Live blog of PMQs from noon

VERDICT: "Given the Tories' decision to back Labour's bailout David Cameron had little room for political opportunity today and chose a bipartisan path. On another occasion the Conservatives must make it clear that Labour has left Britain more vulnerable than most other economies to the global financial chaos. Labour must not be allowed to disguise its own serious errors behind that chaos for much longer.  But that is for another day.  Brown was in command of PMQs today."

Highlights, not verbatim:

12.19pm: Nick Clegg backs Government's package. Says when a ship is sinking you don't ask who steered it towards rocks, only to help reach for the lifeboats. Brown says he spoke to President Bush yesterday and there will be a meeting of international leaders soon. Clegg concludes by calling for tax cuts for low income workers. Brown replies by quoting existing government assistance programmes including the Winter Fuel Allowance and action on pre-payment electricity meters.

12.13pm: Cameron asks what action will be taken to stop banks paying bumper bonuses.  Conditions will be added replies Brown and the FSA will be issuing wide guidance on how remuneration packages should manage risk.  Cameron comes back on this issue twice; warning against "rewards for failure".  The Tory leader then asks for the Bank of England to have new powers to oversee debt levels in the economy.

12.08pm: The real test of the success of these measures says David Cameron is that small businesses and homebuyers can access money again.  How will the PM be measuring progress?  Gordon Brown replies that Government is aiming to pay Small and Medium-sized Enterprises within ten days to help their cashflow.

12.06pm: David Cameron gets up.  Says that the banking system is so important to the whole economy that it cannot be allowed to fail.  Brown thanks David Cameron for his support.

12.05pm: Gerald Kaufman refers to Gordon Brown as "my Prime Minister"!

Noon: INTEREST RATES HAVE JUST BEEN CUT BY 0.5%.

Greg Hands wants David Cameron to go in hard.

Comments

[Cleethorpes Rock]

It seems that every week, we hear the latest list of the brave servicemen to die in Blair's war.

It is a real tragedy that so many of our best people are dying for the Iraq lie. There's nothing conservative about going along with war for war's sake, and by continuing to throw money and blood at the problem, we are making the our country more in debt and less safe.

[GB£.com]

"INTEREST RATES HAVE JUST BEEN CUT BY 0.5%"

Across the world. So a massive % cut in the USA.

[RichardJ]

Why is Cameron not ripping Brown to shreds?

[David_at_Home]

"INTEREST RATES HAVE JUST BEEN CUT BY 0.5%"

So, in the UK, interest rates are now well below RPIX, probably the best measure of inflation we have.

Is this really a good way to encourage the thrifty and discourage the borrow and spend culture which has brought all these problems down upon our heads?

[Richard]

Pathetic is the only word to describe how Cameron performed!

[Andrew Jackson]

"Why is Cameron not ripping Brown to shreds?"

Because the Tories have no answers. This plays to Brown's few strenghs. I think June '09 Election could be back on kids!

[Andrew Jackson]

"Pathetic is the only word to describe how Cameron performed!"

This is his worst moment since he became leader. I really think that.

[DCMX]

"The cupboard is bare" applies to Tory economic policy as well as the nation's Treasury.

[Cleethorpes Rock]

Brown just referred to some place called "Humberside", wherever that is.

[David]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humberside

[Andrew Sinclair]

"The cupboard is bare" applies to Tory economic policy as well as the nation's Treasury."

This isn't good guys. Maybe my previous comments were OTT, and the Tories are in a bloody hard position here. I just think we need some anger to come through, and I think that behind Cameron we need some big beasts. The Boy George just isn't yet ready.

[Deborah]

Is that all there is?

Brown was allowed to present himself as the statesman taking responsibility and dealing with the problems. How could Cameron let this happen?

We really are in trouble.

[Cleethorpes Rock]

Yes, David. Humberside no longer exists. East Yorkshire Exists. Lincolnshire exists. There is no such place as Humberside.

[Adam]

To be fair to Cameron, he is in a difficult position. We don't have an alternative strategy/policy and he doesn't want to be seen as making cheap points scoring comments so he's left with a subdued performance. Brown seems to be positively enjoying the financial crisis as its deflecting from his performance as leader of the Labour party.

[David]

"The name has continued in use as a geographic term and in names of institutions such as Humberside Police."

[David_at_Home]

The banking crisis is now over (at massive cost).

The Second Great Depression is about to begin.

[RichardJ]

"To be fair to Cameron, he is in a difficult position. We don't have an alternative strategy/policy"

Why not?!

[Tim Montgomerie]

Keep calm everyone. This will be one of Brown's best days. A recession won't be averted. I'm sure the public will hold Labour responsible for Britain's weaknesses if we continue to develop the appropriate critique.

[Cleethorpes Rock]

Alright David, over there in pedant's corner, fair enough. I was actually born in Humberside, but the phrase is never used round here anymore. I'm sorry my irrelevant aside has taken us off topic. Back to the impending doom facing the economy and Camron's shabby performance at PMQs!

[David]

"Why not?!"

Possibly because he doesn't have several hundred civil servants working it out for him.

[David_at_Home]

We, our children and our children’s children will be paying for this.

I want to see politicians, bankers and feckless borrowers all hanging from lampposts (metaphorical financial lampposts, of course).

[GB£.com]

"To be fair to Cameron, he is in a difficult position. We don't have an alternative strategy/policy "

Yes, let's lay off him for not having a clue.

What happens if Cameron wins an election? Will he be able to phone Brown and ask him what he would do if he was still pm?

Let's be honest, the entire Team Cameron narrative is a non-economic one (GWB, non econocentric etc) so changing world events have basically ripped a gaping whole in Hilton's sociocentric plan.

I really don't see how Team Cameron can not only change its narrative but also to get it to stick in the public's mind before the next election.

[Sean]

Such a range of emotions from people here. A few months ago, there was unanimous opinion that polls can only get better despite softness and length of time till the next election and now Brown is coming back and Cameron has failed... or something like that.

Everyone calm down and relax. Brown makes the decisions, we need to be bold in making statements but there is not much we can do in Opposition.

[R.Rowan]

David Cameron said he would back the government on this issue before he knew how the government intended to deal with the situation,this was a mistake and neutralised Cameron as far as todays PMQ'S were concerned.Brown whilst not the creator of this mess certainly aided its progression with his lack of regulation and should be held to account.Now all we need is a run on the pound and the IMF being called in and we're back to the seventies.

[Miranda]

Oh dear. So whilst the bullies get nastier, the Conservatives just stand by and let us take a beating. Thanks Dave!! Even if you are supporting the measure, you could at least have pointed out Brown's part in this, his dithering that has made it worse, and what it will mean for everyone of us !!

Verdict - absolutly useless

[punter]

Dear oh dear. Cameron was really bad and Brown whacked him with that rabbit punch at the end.

Labour are not back in contention - yet. But another few weeks like this and that 12/1 bet that Brown will lead Labour and Cameron won't lead the Tories at the next election might turn out to be a trading money spinner.

[Londoner]

The fact is that what the Govt has done this week (not how they got us here) is broadly correct. So what Cameron has done is not only politic, it is also correct.

However, I do think going on and on about remuneration, certainly as applied to main board directors, as opposed to skewed risk incentives amongst the deal makers, is besides the point and either shows, or is pandering, to ignorance. They will not get annual bonuses this year and most if not all of their longer term rewards are related to the shares, which are shot to pieces.

I fear some focus group has told them to go on about this but they should use their judgement and concentrate on the real issues.

P.S. I do not work in a bank!

[RichardJ]

"Possibly because he doesn't have several hundred civil servants working it out for him"

He doesn't need civil servants, he just needs to tell everyone the brutal and honest truth - that recession can't be reverted and that throwing more cash at the situation won't solve it.

[GB£.com]

I totally agree that Brown is an incompetent arse, but no neutral observer watching the news is going to see anything other than a global meltdown.

With banks collapsing across the world, I can't see the public responding positively to Tory claims that things were made worse by Brown (even though it is undoubtedly true). With this financial crisis, We appear to be in a war-time like period where party politics is suspended and pointscoring will be unpopular.

World events have unfairly given Jonah Brown a lifeline and if he calls the election before the turmoil ends, he could be gifted another term.

If only Team Cameron had not ignored the importance of developing a clear alternative economic approach to Labour instead of piggy-banking Brown's bloated state.

[RichardJ]

This post on Guido says it all:

"Cameron tried to be the statesman at PMQs by being supportive of the government but all he got was a kick in the teeth by Brown and jeers off the Labour rabble.

I hope Cameron learns from this and puts Brown on the rack from now on. Give him a break and he will only take the p***."

[Malcolm Dunn]

At a time like this the nation simply wants reassurance. The ONLY person that can give them that is the person with executive responsibility ie Brown. Who I thought had a good PMQ's today. He's undertaken a series of desperate measures which may or may not get us out of this situation. I don't know if they will but then neither do any other commentators on this thread. Had Cameron indulged himself in petty political point scoring he would have looked as if he was putting party before country which is surely completely unacceptable in these desperate times. I thought he did what any leader of the opposition should have done and tried to engender a spirit of unity to keep the electorate calm and instill some confidence in the markets.In the absence of any better ideas here or abroad I don not see what else Cameron could responsibly do.

[Andy]

Bipartisanship does not work with Brown - he and the demented chimps on the Labour backbenches just see it as weakness.

Time for Cameron to put the boot into this vile man for his failure to properly regulate the UK financial sector that has got us into this mess.

[Richard]

"Had Cameron indulged himself in petty political point scoring he would have looked as if he was putting party before country which is surely completely unacceptable in these desperate times."

How is it petty and point scoring to offer a serious critique of Brown's bail-out plan and highlight how Labour policies have contributed to this crisis? I don't think the posters here want Cameron to attack Brown for the sake of it, but because Brown has cocked up. If I was Cameron I'd be fuming at Brown.

[Iain]

"If only Team Cameron had not ignored the importance of developing a clear alternative economic approach to Labour instead of piggy-banking Brown's bloated state."

Yes, here we are in a once in a centaury economic melt down, which should have the Government on the rack, instead we find the Opposition in disarray. This sums up the abject failure of Osborne and the Shadow Treasury team over the last few years , who have failed to make any sort of critical analysis of Brown and his record, or establish any sort of economic narrative.

I would excluded Justine Greening from this blame, for the odd time I've seen her she held her own and made some telling points against the Government, may be that's the difference between being trained in business and economics and just having a modern history degree!

[Mike Thomas (215cu)]

There's little to be gained from scoring points, this is Labour's own Black Wednesday.

Let history and the electorate decide just how serious it was.

The public, I think, would prefer as much political nouse on this problem from all sides of the floor than a nasty squabble right now.

The public I feel are also well aware of who is to blame as well.

This will play out over the next few months as UK plc isn't going to recover from this very quickly at all. The inflationary picture will improve but a lot of damage has been done to household budgets though oil, food and mortgage increases.

Incidentally an equity backed rescue plan is exactly the kind that Cameron was suggesting on Sunday, so there was never going to be any room for manoeurve.

And what point is a Tory economic plan right now? The combined brains of the City of London are scratching their heads. Labour's own policy vacuum will simply steal it anyway.

[Iain]

"The public I feel are also well aware of who is to blame as well."

Are they? The last poll I saw put Brown and Darling above Cameron and Osborne on economic competence, which is not really surprising as the Conservatives have failed to establish in the publics mind why they should blame Brown, or why these economic woes go right to the door of Brown's No11.

[Treacle]

What price 'lovebombing' now???

The biggest financial cock up for decades and our repsonse?

'Whatever he said'

Pathetic

[James]

Some of us didn't see it.

What was Brown's 'rabbit punch at the end'?

In what way did he kick Cameron in the teeth?

[resident leftie]

Cameron and Osborne aren't out just out of economic ideas - they never really had any. They are fair weather politicians who might look presentable waving at the Olympics, or kissing babies. But when there's a world economic crisis (which despite comments to the contrary) we are as well placed to deal with as any other nation, it's Brown and Darling the public trust.

And to really establish how out of touch the Tories are - what is their ten minute bill? Counting how much of our legislation originates in the EU.

I say bring back Ken Clarke. At least he has a decent command of economics.

[Iain]

"In what way did he kick Cameron in the teeth?"

Cameron put on his serious face then went on a whole load of meandering rambling questions that seemed to lead nowhere, and having asked something about Bankers bonuses, Brown waited till the last question then quoted Cameron back something he said in his interview with Marr about not kicking bankers. It made Cameron look a right chump for playing the bi-partisan serious faced politician, and though Brown could be said to shown his tribal side with a national issue, it nevertheless is always better to be the person to walk away from a scrap than be the wimp left spluttering on the deck having had sand kicked in his face.

[Malcolm Dunn]

OK, Treacle (and others) should tell us what the Conservatives should propose? The best brains in London and around the world are fixated on this problem and none as yet have been able to come up with a credible strategy. No doubt Treacle and other commentators who are mostly hiding behind pseudonyms will be able to rectify that state of affairs.

[Malcolm Dunn]

I think Passing Leftie you are in no position to lecture anyone about anything. These problems have emerged on your sides watch. As much as you seek to make silly party political points today you really can't blame the Conservative Party for anything.

[GB£.com]

"And what point is a Tory economic plan right now? The combined brains of the City of London are scratching their heads."

So many people in the City and outside have been warning about the dangerous house price bubble since 2003 fuelled by too low interest rates and mad lending.

This could and should have been a vital narrative by the Tories. Instead they simply sought more ways to get people 'on the ladder' (it's a snake now) and addressed credit card debt by calling people 'tossers'.

Of course it would have been impossible for Britain to avoid this global shock, but the tory party singularly failed to clearly instil in the minds of the British public what Brown's contribution to the mess was.

"OK, Treacle (and others) should tell us what the Conservatives should propose? "
So many Tories on this site have been screaming for the past 3 years that the Shadow Treasury team keep letting the government off the hook. You have missed your opportunity. Events have now taken over, and I really don't think there is anything you can do.

[Iain]

"OK, Treacle (and others) should tell us what the Conservatives should propose? "

Well they could have listened to some of us on this board years ago, right now as we are where we are, its a matter of throwing money at the problem and hope we get through it without terminally damaging the prospects of the next decade. But long term, as or current problem was one of an economy built on debt, consumption, and speculation, we have to change the emphasis of our economy starting with building up a culture of savings, not relying on property as an econmic driver, and diversifying our economy away from relying on the City for wealth creation.

[JC]

PANIC! PANIC!

Hahaha!

As if PMQs ever made a difference. When Hague slammed Blair around the place no one cared. And people won't care if Cameron's attempts at bipartisanship were rejected - they might care that Brown was trying to score points off that, though.

The only thing they will care about is their pockets, which Brown can't do much about. Yes, I'm sure some people here want blood - but I want never gets. Cameron should blame Brown for things he did. He didn't cause the international credit crisis - he ran the budget down. There is a time and a place for everything, and I don't think this was the time to savage him. Saying "this won't work" invites the question "what will you do?" Saying "nothing will work" is like saying "we're doomed anyway, but please vote for me - we'll make things better after the crash".

By the way, long-term members should ignore the constant stream of new arrivals predicting the sky falling in on our heads, who doubtless are either Labour trolls or old-style Tories whose advice helped the party to wonderful victories in 1997, 2001 and 2005.

[Richard North]

What should the Conservative propose?

"There are three specific things that I believe would help protect our economy and we stand ready to do whatever is necessary to help make them happen.

First, we must pass legislation to enable the Bank of England to rescue failing banks. That legislation is ready, it can be brought before Parliament on Monday and we will support it. We have been arguing with the government over one aspect: who pulls the trigger to start the process of rescuing a bank. We argued that it should be the Bank of England; the government argued that it should be the FSA. In the end what matters is getting the legislation through quickly and so I can announce today that we are prepared to drop that objection to allow rapid and safe passage of the Bill - and we can return to this issue later.

The second thing we need to do is pass further legislation to protect people’s savings and deposits and ensure quick payout. If we pass this legislation, everyone will have the comfort and security of knowing that whatever happens, their money is safe. I am calling today on the government to accelerate this legislation, to bring it forward next week and I can promise them it will have our full support.

The third thing we need to do is break the self-fulfilling cycle that is reducing banks’ ability to lend. The problem is this. When the value of financial assets falls, a new international accounting regulation called “marking to market” automatically downgrades the value of banks. They are less able to raise the money to carry on their business. That in turn causes further falls in the value of financial assets. And this is making the financial crisis worse than in previous downturns. So our regulatory authorities, together with the European regulators, need to address this difficult issue."

David Cameron, 30 September, Birmingham.

[Richard North]

Daily Telegraph leader today ... trailing in the wake of David Cameron's excellent speech:

"… changes to accounting rules can lift confidence and alleviate anxiety in the financial markets. The system known as "mark to market" - which records the value of a security to reflect its current market value rather than its book value - can force troubled institutions into insolvency and erodes investor confidence. These rules do not work when there is no market or when it is in such turmoil. The Financial Services Authority should announce that it is prepared to suspend them."

Slight problem there, but never mind. David Cameron has the answer:

"…our regulatory authorities, together with the European regulators, need to address this difficult issue."

Er ... what happened at Ecofin yesterday?

"...we stand ready to do whatever is necessary to help make them happen".

David Cameron, 30 September, Birmingham.

[Mark, Edinburgh]

Regarding the Icesave bail-out can the Conservatives please say that investors who rely on foreign government guarantees shouldn't be bailed out by the taxpayer in future? And perhaps Icesavers should at least have the interest risk premium they earned over National Savings rates deducted from any payout?

I had already been fulminating about this precedent because of the Irish guarantee. However I now see the Irish Times quotes the Irish PM in the Dail today 12.14 pm saying that legislation to put the guarantee in place will be "significantly delayed" and subject to study.

i.e THERE IS NO IRISH GUARANTEE IN PLACE AT ALL ANYWAY

[RichardJ]

Malcolm,

Allow me to quote from a site that has been predicting this crisis for years:

http://www.mises.org/story/3138

"Under these circumstances, the most appropriate policy would be to liberalize the economy at all levels (especially in the labor market) to permit the rapid reallocation of productive factors (particularly labor) to profitable sectors. Likewise, it is essential to reduce public spending and taxes, in order to increase the available income of heavily indebted economic agents who need to repay their loans as soon as possible. "

[Rugfish]

Unfortunately, it goes deeper than David Cameron's lack lustre performance in my opinion, as I could not help noticing yesterdays announcement by the IMF that central banks had to deliver coherent policies quickly to stave off global recession.

ENTER - The Tufty Club Chancellor and a mammoth meeting of minds at No10 last night, a quick check back to the IMF to see "Is that good enough", a round of "will you argue's" to which DC was no doubt invited to say PRIOR to PMQ's ( as he did ), in case he Upset the IMF and stock markets, and Bob's yer uncle Sally's yer aunt, you have a dumb opposition leader and a dumb shadow chancellor and a totally ignorant electorate, all wondering what next ?

Opposition has been CLAMPED by the real power over our economy - IMF.

Now check out the Conditionalies of the IMF upon Britain and other EU countries, for the funding they've all just had and you'll be half way there to realising that our parliament, government and opposition in this country is a complete waste of everyone's time and money.

[resident leftie]

Posted by: Malcolm Dunn | October 08, 2008 at 14:10
I think Passing Leftie you are in no position to lecture anyone about anything. These problems have emerged on your sides watch. As much as you seek to make silly party political points today you really can't blame the Conservative Party for anything.

The world crisis has emerged with Labour in power, and they are doing what they can. I hope, along all but the most partisan Tory, that these steps stabilise the banking system.

Judging by other negative comments here from Tories about Osborne and Cameron, it seems that my critique is superfluous, so I will heed your suggestion and shut up for a while.

[Northern Tory]

Cameron and Osborne are simply out of their depth with this current economic crisis. Bring in someone like Ken Clarke behind the scenes to get them up to speed...

Months ago I said only a bizarre twist of events (a war) could save glum Mr Broon and we currently have an economic war and he is starting to rise to the challenge and wave his clunking fist about...

Cameron needs to get back into the frontline of the conflict quick smart and put Mr Broon back down on his backside....at the moment Cameron and Osborne are ducking in the trenches waiting for the artillery to stop...To lead a country you need to be in amongst the action

[Conand]

A good day for Cameron. Nick Robinson is being quite fair. Brown looked very partisan.
Cameron asked two main questions: Are bankers going to be rewarded for failure (with taxpayers money)? and Will the banks strive to start lending again ? (i.e. when will the money start to go into the wider economy?)
These are the questions of the day. He couldn't ask questions which tacitly attacked the whole basis of the measures because we are signed up to those measures.
Constructive opposition.

[snegchui]

Yaaah. I thought Cameron and Osborne looked subdued on QT, but didn't really expect anything else. I thought the Labour benches were ungracious, seemed full of drooling 1983ers to me. We will see boy.
I thought Cameron was a bit misguided to bang on about the bonuses et al, it actually made him look naif and gave Brown a good comeback, even without the Cameron quote, to say case by case. If a taxpayer-subsidised institution is run and managed well by a now-sort-of-Govt-employee, well like any other Govt employee that manager will be entitled to a bonus.
Far better to have pushed on criteria and standards for new credit: ie pushing of credit cards and 6 X salary to prevent this money going again to people who will really struggle to pay even in the most lenient of circumstances so that we just don't carry on as before.

[snegchui]

Resident Leftie:
It was difficult before and is now much harder after the less than outstanding performance at PMQ for Cameron to argue points in this debate.
But why people are annoyed is that Brown and New Labour were aware of this coming and yet did nothing to ward it off or mitigate it , indeed by keeping the interest rates artificially low, they gave the illusion that 6X salary was sustainable in starting a mortgage thus fuelling an asset bubble in housing. That is now coming home to roost.
Yes, you are right, we now all have to get out of it today so squabbling and fingerpointing is not productive. But Brown has abused his position in the House today by turning at the end of QT . Sneering triumphalism of the sort seen today rarely pays dividends.

[Conand]

snegchui the Conservatives are proposing to have much tighter monitoring of debt in the economy (including government debt). We haven't really heard from the government about this yet.
Two years ago we did start pleading with people to avoid getting too much into debt This was the 'Inner Tosser' campaign, which was totally dismissed by Labour who also increased their own debt in a Prescottian two fingers approach.

[Conand]

*I meant Labour increased Government debt. The Labour party's debts increased too but that is beside the point.

[Treacle]

This occurred on Labour's watch.

They have let the public finances bloat to an unsustainable degree.

It is on their watch that the regulators allowed Northern Rock to take on massive liabilities without a sustainable business plan.

It is Brown who has strutted round proclaiming his mastery of the Economy and now claims to be the only one with the power to sort things out.

And we say nothing.

Can you imagine what Labour would be doing if this was our mess,, no? well look back to what they did do when Black Wednesday erupted.

We say nothing because we have tacitly gone along with Labours spending plans and so have no moral authority to complain now.

That's why it is pathetic.

[Treacle]

This occurred on Labour's watch.

They have let the public finances bloat to an unsustainable degree.

It is on their watch that the regulators allowed Northern Rock to take on massive liabilities without a sustainable business plan.

It is Brown who has strutted round proclaiming his mastery of the Economy and now claims to be the only one with the power to sort things out.

And we say nothing.

Can you imagine what Labour would be doing if this was our mess,, no? well look back to what they did do when Black Wednesday erupted.

We say nothing because we have tacitly gone along with Labours spending plans and so have no moral authority to complain now.

That's why it is pathetic.

[grumpy old man]

Against all evidence, in todays' PMQ's, David thought that Gordon would keep to a gentlemans' agreement and honour a by-partisan approach. Instead, DC recieved a Glasgow Kiss. Please, Mr. Cameron, repeat 10 times on your morning bike ride, "there is nothing Gordon can say which will ever allow me to trust him again." PMQ's has left me with two questions. The first is, "If the crisis was brought about by low interest rates and easy borrowing, why is the solution lower interest rates and easier borrowing?
The second is, "Why am I subscribing to the Conservative Party and do I want to work as a volunteer any more?"

[GB£.com]

The reason Mr Grumpy? - see today's Daily Mash

"THE government is to invest £500bn of your money in British banks so they can lend it back to you with interest.

The historic move is being hailed as a lifeline for the financial system as long as nobody asks too many questions.

Julian Cook, chief economist at Corbett and Barker, said: "The government will give your money to the banks so the banks can start lending you that money, probably at around 7% APR.

"Thanks to all the interest you're paying on your own money, the banks will make billions of pounds again and normality will be restored.

[snegchui]

Well I hope Conand is right. On what basis do you say this?
To an equally old grump I guess,
"The first is, "If the crisis was brought about by low interest rates and easy borrowing, why is the solution lower interest rates and easier borrowing?"
It is perhaps a nasty implication: Very little new consumer debt to be issued, but make current debt easier to service, especially for businesses meeting stock purchases and payroll through existing overdraft and rolling credit facilities. On the consumer side don't tip people with current debt and mortgages into the street.
What it means for first time buyers and their impact on the housing market is not clear to me.

[john]

What a depressing thread, dominated by Labour trolls and Simon Heffer clones.
Cameron had no choice but to be restrained and helpful. Brown, typically, makes a cheap crack, which can't be countered because Cameron had used his question quota.
Advice to Cameron:
Ignore the idiots on this site and don't ever give the sucker Brown an even break.

[Northern Tory]

john 18:39

Are you trying to tell me that Cameron and Osborne haven't looked wrong footed by this economic crisis?

People have worked bloody hard so that the Conservatives get a hearing - especially in the North of England. Now is the time when we should be setting the agenda and sealing the deal with the electorate

[Malcolm Dunn]

The vast majority of people will only know about PMQ's from the snippets they say on the news bulletins. Cameron got away scot free from the media reports today. He didn't look wrong footed by anyone. He just came across as a man who was putting his country before party.This was the only choice he realistically had.

[Very Angry of UK]

Enough!! Maybe DC did not have enough room to score points. After the debacle of yesterdays PMQ's and the laughing hyenas on the government benches gloves should come off and Team Cameron should just go now straight for the Labour juglar. Lets expose this rotten government for what it is as the only stop left now is the IMF (AGAIN!!). Brown's attitude was appalling laughing and grinning while the rest of us are scared stiff of what is going to happen next. Its an utter national disgrace.
Signed
Very angry of UK

[ChrisD]

"What a depressing thread, dominated by Labour trolls and Simon Heffer clones.
Cameron had no choice but to be restrained and helpful. Brown, typically, makes a cheap crack, which can't be countered because Cameron had used his question quota.
Advice to Cameron:
Ignore the idiots on this site and don't ever give the sucker Brown an even break"

Totally agree John!

[Patsy Sergeant]

I agree with gumpy old man's first paragraph @ 17.56 yesterday!

But even more I go along with 'John' @ 18.39 yesterday with his advice to David Cameron - NEVER give Brown a break.

I think that advice that David Cameron needs to take on board, is that even if in the present financial situation, it may seem helpful or Christian or politic, to offer to colaborate with Brown, it is a total no-goer!!!!! Regardless of what SOME voters may think, it is far more counter productive to offer to aid Brown than NOT to!! WHY??? Because as has often been said on this site before Brown has a fixed mind and he hates the Conservative party - in fact ANY party that might put him out of office, which is why, on the whole he is less vitriolic with the Lib Dems! However, above all (he appears!) to hate Mr. Cameron, and I chose the four letter word on purpose, not casually! Probably the main reason for this is that David Cameron displays so many of the characteristics that MR. Brown would love to exhibit, but NEVER will be able to. Mr. Cameron appears to have a genuine easy friendliness, which is so useful when dealing with visiting statesmen, of course one sees from the media, that he also has a steely determination - so what, he wouldn't be much of a leader without it!

[Alex]

I'm not an economist but I always thought a risk was a risk ---> Brown has called for "responsible risk-taking, but not irresponsible and excessive risk-taking". This statement makes no sense to me. Who makes the call as to how risky a risk is?!? Surely this can only be called after the event.

[snegchui]

Alex:
In the banks, economists and researchers build risk-models. These models go before the boards who are supposed to look at and understand all the assumptions taken in the building of the model, even tweak them up or down if the disagree.
Irresponsible risk-taking is either ignorance (can't explain /don't understand the model) but sign it off anyway, or carelessness - where do I sign? And in some cases it is fraudelent: I know that model can only work for 6 months but bonusses are paid in 5 and I will be gone when it collapses.
The US hearings on AIG are revealing little gems like
"But lawmakers were incredulous. "It appears to me that he (Cassano) single-handedly brought AIG to its knees and is the reason taxpayers had to step in (blocked auditing and valuation of financial instruments that went sour) .... but you still retain him on £1 million PER MONTH retainer. Why?" (And I would add What is his kickback to you?" But politeness rules)