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i wonder if there is any serious right-winger in the shadow cabinet.

I wonder if anyone has stood up to Osborne on the spending policy?

Nick Herbert maybe isn't that well known yet, but I think he deserves to be on this list

There is nothing necessarily of the "right" about support for the Iraq war. Certainly not in a British sense anyway.

Many who would describe themselves as on the "right" including Tebbit, Lamont, Leigh etc would say it wasn't in the national interest.

Fair comment ashley.

Now, now Ashley, it's Tim who tells the rest of us who's on the "Right", and who's not. That's why God, and Stefan, put him here after all.

Liam Fox, meanwhile, is a flake who no more 'leads' the right than he stands any credible chance of leading the party.

If you read John Redwood's articles and blog, you will see that he is a libertarian rather than an authoritarian right-winger. William Hague was libertarian when elected party leader but sold out to the authoritarians.

Fox and Davis, like IDS, are moral authoritarians. In practice, Cameron is also authoritarian but from a politically correct and green viewpoint. He wants to use the tax system to penalise individuals' choices that he does not approve of.

Boris Johnston used to claim that he was a libertarian but now wants to ban plastic bags and a drink on the way home on the Tube. He is now a fully fledged Cameroon complete with his Cameroon minder Nick Boles (real Mayor).

The only true libertarian in the Shadow Cabinet is Nick Herbert. Michael Fallon and Lord Forsyth also regard themselves as libertarians. They are only Conservatives that I respect now. Herbert for Leader!

He wants to reduce the time limit for abortion to 12 weeks, and calls aborting blastocysts and embryos "killing." He's one of the few MPs who has been succesfully sued, has claimed friendship with Mother Teresa based on a letter, he rails against the Tobacco industry, and yet is happy to make use of a Tobacco-sponsored box at Wimbledon, and he's got a nice line in racist jokes. So, yes, I think he qualifies.

The answer to your question Alan S is almost certainly "no". No one stands up for conservative values in the shadow team. Revolts.co.uk showed earlier this week how the shadow cabinet votes consistently to the left of the rest of the parliamentary party.

Don't know whether he is "ring wing" (whatever that means) or not, but Gerald Howarth seems a good man to me. "Passing leftie" views please - have you a full shadow cabinet knife list?

I don't really understand this. Liam Fox has been silent on the surge. no Frontbencher supports the Iraq war in any substantial way.

I am not surprised to see David Davies fall in support. His civil libertarianism put me off him.

Tim- how about having a poll on who is the most left-wing member of the Shadow Cabinet?

I recall Fox's leadership speech in Blackpool in 2005. A large part of it was about the pressing need for more people to fly the union flag outside their homes followed by an Aunt Sally attack on those who denigrate 'our flag'. All fairly cringe-making I'm afraid. I'm sure the right can do better than Foxy for a leader of substance.

Sure, Duncan. I'm also planning a vote on who is the leading champion of the European Union within the party.


Editor~ must language such as that used by Sammy Finn (12:02) be use on this site?

Thank you Pauline. I share your view of ACT, Sammy, but please use clean language on this site.



Enough of this stupid language "moral authoritarian" Your silly purist libertarian doctrines have no answers to many fundamental questions facing this country. Can you not see that private life has no future in a country where strong family bonds no longer exist? Libertarianism is a dead end.

Editor, (Re your 12.01 comment) Surely the most ardent member of the Conservative Party for the European Union has to be Ken Clarke, followed by Ian Taylor and Michael Heseltine.

The fact that you have to cite what Hague does nor does not say in the privacy of the Shadow Cabinet room in order to back up your own judgement on this shows that it is rather meaningless to talk of leaders of any particular tendency on the front bench. You might have heard how Hague behaves at Shadow Cabinet, but you are less likely to have heard what he says privately to Cameron, i.e. in what direction his real influence is.

Once you are in the Cabinet or Shadow Cabinet you cannot be a public leader for a particular tendency or, if you appear to be, either (a) it's just coincidence because of the portfolio held; (b) you are probably being disloyal and not a team player; or (c) the perception is based on prior tendencies and not on current "leadership". Dr Fox qualifies on all three of these but it's not necessarily to his credit.

I answered Hague on the basis of (c). He also scores in terms of being able to make a speech and otherwise lead right of centre thought and opinion in the country. But what does "right" mean? On this same thread some are saying no-one is right unless they are libertarian and someone else that Davis is not right because he is too civil libertarian. I regard defence of our liberties, which Davis has been very strong with, as a key tenet of proper conservatism, i.e. right. I also view having a foreign policy which centres on looking to British interests in the world, and not to interventionist crusading or supporting the US right or wrong, as the proper conservative position. That was Enoch Powell's position but apparently no longer regarded as right wing.

Perhaps the real conclusion is once you get past the age of about 35, and certainly 45, anyone who self-identifies as "right" or "left" as a blanket category within a political party needs to broaden their perspective and grow up a bit.

Well here's a pointed comment for you then - your attempt this morning to stoke up interest in Liam, Leader of the Right was risible, in addition to being transparent. It's now been subjected to the wisdom of this thread's crowd at any rate, and look where it's got to. Outright, widespread derision.

It wasn't the Editor ACT but 44% of Tory members who nominated Foxy. If you hate this site so much I wonder why you visit here.

Well it wasn't 44% of Tory members, it was 44% of those who visited this site and decided to offer a view? And since Liam Fox is Tim's favourite Tory (at present) it is conceivable that it was plugged to favourable quarters shall we say. But that is just me speculating. I am actually generally speaking in accordance with Fox's views but I have (nor will I) forgive him for his long sulk after losing the leadership election. If he didn't openly campaign against Cameron he did little to help him through the tough times.

Nice theory Matthew but the sample is weighted to the population that accurately forecast the 2005 leadership election.

I agree with the comment maker about Nick Herbert.
he could be a real leader of the right/ true conservatives iin the years to come.

No francis Maude on this list!!!!


I like Fox's Atlanticism and Euroscepticism, but I'm not yet convinced of his effectiveness as a champion of the Right. As Shadow Defence Secretary he is uniquely placed to demonstrate his 'right-wing' credentials by challenging Osborne successfully over the defence budget and securing an unequivocal Tory commitment to increase funding for our armed forces. I have not seen any evidence so far that he is prepared to push hard on this issue.

Our armed forces are chronically under-funded and over-stretched, and as reports continue to come back from Iraq and Afghanistan on injuries and fatalities due to shortages of appropriate equipment, the need for a significant boost to the defence budget becomes ever more urgent. Over to you, Mr Fox..

By applying the brake to Cameron's attempt to leave the EPP Hague has ensured that we will not believe Cameron were he to try and defuse the time bomb with a promise of a post election post ratification referendum on the Lisbon Treaty.This will mean marginal seats will be squeezed by UKIP standing against non-BOO Tories.
Let us not forget that less than 20% of the electorate voted for Boris

I voted for Liam even though I'm not of the right wing of the party.
He is more charismatic than David Davis and more engaged than William Hague.

Liam Fox is a populist authoritarian, a latter day version of the reggae loving Sir Teddy Taylor.

Thank god people have finally woken up to vague Hague.He's not ""of the right"".He is a career-mind politician.

"Boris Johnston used to claim that he was a libertarian but now wants to ban plastic bags and a drink on the way home on the Tube. He is now a fully fledged Cameroon complete with his Cameroon minder Nick Boles (real Mayor)."

Seems to me you are confused about libertarianism. You sound like an anarchist.

"I voted for Liam even though I'm not of the right wing of the party.
He is more charismatic than David Davis and more engaged than William Hague."

Wouldn't that make you an MP?

Marian, I am not an anarchist, just a supporter of small government.

No libertarian would ban plastic bags. How is Boris going to enforce his ban - prosecute Indian and Bangladeshi shopkeepers? Fine old ladies and young Mums who use old plastic bags?

How is Boris going to enforce his Tube booze ban? Prosecute bankers have a can of Pimms on the District line to Chelsea, Wimbledon or Richmond? How much will the extra British Transport police cost?

Liberal conservatism? It's a sick joke!

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.

Hadn't visited this site in months until a colleague drew my attention to the Kawczynski piece earlier today and, lo and behold, there's a walloping great big picture of the good doctor proclaiming him the leader of 'the right'. Well, stone me.

Liam Fox played a prominent role in the denial of natural justice towards Howard Flight.

A man with leadership qualities would have acted to uphold the law and the party's constitution.

When the 1922 Committee looked into the Howard Flight affair after the election it concluded, amongst other things, that he was denied natural justice and that the Whip did not have the power to remove the whip! It was an unconstitutional action.

Liam Fox's role, as Chairman, was to reassure the members into believing the process was constitutional, when he almost certainly knew that it was not (judging by the dates of the legal advice!). It was a very successful "lynching" - led by Liam Fox!

Let's judge Liam by what steps he has taken to right this wrong - answers on a postcard please!

What???? Liam Fox - Why oh Why is this man taken so seriously? Can anybody tell me?

The man is so dull and inspid he makes Gordon Brown seems inspiring.

I asked him a question at a party breakfast meeting in Newcastle just before the last election and he just waffled for 2 minutes (it was clear he was tired and had obviously forgtten what the question was) and gave the most vacuous and monotonous answer I have ever heard a 'senior' politician give.

Liam Fox is an empty suit quite frankly, how anyone can say he is the leader of anything let alone the right, especially when the genuinely great William Hague is in cabinet, is simply beyond me!

My dislike, distrust and sheer despair at the inspid nature of this careerist politican is boundless.

I have just noticed Blue Patriot's comment about Liam Fox being 'Charismatic' - when? on which planet??

Liam Fox is a charisma free zone - PERIOD as our North American frends are wont to say!

Agree with both of ther above posts totally. Liam Fox like John Major and Ian Duncan Smith did in there day as risen further than his ability`s should have allowed him to!

Certainly, Dr. Fox was a superb Health spokesman. He seems to have wilted in Defence.

For me it doesn't matter who is leader of the, mainly, authoritarian Right. Their agenda is not compatible with modern Britain, and a return to the of days will at best see the Party split into two and worse never return it to government - ever.

should read: "and a return to the old days..."

The party's going to split and collapse one day anyway Justin. It's only a matter of time. Then maybe patriots can build a decent party and all the careerists and anti-British liberals like you can join the Lib Dems where you belong.

I used to be a constant critic of Fox since he moved to defence but now I believe he has been OK. His heart's in the right place but he's obviously been leaned on by George so he can't make any promises.Only big black mark is over his desire for Turkey to join the EU. Absolutely not in Britain's interest.I don't think really believe though that Liam is really the leader of anything. He might make a competent minister but a charismatic leader with a significant following? I don't think so. Which is a good thing. Overweening personal ambition and factionalism wrecked the party in the 80's and 90's, let's not see it happen again.

Has anyone heard the rumour that the BBC are going to apologise on air tomorrow for jumphreys treatment of the PM?

I believe that Fox was the only member of the opposition front bench to have the guts to speak the unspeakable, by saying that, as a last resort, he would be prepared to consider withdrawal from the EU. I suspect that even he, given the Cameronian climate of cabinet concensus, might now regret or renege upon this statement, but if he does not, the Tories one day may have good cause to thank him.
Both Hague and Cameron are treating their would be voters with contempt by pretending that that they would attempt to renegotiate the UK's relationship with the EU.
Indeed, they might well make a token "attempt" well knowing that, from the outset this was doomed to failure, save, possibly, but doubtfully, for a few very minor and meaningless face saving concessions, which they would doubtless hail as a triumph of negotiation.

A renegotiation would not only be alien to the entire EU Project, but even in the unlikely event that this would actually be considered, would require the consent of every other member state. Needless to say the chorus of "us too" from the smaller states would be deafening, whilst France's response would almost certainly be a wee rather than an oui.

On the other hand, an amicably negotiated withdrawal from the EU, as opposed to an acrimonious one, is certainly a realistic, even if remote possibility. But this will only exist if our own future government front bench openly endorses this as a realistic and serious ultimate option.

Semi-off topic:

Has anyone else noticed that conservativehome has gone from one extreme to the other? It used to be infested with ukippers and now its infested with lib dems.

It's strange how the people who are criticising liam fox (although it would be davis if he was voted first) are either

a)people who have never posted on here before
b)people who appeared at just before the local elections
or c) The ususal suspects who never pass up an opportunity to ut the boot in the party.

Half the people criticising fox have probably never even heard of him. As a case and point the comment about liam fox being a career politician.

Fox ran a brilliant leadership campaign and came very close to overtaking DD in the vote among MPs. He would have given Cameron more of a challenge among rank and file members and might have stopped some of the uber modernizing in the process.

John Redwood is intelligent, principled and hard working. Fox is none of these things and continuously smeared Hague, IDS, Howard and Cameron from the front bench whilst scoring few points off Labour. He should be sacked and replaced with someone who has actually served in the real forces, in the field-something Fox has never come close to doing

It never ceases to amuse me how much some people from "Project Cameron Version 1" hate Liam Fox. Fox isn't perfect,and he is backed by the Cardinal's Own Mafia, but at least he is a real tory. You can't deny that. The Leftie fanatics in Central Office are scared of him (you know, the ones that hate the daily mail, don't understand free market economics, and sometimes don't even believe in the nuclear deterrent). Fox is the only one that really keeps them awake at night.

Witness the hysterical reaction above, which has no correlation with anything you will hear in the country or in the party at large.

This left versus right thing does however show something quite important in my opinion, which is the that the press manage to confuse even party members as to who is on what wing in the party. Hague cannot be called under any circumstance "right wing", but he is always portrayed as such by the press. In many respects too, redwood is not very right-wing. He has written Tory-left articles in the past. The same can be said of prominent so-called Wets, who actually should be viewed as being on the right.
We in the conservative party have a very imperfect understanding of our leaders, no thanks to the press, who rarely give us a meaningful portrayal of them.

Whoever is the leader, do what you can. Vote YES to Free Europe at www.FreeEurope.info

Dale, what's worse is when the site gets over-run by English Democrats. Their shrill, racist and divisive language alienates far more people than it attracts.

You say that it was William Hague who persuaded David Cameron not to leave the EPP. Is there evidence that this is the case? It was the most stupid move Cameron has made - breaking a campaign promise so soon in his leadership. It deprived the European parliament of an Opposition, a key element of democratic accountability. A functioning Opposition might have started to provide the parliament with some credibility. From the Party's point of view, it confirmed the suspicions of Eurosceptic voters that the Tories cannot be trusted. They will punish us for it at the European elections, and we will deserve it.

I like Mr Fox very much. I have seen him on Question Time a few times but not recently.A good spokesman who never seems to lose his composure when pressed or interupted in a rude way especially by David Dimbleby.I dont know if he is right or left but he makes a lot of sense to me.

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