Cameron "delighted" at Irish "no"

You bet he is.  Ireland's "no" means he's off the hook - at least for now - on the whole post-ratification referendum debate.  The Conservative leader's full statement is published below the smile.

“I’m delighted with the news. People in Ireland have sent the clearest possible message. They do not want this treaty, they do not want this Constitution and by all rights now it should be declared dead. The French said no to it, the Dutch said no to it and it was brought back and the only people who’ve been given a chance to pass judgement on it, the Irish, have now said no to it.

“I think the elites in Brussels have got to listen to people in Europe who do not want endless powers being passed from nation states to Brussels. They do not want these endless constitutions and treaties.

“And I have to say it is the height of arrogance for Gordon Brown and our Government to press ahead with ratifying this treaty and flying in the face of public opinion. The Prime Minister should come to the House of Commons on Monday and explain in a statement what he proposes to do. Part of that statement is that if this is not dead, we must be able to have a referendum in this country so that we have the chance to pass judgement on this treaty.”

Comments

[Glyn]

All EU governments and the Commission are saying they intend to plough ahead regardless, but if they do so that will mean that Ireland would need to have its own distinct legal relationship with the EU.

The only other options - abandoning the whole thing or getting Ireland to vote again - look even less appealing.

So if Ireland were to have its own legal relationship with the EU - one which would undoutedly involve greater autonomy for Ireland and no fruther transfers to Brussels - one would imagine that many British Conservatives would like to opt out of Lisbon and go for the looser Irish model as well.

Whatever happens, there will be significant implications for Britain from this.

[Sally Roberts]

Very well said David Cameron! Keep up the pressure on Brown.

[Mark Fulford]

If only David Davis hadn't cocked this week up with his grand jesture.

[John Broughton]

Mark don't be so pathetic. It is about time someone stood up for freedom and liberty.

Cameron needs now to keep his promise (made in the Sun last September)that he will hold a referendum come what may because the eurosoviet simply will not stop because the Irish said no.

[Mark Fulford]

Mark don't be so pathetic.

Come on, you can insult better than that.

It is about time someone stood up for freedom and liberty.

Yes, and the best way to stand up for liberty and freedom is to work as a team to become the next government. David Davis V Kelvin MacKenzie achieves nothing and risks a potentially very embarrassing defeat.

[Yet Another Anon]

All EU governments and the Commission are saying they intend to plough ahead regardless
If all those in both Houses of Parliament opposed to the Lisbon Treaty refused to co-operate with parliamentary business, held up parliamentary business by voting down everything before parliament until the government both accepted that they would not proceed with the bill and that they would introduce a referendum on EU Membership then surely the government ultimately would be forced to concede or face total mayhem for the remainder of the parliament.

[Chris Gillibrand]

President (of the the European Parliament ) Pöttering on German TV just a few minutes ago.

"The Irish people voted against themselves".

"At the Summit, we expect the Irish government to come up with a solution to this problem".

Kill the Treaty, that democracy might yet live!

[Gloy Plopwell]

No problem! The european project goes on. It has to, with stupendous momentum. we hvae to make the case properly and put it back to the Irish to pass it. A temporary set back, but they don't understand what benefits them.

[cosmic]

Yes, yes. Keep on asking the question until they get the answer right. This is the new-style democratic EU.

[Neil Wilson]

"At the Summit, we expect the Irish government to come up with a solution to this problem"

What, like ignore the voters?

That comment is typical of the arrogance that comes from within the EU. Driven by a hatred of America and greed, they believe that their little project is destined to succeed.

[Conand]

This result is a great thing for european harmony. The Republic of Ireland has saved us from tyranny! As a descendent from Anglo-Irish landowners the irony isn't lost on me.
Now we can try and get rid of that total muppet Baroso and work out how we can have a better functioning EU, that takes the sensitivities of it's people and their nations into account.

[Ray Griffin]

Fine sentiments from Cameron, but please will someone take him aside and teach him how to write and speak. Why does he not speak declaratively. He waffles at the beginning of his sentences, rather than getting straight to his point. 'I think the elites' and 'And I have to say' are not needed and sound muddled. He does the same in PMQs when he says 'is it not clear...'. He needs to be more direct and display his principles, rather then wait for the focus group answer.

[Gloy Plopwell]

The Irish should have thought proparly about whats good for them. They acted selfishly because the coheesion of the European comunity must go on. And yes the Irish goverment should come back now with their contingency plans for who they are going to resolve this for all our benefits in europe, and order another vote. If we can find some bits of the constitushion which can be changed then thats ok, let's do that. We must not lose our stupendous momentum in Europe. The irish have caused a problem, but no problem the community goes on.

[Philip]

I thought David Cameron's statement was excellent, e.g. I think the elites in Brussels have got to listen to people in Europe who do not want endless powers being passed from nation states to Brussels. They do not want these endless constitutions and treaties.

As for Labour's defiance of public opinion by contining to ratify the Constitution, sorry Treaty, this follows the whipping of their MPs to vote against reducing the number of late term abortions against public opinion, their nasty class war C&N campaign, the tax increase for the poor, no real improvement in public services after all the extra tax-payers' money being spent....

[RichardJ]

"The Irish people voted against themselves".

"At the Summit, we expect the Irish government to come up with a solution to this problem".

And the EU elites wonder why people hate them. Or maybe they know and just don't care.

[Conor McGinley]

Gloy,

You're patronising remarks about us thick paddys not knowing what's best for us reveal your own ignorance. You have obviously been taken in by the fat cat MEPs who didn't trust their own people to do what they were told.

The treaty is a dilution of national sovereignty. It takes a nations foreign affairs away from their own hands. An EU army can be sent to war without the say so of a member state. It robs a country of it's right to set it's own corporation tax. It denies a country's right to set out it's own social welfare program, replacing state organisations with private profit making ventures.

Have you even read the document? Or do you believe the reason the other 26 countries weren't allowed a say in the laws that govern them is because it was for their own good?

You have yet to list one positive aspect of the treaty (don't give me some deliberately vague waffle about 'streamlining') so I'll wait for you to make a case rather than tell us we're too uneducated to see what's best for us (and for the rest of Europe).

My guess is that because the conservatives are against it you have to be for it. Putting party politics before national interests. But then I have to guess because you haven't made a point yet.

[Philip]

I would add, am I corerect in thinking that as a member state has rejected the Treaty, this gives it no legal force, and thus presumably this changes our position if this Government does ratify it? Would we not even need to hold a post-ratification referendum, and just hold a vote in Parliament to reject it? What’s the point of having a referendum on a Treaty which is not legally enforceable anyway?

However, of course it seems the EU Super-State project will press on anyway, with different bits of the Constitution, sorry Treaty, being brought into force through various other (back-door) means.

[Tapestry]

David Davis can carry on where the Irish NO voters left off. Turnout was over 53%. The BBC is claiming 45%. Lies Lies Lies as ususal.

[Agincourt]

At last, people are standing up for democracy, rather than the EU's brand of administrative convenience. Well done, the Irish people (but not the weasel-like Irish government & its elite), well done Stuart Wheeler with his curent court case against the UK government's refusal to hold the 2005 election-promised referendum, & well done David Davis for putting principle before politics (by justifying his own position as an MP after the recent anti-habeas corpus 28/42 detention days Commons vote) by standing again for Parliament!

Perhaps Cameron could show some principles too, & call for UK-wide referendums - not just on the current, but now discredited, Lisbon treaty - but on ALL major future EU legislation. So far, he has said NOTHING about the 3,255 EU directives, regulations, & decisions that were imposed on Britain in 2007, in the EU's now routine style - ie completely DEVOID of any genuinely DEMOCRATIC PROCESSES [I don't count the sleaze-ridden EU Parliamenta s Democratic!].

Come on Cameron, this is the time to get real! Otherwise, move over for David Davis!

[Dale]

"Now we can try and get rid of that total muppet Baroso"

Hey I like Jose manuel Baroso

[Alex Swanson]

the best way to stand up for liberty and freedom is to work as a team to become the next government

You are an optimist aren't you? Don't be fooled: a Cameron govt would be as bad as this one. We've already seen backtracking on leaving the EPP and on holding a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty; what makes you think that they wouldn't backtrack on other stuff too?

[Tapestry]

Lisbon also unravelling in Italy. See HERE

[grumpy old man]

To Agincourt. I would argue that sleeze is a product of human weakness - it has nothing to do with the principals of Democracy but is a parasite upon any system of government. The opaque dealings of the Tory europhiles in the selection of candidates for the euro-elections was sleeze, and also an assult on DC's leadership. The europroject is a political experiment under development and as such needs a sceptic input to test the assumptions of the europhiles, (or euro-asts, which newly coined term I consider to be more apt). I have grown to be sceptical of a political position which denies disagreement and actively attempts to muzzle opposition. This is what the Irish political elite attempted to do, and were soundly trounced by the people they claimed to represent. Unfortunately The main parties in Eire have been bought off by the EU and are unlikely to voluntarily remove their snouts from the trough in accordance with the wishes of those who elected them as public SERVANTS, not masters. I personally hope that the EU attempts to further bully the Irish - as we know to our bitter historical cost, the Irish are not easily bullied.
Dale, I like muppets too,but I don't think that one should be in a responsible position.
Gloy, thats the sort of thinking that gave rise to the Nazis and the Communists. If the case for further integration was that strong, don't you think that more Irish would have voted for it? " The public don't understand" is a step away from "We must override the public will so as to do good" which is a step away from "we are right, so we don't need elections". We (and the Irish) have spent the last 400 years protecting ourselves against that way of thinking.
Connor, it's "Paddies" but I don't think you're REALLY thick.:) Unlike Gloy you understand the perils of European integration.

[johnC]

The fact that the European political elite are carrying on with the ratification process regardless of the Irish referendum result completely vindicates David Davis' remarks about the gulf between the political classes and the country at large, and totally justifies his decision to take the civil liberties issue to the country in a by-election. The elites in both Brussels and Westminster need to let the people speak.

[Roberts]

Cameron Delighted At Irish "NO" ! Is this the man and party who resisted being "controlled" by Brussels ? but quite willing to be "Controlled" by Dublin ??? Losing the argument in UK Parliament but rejoicing in a referendum in which not a solitary UK citizen had a vote !!! Tory democracy is a strange creature !!

[snegchui]

Gloy,
Euroland uber alles? Don't you worry, Ireland has thought properly what is good and bad for it. The economic and social integration of Euroland has features that are worthwhile and are worth subscribing to. Unification of individual sovereign powers to a centrally non-elected body that so far has shown itself to be corrupt, incompetent, inconsistent and remote from the populace is not something worth subscribing to at all. Clean up the institutions, get the accounts signed off for a change, make the EU Parliament the true legislative body, make the EU MEPS directly responsible for actions to their national and EU electorates, send corrupt EU Commissioners to jail (Oh, the fact they have lost their job is punishment enough - Edith Cresson) does not cut it. Once these minimal, non-partisan things are done, you might find people in general have more respect for and less suspicion of the EU.
And before the "Irish are 1% of the EU, how can they stop it?" argument starts, let us remember Holland and France rejected the Lisbon precursor and their respective Govts lacked the courage and integrity to vote again. Irish Embassies around Europe were besieged by people who were denied their vote on Lisbon. The EU people do not accept this treaty in the way the cowardly Angela Merkel and duplicitous Baroso spout. If they force this Treaty through despite knowing that they lie and spin, they will increase the tension between ruled and rulers and we all know where that eventually leads to. I will be testing the strength of the lamp posts in my locality. Another poster has indicated the Italians may have a rumpus of their own, I sincerely hope so. I do not want the EU to derail, but it must reform itself before it can again raise any claims to legitimacy of any sort.

[Roberts]

Cameron Delighted At Irish "NO" ! Is this the man and party who resisted being "controlled" by Brussels ? but quite willing to be "Controlled" by Dublin ??? Losing the argument in UK Parliament but rejoicing in a referendum in which not a solitary UK citizen had a vote !!! Tory democracy is a strange creature !!

[Edward Huxley]

Brave words from David Cameron, but unless he promises a retrospective referendum on the Treaty/Constitution, just a load of waffle.

[Martin]

@ Gloy Plopwell | June 14, 2008 at 00:45

I don't know who you are - but you really are an offensive EU extremist aren't you. You EU people really are old fashioned - haven't you realised it, the world is moving on, we don't like your EU, we want DEMOCRACY, not a takeover.

You cannot have both the EU and democracy. If we have the EU you have to be happy losing any meaningful democracy.

Maybe the solution you want is to abolish Ireland. Inconvenient for your Plan is it not?

I have switched off from you EU weirdos. Go and play your little anti-democratic games in the rest of the EU but leave England OUT OF IT.

Unless they have endless referenda, Ireland may end up having an arrangement like the Swiss. Which is exactly the direction England should also go in - see Global Vision; as Ruth Lea says the EU ".. needs to embrace a more modern, looser approach and be prepared to accept that some countries, whilst happy to have a relationship with the EU, do not wish to be part of ever-closer political and economic integration. Britain is clearly one such country"

[James]

Regarding Gloy Plopwell

You guys getting upset at Gloy Plopwell are clearly not regular ConHome readers. He pops up under that name quite often with very tongue in cheek and amusingly extremist comments - usually along the lines of how the glorious advance of the Lib Dems is progressing nicely, and he confidently predicts a large Lib Dem majority at the next election.

Reread his comments with the assumption that he is speaking ironically, because having read his comments regularly on ConHome, he clearly is.

[snegchui]

James, the spelling and the fact that this person has been like a rash over the site for the last 24 hours would indicate a sense of humour at play , "We golly plop" as an anagram would confirm that too. However over 8 months I haven't come across this name before and it stands out. Oh well how we all amuse ourselves.

[Ken Adams]

This is a golden chance for David Cameron to again state clearly that he will as PM offer the British people a referendum on this treaty. Prevarication can only add to the impression that he is only playing party politics and has no intention of really doing anything serious about the situation of the EU. It is after all our own governments who have the power to do something; they are the ones who have been using that power to create further EU integration. If Mr Cameron believes this treaty is bad for Britain there can be no excuse for letting it stand, even though it has been ratified.

[Jason]

"No problem! The european project goes on. It has to, with stupendous momentum. we have to make the case properly and put it back to the Irish to pass it. A temporary set back, but they don't understand what benefits them."

Thus Gloy.
I think Herr Pottering would probably have used the phrase:
" bring them to an understanding of what is good for them".

Calm down Conor McG, there are numerous ways to attack the European dictatorship as well as the head on.

[Betty]

Up the Irish. They really have got it right. This is a brave stand against totalitarian Europe.
We were promised a Referendum, and if Brown cannot gives us one,he should go NOW.

[Neil Allen]

HA HA!!! I wonder if Mr Brown silently thought to himself" democracy is a pain in the arse".
What kind of a government talks of teaching democracy to small former russian states whilst refusing us our democratic right to a referendum. How democratic will it be that it will all go ahead anyway in Ireland through the backdoor.

Good on you Ireland!

[Rev Smurf]

Yet another Anon said:

"If all those in both Houses of Parliament opposed to the Lisbon Treaty refused to co-operate with parliamentary business, held up parliamentary business by voting down everything before parliament until the government both accepted that they would not proceed with the bill and that they would introduce a referendum on EU Membership then surely the government ultimately would be forced to concede or face total mayhem for the remainder of the parliament."

Sadly the Bill is already before the Lords.
The time for such Tactics has been and gone.
As The Euroski leaders have already indicated that they will push on despite the Irish Vote I suspect any hope of killing this "Treaty" stone dead in the UK is hopeless for now.
As it is "Brave words from David Cameron, but unless he promises a retrospective referendum on the Treaty/Constitution, just a load of waffle.", as another contributor so eloquently said. I do wonder exactly what is in the mind of the Leader, as the EU is one area that could still undermine the Party's currant lead in the opinion polls. Wouldn't it be sensible to get Europe out of the way as an issue before the run up to the next election. We really do need to be singing from the same hymn book if we hope to convince the "people" that we are fit to govern.

[David Parker]

There is a strong probability that the EU will simply change the rules, so that it will no longer be necessary for the Treaty to be ratified by every member before coming into operation. Technically, Ireland would not then be bound by the Lisbon Treaty, but would continue to be bound by all the previous ones. Since the European Court of Justice is totally in the pocket of the European Commission and is, by its own constitution, obliged to act "in the interests of ever closer union" the EU would then simply ride roughshod over Irish interests unless they came to heel.
So, whilst this is a great victory for the Irish, the battle is still far from won, with their biggest enemy being most of their own political elite.

A similar situation exists in Britain, where a referendum would probably produce a result very similar to the Irish one, but where the majority of the europhiliacs belong to or are associated with the political class.

Cameron now has the chance to show his true colours. The Irish No has strengthened the demand in Britain that Brown should not ratify the Treaty without a referendum and politicians who deny that demand surely do so at the risk of their own political careers. If Cameron calls for a vote of no confidence in the Government if Brown insists upon ratification, if he loses this he will strengthen rather than weaken his own credibility in the eyes of eurosceptics and the country as a whole. If he should win that vote, then this should guarantee his victory at the next election.

If, on the other hand, he bottles it and dodges the issue, not only will he probably lose a substantial amount of support within the Conservative party, but he will be seen by the general public as indecisive or insincere.

[Martin]

@ Agincourt | June 14, 2008 at 02:23

"Come on Cameron, this is the time to get real! Otherwise, move over for David Davis!"

Request for information:

Do you think that David Davis would take up Global Vision's view that UK should renegotiate a Swiss/EFTA arrangement with no economic or political union?

[mel]

David Parker you said
"There is a strong probability that the EU will simply change the rules, so that it will no longer be necessary for the Treaty to be ratified by every member before coming into operation. "

How can they do this then? The treaty that is being passed through our parliament saying that it must be passed by ALL member states. While the treaty also allows it to change the rules without parliament in future, that part cannot exist without full and legal ratification of the treaty to begin with ie by ALL. They can say whatever they like but surely the Conservative party can repeal an illegally passed treaty when the time comes. We are not above the law nor is the EU commission and nor is the Labour party! It's about time they realised this. If anything the House of Lords have a duty to stop ratification immediately of a treaty that if passed will be passed without following the rules the treaty itself set's out. The EU will get away with it only works if member states do not stand up for the law. Stand up please some government department somewhere with some integrity.

[John Broughton]

Mel

Surely the Conservative Party (when next in government) can repeal any treaty?

If a government cannot do so it can no longer be a government.

[mel]

John, I certainly hope so.

[Tapestry]

The Treaty is also stuck in an unratified state in Italy where Berlusconi's coalition partners The Northern League are demanding a referendum, and will not vote it through Parliament. And the Treaty is stuck in Germany where the President will not sign it as it is considered unconstitutional. He is not obliged to sign it anyway now that Ireland has rejected it, and his record in 2005 shows that he will now not do so.

What point is there in Cameron offering future referendums on Lisbon which is already sunk - or soon could be?

Brown might ratify it through our Parliament but if it fails in three at last other countries, it is not going to be a legal basis for the EU anyway. By 2010 Lisbon will be last year's compost, and the EU in a very different state.

What Cameron needs to do is specify a new relationship with the EU for Britain. As the current relationship is now in chaos, he might as well wait and see what happens.

The political map within Britain is also changing. Labour MPs will surely jettison Brown. They nearly did last week over 42 days. It will only take 5 more rebels next time 42 days hits the Commons and Brown too might be history.

A new Labour leader might be eurosceptic in the wake of Lisbon collapsing. Cameron might be facing a very different scenario in a few months' time. He is right to keep his options open and see how events unfold.

Anyway he has David Davis assuming the role of chief activist and executioner. It's a great team.

[passing leftie]

Gloy is a UKIP troll - weriously, you lot are so easy to wind up. You really believe people like Gloy exist, or you'd like to.