The Conservative AND Unionist Party

It's not often that political leaders can meet without their plans leaking but months of negotiations between the Conservatives and the Ulster Unionist Party have taken place without the Westminster village reporting on them.  Following much spadework by Shadow Northern Ireland Secretary Owen Paterson MP, David Cameron and the UUP's Reg Impey have announced a joint working party that may result in what Mr Cameron calls the "creation of a new mainstream political party".  The two men have authored a joint article for today's Daily Telegraph.

Up until the Anglo Irish Agreement of 1986 the two parties were formally linked and many Unionist MPs served in Conservative governments.  This initiative may see a return to those days but the UUP is a shadow of its former self.  It has just one MP at Westminster, Sylvia Hermon, and its former leader, David Trimble, defected to the Conservatives last year.  The UUP remains a reasonable force in local government, however.  115 of NI's 582 councillors belong to the UUP compared to 126 Sinn Fein councillors and 182 DUP councillors.

From the UUP's perspective an alliance with the resurgent Conservatives may offer the best hope of electoral recovery.  A recent YouGov poll of NI voters, commissioned by Owen Paterson and NI Conservatives, found that "45% would be Very Likely or Likely to vote Conservative at the next general election if given the opportunity." 

Editorial comment: "ConservativeHome warmly welcomes this initiative.  Although the Conservative Party has been contesting NI elections since 1992 this potential merger represents a serious opportunity for the Tories to emerge as the only party with seats in every part of the UK.  Northern Ireland residents should be able to vote for non-sectarian parties and for an alternative to the big state politics of both the DUP and Sinn Fein."

Comments

[YourNameHere]

In Scotland the Conservative party is officially known as the "Scottish Conservative and Uninoist Party". I don't see any reason why the UUP couldn't be renamed to the "Ulster Conservative & Unionist Party". Of course, the word "Ulster" can be a bit emotive, which might be a problem.

[John Wilkin]

Across the water we could just call it the Unionist and Conservative Party :)

[Julian Melford]

Many Ulster Protestants - I'm not one - felt truly sold out by the UUP, and voted DUP.

Rev Paisley was quite shrewd in humiliating Sinn Fein by making them declare support for the Police; and also realising that if devolution stalled, the province would suffer a massive rise in water bills. Don't forget that the DUP built its reputation on running cost-effective local services.

Unlike Trimble's trimmers, the DUP stand for principle in politics (and did not sell out to John Major on Maastrict, as the UUP did).

Many true Conservatives would find common ground with the Christian traditionalists in Ulster, and might welcome a party whose leaders avoids silly stunts with bikes, hoodies and global warming hype.

Remember also the NI has a different tradition on terrorism and internment to the mainland before criticisng over the 42 days.

[Buckinghamshire Tory]

I look forward to the day when we can discuss Northern Ireland, Scotland or Wales, without having someone banging on and on about an English parliament.

[Philip]

This is good news, but confess to wondering how effective this would be as the UUP have only 1 MP, having lost out to the DUP, and therefore if it would have been better to work with the latter. And as Julian Melford said (2235) “Many true Conservatives would find common ground with the Christian traditionalists in Ulster”. With that I agree (however aggressively the tradition be expressed).

But the obvious drawback with the DUP would be they identify with one of NI’s two traditions, which would make them difficult for a ‘mainland’ party of Government to form with. However the same could be said for the UUP, but no doubt less so than the DUP. It remains to be seen if sufficient NI people would vote for a new mainstream non-sectarian Conservative/UUP party.

“I look forward to the day when we can discuss Northern Ireland, Scotland or Wales, without having someone banging on and on about an English parliament.” (Buckinghamshire Tory 2308). Absolutely.

[Ulster Tory]

Do the DUP have a policy position on Homsexuality? I just thought Iris and Paisley Junior had personal ones...

[Pedant]

"the Conservative Party has been contesting NI elections since 1992"

Actually the first parliamentary election the Conservatives contested in NI was the Upper Bann by-election in 1990. The Tory candidate came sixth with 3% and the winner was, ironically, David Trimble.

[Ulster Tory]

The Party actually contested elections over here in the 19th century (if my memory of prowling old election results serves me correctly). However, as that was pre-partition, NI didn't exist - so Pedant is correct.

[YourNameHere]

"Remember also the NI has a different tradition on terrorism and internment to the mainland before criticisng over the 42 days."

A different "tradition"? What? Internment was a total disaster, so you'd think their "tradition" might have taught them something that the others had forgotten.

The folk in NI (of which I was one) can have interment if they like, but the people in the rest of the country aren't too fussed about it.

If you "tradition" is about locking innocent people up with out charge, I'd be looking to move on from that. Hopefully Cameron can help!

[YourNameHere]

"Unlike Trimble's trimmers, the DUP stand for principle in politics (and did not sell out to John Major on Maastrict, as the UUP did). "

Rubbish. The DUP sold out the moment they knew the old bigot Paisley (see his loonitic rant against Pope John Paul II in the EU Parl.) could become top dog. They had to get rid of him because he became an embarrassment with the bum licking of his pal, the former IRA commander, McGuinness.

Trimble took all the tough decisions, and didn't just whip for fear and hate all his political career. He delivered something that nobody thought could be done.

[Zenobia]

I am not sure that I think this is a good idea. From an English point of view (and after all in spite of all the union flag waving the core of your party is in England)this means that there's another part of the union complete with its own devolved legislature that will use their votes to pass laws just for England.

When are you going to realise that you cannot keep ignoring the approx 55 million people in England. If there arises a really dynamic independant English party between now and the next election I think you would notice as big a backlash against your party as there would be against the Labour Party.

Denying England the same democratic rights as have been afforded to the Scots, Welsh and Northern Irish is the politics of eventual disaster. And you can't complain that you haven't been warned.

[Ken Stevens]

I look forward to the day when we can discuss England, as well as Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales, without having someone banging on against it.

[Iain]

"I look forward to the day when we can discuss Northern Ireland, Scotland or Wales, without having someone banging on and on about an English parliament."

Perhaps when someone in the British establishement gives some thought to England and English peoples issues, which has been completely abscent from political discussion.

There is a lot of talk around saying that the SNP's bye election win lastnight has advanced the break up of the UK. So if correct, and with Scotland , Wales and NI all having institutions to speak for them, who speaks for England?

[Patrick Harris]

The result in the Glasgow East by election serves to bolster my assertion that the Tories are the English party and nothing but the English party.

[Simon R]

I'm feeling a little smug, as I suggested this on this very site many months ago.

[Neil Wilson]

Yournamehere - then you have my apologies.

I think they started out as a bunch of lunatics but they've mellowed through more middle of the road people voting for them and joining them (Donaldson, who lived just by me for a time, for example)

[Neil Wilson]

Patrick Harris - have you ever been to Glasgow East?

If Glasgow East was an English seat we would still be on 6 per cent. Its rough equivalent is Liverpool Walton, somewhere so full of socialists and working class Catholics who so physically hate us and everything we stand for, that we will never do well.

[Marylebone Blue]

As a Northern Irishman now living in London, I think this is good news on the whole. The UUP is a natural political fit with the Conservatives.

One downside is, of course, the fact that the DUP have become the dominant voice of Unionism in NI and the UUP, up until now, have failed to offer a better alternative.

Furthermore, the UUP's only MP, Lady Hermon, has voted repeatedly with Labour, while the DUP has generally voted with the Conservatives, although they disgracefully back the government on 42 days detention.

Despite my UUP leanings, I think, in fairness, the DUP has changed somewhat in recent years and I think some of the sweeping statements made by posters above are unmerited.

For example:

"As for the DUP, no moderate Ulsterman votes DUP." That is an inaccurate comment. The majority of Ulster unionists (small u) now vote for the DUP. I worked and lived along side many of these folks and they are absolutely decent people - they just got fed up with incompetent UUP leadership.

"The DUP is a nasty, bitter party led by a grumpy old man who has much in common with Fred Phelps!"

I think you are referring to Ian Paisley here when in fact the DUP leader is Peter Robinson. Even if you disagree with Paisley, as I do, it is ridiculous to compare him to Fred Phelps.

I do think the Conservatives/UUP tie-up has some legs but there is some work to do:

"UUP are currently suffering from the same thing that afflicted us before Project Cameron - Too old, rich and too out of touch. However, there are some (relatively) young stars like Basil McCrea."

Largely agree, although I am not sure about the "rich" part - always seemed more of a myth than a reality, based on the UUP folks I knew. Sadly, there really aren't that many talented up and coming stars in the UUP these days. As others have pointed out, many of the rising stars left for the DUP when the UUP imploded.

It's also a bit simplistic to dismiss the likes of Arlene Foster and Peter Weir as bigots - they are, like it or not, some of the smartest unionists around and would naturally be Conservatives if they lived on the mainland (albeit on the right of the party). The UUP has some work to do to promote smart, younger people - it's a few years behind the Cameron generation.

[Ken Stevens]

" 'As for the DUP, no moderate Ulsterman votes DUP.' That is an inaccurate comment. .... they are absolutely decent people "

Possible analogy with some of those in England starting to vote BNP, despite its nasty image?

[Marylebone Blue]

Ken, I understand the analogy you are making but I don't agree with it. While I am a long-time UUP supporter, I don't think you can make a genuine comparison between the DUP and BNP in this regard - I think UKIP is a better comparison.

[Patrick Harris]

Neil Wilson - I remember when the whole of Scotland was Tory. with small enclaves of "working class" constituencies as you so conservatively put it.

[Neil Wilson]

Patrick - great wasn't it?

Our party changed dramatically in the late 70s/early 80s and we lost them all.

By the way, I made the working class comment to make the point that they tend to vote differently from their better-off co-religionists.

In Liverpool Labour took the place of the Irish Nationalists, whilst enough has been talked about the Labour/Catholic link in Glasgow over the last couple of weeks so as not to merit further comment.

[Ulster Tory]

Marylebone Blue I agree with you about painting some younger DUP people as bigots. I have great respect for Donaldson, Foster (despite her large amount of jobs) and Dodds. They are the next leaders of Unionism in Ulster. The Robinson/Paisley/Campbell generation will be gone soon.

[YourNameHere]

Donaldson is up to very little. Never had a job and just been hacking around politics all his life, moaning about this and that, playing victim. He's got nothing fresh or positive to offer. I hold him in very low regard after the way he tried to undermine Trimble when he was trying to make a go of things.

I remember attending a training day with Foster and Weir. Weir is a good chap, but all over the place. Foster is full of the Donaldson bitterness and spite.

I'd much prefer to see some young Conservative / Unionist people, who are of the newer generation, and don't have all this baggage that others have.

[Peter]

To yournamehere: I think if you actually knew what has happened to family members of Donaldson you would withdraw your comment. The UUP remember is full of ex Vanguard members(so what does that make them?). Also by Trimble resigning from the UUP shows his views of were the party is going and with that again the DUP is the only party in town for the Conservatives. Finally remember what Trimble did back in 95 supporting(in private) Lee Reynolds in his bid against James Molyneaux in March which of course then set him up for the contest in September against Maginnis,Ross,Smyth & Taylor.

[A headhunter]

An uncle of mine, Sir Stanley Reed, served as MP for Aylesbury as a Unionist until 1947. A lifelong India man (Editor of the 'Times of India') he campaigned for independence and informed numerous debates in the House of Commons. See DNB for more.

[dave]

for christs sake, is the british conservative party so appalingly desperate for votes it has to take ANYTHING to do with ulster unionists?........if it does its goodbye british/irish catholic votes enmasse , wake up tory boy.