Stephen Crabb MP questions Jacqui Smith's openness to deporting gay Iranian asylum seekers

Conservative MP Stephen Crabb, Chairman of the Conservative Party's Human Rights Commission, has criticised the Home Secretary for arguing that Iran is safe for "discreet" homosexuals:

"Most fair-minded people will be appalled at the Home Secretary's statement. The Iranian regime has a dreadful track-record when it comes to the treatment of homosexuals and other minority groups and is more than willing to use torture and the death sentence to punish offenders.

Asking minorities to live their lives discreetly is to give in to the tyrants and bullies who sustain their positions through fear and coerced conformity.  It demonstrates both an unelevated view of the importance of human rights and cowardice in championing our own system of values."

In this morning's Independent the Home Secretary is quoted as saying that asylum seekers to the UK can be deported if they live discreet lives.  The trouble is - if they don't - they can be hanged, as in the photo on the right.  An estimated 4,000 Iranians have been executed over the last twenty years.

The treatment of gay men in Iraq came to prominence earlier this year when Mehdi Kazemi was threatened with deportation to Tehran - even after his boyfriend had been executed.  Conor Burns wrote about it at the time for CentreRight.com.

This Labour Government is often 'tough' when it shouldn't be - as here - and 'soft' when it shouldn't be - illegal immigration more generally.  Without commenting on individual cases it would be good to see Dominic Grieve taking up this general issue.

Comments

[Alexander King]

Iranian homosexuals are precisely the type of immigrants we should be welcoming to this country. They are likely to be much more liberal and much more thankful to be in this country than many other immigrants have shown themselves to be.

We really ought to have an immigration policy which targets Jews, homosexuals and other put upon groups.

[Sammy Finn]

Well done Stephen Crabb. My own preference is for a very liberal policy on asylum and a very restrictive policy on general immigration. This government as the post says has it the wrong way round.

[justin Hinchcliffe]

We should also welcome Latino Americans - they are Christians, work hard and intergrate.

[chrisblore]

This is precisely the kind of incident that turns people against immigration policy in general. How can it be that we are unable to deport terrorists for fear that they will be tortured yet we deport innocent civilians who face certain death if their sexuality should become known to the authorities in their own countries? The Government has once again fatally misjudged the situation for the sake of being perceived to be "tough" on immigration and this will cost lives.

[Tony Makara]

The idea of someone being executed because of their sexual orientation, something beyond their choice or control, is very shocking. Such instances and others, like the woman who was under threat of being stoned to death for infidelity, or the young girl who was beaten to death for having a relationship with a boy from a different tribe, go beyond any accepted norms of civilized behaviour. Whatever people feel about matters of a sexual nature, and how such matters relate to their own moral world-view, I'm sure that any civilized person will agree such executions are unacceptable.

[graham p malpas]

smith is just not very bright!

[anthony scholefield]

Iraqi Christians have fled in hundreds of thousands to Jordan and the Catholic bishops here have just woken up to that.
Surely the principle should be that we dont welcome everyone who is persecuted for social or religious reasons in every country in the world at all times as other wise this country will dissolve itself-always supposing that most of these people are genuine.TheUn convention actually only requires refuge to be given in the first safe country which in the Case of the Iraqi Christians is Jordan which would also be alot nearer than the UK to Iran.
As has been pointed out ad nauseam the Uk spends about £2.50- per head on refugees thoughout th e world while it costs about £50,000 to let a refugee into the UK.Some people get a warm feeling when they let 50,000 refugees every year into the UK at a considerable cost to British natives of the poorest classes but seem quite relaxed about spending £2.50 per head perannum on refugees who dont make it here.

[Lord Roberts of Llandudno]

I welcome Stephen Crabb's support for the Lib-Dem commitment to a moratorium on deportation of gay Asylum Seekers to Iran. When I made the original approach to the Home secretary in March the Conservative Party refused to be amongst those giving their support - eighty peers signed that first letter. I did succeed on a personal level in obtaining the backing of two Tory peeresses but the Tory Whips refused point blank to help with any official backing. I trust that from now on we will see a u-turn and that the Conservatives will give us "official" support. But thank you Stephen !

[Iain]

"I welcome Stephen Crabb's support for the Lib-Dem commitment to a moratorium on deportation of gay Asylum Seekers to Iran."

And how do you intend to determine whether they are Homosexual or not?

[Ian Lewis]

Iain

Isn't that a bit like seeing if a suspected witch drowns, she isn't a witch? If a gay asylum seeker is deported back to Iran and executed, does that prove to you he is gay?

[Imogen Brodie]

COMMENT OVERWRITTEN.

[Tony Makara]

Thats a really good question Iain, it wouldn't be beyond some to fake it to get out of Iran, and who would blame them for wanting to leave that place. I suppose asylum would have to go to those who have a history of persecution. Perhaps the UK government could do a deal with the Iranian regime and offer to take those who have been condemned to death, would the Iranians agree to that?

[Iain]

"If a gay asylum seeker is deported back to Iran and executed, does that prove to you he is gay?"

Well with the asylum wide open to abuse as it is, I don't think it a very clever idea to widen the opportunities for yet more abuse of the system. But then I believe the asylum system is one big unworkable sham. Its a system put in place by past generations, a blank cheque written by them that we have no hope of honouring, and the only way we hope to manage the system is by trying to obstruct all those who would have a right to come here. So we deceitfully dangle a carrot of sanctuary to all these desperate people , just to show how humanitarian we are, but in truth hope they don't take us up on the offer, and do everything to ensure they don't. The asylum system is dishonourable, deceitful, and a lie, and I feel its about time we were honest with our selves about it. But it's also the despots friend, for the asylum system gets rid of the awkward squad, and as history has shown its the awkward squad which challenges authority, and creates the opportunity of change. Where would our society be if the people who laid their life down for their cause could instead have claimed asylum ?

[Imogen Brodie]

COMMENT OVERWRITTEN.

[Julian Melford]

Crabb has tried to be trendy and made a fool of himself to the majority. The press have reported how illegal immigrants pretend to be persecuted gays to stay in the UK, then burst out laughing after being granted asylum.

Under international convention, the genuinely-persecuted should go to the first safe country instead of adding to our over-populated shores, and maybe depriving genuinely needy families of council housing.

[Graeme Archer]

I vote to swap the Iranian bloke for Imogen.

@Iain- how would we know if they're gay? Hmm. Interesting question. Ask them to arrange some cushions? Test them on knowledge of musical theatre? (Sorry Tony, I know it's not a universal law, but these are tough times). Course, we could always just assess the evidence that they are gay through reference to their relationship history, before and after they arrived in the UK, but that would shut down the avenue for crass shit like Imogen's, wouldn't it? I mean, we're only talking about stringing them up from a crane, so it's not like it's serious or anything.

[sarcasm alert]

[Iain]

"Course, we could always just assess the evidence that they are gay through reference to their relationship history "

Oh I hadn't realised our intelligence was that good from Iran. I am surprised we haven't used this intelligence to protect our troops though from all the insurgents coming across the border to Iraq who were killing our troops with road side bombs.

[justin Hinchcliffe]

EDITOR, please remove the two posts from "Imogen Brodie" - many of us find them deeply offensive.

Would you allow the post to stay if they had been about blacks?

[Tony Makara]

"Test them on knowledge of musical theatre?"

Graeme, I don't think these stereotypes help, my hobby is collecting American movies from the 1930-1960 era and I can assure you that I'm quite an expert on musicals, especially those of the beautiful Jane Powell, even though I'm straight, so its not really a good indicator. I really don't think its possible to say who is genuine and who is faking it to get asylum, nontheless that shouldn't be an excuse not to save lives if the opportunity arises.

I agree that Imogen's comments are a bit pathetic, I suppose all straight people do carry a degree of prejudice, especially when we are younger, usually though that is reserved for the exhibitionistic queens or dykes, maybe its a lifetime of conditioning or just an instinctive kick back, who can say? One thing is for sure though, its not a reason to let someone die.

[Adam in London]

Interesting to see how the attitude of the party rank and file has changed since the days when we used to call for a quota on asylum...

[Alexander King]

To be honest, even if it was an Iranian who is faking it, I think I would still allow them into the country. Anyone who wants to escape from that nutjob Adhamedinejad can't be all bad.

Plus, the Iranian diaspora has contributed magnificently in pretty much every country it has settled in. There is a wealth of knowledge, culture and talent residing in the Persian people.

If there is any group we ought to be welcoming, then it is liberal-minded Iranians, gay or not gay.

[martin sewell]

Our instictive revulsion for the inhumanity of foreign depotic regimes is in tension with our incapacity to put right the evils of the world.

Often the "best" solution would be to support regime change but liberal values often inhibit that.

We also have a problem that the lofty principle.

"Give me your tired, your poor,

Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,

The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.

Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,

I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

worked for half a century for the USA but even there they selected those admitted and have decided there are limits to growth
in their population.

The UK is not a continent.

In practical terms we cannot relieve the burdens of every oppressed minority and so we are going to stuggle to find the limits of our policy. Every time we draw a line "here" someone will use the incremental argument under the Human Rights Act if "here" - why not "there"?.

Uncomfortable and unfashionable as it may be, the old practice of invoking the arbitrary Monarch's sovreignty had its real practical value which we have lost by accepting the French enlightenment doctrine of governance by "pure reason"..... and look at where that took us!

[Graham D'Amiral]

I can think of no case for sending a person back to any country that executes people because of their sexual orientation. Telling Gay Iranians they will be fine if they are discreet about things would surely be like saying Jewish people could have got on ok in Nazi Germany if they had just kept their head down and not drawn attention to themselves.

If the government can't protect the fundamental human rights of victims of persecution not only is it a failure of asylum policy but it shows it acts without a moral conscience.

[Iain]

"If there is any group we ought to be welcoming, then it is liberal-minded Iranians, gay or not gay."

They seem to be doing fine in Iran...

'Today, Iran carries out more sex change operations than any other nation in the world except for Thailand.'

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7259057.stm

[passing leftie]

Julian Melford | June 23, 2008 at 21:33

Crabb has tried to be trendy and made a fool of himself to the majority. The press have reported how illegal immigrants pretend to be persecuted gays to stay in the UK, then burst out laughing after being granted asylum.

I think I've read similar reports. After duping immigration, they went to Waitrose with their huge book a vouchers, bought themselves some crudités and a nice Semillion, before tucking into some swan in their new penthouse paid for by the council. Then they stole somebody's job, got all their teeth capped on the NHS, mugged some grannies and finally used their amzing lobbying power to their local schools not to celebrate Christmas while banning Morris dancing. Welcome to Planet Daily Mail.

[C Powell]

Given how quick Ben Bradshaw and Stonewall were to criticise David Davis over his votes on gay issues, one wonders how soon we will hear from them on what Jacqui Smith has said? Or is Labour beyond criticism on gay issues, no matter how appalling their view?

[Ted]

It's ridiculous to grant people asylum on the strength of their supposed sexual preferences.

Anybody can claim to be gay.

[glen handley]

What planet are these people living on???
Iranians of any sexual group should not be here!! wake up you lot! go out into the streets and ask joe public what they think, for Gods sake wake up, please!!!!

[David]

Stephen Crabb is right to deomonstrate about this stupid comment by a government minister. The treatment of minorities in Iran and other such countries is outrageous and as a democratic, christian country we should take every step to afford these individuals the right to freedom of expression on these shores. This is another example of the government trying to portray themselves as tough but getting it horribly wrong!