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"There is also a real possibility of unity within the Conservative Party"

There will be no peace in the Tory Party until and unless the leadership grasp the EU nettle.

Same policy as the last Election isn't it?

Remember the James Review?

That phrase was pinched from David Miliband who used it on AM the other day!

I'm not sure how you can be celebrating the move from "Game Over" (for Labour) to "Game On"

But I've got to agree with our friendly Ukipper d_A_h. The euros are just waiting to bite Cameron on the backside.

You are indulging in wishful thinking.

Cameron is not suggesting that the "public sector tightens its belt", he suggested that the public sector lets it belt out more slowly than Labour would. That means the size of the public sector will increase compared with a shrinking private sector, not that it will decrease. What fiscal conservatives want is a smaller state, not a bigger one.

David_at_home, that's not a threat is it? At the moment the EU issue is nowhere on the public's agenda radar - why would anyone in the Tory party want to push an issue that the electorate are happy to deal with after the election or at least after the recession?

Surely some extra borrowing will be needed to deal with reduced tax income and more social security. In addition, surely SOME well-judged reduction in taxation (not covered by cuts in expenditure) may boost the health of the economy - eg taking more people at the bottom out of tax to reduce reliance on benefits.

"why would anyone in the Tory party want to push an issue that the electorate are happy to deal with after the election or at least after the recession?"

Um, a wild guess, but maybe because there are euro elections and an EPP withdrawal pledge due next year?

Cameron and Osborne are still approaching the issue of the economy as though it were exclusively about the Government's mis-management during the boom years. Obviously, they have a strong case to make here, but I'm afraid it is coming across to the electorate as very one-sided and (dare one say it) mean-spirited at a time of national crisis. What do the Tories think about the failures of the banking system, the reform of global financial institutions, the excesses of free market liberalism (eg the fact that health care in much of Eastern Europe is now much worse than it was under the communists)? Total silence (unless I've missed it.) They need to come across as much more statesmanlike in the way they respond to this crisis. Obama is an obvious example of how it should be done, but he doesn't carry the ideological baggage that the Tories carry from the Major years, when they pressed the case for free markets too far with disastrous results. People still remember this, and will return to the comfort zone of the centre left unless the Tories develop a wider vision. I still think on balance that the Tories will win the next election on a change platform, but the necessary components of a strong 'change' agenda and message are not yet in place.

Game on indeed.

maybe because there are euro elections and an EPP withdrawal pledge due next year?

What exactly are the European elections going to "force" on the party that have to be dealt with then and there?

As for the EPP pledge, if members put the good of the party and getting into office above their own concerns that the public couldn't give two hoots about they should allow the matter to be deferred until after the general election.


It is going to take a lot of work to keep this up till the next election -- probably full time jobs...

RE: Europe

Unless this is an election decider, it can be put off while we concentrate on more immediate problems. I don't want to be part of the EU as it is currently structured (and I don't beleive it can be restructured from the inside) - all I'd ask for now is a commitement if being properly addressed.

Not being a socialist, I don't need fantastically detailed plans/policies before thinking about making a decision - establishing the main principals and agreeing to genuinely discuss things in that light will do me for now.

The same negative voices piping up again, I see. But I agree with Tim.

The social responsibility agenda is natural Conservative ground... i.e. people and communities taking more responsibility for themselves, rather than government providing the answers the whole time. By contrast, the prudent approach to the economic climate was necessary in order regain the trust of the British people.

However, the economic climate has changed, and with it so has the rules of the game. More radical policies are required as we are in a more severe economic climate. When people are comfortable, they don't want radical government – now that this comfort has evaporated we need to be bolder with our policies. And that's what we're now seeing.


"No plan for reducing the costs of social failure and the resulting demands on the taxpayer"

..should read...

"A flat refusal to admit that social breakdown is even a problem"

Otherwise spot on.

Shouldn't the first entry on the right-hand column read 'Tax cuts' rather than 'Taxes'? You don't fund taxes with spending - quite the reverse in fact.

Yes Adam I would agree with you there!!!

The whole world, including the IMF and the BoE are calling for economic stimulation notably by tax cuts. No mention of this at all. Brown will press this of course and people want few excuses to be grateful for any hand out. Big hole needing to be filled.

Interesting that tax cuts are suddenly a good idea.

Thank you Seven Twelve. You are quite right and I've updated the graphic.


Two clear directions are now open to the British people. Two perspectives that will determine the political landscape for the next twenty years. Labour's debt agenda will weigh our country down and anchor us to high taxation for years to come. The alternative is a return to the politics of sobriety, of balanced books and realistic expectations as to what the state should and can achieve.

Osborne is not ready for prime time.

Time to get someone who is up to the job.

Remember - still got to wait for the pre-budget statement, Brown has been flying kites for weeks - he could still steal the 'funded tax cuts' policy.

In fact after he announced the launch of his last master plan which the treasury denied any knowlege of, and then darling had to hack together over a week end, anything is possible.

The tories have really boxed him in by denying him the 'prudent' position without massive loss of face, but then he hasn't got much to lose!

Tories would have to support it, and he could make a virtue out of necessity.

'he could still steal the 'funded tax cuts' policy.'

pp - they already have, y cooper has outlined the 1st greshem savings were 26 billion to the expected 21 billion.

expect greshem 2 to be 30/35 billion.

mandleson has opened a box & dave/george's Nu-Con just jumped straight into it.

Novices written all over.

Very good comparison chart - lets hope the Conservative Party themselves utilise something different to show the differences between the parties and then get selling our message clearly and concisely.

I have found louise's blog. She posts on politics home too.

And low and behold she isn't a tory!


How do you know that it is the same Louise? You seem rather obsessed with her because you have posted the same comment on three threads. There are several posters on here who admit to supporting other parties. I can only assume that you work for CCHQ or are a rather sad weirdo, possibly even a stalker.

Today, the IoD backed Brown against Cameron.

Miles Templeman, Director General of the IoD, said:

"The IoD believes a fiscal stimulus is necessary because reductions in interest rates will not in themselves turn the economy round. The British and world economies are experiencing a once in a generation financial crisis where monetary policy is potentially pushing on a string. The stimulus should be given through tax cuts and not through increased spending, aside from one-off infrastructure projects which can be brought forward."

"Whilst the IoD continues to advocate a significant medium to long-term reduction in the size of the state, we also recognise that extraordinary times call for extraordinary measures. Crucially however, our fiscal stimulus focuses on lower taxes and productive infrastructure investment. Almost the opposite of fiscal policy in recent years."

Richard Lambert of the CBI said:

“In the current exceptional circumstances the CBI believes there is a case for a well targeted, controlled and time limited fiscal stimulus in the immediate future."

If Cameron and Osborne had been prepared then it would now be game over not game on.

They have been shockingly unprepared. Despite having a whole year since Northern Rock to realise that this country had an emperor's new clothes economy.

They need to make up for their slackness by total commitment and action over the next few months. Every other Conservative MP and candidate should do the same. There is a very real threat of a spring election after a lie-to-bribe budget.

I only know of A Cllr from his/here postings here - seems to be a pretty solid bod.

However, Louises blog is easily found by clicking on her name at the end of any of her messages here.

Regarding Lousies comments (and those of many others in many places) - a plausible looking arguement can be made to support absolultely anything... but once someone has estabilshed themselves as posting spurious arguments they should only be read if you really want to be wound up.

Even gordon brown picking his nose and wiping it on his tie in the house of commons on live TV could be portrayed as the actions of a social leaper and misfit, or it could be portrayed as something really bad...

"They have been shockingly unprepared. Despite having a whole year since Northern Rock to realise that this country had an emperor's new clothes economy."
Posted by: Another Richard | November 18, 2008 at 22:53

Spot on !

But at least they have acted and we must now hope they take better advice and have the courage to eschew Brown's economic illiteracy and pursue a responsible course for the good of the citizens of this country.

Louise is a Gloy Plopwell mode troll.

I firmly believe Cameron has saved our poll leads today. His timing during his leadership has mostly been excellent.

Game off!
Most of the things on this list are under the control of the EU

Hurrah, Dave has declared himself a true-blue Tory, and opted for the cost-cutting options! How original, I suppose he will now continue in this vein & proceed to lose the next election. His predecessors (Hague & Howard) have lit the way and you yourself Tim, seemed inordinately pleased on some TV channel or other that the 'lemming option' had been decided upon. Do we never learn? Come the cold light of day & people are asked to choose for their schools and hospitals to be under-funded (for make no mistake --- that is surely how it will be presented) yes, thats a really good idea! All you guys that seem to be either semi or pro politicans, in a tight corner always opt for dogma above all else. Take it from a layman, politics are visceral & political judgement more ephemeral than an English Summer!

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