Mandelson: We shouldn't bash the Tories but leave them behind in the battle of ideas

I'm at the TUC HQ and the Annual Conference of "Progress" - speaking later on a panel with Hazel Blears about the Conservative party.  These are highlights from a captivating and often amusing interview just given by Lord Mandelson to The Guardian's Martin Kettle. Paraphrasing, not verbatim unless in quotation marks:

Being Lord Mandelson: It's a rejuvenating thing being in the Lords. Everyone else is a little older! The Lords are seriously-informed, very clever and unwilling to give up their line of questioning until they have an answer. I'm "conservative" about Lords reform. I respect it as it is and don't want it to rival the Commons.

Being "happier": I hadn't expected to return to UK politics. I'd expected to earn my living after Brussels and enjoy myself. Perhaps "a little boating"! I'm happier now in Government than last time. I feel more relaxed with my colleagues. They are less suspicious of me. Less jealous than when I was "Tony Blair's guy".  People made ridiculous assumptions about my influence [pause] "...by and large"!

'Me and Brown': "We had a famously difficult relationship". I've rediscovered in Gordon in what I saw originally. His big brain. His prodigious work ethic. His sense of humour "which has been well hidden from me for the last ten years!" We've begun again.

I'm more Heseltine than Benn: Who would have thought in 1997 that we would have to take majority stakes in some banks?  But "needs must".  Asked about news reports that he is drawing up a list of businesses that are essential to the wealth creating future he answered that he wanted to be more like Michael Heseltine, less like Tony Benn, in wanting to intervene before breakfast, lunch and dinner in the interests of British business. Thinking is preliminary.

Next steps for Labour: We have a real challenge at the next election to show that we haven't run out of steam. New policy ideas and a doubling of energy are essential. Three priorities are education, innovation and readiness for economic internationalisation.

In response to questions:

The Euro: Europe is our domestic market and our currency belongs in the euro. Within the currency we'll eliminate transaction costs and be part of the monetary policy decisions that so affect us. But there is enough to occupy us for the next year or two so immediate discussion of membership is off the agenda.

Obama is New Labour: His campaign was characterised by competence, dignity, ideas and enthusiasm. Nothing backward-looking. Nothing secretarian. Not imprisoned by old ideologies. Those are all old New Labour qualities.

How to beat the Conservatives: The Tories have reverted to the one club policies of the 1980s. The Conservative Party has become more laissez-faire again, not so interventionist - precisely at the wrong time. The Tories are stuck where Labour was circa 1997 believing that policies can be put on the back of a pledge card. The times are much complex today. Labour shouldn't bash the Tories but leave them behind in policy thinking and innovation.

Tim Montgomerie

Comments

[Sally Roberts]

"Less jealous than when I was "Tony Blair's guy"."

What a strange thing to say....!

[Stop_Common_Purpose]

Battle for ideas? New Labour only have one idea - Fabian Communitarianism.

Common Purpose is the management mechanism being used to carry out the true and hidden agenda of Fabian New Labour.

[scribbler 3]

It is exactly that that worries me about Obama.

[jsfl]

Given that Mandelson has been given the role of playing God over suffering businesses, I think the powers that be will need to pay close attention to the Labour Donor list to ensure that there is no correlation between those who are 'saved' by this corporate messiah and those who donate to the Labour Party (trade unions included).

After all we know how Labour have beaten the Tories in the 'battle of ideas' front over the last 10 years. Cassh For Honours was a doozy!

[rugfish]

On Michael Heseltine - he'd have to grow a backbone to be like him.

On his 3 priorities - the man is rolling out the same sucker punch he used in 1997 just he used education once not 3 times. The other two priorities are meaningless spin.

On the Euro - he gives away his intention to destroy sterling if ever elected again but not to put it in a manifesto because he's scared to tell the truth.

On his new found love for Brown - obviously this is a lie so nothing else he says can be believed.

On the Lords - he helped to disable it so of course he's happy there being fed for nothing by decent citizens who's power he helped to destroy.

I have tuppence here but he can't have it for the rest of his political "ideas" because the man is an arse.

[Tom FD]

He's talking about "old New Labour"!

It strikes me that Mandelson's "do nothing" attack should be deflected back onto Labour. Didn't they have a whole year after the Northern Rock flag was lowered to sort out the problems in the banking system? And instead they just flailed about worrying about their poll rating until it came to absolute crisis point. (And then wasted even more weeks before doing snything.)

Furthermore, by "do" I think Labour means "waste lots of money" and/or "politicise". The Tories have lots of plans for weathering the recession, but they involve reconfiguring the system rather than lots of spending and borrowing. After eleven years of Labour just throwing money at every problem until it goes away, it seems clear that this approach doesn't work and ultimately makes things worse.

[m dowding]

An odious and unmentionable creep. Part of a movement that has destroyed my life-time's pension saving, put this country in hock for the rest of my life and now sits there like the cat that got the cream. Around him sit starry eyed young bucks drooling on every word oozing from his mouth. Tim, I am 64 years old and well recognise the awfulness of men like this. Just as George discovered in the summer, you need a very long spoon. I hope you do have such a culinary item. This creep has a reputation for predelictions and a history of fulfiling them that is as chilling as the arrest of Damien Green. To place this ghastly monologue of hubris here is not something I applaud. His wealth and priveleged background is never mentioned, whilst he orchestrates the hate and bile directed at our Leadership and front bench. Nope, this man fills me with dread, fear and loathing. Hateful creature, smug in his successful avoidance of discovery. There may, however still be time. One last note, I am not surprised to see Lord Robertson pop out of the woodwork. No coincidence, I suspect.
Rugfish, man after my own heart, unlike the subject of this post!

[Great Britain SSR]

I notice Stop Common Purpose keeps making refrence to the influence of, or perhaps more acurately the direction by, Common Purpose on Labour policy and actions.

No one ever debates with him/her on this claim. I wonder why ?

[rugfish]

Posted by: m dowding | November 29, 2008 at 15:39

Thank you m dowding and your blog shows a very delightful perfection of englishness.

I see you also have a Doberman ( as I do ).

Regards,
Eddie

[rugfish]

GB SSR, I know a fair bit about Common Purpose and no one ever debated with me about it either.

Brian Gerrish is the man who has it all and who that information links to would make people hair curl.

Incidentally there is no doubt that the entire parties of all sides are all fully aware of it too and they never debate it either.

[Patsy Sergeant]

'Labour shouldn't bash the Tories, but leave them behind in policy thinking and innovation'

This strikes me as the start of a damage limitation exercise!!

I realise that this maybe just a quote:- 'The Tories are stuck where Labour was circa 1997 believing that policies can be stuck on the back of a pledge card.' If the year 1997 is right - WELL - what happened to Labour in that year and for the next eleven years - postage stamp policies or not! - - - -

[pp]

The russians have said that he did discuss EU tarrifs with Oleg (so far admitted to wood tarrifs) - but still no account of his meetings...

I saw the lords comittee meeting where it was expected to be picked up - mandleson was asked one question on another subject, and then proceeded to talk solidly until time was up -- not leaving any time for any other questions.

So much for "The Lords are seriously-informed, very clever and unwilling to give up their line of questioning until they have an answer.".

The other big question right now is as per http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7756155.stm where he says that it is impossible to say how long or deep the recession will be - so he aparantly doesn't support brown/darlings line on this - but will anyone pin the squirming creature down?...

[Great Britain SSR]

Thank you Rugfish. I have seen Brian Gerrish's presentations on You Tube.

I am also aware of Julia Middleton's book "Leadership beyond Authority," the title of which betrays the undemocratic nature of Common Purpose aims and the influence of that organisation in Local and Central Government, Media, Police, Education etc, even the Church, heaven forbid.

Their finger prints are all over the arrest of Damian Green. I think most of us have the picture, Rule outside the Law and Democratic process.

[rugfish]

Posted by: Great Britain SSR | November 29, 2008 at 16:07

When you consider the police is literally infested with Common Purpose 'graduates' and look at the evidence as the echelon's its web reaches to in government and across local government and Europe and America through its other arms and legs of secrecy and 'leading beyond authority', then ANYTHING is possible.

I and many others have called for a parliamentary enquiry into this for many months. Even the queen was petitioned about it and some have even taken up complaints to the police.

NOTHING has been done despite all parties being aware of it but I know that ONE MP has raised the question of its funding many times in the commons.

[rugfish]

This should get you started on CP but I've just Googled it and found over a qtr of a million links on it.

http://www.ivc6.com/greenfieldtv/remote.php

[not a pc comment]

HOMOPHOBIC COMMENT OVERWRITTEN.

[m dowding]

Posted by: rugfish | November 29, 2008 at 15:45

Well, thank you kind Sir. Our Dobie is a first defense!

[Sally Roberts]

Blair's nickname in his youth was reputed to have been "Miranda"! That said, I couldn't care less what either of them might have done together or with anyone else - but I do think people should be honest about these things.
As for the subject of Common Purpose - I have read Julia Middleton's book and as far as I can see it can be interpreted as a book on leadership and management which encourages people to think "outside the box" and not merely manage according to their own narrow remit. Of course I could be totally naive about this (and I am sure many of you will tell me if I am!) but I do think we should be careful about demonising organisations in this way. I think of other groups which some of us may well belong to which could also be seen to come into this category.

[Carl]

What a joke from that slug Mandy. It's ZanuLabour's crass ideas that have landed us in the current mess. He and his fellow brain-dead morons in the government haven't had a good idea in the whole of their freeloading lives.

[MG]

Mandelson is a poisonous and dangerous person but he is far from stupid so don't be too quick to dismiss some of the ideas (spin) he is plotting.

[not a pc comment]

Posted by: not a pc con man

Mandelson is deserving of such an ass wipping if you prefer, I am not Homophobic in any sence you would care to argee with, I am opposed only to the type not the person the error and the way of the error is my concern. I hate all sinning and I am not here to comprimise on my view. If that is homophobia then so be it, its of no concern to gchq.

[Philip]

On the Euro, Mandelson is quoted above as saying (although I note the Ed says it is paraphrased):

Europe is our domestic market (Did he really say this?) Rubbish. The UK is our “domestic” market! And I understood (correctly?) we have bigger international trade with countries outside of Europe than states in the Euro-zone do.
and our currency belongs in the euro if this was paraphrased correctly, it seems to me more spin treating us all as stupid. This isn't talking about currencies being 'linked' to another, but "in" another. How can one currency be “in” another? Maybe I’m not understanding something. This is bit like the propaganda which spoke of us “joining the Euro” as if it were like some exciting new club. The pound will be abolished, cease to exist.
Within the currency we'll eliminate transaction costs and be part of the monetary policy decisions that so affect us. Losing our currency and a big chunk of our sovereignty or even our existence as a sovereign nation (let alone one-size fits all interest rates) is a big price to pay for these advantages. How do Norway and Switzerland cope?
But there is enough to occupy us for the next year or two so immediate discussion of membership is off the agenda. A warning that if Labour are allowed to win the next GE, they’ll try to abolish our currency? (Would this be Gordon Brown’s policy, or is it Mr Mandelson just hoping or trying to bounce him?)

[SuperBlue]

Sally,

re: Miranda; according to my information, you have the wrong Labour PM on the general point!

Stephen.

[Mark Williams]

Labour lost the war of ideas when they espoused both globalisation and high taxation. You can't run an open competitive economy if you burden it with a high tax cost of doing business, because those cmpanies will be destroyed by lower cost competitors.

[Eveleigh Moore-Dutton]

When NuLabour came to power I thought that they had found a way of nationalising through the backdoor and without the requirement to provide capital/compensation to do so. I thought that they would achieve this by regulating to such a degree that they had effective control of the running of all businesses. With their EU allies they very nearly succeeded and in doing so made such a bureaucratic burden that many of our businesses sank or are sinking under the load.

Now they are nationalising the banks and raising debt to do so.

Perhaps they were more left wing than I anticipated - perhaps they are more socialist than they anticipated!