Tory leadership senses that the corner has been turned on 'Yachtgate'

Despite the very difficult last 48 hours the mood at a mass gathering of MPs and candidates last night for a big dinner was said to be good.  The Daily Mail and Sun have both swung into action today - The Mail rightly suggesting that the potential scandal is really Peter Mandelson's links with Oleg Deripaska and The Sun complaining about the BBC's biased coverage.

Daily Mail leader: "[The George Osborne affair] is no cash-for-peerages or Formula 1 scandal. There is no suggestion that Mr Osborne actually did anything remotely illegal. The fact is neither he nor the Tory Party accepted a penny from Mr Deripaska. Indeed, even if he had asked for a donation - which he hotly denies - that would not have been against the law... If there is to be an inquiry, it should be into the far more serious question of whether Peter Mandelson allowed his friendship with Mr Deripaska to influence EU policy on aluminium tariffs?  After all, we know that a decision taken when Lord Mandelson was EU Trade Commissioner benefited Mr Deripaska's companies to the tune of £50million a year."

The Sun Says: "The integrity of the BBC is coming under question for the way it has treated the case of the Russian billionaire and his British contacts. Hundreds of viewers are complaining of unbalanced reporting — and with good reason. According to its own internal memo, hundreds of listeners accused the Corporation of bias against the Tories — pointing out that the party received NO cash at all.  And it’s strange that the BBC only went into overdrive on the story AFTER George Osborne’s name was linked to oligarch Oleg Deripaska. When just Labour’s Peter Mandelson was involved it boasts it resisted making much of any allegations. Strange, that. And reason enough for their own enquiry into left-wing bias."

Comments

[Martin Coxall]

So, we can take it as read that over the last couple of days the BBC has decided to declare war on the Tories.

The question is, why?

Now, some here may argue that it’s the duty of all self respecting free thinking individuals to rally against the bigotry and intolerance of us evil Tories.

Yet, one wonders if this is a game the BBC truly want to be playing.

What’s interesting is the way that, by hysterically running with the Deripaska yacht, against the advice of cooler heads of folks like Paxman, they’ve scored a massive own goal by turning the narrative from one of Same Old Tories to one about the BBC’s unbalanced behaviour.

Sometimes I think the BBC is getting suicidal.

As for us? Well, we should bide our time. Revenge is a dish best served cold.

[David Belchamber]

Would it not be pertinent to enquire how the investigation into the allegedly illegal contributions from David Abrahams to the Labour party are going?

[Bexie]

Time to close down the BBC. No reference for their "journalists" either

[Dominic]

If the Conservative Party do win the next election they need to break the BBC down to being a balanced organisation. It is so obvious on every political programme the targeting of the Conservative party ,many times you would think they still are in power. A newly elected Conservative Government should dismantle in its entirety the political and news outlets in their present form. Lord Pearson some time ago monitored this left wing outfit and found them to be extremely biased with regards to politics.
It was refreshing to witness on Newsnight last night how Lord Heseltine so easily dealt with the Osborne saga and Paxman just gave up as he was dealing with somebody far to clever to make his points stick.
Do the clever thing appoint Ken Clarke as Shadow Chancellor as some body of his experience in the next few years would be vital for the party and the Country and of course he presided over Britain getting out of the last recession after years of clearing up Labours mess and then handed over Labour an economy to mess up all over again.

[Iain]

"Tory leadership senses that the corner has been turned on 'Yachtgate'"

This became apparent yesterday morning as I posted about the publics response on Victoria Derbyshire's 5 live program, where the BBC found that' rather than putting Osborne in the frame, they and Mandelson were the ones coming in for criticism.

As to Martin Coxall's question why, well we had the revelation a couple of weeks ago where the BBC management put out an edict to go easy on Gordon Brown. Clearly this was seen as a green light by BBC staff to reassert their political prejudices, which they have done with gusto, resorting back to 1997 when they were the mouth-piece of new Labour.

[Richard Moores.]

I agree that perhaps the focus should now turn to Mandleson's involvement in this matter. However,
George Osbourn does not come out of this smelling of roses. What ever possesed him to take such a risk with his and the Party's reputation.

[watcher]

I don't think the corner has been turned.

There have to be worries that there is a sense of arrogance in the tope echelons of the Tories right now.

There are huge lessons to be learned from this sage regarding image, judgment, perception and communication.

I agree with those saying the funding scandal is a red herring here but that isn't the real engine which has kept this running.

Even d'Ancona wrote a good piece on this yesterday.

[Old Hack]

Nevertheless, let us hope that Mr Osborne has learned a lesson from all of this. On top of some poor performance in the economic crisis, this really was the cherry on the cake.

The wider concern about the Cameroons remains however. They are almost a party within a party, fearful of threats to their positions, arrogant in their sense of destiny, yet complacent about that destiny. Surprisingly class or background conscious. Insular in many ways.

Journalists see a narrative about the Cameroons. That is why the media, not just the BBC has leapt upon this story with such gusto. We need to change that narrative.

So are the likes of Mr Osborne and Mr Cameron sufficiently self aware to accept that their own brand is becoming contaminated?

[Tony Makara]

The whole case, and trial by television against Mr Osborne, is being conducted by pure supposition. Had this been in a court of law the whole case would have been deemed inadmissible. The media have picked up the ball and have run with it, however there is no tryline in sight.

[Martin Coxall]

The error of judgment here was definitely Osborne's. He should not be smarming around on questionable billionaires' yacht, and dallying with slime like Mandelson, Deripaska and Rothschild in the first place. Lord Tebbit was absolutely right: if you lay down with dogs, you're gonna get fleas.

[David_at_Home]

Quite obviously George Osborne did nothing illegal since to talk about the possibility of arranging a donation and then rejecting it cannot be a crime, even in New Labour’s Britain.

BUT both Osborne and Mandelson have been found mixing with the morally dubious international super rich. I don't want people who keep such company as ministers of the Crown. Do you?

[Alan S]

I won't forgive the BBC for having Peston and Robinson decide against George Osborne from the beginning. That the BBC put both of them on the most valuable real estate in the British media (810AM on the Today programme) to attack the Tories was terrible journalism.

[liz kemp]

As I wrote yesterday the "Osbourne scandal" was carefully timed to coincide with PMQ to put pressure on David Cameron and protect Gordon Brown. The BBC propoganda machine dutifully did its total coverage and it worked. Job done! Today no mention. Now we wait for the next bombshell of dirty tricks (remarkably similar to those in 1997)to be implemented by the BBC. And we are paying for it!!

[GB£.com]

None of this would have occurred if Osborne hadn't sought to score a cheap political point by blabbing about Mandelson.

Lesson to be learned for Osborne; stop playing political games and focus on the rather more pressing issue of fixing the economy.

[Anthony Scholefield]

Surely the chief misbehaviour of OSBORNE was to visit the unknown Russian's yacht FOUR times. Once may have been happenstance etc etc

[Norm Brainer]

Time to close down the BBC.

It's stupid comments like this that give the BBC it's bias.
As long as the BBC are nice to labour, their jobs are safe - if they question them then the journaists are sacked.
If conservatives come in, the BBC is also safe but with a few loud voices who say it should be stripped back and/or disbanded or brought in-house to the government - doesn't encourage them to be nice, does it?
That said, they did go too far on this one, it wasn't news but they ran it for days, yet hardly mention the dodgy donations/influencing that's been going on in labour with blair/brown/mandleson etc.

[Dorian Englandism]

There is no BBC bias, dear Aunty merely reflects the consensus that all of us would do well to sign up to.

Boris has seen the light and now exudes the the righteous glow of properly configured thinking. Climate change is man made and we must all put corks up our exhausts and retreat to the age of turnips and threshing machines. All those earnest young things at City Hall tell him so, so it must be so.

And that nice shiny-toothed American chap must win as a victory for multi-cultural glass ceiling busting but it's not about race and it's certainly not about nasty Satan Palin the She-Devil that Mandy Tossvig and Marcus Prigstocke doth rail against in the cause of properly configured 'comedy'.

Obama Good. Palin Bad. Four legs good two legs bad.

Labour Good. Tory Bad.

No matter how hard our Conservative betters try to emulate the green-eyed rictus grin of moral invincibility we will never break through our own variety of glass ceiling:

Insitutionalised hatred. The self-replicating Mandelclones of the BBC hate us. We are Bush, we made Bliar, we are war, we are Israel, we are Thatch, we are unrestrained capitalism. We are the enemy.

The softly, softly, game isn't paying off guys. Time to reveal what lies beneath the velvet glove.

And the posterior of the BBC presents a perfect target.

[resident leftie]

Every single media outlet lead on this story. It's not just the BBC. You are absolutely obsessed with so-called BBC bias, and the effect of this campaign will be poisonous if you get into power.

The root of the matter is - did he or Feldman solicit a donation? If either of them did, that is illegal.

The Guardian said:

"Nat Rothschild, the merchant banker who accused shadow chancellor George Osborne of soliciting a £50,000 donation from Russian oligarch Oleg Deripaska, has warned he will destroy Osborne if the Tories continue to question his account of the discussions that took place at his villa on Corfu."

So, either Rothschild is lying, in which case Osborne is just guilty of an appalling error of judgement, or Osborne is lying, in which case he (or Feldman) could be in breach of the law.

Finally, there is this very important point. If it "would not be appropriate" for Osborne and Feldman to accept a donation from Deripaska (as they said) channeled through a British company, why is it appropriate to accept the money through that channel from Ashcroft?

Just to remind you, from the Guardian:

"William Hague, wrote to Downing Street asking for a change of heart because Ashcroft intended to be resident in Britain "in order properly to fulfil his responsibilities in the House of Lords". Hague added: "This decision will cost him (and benefit the Treasury) tens of millions a year in tax, yet he considers it worthwhile." However, in 2004, five years later, Ashcroft's "location of main residence" was declared in the Lords expenses register to be still in Belize."

[johnC]

'Surely the chief misbehaviour of OSBORNE was to visit the unknown Russian's yacht FOUR times'

It's Frances and the children who I feel sorry for. All they wanted was a nice beach holiday in Corfu, with perhaps the occasional trip to a local historical tourist site, and George spends the whole time networking, plotting and discussing world politics. Next time can I suggest Frances takes a length of strong rope to tie George down to his sunlounger.

[London Tory]

Whatever our reservations about Osborne, the BBC News channel swung it for me yesterday.

Constantly running the banner headline:

"TORIES UNDER PRESSURE"

they interviewed in succession, over the space of the day, the following neutral observers-

John Mann MP [Labour]
Michael White [The Guardian]
Denis MacShane MP [Labour]
Norman Baker MP [Lib Dem]

Each was enticed with difficult questions such as; "should Osborne resign ?"

They added to this err ..."pressure" by constantly re showing a clip from PMQs in which Dennis Skinner MP [err...Labour] read out a question on Osborne from the Labour Whips office.

Of a Conservative view, or spokesman, throughout this, there was none.

The good news for us is that the BBC will be devoting all of its efforts over the next 2 weeks towards getting its poster boy Obama elected in the US.

The other good news for us is that we have long memories, and as with Sir Ian Blair, Mark Thompson and his cronies can expect a Siberian winter when we win in 2010.

[Kevin Davis]

I am afraid the quality of the new crop of BBC reporters is pretty dreadful. I am not shooting the messenger when I say that Peston has almost done as much to damage the economy as the bankers he was reporting on. The irony is that he has probably terminally damaged the one thing he clearly supports - the Labour party. You should read the comments on his blog about him an his part in the Deripaska affair.

[Peter]

COMMENT OVERWRITTEN

[David_at_Home]

Unless there is a lot more to come out, Resident Leftie, it is very difficult to see how Mr Osborne could be in breach of the law. Apparently a donation was discussed, found to be against the rules and rejected so, even though you lefties are all in favour of criminalising "incorrect thoughts", it seems unlikely Osborne could be convicted of anything. Incidentally, it seems that it is not against the rules for political parties to receive donations from British registered companies with foreign shareholders. If this were so, I think all three main parties would be in the poo.

Anyway, back to Osborne. The sum total of his experience is St Paul’s school, Oxford and working for the Tory party. There is nothing wrong with any of these but he has never done anything else and so, based on his life experience, would seem to be unsuitable for high office. The same was true of Tony Blair and look at the mess he left behind!

On the basis of the company they keep, I do think we should trust to government of our country to either Mr Osborne or Mr Mandelson.

[Dorian Englandism]

Hello Resident Leftie,

Your source is the Grauniad? To my certain knowledge there are only two people in England who read the Guardian. One is a female erstwhile hippy in Compton Magna who smells of carpeted lavatories and randomly shouts 'Yurt!' whilst sitting on her porch absorbed in Toynbee's blatherings.

The other one works for the BBC.

[onemarcus]

Tim M, I think the anti-semetic comments above should be withdrawn. (No I'm not Jewish).

All of this has a total and utter whiff of Mandelson, who is looking more and more like the child catcher in chitty-chitty bang bang, (just add the nose and the hat) he's pretty corrupt and evil already.

As I said before we need to go on the attack ask about Menadelson and the £50Million tax concession given to his Russian friend, the fact that he resigned twice, once for mortgage fraud the second time for passport fraud, charges that lesser mortals would have been prosecuted for. And the Eccelston affair giving a £1m donation in return for a changee in Government policy.

When a donnatioon that wasn't recived is put against these misdemenors not really very much to worry about.

[onemarcus]

Peters comments at 10.57 I meant.

[Tony Makara]

Peter, conspiracy theories are as bad as ideology and religious fundamentalism. I think it was Sir Oswald Mosley, no less, who said the idea of secret conspiracy theories was madness, particularly in a world full of women!

[resident leftie]

Posted by: Dorian Englandism | October 23, 2008 at 11:15

Your source is the Grauniad? To my certain knowledge there are only two people in England who read the Guardian. One is a female erstwhile hippy in Compton Magna who smells of carpeted lavatories and randomly shouts 'Yurt!' whilst sitting on her porch absorbed in Toynbee's blatherings.

Which bit of the report is factually incorrect?

Posted by: David_at_Home | October 23, 2008 at 11:03

Unless there is a lot more to come out, Resident Leftie, it is very difficult to see how Mr Osborne could be in breach of the law. Apparently a donation was discussed...

The root of the matter is - did he or Feldman solicit a donation? If either of them did, that is illegal. That has yet to be established.

[London Tory]

There is no possible justification for the continuation of the licence fee. David Cameron's government must end it, and make the BBC's talented, diverse and multi cultural workforce float it's many talents on the open market.

L.O.L

[Cleethorpes Rock]

Every time this is mentioned by a journalist, the stock Tory response should be:

"He didn't ask for a donation and he didn't get one. Just go and ask Peter Mandleson, as he was there too."

[Iain]

"Would it not be pertinent to enquire how the investigation into the allegedly illegal contributions from David Abrahams to the Labour party are going?"

David Belchamber , that was my question the other day. Its a year since Peter Watt the Labour General Secretary had to resign for taking illegal donations, yet as far as I am aware the CPS hasn't laid any charges.

The CPS isn't being subject to the Labour Government pressure to let the matter drop are they?

[ACT]

Well we've established that George lied - go ask a Times Hack what his original cliams were about 'Yachtgate'! - then brazenly threatened legal action to back those lies up. And now, after being told by Rothschild and three other people that, 'you're still lying', lying George very wisely renounces recourse to the courts. A delightful fellow to have as a shadow chancellor, and a *weightly* addition to any future government. Or is there even one demented 'Roon who will care to have a go at explaining why, on the issue at stake (did Osborne attempt to cadge lolly out of an impermissable donor?), Osborne won't sue to defend his reputation after fully four people have contradicted him?

Osborne is a liability, who in some ways should be fractionally grateful to have got caught up in this storm, since it has, if nothing else, distracted us all from his utter inability to lay a finger on the government at least partially responsible for the worst economic crisis of your lifetime. Way to go George. And no wonder you're almost already back to being cocky in your chit-chat with hacks. No lessons to learn here for Gid the fib.

And the other great lesson? If you're a mate of Dave's, you're Okay. Well, okay in the sense that dave will hide from view until the storm hopefulyl blows over, and if you're still standing, such a tender embrace.

[resident leftie]

The Times has "Tory grassroots: 'George Osborne should resign'"

The Telegraph leads with it, as does the Mail, which has a lovely Bullingdon photo to accompany it.

And you miss the most important part of the Mail leader:

"And yes, the affair casts the gravest doubts on Mr Osborne's judgment - and on his fitness for office."

Meanwhile, the BBC don't even have it on their front page.

[Cleethorpes Rock]

Can't we just replace Fib-eon over Christmas, when no-one's watching?

[Curly]

I still see no signs of balance at the BBC this morning.

Mandelson seems to have buried his own bad news.

[Less than two more years]

"Every single media outlet lead on this story. It's not just the BBC."- Resident-leftie

Completely untrue. Sky didn't- indeed it ran it about 4th item leading instead with the murder of a teenager, if I recall correctly. Shows which broadcaster has the right priorities- real news vs "anything to save labour" diversions.

Hezza did a fanstic solid performance on newsnight. If only we had similar gravitas from the current crop.

[Dorian Broadsheet]

Hello Resident Leftie,

If, as a Resident Tory, I posted a missive at Comment is Free sourcing my factual justificatering from the Daily Mail there would be an apoplexy of Leftie indignation and derision with furious references to Mein Kampf.

Think of the Grauniad as Das Kapital and you’ll get the drift.

[john parkes]

ACT @ 11.51
"We`ve established that George lied....." and it seems that the testimonies of Rothschild and three others who are said to be the unimpeachable, impartial witnesses on whom this statement is based. Oh really?
It is said that Rothschild pere funds a Mandelson think tank to the tune of £250,000. I wonder if that might be relevant.
It is interesting to read above the few posts by subscribers who seem determined to do Labour`s work for them. Perhaps it`s worth recalling the advice I was once given in a different context,
"When you take office you will make friends and enemies. Remember the enemies will be genuine....."
The parliamentary "authorities", presumably those to whom Brown referred, have already said that Osborne has no case to answer and they do not propose to investigate this matter. Perhaps it`s time that the "holier than who?" brigade gave it a rest and latched on to some other cause.

[R.Baker.]

I see that ukip have reported that some of our people are already bailing out and the entire Harrow Road Ward has moved over to them now.
A damned mess is what this is.

[Notaleftie]

Come on everybody,isn't there a pattern develloping ....Conway,Spellman,Chichester, if the party cannot keep its nose clean in opposition,what chance when holding the levers of power and its corresponding distractions

[ACT]

@ John Parkes

'it seems that the testimonies of Rothschild and three others who are said to be the unimpeachable, impartial witnesses on whom this statement is based. Oh really?'
All the better for Gib the Fib then. For if notwithstanding the numerical weight of witnesses directly contradicting his version of events, they all happen, each and equally, to be scunners, then won't George have a field-day in court? Oh wait, he's said he won't go near a court, despite having, C/O the fab four, been told in every Tory newspaper, 'you're lying, and we all know you're lying'. Funny that.

'It is said that Rothschild pere funds a Mandelson think tank to the tune of £250,000. I wonder if that might be relevant'.
About as relevant as Rothschild mere having bunged Gid the Fib's private office 190K wouldn't you say?

I'm not exactly sure why anyone who wishes the Tory Party well thinks it's a good thing if Osborne's resignation doesn't come this week. For come it will, and better now than later.

[Norm Brainer]

ACT, it sounds like you are foaming at the mouth as you type.

I'm not sure why anyone who supports the party, even those that don't like Osbourne, would want him to go with week.
For him to go now will be a win for mandleson and the grimey politics of labour with their underhand tricks (like the RRU) who see him as their biggest threat.
As it doesn't seem he has done anything anywhere near wrong then conservatives should stand behind him - which I think they are, apart from the few closet lefties that are jelous because he has money who segregate people based on their upbringing.

[john parkes]

ACT @ 12.55
Rather conveniently you have chosen to ignore the last paragraph in my post at 12.38. If you think that this is a resigning matter but the "authorities" won`t even look at it, it really makes me wonder what you are at. Apart from anything else, this harping on in such a sanctimonious way is becoming rather a bore. Do give it a rest, old cock

[john parkes]

ACT @ 12.55
Rather conveniently you seem to have ignored my last paragraph in the post at 12.38. If the Parliamentary "authorities" say there is no case to answer and won`t even look at investigating any further, what are you at? This harping on in such a sanctimonious way is really becoming rather a bore and perhaps you should go and grind your axe in a different cause

[resident leftie]

Posted by: Dorian Broadsheet | October 23, 2008 at 12:38

If, as a Resident Tory, I posted a missive at Comment is Free sourcing my factual justificatering from the Daily Mail there would be an apoplexy of Leftie indignation and derision with furious references to Mein Kampf.

Think of the Grauniad as Das Kapital and you’ll get the drift.

I understand your scepticism. Reading the Daily Mail is like have a batty racist curtain-twitching and ill-informed great aunt gnawing your ear off about crime, bloody immigrants and how women should stay at home with their children.

The same facts are present in the Times, Telegraph however, if that makes them more palatable to you.

I do hope you go to Comment is Free and try this, though. My fellow readers can be a little po-faced, and this would amuse me.

[resident leftie]

Posted by: Dorian Broadsheet | October 23, 2008 at 12:38

If, as a Resident Tory, I posted a missive at Comment is Free sourcing my factual justificatering from the Daily Mail there would be an apoplexy of Leftie indignation and derision with furious references to Mein Kampf.

Think of the Grauniad as Das Kapital and you’ll get the drift.

I understand your scepticism. Reading the Daily Mail is like have a batty racist curtain-twitching and ill-informed great aunt gnawing your ear off about crime, bloody immigrants and how women should stay at home with their children.

The same facts are present in the Times, Telegraph however, if that makes them more palatable to you.

I do hope you go to Comment is Free and try this, though. My fellow readers can be a little po-faced, and this would amuse me.

[resident leftie]

Posted by: Dorian Broadsheet | October 23, 2008 at 12:38

If, as a Resident Tory, I posted a missive at Comment is Free sourcing my factual justificatering from the Daily Mail there would be an apoplexy of Leftie indignation and derision with furious references to Mein Kampf.

Think of the Grauniad as Das Kapital and you’ll get the drift.

I understand your scepticism. Reading the Daily Mail is like have a batty racist curtain-twitching and ill-informed great aunt gnawing your ear off about crime, bloody immigrants and how women should stay at home with their children.

The same facts are present in the Times, Telegraph however, if that makes them more palatable to you.

I do hope you go to Comment is Free and try this, though. My fellow readers can be a little po-faced, and this would amuse me.

[resident leftie]

Posted by: Dorian Broadsheet | October 23, 2008 at 12:38

If, as a Resident Tory, I posted a missive at Comment is Free sourcing my factual justificatering from the Daily Mail there would be an apoplexy of Leftie indignation and derision with furious references to Mein Kampf.

Think of the Grauniad as Das Kapital and you’ll get the drift.

I understand your scepticism. Reading the Daily Mail is like have a batty racist curtain-twitching and ill-informed great aunt gnawing your ear off about crime, bloody immigrants and how women should stay at home with their children.

The same facts are present in the Times, Telegraph however, if that makes them more palatable to you.

I do hope you go to Comment is Free and try this, though. My fellow readers can be a little po-faced, and this would amuse me.

[john parkes]

Sorry about the repeat. It`s not for the sake of emphasis but when I tried to post the original a message came up to say it was lost and so I had to try and remember what sort of abuse I was trying to hurl at poor old ACT. as it turns out I was being even more garrulous than usual.

[Norm Brainer]

hmm... comments aren't posting and some are double posting.. might aswell repost to see if mine doubles up....

ACT, it sounds like you are foaming at the mouth as you type.

I'm not sure why anyone who supports the party, even those that don't like Osbourne, would want him to go with week.
For him to go now will be a win for mandleson and the grimey politics of labour with their underhand tricks (like the RRU) who see him as their biggest threat.
As it doesn't seem he has done anything anywhere near wrong then conservatives should stand behind him - which I think they are, apart from the few closet lefties that are jelous because he has money who segregate people based on their upbringing.

[ACT]

John, if it's any comfort to you, it's hardly going to be my 'harping on' about Osborne that proves to be so toxic, indeed, fatal for his short-term political ambitions. But then here again we have yet more proof of his arrogance and political ineptitude: for the sooner he goes, the sooner he'll get back in.

[GB£.com]

"Your source is the Grauniad? To my certain knowledge there are only two people in England who read the Guardian."

Much as it pains me to say, but the Guardian seems to be rapidly becoming an essential Cameroon paper. Aren't Mr Archer and Mr Hincliffe Guardian readers too?

[ACT]

John, if it's any comfort to you, it's hardly going to be my 'harping on' about Osborne that proves to be so toxic, indeed, fatal for his short-term political ambitions. But then here again we have yet more proof of his arrogance and political ineptitude: for the sooner he goes, the sooner he'll get back in. But if he stays in, all he's going to do is keep on giving to Labour Party. I'm truly at a loss to understand why any Tory would want that.

[ACT]

John, if it's any comfort to you, it's hardly going to be my 'harping on' about Osborne that proves to be so toxic, indeed, fatal for his short-term political ambitions. But then here again we have yet more proof of his arrogance and political ineptitude: for the sooner he goes, the sooner he'll get back in. But if he stays in, all he's going to do is keep on giving to Labour Party. I'm truly at a loss to understand why any Tory would want that.

[ACT]

John, if it's any comfort to you, it's hardly going to be my 'harping on' about Osborne that proves to be so toxic, indeed, fatal for his short-term political ambitions. But then here again we have yet more proof of his arrogance and political ineptitude: for the sooner he goes, the sooner he'll get back in. But if he stays in, all he's going to do is keep on giving to Labour Party. I'm truly at a loss to understand why any Tory would want that.

[GB£.com]

With the eerily similar revelations today that the Tories rejected a donation from an impermissible donor just to then allow her to donate the identical sum through a UK company, this issue is far from over, particularly as the Tories have still not provided any evidence to backup their story that the donation was rejected.

In fact, it was reported in the Telegraph today that the offer was still very much live when the story broke.

So why have the Tories still not provided something to back up their claim that the donation was rejected? An email, a letter, details of a phone call?

Why provide such a lengthy 'statement of events' but nothing to prove the donation was rejected, that would close this issue once and for all?

[Saltmaker]

Which bit of the report is factually incorrect?

Resident leftie, I don't take The Guardian so I can't tell you which of its bits are incorrect. What I can say is that your statement:

The root of the matter is - did he or Feldman solicit a donation? If either of them did, that is illegal.

is wrong. The Electoral Commision said yesterday "soliciting a donation is not an offence" (in response to Brown's call for an investigation).

[Saltmaker]

Which bit of the report is factually incorrect?

Resident leftie, I don't take The Guardian so I can't tell you which of its bits are incorrect. What I can say is that your statement:

The root of the matter is - did he or Feldman solicit a donation? If either of them did, that is illegal.

is wrong. The Electoral Commision said yesterday "soliciting a donation is not an offence" (in response to Brown's call for an investigation).

.

[Saltmaker]

Which bit of the report is factually incorrect?

Resident leftie, I don't take The Guardian so I can't tell you which of its bits are incorrect. What I can say is that your statement:

The root of the matter is - did he or Feldman solicit a donation? If either of them did, that is illegal.

is wrong. The Electoral Commision said yesterday "soliciting a donation is not an offence" (in response to Brown's call for an investigation).

[Saltmaker]

Which bit of the report is factually incorrect?

Resident leftie, I don't take The Guardian so I can't tell you which of its bits are incorrect. What I can say is that your statement:

The root of the matter is - did he or Feldman solicit a donation? If either of them did, that is illegal.

is wrong. The Electoral Commision said yesterday "soliciting a donation is not an offence" (in response to Brown's call for an investigation).

[Mark Williams]

Resident Leftie said
"The root of the matter is - did he or Feldman solicit a donation? If either of them did, that is illegal."

As a factual matter there is nothing illegal about soliciting a donation from an impermissible donor. The offence is to accept the donation and if accepted, to not return the donation within 30 days after consulting on whether the donation is permissible. So you aren't even close.

There is also the possibility for Deripaska to make a donation from his UK trading company, Leyland Daf Vehicles. Provided the company makes the donation from its own account then the donation would be perfectly legal. Deripaska could even lend monney to the company or fund it with extra capital in order to make the donation (legally no different than you or me paying for a donation with a credit card - the cash comes from the bank but it is our cost and we money to the bank).

So all in all, you are way off.

I note that McShane has not been calling for Mandelson's new pal Rothschild to be investigated, although by his own admission he appears to have instigated the whole arrangement and has said theta he made the introduction for the purposes of procuring a donation. Funny that.

[Mark Williams]

Resident Leftie said
"The root of the matter is - did he or Feldman solicit a donation? If either of them did, that is illegal."

As a factual matter there is nothing illegal about soliciting a donation from an impermissible donor. The offence is to accept the donation and if accepted, to not return the donation within 30 days after consulting on whether the donation is permissible. So you aren't even close.

There is also the possibility for Deripaska to make a donation from his UK trading company, Leyland Daf Vehicles. Provided the company makes the donation from its own account then the donation would be perfectly legal. Deripaska could even lend monney to the company or fund it with extra capital in order to make the donation (legally no different than you or me paying for a donation with a credit card - the cash comes from the bank but it is our cost and we money to the bank).

So all in all, you are way off.

I note that McShane has not been calling for Mandelson's new pal Rothschild to be investigated, although by his own admission he appears to have instigated the whole arrangement and has said theta he made the introduction for the purposes of procuring a donation. Funny that.

[Iain]

I see the BBC is still trying to keep the story alive, now they are asking questions on World at One if Osborne declared his stay at Rothschild’s villa in the members interests. Of course having raised this issue they then have to ask some questions about all the hospitality Mandelson has been accepting, though questions about Mandelson would never have been raised by the BBC if they hadn't first tried to have a go at a Tory.

[Iain]

I see the BBC is still trying to keep the story alive, now they are asking questions on World at One if Osborne declared his stay at Rothschild’s villa in the members interests. Of course having raised this issue they then have to ask some questions about all the hospitality Mandelson has been accepting, though questions about Mandelson would never have been raised by the BBC if they hadn't first tried to have a go at a Tory.

[London Tory]

As Andrew Marr [Mr Jackie Ashley, son in law of Labour peer Lord Ashley], once famously declared, the BBC does not pretend to be impartial. He was BBC Political Editor at the time. In his words, it is staffed by young, multi racial and 'socially diverse' people [L.O.L] who's natural instinct is left-of-centre. Thats fine, but why should we pay for them ?

Incidentally, BBC News 24 has now moved on to a rolling item about Sarah Palin's clothing bill, full of the usual snide insinuations.

Can anyone imagine the BBC running a similar piece on Joe Biden ? But then again, Biden is an IRISH- American, so he ticks a few boxes at the BBC.

[London Tory]

As Andrew Marr [Mr Jackie Ashley, son in law of Labour peer Lord Ashley], once famously declared, the BBC does not pretend to be impartial. He was BBC Political Editor at the time. In his words, it is staffed by young, multi racial and 'socially diverse' people [L.O.L] who's natural instinct is left-of-centre. Thats fine, but why should we pay for them ?

Incidentally, BBC News 24 has now moved on to a rolling item about Sarah Palin's clothing bill, full of the usual snide insinuations.

Can anyone imagine the BBC running a similar piece on Joe Biden ? But then again, Biden is an IRISH- American, so he ticks a few boxes at the BBC.

[Ian]

Clever chap Murdoch isn't he - leads the charge from The Times, takes the BBC with him, and then turns round and knifes teh BBC via the Sun. Cui bono?

[Dorian Livingstone I Presume]

Yo Resident Leftie. I was a resident righty at CiF for yonks seeing it as necessary missionary work and would like to think that my colleagues and I did some good. Particularly in terms of emotional counseling for those that had thought that Our Tony was a Labour spod rather than a re-tread Tory with the heart of Beelzebub.

I gave up after the Guardian’s 24/7 Livingstone is a Living God campaign countered by our BJ for the Mayor successful counter-strike. Disappointingly, Boris seems to have since gone native.

[Dorian Livingstone I Presume]

Yo Resident Leftie. I was a resident righty at CiF for yonks seeing it as necessary missionary work and would like to think that my colleagues and I did some good. Particularly in terms of emotional counseling for those that had thought that Our Tony was a Labour spod rather than a re-tread Tory with the heart of Beelzebub.

I gave up after the Guardian’s 24/7 Livingstone is a Living God campaign countered by our BJ for the Mayor successful counter-strike. Disappointingly, Boris seems to have since gone native.

[Patricia]

We would not be having this debate now if George Osborne had not blabbed about Mandelson, presumably to score a political point.

This scandal does however tell us a lot about George Osborne and it does not improve his image, to put it mildly!

He comes out of this very badly

[Justin Hinchcliffe]

For what it's worth, I think that George Osborne did LACK judgement. That said, it's not a resigning matter as he didn't break any rules - and I say that as someone who does not care for him too much. Tebbit was right in his laying with dogs remark.

The way the BEEB is obsessing with this 'story' is disgusting. I have made a complaint and urge others to do so.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/complaints/

[Justin Hinchcliffe]

For what it's worth, I think that George Osborne did LACK judgement. That said, it's not a resigning matter - and I say that as someone who does not care for him too much. Tebbit was right.

The way the BEEB is obsessing with this 'story' is disgusting. I have made a complaint and urge others to do so.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/complaints/

[Justin Hinchcliffe]

For what it's worth, I think that George Osborne did LACK judgement. That said, it's not a resigning matter - and I say that as someone who does not care for him too much. Tebbit was right.

The way the BEEB is obsessing with this 'story' is disgusting. I have made a complaint and urge others to do so.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/complaints/

[Justin Hinchcliffe]

For what it's worth, I think that George Osborne did LACK judgement. That said, it's not a resigning matter - and I say that as someone who does not care for him too much. Tebbit was right.

The way the BEEB is obsessing with this 'story' is disgusting. I have made a complaint and urge others to do so.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/complaints/

[Patricia]

We would not be having this debate now if George Osborne had not blabbed about Mandelson to the press, presumably to score a political point.

This scandal does however tell us a lot about George Osborne and it does not enhance his image, to put it mildly!

He comes out of his very badly.

[resident leftie]

Posted by: Saltmaker | October 23, 2008 at 13:43
Resident leftie, I don't take The Guardian so I can't tell you which of its bits are incorrect. What I can say is that your statement:

The root of the matter is - did he or Feldman solicit a donation? If either of them did, that is illegal.

is wrong. The Electoral Commision said yesterday "soliciting a donation is not an offence" (in response to Brown's call for an investigation).

The law states that that a person commits an offence if he does 'any act in furtherance of any arrangement which is likely to facilitate' donations from an impermissible donor.'

[resident leftie]

Posted by: Dorian Livingstone I Presume | October 23, 2008 at 14:35

Yo Resident Leftie. I was a resident righty at CiF for yonks seeing it as necessary missionary work and would like to think that my colleagues and I did some good. Particularly in terms of emotional counseling for those that had thought that Our Tony was a Labour spod rather than a re-tread Tory with the heart of Beelzebub.

Aah! Different gods, similar mission. I have a tougher gig than you at the moment, though. Still, I try.

[ACT]

It should also, perhaps, be pointed out that the Electoral Commission neither determines what is or is not an 'offence', still less is it the relevant prosecuting authority. But then George is already being smug again with hacks. So everything's okay, isn't it?

[~Ross]

'Less than two more years' is wrong -- the item was top story on Sky News throughout the whole afternoon and early evening of Wednesday. It was also top story on ITV News and Channel 4 News, and has been frontpage on the Mail, Telegraph and other right-leaning outlets. To claim this is entirely the BBC is to misrepresent the facts.

[Malcolm Dunn]

Can't be bothered to respond to the comments of the likes of ACT or Resident Leftie both seem to have a very warped sense of perspective and come on this board purely to get a rise out of other posters.
However I'm very disappointed with Osborne. We are better than them.We have to show that every day. We expect Mandelson to lie and behave corruptly that's what he's like. We expect and should get 1st class behaviour from our own side at all times.

[ACT]

Malcolm! George is a charming man. The evidence mounts: http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2008/oct/23/georgeosborne-corfu

[Opinicus]

I think what we're missing here is the main story.
Why did Rothschild, apparently a longstanding friend of Osborne, turn on him so violently? Was it simply an indiscretion from a private party? Its a bit disproportionate.
Is this simply Voldemort's revenge. Well he's obviously a much slicker operator than Osborne. Makes Osborne look really amateur.

Rothschild is fund manager for Deripenska, effectively a wholly owned subsidary of the great man. What except profit explains abandoning the ties of 15yrs friendship.
Why do "friends of Rothschild" warn Osborne to drop the whole matter or be destroyed.
What does Deripenska want?

To hide and pass over the allegations that Mandelson bunged him £50m.

Which makes that story well worth further investigation.

[John Moss]

I read the Guardian - know thine enemy!

[C List and Proud]

Rothschild works for Deripaska who is big in aluminium. Mandelson cuts aluminium tariffs, (good man, we don't like tariffs), personally benefitting Deripaska by $50m. (Before or after meeting with or lobbying from Rothschild or Deripaska? Interesting question, not yet asked by BBC I note.)

Mandleson calls in favour, knowing Rothschild works for Deripaska and is close to Osborne. Hints dropped of potential large donation from Leyland Daf - leagl if made from taxed UK profits, irrespective of company ownership. Osborne invites Feldman along to chat through - very wise, having a witness. Rothschild dangles £50k.

Osborne furious to be insulted by being asked to be involved with a donation of such a trifling sum, or even smelling rat, falls out with Rothschild - all very predictable to Mandelson, who whispers to Deripaska that he really should encourage Rothschild to go public with Osborne story - duly amended to show Osborne in bad light.

Alternate ending post fall out - Rothschild - notably dim - realises he's been duped and will shortly be friends with nobody of power and influence, desperately tries to re-ingratiate himself with Osborne who tells him where to go. Rothschild, furoius, goes green ink to the Times.

Allegedly.

[Saltmaker]

Resident leftie, please do not be offended that I take the Electoral Commission as the higher authority on this one.

Rothschild says that he's teaching Osborne a lesson for breaking house rules. Yet, if his allegations are true, tapping other guests for cash is quite alright. Odd rules!

[GB£.com]

Look, we know that a donation was offered as the Tories have confirmed that they investigated, consulted with senior Tories then decided not to accept it.

So all differing statements up to that point are meaningless. All the Tories have to do is show some proof to confirm that they did indeed reject the donation and the whole matter will be closed.

Either the donation was still 'live' when the story broke or it wasn't.

Now will CCHQ please just provide the evidence to back up their story that they rejected the donation and we can all move on!

[Jamal McAkhbar]

It's definitely time to revive the Keith Vaz and his favourite policeman's attempt to pervert the course of justice (the story that the BBC didn't run).

[Norm Brainer]

Malcolm! George is a charming man. The evidence mounts: http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2008/oct/23/georgeosborne-corfu

It's amazing what the lefties can drag up sometimes and make a story out of nothing when they see a bandwagon.
Like, wow, he caused some parents to ask their children to move (and probably rightly so)- ruined their entire holiday did it?
It's a non-story trying to ride on the back of an overblown prettymuch non-story.

[Shaitan]

I am far more interested in what becomes of the 500 Billion Pounds Gordon Brown spending on behalf of us, the taxpayer, than in the 50 grand the Tories never took from Mr Deripaska.

[Sir Piers]

Candida Jones' article is a riot. Gentlemen, in case we need it, we must all learn to exude an air of bashful apology.

[snegchui]

Now that Chris Huhne's request to Electoral Commission to take it further has been thrown out, is it fully dead?
Chasing down the aluminium tariff story and Mandelson's visits looks a lot more promising. Bowl him out for the third time so quickly would verily be the ambrosia of the Gods.
However I must say the wording of the Act on the "likelihood" should be given a look at.

[Votedave]

I do want to be a constructive opponent to the Labour Party but they are losing all my respect. Peter Mandelson has been back about a fortnight and already his party are spinning faster than a washing machine at full throttle.

[Shaun Bennett]

This has been the weirdest political scandal that I think I've ever seen. Its as if we've had a sneak peak into a parallel universe. "Shock, horror, Osborne has done nothing wrong", ""Tories embroiled in new scandal as George Osborne reveals that he has never taken illegal donations", and the BBC Political editor Nick Robinson suddenly appears warning that if any more allegations emerge about George Osborne's failure to be corrupt, then he may lose his job.

I suppose we shouldn't be too surprised. The BBC have been living on another planet for weeks-and you only have to see today's Daily Politics coverage of this incident to see that. We were told 'who would have thought it, only a few weeks ago the Tories were well ahead in the polls and David Cameron looked set to win the next election' whereas of course today...well nothings really changed but if we all talk about Gordon Brown single handedly saving the world, mabye something will in a couple of months.

What on earth is wrong with the BBC at the moment? Why have they suddenly decided to become Labour's cheerleaders? What can we do about it???

[ACT]

'The BBC have been living on another planet for weeks-and you only have to see today's Daily Politics coverage of this incident to see that' - I know, I know, but what on earth are we ever going to be able to do about that well known Trot, and Daily Politics helmsman, Andrew Neil?

As to this emergent 'Roon line, 'Osborne didn't do nothing wrong: so what's the story?' Well yeah, sure, he didn't, *if* he did what he said he did. And *not* what the other, at this stage, four witnesses say he did. And they've told us they're prepared to go to court to back up their version of events, while Gidders has been at pains to assure us he's not at all anxious to go to court. S'funny old world, isn't it?

[David Sergeant]

I like the original heading, "turning the corner" not, say, "the story is fading". Obviously the main basis of this was a biased job by the BBC, this should be taken further. It is beyond doubt that the BBC is biased in favour of Labour generally, by pressing home their handling of this issue it would not only detox the story but put more thought in peoples' minds next time Mandelson and the BBC pull another trick. My suspicion is that most people already accept that the BBC is biased and for real information go to Sky or ITN. When the "corner is turned" you don't do what Tories have done in the past, go back to sleep with a sigh of relief, you counter attack.

[Billy Billington]

Do we really have to suffer somebody as shallow as Osborne ? I suspect that he is a liability really. All it would take, would be some evidence of real blooding to make his position untenable. Osborne cannot be trusted because he has no comprehension of the reality of the street. Once he is ousted for what he is, the only possible long term role is that of Lord ,or what he was original trained for, which is the role of a mandarin.
Come on Dave be serious do you really expect us to vote for this man just because he was in you little club at oxford? This is the 21st century the century of the volatile. This is 24 hour reality and I for one am not willing to allow you lot even a sniff of power.

[Louise]

Bill B - the more George stays on, the more Dave gets it too. coughcoughBETSYGATEcoughcough?

[JMW]

Do you think there might be a Sun endorsement at the next General Election ? With this and them coming out for Boris Johnson, you never know.

[JMW]

Do you think there might be a Sun endorsement at the next General Election ? With this and them coming out for Boris Johnson, you never know.

[Louise]

@JMW - they will back whoever is likely to win at the time. Redwood told me at conference 2004 they were turning towards the Tories then but Labour won them back. Not that I think they were right to support Labour at that point, but we don't have a good track record, particularly if we haemmorhage more between now and the election.