Voices of the right

Thanks for your ideas for questions for this month's survey. We'll try and use a good number of them this month or next.

One question will seek to identify the politician who provides the most powerful right wing voice within the Conservative Party - outside of the frontbench.  Right wing is a somewhat unsatisfactory term but we mean it to be a voice associated with the more robust conservative positions on tax, crime, the family and Europe, for example.

We are proposing this list of right-wingers: Graham Brady, Iain Duncan Smith, Michael Fallon, Lord Forsyth, Michael Howard, Edward Leigh, Norman Tebbit, John Redwood, John Whittingdale and Ann Widdecombe.

Have we got the right list?  Who else should be included?

Comments

[nobody]

not Guido Fawkes?

[Will Stobart]

You're missing Ken Clarke.

[Editor]

Thank you Will :-)

And they have to be politicians 'nobody' otherwise the list could include Simon Heffer et al, too.

[R.Baker.]

Nigel Farage should be on that list.

[Duncan]

Philip Davies, David Davies, Bill Cash and David Heathcoat Amory.

[batmantim]

How about Lord Lamont?

[Brett]

Anne Widdecombe lost all credibility when she started advertising pasta on television.

[Alan S]

I think you've got the list about right although I wouldn't have Graham Brady.

[Alan S]

Oooh, what about Lord Lawson because of his position on climate change?

[Andrew Lilico]

"Voices of the right" is a rather different thing from "the most powerful right wing voice within the Conservative Party - outside of the frontbench" in two ways:

a) First "the right" and "member of the Conservative Party" are not synonymous. There might be all kinds of clearly right wing people that would not be acceptable in the Conservative Party - and yet might be acceptable influences *upon* the Conservative Party (so, I don't have in mind the BNP or something, but I might include Peter Hitchens or indeed Nigel Farage).

b) Second, why only politicians? Why not journalists? And if politicians, why Lords? Is Tebbit really so obviously more significant than Heffer - or Dale...or Montgomerie?

This brings me to the thought that the Editor doesn't want himself on the list. Yet I think he almost certainly should be. Certainly by media airtime, press inches, and intellectual influence upon the debate, the Editors dwarfs any of the people he has mentioned with the possible exceptions of Redwood and IDS (and within a couple of years even those seem likely to be overtaken).

So, I nominate: The Editor.

[Lee Rotherham]

Dan Hannan MEP - a prominent parliamentarian but also widely read because of his blog and Telegraph column.

Mark Field MP - a principled, plain-speaking MP who represents a constituency that is one of the powerhouses of the Conservative Party.

[Dan Hassett]

I'd second Dan Hannan for the list!

[London Tory]

I was an admirer of David Heathcoat Amory, until I read Dawn Butler MP's comments about his reported remarks on the House of Commons terrace recently.

IDS seems to have tacked over to the Left of the Party in recent years.

How about Douglas Carswell, the one MP with the balls to put his head above the parapet over Gorbals Mick ?

[Dontmakemelaugh]

Posted by: Andrew Lilico | April 28, 2008 at 19:50

"a) First "the right" and "member of the Conservative Party" are not synonymous. There might be all kinds of clearly right wing people that would not be acceptable in the Conservative Party - and yet might be acceptable influences *upon* the Conservative Party (so, I don't have in mind the BNP or something, but I might include Peter Hitchens or indeed Nigel Farage)".

Andrew Lilico has wandered off from the proposal into a world of his own, the proposal is:
"One question will seek to identify the politician who provides the most powerful right wing voice within the Conservative Party - outside of the frontbench." Peter Hitchens, I am glad to say, does not qualify - he nor Farage are members of the Conservative Party. Hitchens is only imho a paper tiger.

Andrew continues inter alia
"............... that the the Editors dwarfs any of the people he has mentioned with the possible exceptions of Redwood and IDS (and within a couple of years even those seem likely to be overtaken).

So, I nominate: The Editor.

Posted by: Andrew Lilico | April 28, 2008 at 19:50

Well I expect, Andrew that when the editor calls for nominations for left-wingers you will be (I was about to say will be right up there, but it would be the wrong terminology) so it will have to be Left up there. The editor, as far as I am aware, is not an MP any more than I am.

[Tory Boy]

Greg Clark...

seriously the guy should be given a more prominent shadow position..

[Buckinghamshire Tory]

I agree with Alan S. Nigel Lawson should be included.
He was an influential member of Margaret Thatcher's government, and his contributions to the political debate are valuable even today.

[Malcolm Dunn]

It's a bit bankrupt isn't it. No figures on the right of the parliamentary party are really asserting themselves at the moment.A couple for the future though Dan Hannan I think will play a significant role in days to come and the most interesting debates being launched within the Conservative party are those associated with Iain Duncan Smith. If we get into government I hope both will lead and win debates close to their hearts not just within the Conservative Party but within the country at large.

[comstock]

IDS doesn't belong on that list, IMHO. Unlike the others social justice seems to be something he cares about. Even I agree with some things he says!

Tebbit remains pretty nasty, but is now marginal. Andrew Rossindell (ex-Monday-Club) is perhaps the most right wing MP, with his fellow ex-Monday-clubber Angela Watkinson a possible rival.

Then you've got the Wintertons of course. Leigh you've spotted but also Brazier, Greg Hands and youngster Stephen Crabb all of whom are firmly anti Europe, anti gay, hang 'em beat 'em flog 'em godbotherers who like killing foxes.

But Rossindell gets my vote.

[Nick]

This is essentially a list of the socially illiberal Conservatives, in which case I'd include every Tory who voted against the Civil Partnerships bill but for Edward Leigh's wrecking ammendment. Hopefully all of these people will be gone soon.

[Dontmakemelaugh]

I agree with the comment made and Posted by: Malcolm Dunn | April 28, 2008 at 21:43

Comstock is wrong: just because IDS believes in social justice (along with Norman Tebbit) does not mean that he does not hold views associated with right of centre - he does. It is great shame that he was ditched as leader. At this moment in time I will not be voting for Dave, but more about that later and on the appropriate topic for debate.

[Veritas]

Michael Fallon: effective, high profile, intellectual and feared.

[comstock]

I'm about to make you laugh, dontmakemelaugh, but I sometimes think IDS has more in common with very old Labour (i.e. the 1945 lot) than with the Thatcherite right.

And as for Tebbit caring about social justice...er...dont make me laugh!!

This was the 'get on yer bike guy' remember?

[VOTE BORIS!]

Get a life Comstock!

And all Labourites are Communist scum who want to send us to Gulags and make our grandparents "dissappear".

You have all the political debating skills of a petulant 6 year old, which of course, makes you a typical socialist.

[comstock]

all Labourites are Communist scum who want to send us to Gulags and make our grandparents "dissappear".

err, yes.....

And you've the nerve to suggest *my* debating skills are on a par with a "petulant 6 year old"!!!!

[Jonathan]

Mark Field and Greg Hands.

Two MPs not afraid to tell the press they believe in something

[R.Baker.]

Bob Spink MP,he's much further to the right than anyone isn't he?

[Dontmakemelaugh]

Comments:
I'm about to make you laugh, dontmakemelaugh, but I sometimes think IDS has more in common with very old Labour (i.e. the 1945 lot) than with the Thatcherite right.

And as for Tebbit caring about social justice...er...dont make me laugh!!

This was the 'get on yer bike guy' remember?

Posted by: comstock | April 29, 2008 at 07:56

I feel that there would be little point in pursuing this debate so I will finish with the following points and leave Comstock to mangle the facts.

1.IDS was one of the very few to vote against the left-wing Major, Ken Clarke & Co vote against the pro EU Maastricht treaty.
2.IDS was interested in the Australian idea of having certain categories of immigrants contained not on the British mainland but elsewhere whilst their claims to enter Britain were investigated.
3. IDS wanted the functioning and financing of the left-wing, pro EU BBC investigated by a committee. His leadership was partly destroyed by an the BBC employee, Crick and finished of by the left- wing members in his party and the media still in love with Blair
4. He was against repealing S.22 (the law [preventing the promoting of homosexuality in schools).

None of the above indicate that IDS has much in common with Labour, New or otherwise. Cameron is to the left of IDS - I was happy with IDS, although he made some tactical mistakes. Comstock makes the mistake that those of the Right are incapable of having a social conscience.

I believe you misquote Lord Tebbit. He was referring to his father being out of work in the 1930's and having to get on his bike to find work.
Tebbit believes, along with IDS, that one of the most effective ways of promoting social improvements is in wealth creation and that too much emphasis on welfare will sap the moral and energy of the recipients.
Wealth creation is now performing miracles in India, China and Brazil and will leave governments able to improve the lot of many.

Comstock does IDS an injustice by inferring that he is a socialist and Lord Tebbit by implication heartless. Those are my final words on the subject except to say the left-winger Mao Se Tung, that well known social conscience, brought famine and poverty to China.

[comstock]

Those are my final words on the subject except to say the left-winger Mao Se Tung, that well known social conscience, brought famine and poverty to China.

Pathetic comment, don'tmakemelaugh. I too have no desire to continue this particular debate with you.

[Editor]

Thanks for these comments. I'm just finalising these questions now. I've added Lord Lawson and Dan Hannan.

[Graeme Archer]

Too late I know but I think that IDS inclusion on the list is jarring. Social Justice isn't a "rightwing" thing (we all have our Pavlovian reaction to that term, I'm sure, some positive, some negative): in fact, I'd go further, and say that I think the CSJ/IDS Social Justice agenda is one of the few which offers a united and distinctive Tory view of society (we can argue about the degree to which social action is influenced by religiosity another day).