

I'm afraid I agree with Nick Robinson - it was because our lot didn't want to talk about the economy that they brought this up. It was cheap and it was awful. Brown didn't come out of it well, but people will vote for policies, not purposeless anger at an election. I'm as sorry as everyone else is about Baby P - I had a boyfriend working for Brum social services and the stuff he dealt with at work is horrific - but this play-acting in the middle of a recession will get old pretty soon.

Most of the sketches have it that it was the House at its worst, on both sides, not at its best. Media bias, eh?

Did you actually see PMQ's Louise? If you had you surely wouldn't describe it as play acting. It's not because I'm a Conservative but because I'm a human being that I think Brown disgraced himself yesterday.

"But then what am I but a troll of one sort or another."

Yes, you are.

You should read the 300 comments on Nick Robinson`s blog and the intelligent articles in the Times today.
liz kemp

@ Louise

fine after the event but what were you saying in June then?

I do not know what I said here, but between this and politicalbetting I do not remember ever saying that 20% was reasonable/sustainable. When I did express an opinion it was that this wasn't going to be a trend - I always look at the averages, not single polls.

Evidently neither is 10%, given Glenrothes

The polling average is still above 10%. As I said, look at the average, not single polls. Glenrothes had little to do with the Tories for obvious reasons.

since it happened in the debating chamber and not at a policy launch

That doesn't really make a difference. The PMQ row was all over the media, so if people would ever care they would do so in this case.

As for what your view on it, liz and Malcolm make good points. Just because the Westminster Village thought it was "unseemly" or whatever doesn't mean Joe Public won't think Cameron was spot on. Certainly you are wrong to think that he tried to make the row happen. He planned on having one or at most two questions on it. His first was on the economy and he implied he was going to revisit it. But he got so annoyed by the Labour benches trying to shut him up and Brown's inability to agree politely/withdraw cheap comments that he pressed the matter.

I'm so glad David Cameron went on this subject of baby 'p'. He showed his utmost compassion which was felt throughout the country. The Labour 'bayers' were shown to be arrogant and ignorant. Their true colours. Brown is getting arrogant too. Thinks he is above such trivial things. Eight years since the other horror, and still no one has taken the blame. Haringay council have done nothing to improve things. How many other children are suffring behind closed doors under the so called 'council care'...

So, the inquiry isn't for another two weeks into the horrific death of baby 'p'. Nothing else is being done. No one is being suspended immediately. Right! At this very minute and many more minutes for two weeks, some child could be being submitted to torture. Well, it's only two weeks isn't it Prime Minister...?

How about a campaign to get "Prime Ministers Questions" renamed to "Prime Ministers Answers" - just to remind Brown what is supposed to happen?

You know if staff at Haringey put as much effort into protecting children as they put into protecting themselves they might be a model for the rest of the country.

I still think that yesterday Cameron appeared as much concerned with his own pride at Brown's jibe than the situation in Haringey. Yes its true that Brown doesn't shine when it comes to empathy but he does give the appearance of gravitas.
If Cameron had been facing Blair across the chamber yesterday the crocodile tears and faux indignation, exuded between the two of them, would have made me throw up!

As for bringing John Redwood back as replacement for Osbourne. Well if we're saying that Brown is turning people off with his dry unsympathetic manner, surely the Vulcan is going to send voters away in droves!

"think what yesterday showed was that Brown has no emotional empathy whatsoever with the electorate."

To start with I thought that DC had got it very wrong, but the fact is people seemed to side with him. However the fact is that many people found the whole thing, the shouting in the house and the ill temper deeply disturbing. In the end it did start to look as though this awful death of a child had been turned into a party political punch and Judy match.
I don’t think anyone can crow about a victory.

Bring Back REDWOOD !!

Posted by: The Bishops Wife | November 13, 2008 at 17:15

John Redwood NOW !!

Posted by: gezmond007 | November 13, 2008 at 10:51

As Paxo would say: Yeeeeeesss!

To say that Gordo is winning all the plaudits on the economy but Cameron is winning on all the other issues is frankly desperation on your part. Elections are won and lost on the economy. People vote on whether a government can make their life easier, (misguided in the case of this government). When I heard the Tories economic plan the other day, which made no mention of tax cuts for ordinary people, (even when its the zeitgeist)! I went to bed with a cold flannel. What the electorate won't be saying to themselves is that although they have no money to pay the bills, at least Dave cares about the family! It's the blah blah stupid, it always was and it always will be, and while we have George and Dave (who couldn't run a corner shop) at the helm, we haven't a cat in hell's chance of winning the next election.
By the way, did anyone see Jeremy Hunt on question time last night? I have never in my lifetime seen anyone so out of his depth on the political stage. Dave has pooled all of his chums onto the front bench, and they haven't got a clue. It was embarrasing.

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