Bob Spink becomes UKIP's only MP

Just a short while after he lost the Tory whip, Bob Spink has decided to join UKIP.

Mr Spink told The Telegraph:

"I am delighted to join the Ukip team, helping to fight for Britain's interests in Europe and for better policy on the issues that really matter to people. I have been increasingly disappointed with the Tory Party's failure to be honest with the public on a wide range of issues like pensions, crime, immigration and defence. "Dishonesty over the EU constitution is the Tories' greatest failure.  They heap criticism on other parties, but refuse to remove the constitution if they ever get power.  The public see this as opportunistic and hypocritical, but sadly, it is typical of Westminster politics.  It is little wonder the public hold politicians in such contempt."

Some predicted that Mr Spink would join UKIP but he initially denied it.  At 11.14am on 17th March Bob Spink left this comment on ConservativeHome:

"I am a principled Conservative and intend to stand as that at the next election.  I can be more influential as an Independent Tory, pushing for stronger policy on pensions, Europe, crime and immigration, and against corruption and bad local planning decisions and I will redouble my fight for local infrastructure and for Castle Point people... no change there then!"

Mr Spink also spoke on Radio 4's Today programme earlier today.

11am: Jim McConalogue on CentreRight congratulates Bob Spink on his defection.

Comments

[bexie]

He got kicked out because he was unprincipled, and came across as oily this morning. When pressed on the fact he was elected as a Conservative he was at pains to say that he was elected as Bob Spink's. I trust he will be refunding the local office for all the election material and canvassing that was done.

[Cleethorpes Rock]

Well done Bob, a good analysis of where the Tory Party is going wrong- we're not talking enough about Europe! If only we just banged on a bit louder about Europe, we'd get in next time for sure.

[Edward Huxley]

A traitor who has let the side down or a brave man who puts country before party?
When Shaun Woodward defected Blair gave him a safe seat and a job. He is now Northern Ireland Secretary.

One thing is certain. Bob Spink knows UKIP cannot grant him any favours, so I say three cheers for him. A patriot and an honest man.

[Dale]

oh dear!

[WestminsterWatcher]

So that's why Nigel Farage was busy on his phone in Westminster last night!

[R.Baker.]

Others will be in line to follow him,and,rightly so.The Conservative Government introduced this country to a Common Market and ever since it has defended an EU idea that has corruptly removed everything that wasn't nailed down from day one.The country wants its assets back,along with its sovereignity and everything else that has been covertly stolen from these shores.
More patriots and people with conscience will follow Bob Spink,regardless of the number of career numpties who frequent this place and our ranks in the Conservative Party.
Bob Spink MP,UKIP,and,a man of honour.

[Justin Hinchcliffe]

"...helping to fight for Britain's interests in Europe..." Is he joking? UKIP want out!

[Justin Hinchcliffe]

I should have added thier first and last MP (-:

[Caecilius]

I think that he was pretty shabbily treated in his constituency and Dave / CCHQ stood by as he's clearly the wrong, gender, race and sex for Cameron's Conservatives. I doubt many will follow as they scent a ministerial box in the offing, but good on him for doing what he believes to be right.

As for some of the posts, we get terribly excited when people defect to us as people of principle etc., so why can it also not be so the other way around?

[Sammy Finn]

They are welcome to him.

[Don Hoyle]

I have never shied away from saying we should pull out of Europe and renegotiate the Trade deal we were supposed to be signing up to with the 'Common Market'. I have always been repelled as much by the sheer lies told to us over Europe as by the disaster that membership has proved to be over the years.

My problem over defections, though, has always been that if a bloke defects to another party he (or she) should stand down and fight a by-election. That, to my mind, is the only honourable thing to do. Never mind that UKIP have the right idea of pulling out (Justin Hinchcliffe!).

Voters put a chap in because they agree with his views (or, more likely, the national party's views). Consequently, no matter how right or in line he/she is, the national party will fight like a tiger over her cubs to get the 'traitor' out. So you can't expect the chap to stand down. Nevertheless, I still feel a twinge of uneasiness, no matter how good the cause.

[Craig Barrett]

"Well done Bob, a good analysis of where the Tory Party is going wrong- we're not talking enough about Europe! If only we just banged on a bit louder about Europe, we'd get in next time for sure."

Excellent use of sarcasm, Cleethorpes Rock...

[powellite]

MP nobody's heard of joins party nobody votes for. I'm sure he's got a big future.

[R.Baker.]

Others will be lining up to follow Bob Spink,the HoC will be a bit different from now on,and a lot different after others follow Mr Spink.Exposure of the corrupt EU in the HoC will be pleasant to watch and create quite a stir,especially if he drops a name or two into the odd debate that links MPs to being anti British in their push to hand the country over to the EU which was first given life by the Conservatives,shame on us.

[IRJMilne]

Justin Hinchcliffe: he said "Europe", not "the EU superstate". Not the same thing. One is a geographical area, one is a fledgling supra-national state, or seems to want to become one.

Meanwhile - I doubt that this will herald any great breakthrough for UKIP. Speaking from a trenchantly eurosceptic position, I think it is worth giving the Conservatives a chance to prove that they can do something about the flow of power away from the British people and to the Brussels elite.

[ukiptrollsgohome]

I wish all the UKIP trolls would defect from ConHome

[Mark Hudson]

IRJMilne, I would refer you back to Cameron's lie over withdrawing from the EPP for the real conservative attitude to the EU. Enough said.

[Daniel Hannan]

An anorak observation, but Bob Spink isn't UKIP's first MP. George Gardiner sat as the UKIP member for Reigate and Banstead between his deselection and the 1997 general election.

[Gospel of Enoch]

Good to see Camerloon's policies producing concrete reults! Rejoice, Rejoice!

[Richard ROBINSON]

Didn't George sit as an MP for the Referendum Party?

[Editor]

Was George Gardiner UKIP or Referendum Party, Dan? I thought the latter.

Lots of UKIP trolls here, yes! I think people can assume that unfamiliar names are likely to be UKIP "visitors"!

[Don Hoyle]

Lest anyone questions my credentials, UKIP are putting a candidate AGAINST me in Milton Keynes, where I am seeking re-election as a councillor. No troll I.

[Chad Noble]

What sour grapes from Tim!

Of course the headline is technically correct, but "Bob Spink becomes UKIP's first MP" is obviously a more accurate title.

[Nigel Twocock]

Could I just point out that, as a lifelong UKIP member, I am completely mad?

[Tony Makara]

The fact that UKIP is a party of disaffection is the reason why they will never be anything more than a peripheral influence in British politics. Of course many of us share their concerns over Europe but the way to effect change is through working within a party that has a realistic chance of being in power.

UKIP's ideas on free-trade are a paradox and the party lacks any sort of mature philosophical world-view. In fact UKIP are the classic party of the angry young man, big broom politics, brimming with vitriol. It is a party of antithesis, its appeal lies with the politically immature. The conduct of UKIP supporters in Conservative forums serves as a perfect example of such tantrum-politics.

I would like to see us leave the EU and trade with the world on our own terms, however the only way to do that is make the case for change within the Conservative party. I respect UKIP's patriotism but to be effective it needs to be channeled in the right direction.

[ukiptrollsgohome]

Tony Mak: "In fact UKIP are the classic party of the angry young man"

Angry old man more like!

[Man in a Shed]

Dave could have trouble in Essex. People make up their own minds over there and one or two alternatives to the Conservative party are starting to make inroads.

The specific points are on the EU and England.

Action is needed to see this of with an English Parliament and withdrawal from the EPP ( any MEPs who refuse should be disowned ).

[Buckinghamshire Tory]

Powellite at 09:41 is spot on.

[Tony Makara]

ukiptrollsgohome, the fact is UKIP can never win the debate on Euruope if they are standing outside of the debating chamber shouting and waving a placard. The serious elements within UKIP need to make their case within the Conservative party.

[R.Baker.]

Seems Mr Makara is a little miffed because one of us has moved over to UKIP,thats too bad,but we'd better get used to it as more will follow, as well as some from LAB and LIB-DEMs I expect.Let us look at ourselves and remember that Mr Spink wasn't pushed,he jumped ship of his own accord.Admirable that eh?

[Saltmaker]

"Could I just point out that, as a lifelong UKIP member, I am completely mad?"
-- Nigel Twocock

... but the girls love you ;-)

[Chad Noble]

Since he became leader, Nigel has delivered UKIP's first members of both the HoL and HoC.

Not bad in less than 2 years and will clearly give UKIP a boost particularly when you consider that spot-on satire of Cameron on HeadCases linked here.

[Chad Noble]

"The serious elements within UKIP need to make their case within the Conservative party."

Why would someone who supports eu withdrawal join a party with so many euphile MEPS and a leader who bans his front bench from suporting withdrawal?

Also, why would someone who opposes state funding of political parties join the party that proposed it!

Tony, it is fair to call UKIP a pressure group, in fact it is fair to call *all* opposition parties pressure groups really, isn't it?

[David]

UKIP shows the way; with courage, the Tories can too obtain 7% of the vote......

[curbishly]

Letter to the local paper the Evening Echo, Castle Point edition.

"....

....PS I left UKIP because the local branch was inhabited by nutters who spent believed everything was a big conspiracy by the Bilderbergers and then held meeting to proove the moon landings were faked!"

Oh so true.

[Tim Roll-Pickering]

The fact that even Daniel Hannan can't remember the George Gardiner case correctly shows that Bob Spink will soon be forgotten by all. And Spink isn't principled - like Gardiner he left over selection issues, not the party's stance on Europe (and that *is* short hand for the EU). Tring to pretend otherwise is deceit.

[Thatcherite]

The vitriol aimed at Bob Spink (from usual suspects like Bexie, Justine and their fellow EU fanatics), is predictable. Bob Spink worked hard to win back Castle Point after losing it in Major's 1997 landslide defeat.

There is a well-organised wet faction that has been trying to get Bob out for years. Cameron and McLoughlin, a notorious Europhile wet when chairman of the YCs, finally colluded with them and Bob's defection is the result.

Bob has a strong reputation as a constituency MP and will fight hard to hold onto his seat. Conservative activists will defect with Bob to help hold onto his seat. Priority Listers should be aware that defeat in Castle Point will destroy the career of the Conservative candidate.

[Chad Noble]

"...nutters ...Oh so true.

Indeed! And 44% of tories on Iain's site chose UKIP as their second preference...

Not such different animals after all! In fact, some might say a little too close for comfort, hence the outright hostility towards them. :-)

[Matt Davies]

Looks like Farage's strategy is working. UKIP now have MEPs, MPs, councilors and Lords.

Slowly but surely, UKIP are building and without having to worry about the EU telling them what to do, can produce policies that the people actually want.

I'll always vote UKIP in EU elections. When the Libertarian party aren't running (which will be most of the time for now), they will get my vote in domestic elections too.

The Tories have always given away power to the EU and are now a socialist consensus party. More and more people are waking up to this fact and shunning them.

Your days are numbered LibLabCon. Now is the time for any MPs that have an ounce of principle to show it. Either join one of the new, freedom based parties, or go down with the rotten socialist consensus.

[David Eyles]

The problem is not so much the defection itself, but the cause of it. The difficulty is the vaccuum of policy on the EU within Tory leadership. The damage that this did in the last General Election to Conservative votes in the South West was immense. And yet Central Office at the time dismissed UKIP as a bunch of irrelevent headcases. At the time, I was having to drive around a lot of Devon and Somerset. UKIP posters were everywhere and they polled a lot of votes.

Here in South Dorset, the number of UKIP votes were roughly the same as the Labour majority. Let there be no mistake about it - if David Cameron really wants to be the next Prime Minister, as well as doing all the right things for social policy and attracting the 20 to 30 year olds sufficiently to vote for him, he must deal convincingly with the EU question. Bob Spink's defection is a warning shot across his bows.

[Justin Hinchcliffe]

"Since he became leader, Nigel has delivered UKIP's first members of both the HoL and HoC" - Chad Knoble.

None of the were elected, where they? And you have the nerve to call the EU anti-democratic.

Glasshouses, stones, throwing, re-organise.

PS. Bexie, a friend, is anything BUT a Europhile

[Lee Chamberlain]

If Bob Spink genuinely believes in UKIP policies he should resign and restand in a by-election, instead of betraying the trust of the people who voted him in as a Conservative.

Of course we all know why he won't, he'd be out on his ear. Another reason to look forward to the next GE!

[David]

"go down with the rotten socialist consensus"

The amusing thing is that people on the Guardian talk boards are complaining about the rotten Thatcherite consensus......

Rather suggests that the ideologues on both sides are wrong.........

[Chad Noble]

*cough* Justine, would you like me to quote back your welcoming commments of europhile LibDems defectors to the Tories....

[Lee Chamberlain]

Oh and I forgot to add my first reaction to this story..

Bob who?

[Felixstowe Fiddler]

Castle Point was one of the few constituencies in 2005 where UKIP kept its deposit, polling 7.5%. I donb't know how popular a constituency MP he is, but I think he'll be lucky to keep that level of support.
As for Tory candidates for the seat: How about Stephen Castle, who contested Ipswich in 1997, is an Essex county councillor within the constituency, and a former constituency chairman.

[Felixstowe Fiddler]

I thought George Gardiner defected to the Referendum Party, not UKIP.
Perhaps Dan Hannan would like to put his name forward as candidate for Castle Point next time.

[Thatcherite]

I was wondering how long it would take for Stephen Castle to be proposed as the Conservative candidate. Castle was a prominent member of the Tory Reform Group's Eurofanatic faction that ran the YCs in the 1980s. A lot of his Thatcherite opponents would swamp Castle Point just to keep Castle out of the Commons.

[Justin Hinchcliffe]

Yes, I have been welcoming Lib Dems to the Conservatives. Ideally, people should resign their seat and contest by-elections when changing parties.

Why do you persist in calling me "Justine"? Homophobia, Chad?

[Thatcherite]

"If Bob Spink genuinely believes in UKIP policies he should resign and restand in a by-election, instead of betraying the trust of the people who voted him in as a Conservative."

Fair point but Lib Dem defectors to the Tories should do the same. But we never hear that from the EU fanatic hypocrites on this site. Instead they supported that opportunist Sajjid Karim's automatic selection in North West region.

[ukiptrollsgohome]

Funny how UKIP has got the word Independence in its name

It is about as independent from the Conservative Party as a nasty case of the clap is from its victim

[Chad Noble]

"Why do you persist in calling me "Justine"? Homophobia, Chad?"

No, just saw that you had decided to replace argument with childish name-calling (a very mature 'Knoble' -lol) and responded in kind.

Why not cut it out and focus on the arguments?

[Gospel of Enoch]

Curbishly: The only thing most in UKIP believe to be faked was Camerloon's pledge to "quit the EPP in months, not years" if elected.

[Mad Stroble]

Yes let's stop this childishness now

[Gloy Plopwell]

This will split the votes in Castle Point, and we Lib dems can win it.

[Justin Hinchcliffe]

Gloy Plopwell is a joke - if he or she actually exists.

[Patricia]

In many of the above comments I detect a certain annoyance that a MP has left the Tories and joined UKIP.

We should remember that one of Britain's most famous conservatives put getting results above membership of a particular party and changed parties. I refer to Winston Churchill.

Defection is probably going to be more effective than trying to get Cameron to take a stronger line following the Labour Party's ratting on its referendum promise.

It's interesting to note that you tend to get more truthful political comments when MPs don't have to trim what they say on account of the party whips etc.

Many Tories, who are supporting the status quo within the Conservative Party, would jump for joy if Cameron would promise to give us a referendum when he gets into power - and so would many uncommitted voters!

A few more defectioins would work wonders with David Cameron on this issue.

[Bob Jenkins]

Bob - Hang your head in shame. Not only have your burnt your bridges with the Party nationally, but also with all of us who supported you, believed in you and cheered you on.

[ACT]

As a Traditionalist who is sure Cameron is leading us to defeat at the next election (which is his one great crime - I'd forgive him more or less anything else), I think he should pray Spink *doesn't* cause a by-election, as we'd lose. And then some.

As for Spink himself - he was forced out by a putsch in his association, that Cameron and Central Office sat back and let happen precisely because Bob was an unwanted Thatcherite. As has been said, if this had been happening in a favoured son's seat - say Surrey Heath playing up again - they'd have been firmly slapped. So yet again, Dave's reaping what he sowed.

[Rod Sellers]

This is not really about UKIP - it is about the failure of Cameron's Conservatives to give a voice to the 'Love Europe - Hate the EU' majority in the Party and Country.

All power to Stuart Wheeler today in his High Court action

[Tony Makara]

Chad Noble, just consider the tactics here. Do you think it would be easier to work within the Conservative party, putting your case, trying to win over the party to adopt a different approach on Europe, or is it easier to try and convince the whole country? The arguments against Europe have to be established at party level before they can go national.

UKIP does not have the intellectual bedrock or the financial backing necessary to mount even a minor bid for power. If you want to effect change you have to work within the existing framework to achieve anything. David Cameron has proven that conviction and good organization can change the direction of a political party. That is what UKIP supporters should aim for, not entryism, but to take their views into the mainstream. There is a great deal of Euroscepticism in the Conservative party, however it is not well organized, certainly not organized enough to challenge the party's policy-makers.

Anger and frustration often cloud the mind and hand the intitative over to calm, staid opponents. The justified ire that UKIP supporters feel over Europe needs to be channeled in the right direction. Work within the Conservative party where you have a realistic chance of building support for your objectives. Currently you are only preaching to the converted.

[Chad Noble]

"Chad Noble, just consider the tactics here. Do you think it would be easier to work within the Conservative party"

Do you know what Tony, it is something I have considered for a while, and concluded that this could not be possible whilst the Tory Party leadership remains so openly hostile and insulting to UKIP and so authoritarian in refusing senior Tories to openly support eu withdrawal.

With such a clear overlap in beliefs and support, the two parties should work together, instead Cameron lovebombs euphile LibDems whilst publicly insulting a party that is clearly the next nearest in views for a large number of Tory Party members.

Cameron's mistake was to think that he could crush ukip and those who support eu withdrawal instead of embracing a broad church party that indeed lets change occur from the grassroots not as dictated by the leadership.

UKIP is an organisational shambles but persists despite this. This is one flame that Cameron cannot extinquish.

But the olive branch clearly has to first come from Cameron. No-one is asking him to support eu withdrawal, just to stop allowing it to openly flourish within the Tory party as any other view.

I am not holding my breath.

[Jack Stone]

Bob Spink will be an ex UKIP MP after the next election because he will be rightly voted out by his constitutants who he as betrayed by this decision. They voted for a Conservative Member of Parliament not a UKIP one.
Mind you at the end of the day who cares, its just one more nutter jumping ship and joining there fellow nutters in UKIP!

[Thatcherite]

There are many Thatcherite candidates who were kicked off The Approved List by Shireen Ritchie and her Wimmin2Lose cabal. If UKIP gets it act together it can attract those purged candidates and field them against EUphile Tories such as Maples, Clarke, Gummer, Taylor and Yeo. The Conservative Party will pay a high price for Cameron's petty factionalism, PC candidates and selection fixing.

[Russell Long]

The urge to shout 'traitor' and pillory Spink is natural, I suppose, but the Conservatives should ask themselves why a lifelong Tory has shifted allegiance. Spink is giving up the enormous Tory party machine for what is, and let's be blunt about this, a volunteer group with little spare money.
It isn't a decision that anyone makes lightly. Spink didn't have to join UKIP, he could have just been independent and stood down at the next election.
I doubt that there will be, as UKIP naturally hopes, other defections. Spink was in a unique position, battling his own constituency party and the Tory leadership.
Still, it would make for Interesting Times, with the right-wing Tories splitting off and New and Old Labour doing the same.

[johnC]

'a wide range of issues like pensions, crime, immigration and defence'

These are issues on which I have no problem with the Conservative party at all.

Had he mentioned tax, public spending, Grammar Schools and the West Lothian Question - on all of which the present leadership is deeply disappointing - I could have understood it.

[Gwendolyn]

Seeing Spink on the box at lunchtime saying how pleased he was to join the UKIP team I was puzzled, I didn't think they had enough for a team

[Steve]

UKIP will never get anyone elected to the Commons. The best they will ever be able to do is pick up the scraps from Tory infighting. Farage's skill is to score tiny insignificant victories while the real battle is elsewhere. Spink won't even be an MP after the next election. Big achievement.

[Mark Hudson]

Will someone please explain the schizophrenic attitude of the Conservative Party on this one? All sorts of welcoming noises are made when someone defects to it (person of principle, shows Dave is right etc, etc.). However, when it's the other way around, all hell breaks lose?

I have a great deal of sympathy on the whole by-election argument, but a bit of consistency please.

[Henry Mayhew - 'kipper]

I've magisterially boycotted ConHome for six months in protest at its Zionism. However, I did decide that you all deserved a rousing

UP THE UKIP!

Henners

[Bruce Shaxson]

Justin Hinchcliffe is correct,for John Spink
has no authority whatever to represent UKIP to the Conservative constuents who elected him.There must be a proper constituency election, when Mr. Spink would rightly be given the boot and not allowed to represent anyone in Parliament. Most UKIP MEP's should leave their much cherished Brussels gravy train for the lesser one in Westminster, thus proving their worth to the people. Let us fill Westminster with all UKIP MP's., then we could leave the EU and rightly call Britain democratic once again.

[Chad Noble]

Welcome back Henners... G&T next week? :-)

[ukipwebmaster]

Bob has Cojones.

[Tony Makara]

"boycotted ConHome for six months in protest at its Zionism"

How on earth can anyone accuse contributors to ConHome of being Zionists because they call for even-handed reporting on middle-east affairs? There are Zionists in the world, those of the Kach mentality, but they are not to be found here.

[woodentop]

"Zionism"? What on earth has that got to do with a thread discussing Bob Spink? I am very confused and think I will go back to sleep again!

[Yet Another Anon]

George Gardiner defected to the Referendum Party who unlike UKIP were a single issue party on the issue of the Euro, as soon as the Conservative Party pledged not to switch to the Euro without a referendum the party was dissolved, now of course if the Conservative Party pledged to withdraw from the EU then the major (but not only reason) for UKIP continuing to exist would go, but UKIP though was never solely about membership of the EU and there are differences over other issues.

UKIP though is not solely about people who switched from the Conservative Party, just as the SDP was not solely about people who switched from Labour and originally the Labour Party was not just about people who had started to give up on the Liberal Party delivering what they wanted.

[Philip]

I have mixed feelings.

There seems to be understandable lack in trust of David Cameron on the EU for understandable reasons: e.g. the delay in implementing the promise to pull MEPs out of the EPP; appointing eu-phile Ken Clarke to lead the Democracy Task Force and who has proposed ditching what I thought was the promise to only allow only MPs representing English constituencies to legislate on English matters. Will he really in the end return powers back from Brussels? Will he just fall in line with the establishment?

On the other hand, (I hope) Mr Cameron is still more EU-sceptic than this Labour government. His efforts to form the new group of MEPs to work to reform the EU into a looser community of nations (or whatever), although not withdrawal, is surely better than being ever forced into further integration and surrender of powers under Labour. Which is what every vote for UKIP helps to achieve, Mr Spink. I think I recall that if it were not for UKIP, we may have won sufficient seats in 2005 to deprive Labour of their majority. Would we then have had the Constitution, sorry Treaty, forced on us?

[Malcolm Dunn]

A rather useless gesture on behalf of Bob Spink in my opinion.I suspect he'll soon be as forgotten about as that other defector who left the party for personal gain rather than principle, Quentin Davies.
Nice to see some of the old UKIPPERS are still alive,they'd been so quiet I thought they were all dead.Hiya in particular to Henry Mayhew.

[Thatcherite]

"Seeing Spink on the box at lunchtime saying how pleased he was to join the UKIP team I was puzzled, I didn't think they had enough for a team".

UKIP has more MEPs than some EU member states, Gwendolyn!

Perhaps Bruce Shaxson can tell us who "John Spink" is. I suspect that Bruce is just another lazy and thick Europhile troll from Millbank.

[Chad Noble]

lol Mad Malc. As dead as you trying to sell ad space for Total Politics...

[Thatcherite]

Iain Dale's Ashcroft-funded ego-trip should be called Total Bo1*ocks!

[Willy Humbold]

Free Europe Constitution is better than the Treaty:
1. You can read it.
2 You can vote about it.
Vote YES or NO at www.FreeEurope.info

[Edward]

"Rotten Socialist/Thatcherite Consensus"

In matters relating to the EU, that is exactly what we have in the party leaderships and you can add the Lib-Dems in too.
We are effectively in a one-party state with three groups of the consensus pretending to be different - rather like one brewery supplying three different brands of beer from the one brew.

Bob Spink will, at least, highlight this situation,

[Tim Worstall]

"UKIP's ideas on free-trade are a paradox and the party lacks any sort of mature philosophical world-view. In fact UKIP are the classic party of the angry young man, big broom politics, brimming with vitriol. It is a party of antithesis, its appeal lies with the politically immature. The conduct of UKIP supporters in Conservative forums serves as a perfect example of such tantrum-politics.

I would like to see us leave the EU and trade with the world on our own terms, however the only way to do that is make the case for change within the Conservative party. I respect UKIP's patriotism but to be effective it needs to be channeled in the right direction. "

Tony Makara: given your interestingly odd (I'm being extremely polite here) views on trade please do stay in the Tory party. We in UKIP really wouldn't want to be associated with them.

[Tony Makara]

Tim Worstall, facinating to see that you are trying to forge a career out of following me around the internet and passing your infernal judgment on my calls to support British entrepreneurs and to help British business secure access to British makets. Interesting also that you have been so keen to arrest the development my ideas that you have been running around the web and publishing my thoughts on hundreds of websites, I doubt if Marilyn Monroe had a better publicity agent! I have had a plethora of e-mails from people who support the views that I express and that you reproduced all over the internet.

The fact is UKIP is a sideshow with no real strategy for power. The organization has some fair grievances over Europe, concerns that most sensible people would support. However UKIP's claim to be a party that supports independence is completely at variance with its ideas on trade and making the UK further dependent on imported goods that we are quite capable of producing for ourselves. Sterling is going to collapse in value and then we will see how expensive these cheap imports can become, unless of course we set high interest rates to support the pound and keep those imports cheap. However that carries an even higher price doesn't it?

[Gloy Plopwell]

We Lib dems had stupendous momentum in Castle point in the may 1993 county council elections, when we were in a three way contest with Tories and labour. This news about dr Spink is fabulous news for us, because it will split the Tory vote.

But if that failes, there's another alternative. Maybe Robert Spink could be a joint candidate with us Lib dems, and then we could win it.

[Chad Noble]

" I have had a plethora of e-mails from people who support the views that I express "

What about closing the doors to the outside trading world? Those supportive emails could only come from BNP supporters.

Thanks for highlighting UKIP's internationalist, outward looking ideas on trade though, Tony.

(btw I am not a member of UKIP nor any party, so have no agenda to push)

[Tony Makara]

Chad Noble, I've never said we should not trade with the wider world, only that we should be producing more for ourselves and that government should make it profitable for British entrepreneurs to supply the British market. Its clear that yourself and Tim Worstall are very passionate about supporting the business ethic. So am I. The way I see it the more money our entrepreneurs can make, the more jobs they can create and the more wealth they can add to the nation. So my motto is 'let them make money, let them make lots of money'. However the British entrepreneur can't make money when the very markets he relies on are opened up to competitor nations. I don't see foreign countries as being partners, I see them as being competitors, and the job of British government ought to be about helping British business to corner and dominate markets, particularly our domestic market.

On the subject of UKIP, you may feel that supporting UKIP gives you a sense of empowerment which means you don't have to kowtow to the current Conservative line on Europe. However do you honestly believe that UKIP will be in a position to challenge for power? I too support a full withdrawal from the EU, however I recognize that something so monumental can only be achieved by working within the existing political framework. Political parties can change policy and direction if enough people with enough will and organization move to bring about that change. Its far better to lead the argument from within than from the outside. UKIP will never form a government or be in a position to change government policy on Europe while it is is on the periphery of British politics. Surely you must see that the Europhiles are handed the initiative within the Conservative party while UKIP exists? My advice to you and Tim Worstall would be to re-join the Conservative party, use your energy and your sense of conviction to make the case against the EU.

We all know that the EU experiment is going to hit the buffers and when it does the Conservative party needs to have people in its ranks ready and able to make the case and build the level of grassroot support for withdrawal. EU membership has brought us little of value and a look at the figures for unemployment and inflation since 1973 is a real eye-opener. We need to leave the EU, but to do so we need a large manufacturing and agricultural base to supply our needs and to corner export markets around the world. If we left today, without that home-based productive capacity to rely on, we would face shortages, the economic strategy has to be right, an independent Britain must be in a position to stand on its own feet, after 35 years of decline there is much to re-build.

[Chad Noble]

Hi Tony,

Agility is the key. A smaller boat like UKIP is always easier to turn than the Tory Tanker which is pointing so far in the wrong direction, I really don't think it is worth wasting any energy on.

What UKIP needs is its own Lord Ashcroft, imho. With such a person who can provide both more money and organisational skills, I'm sure UKIP would advance particularly quickly and open up politics.

Without it, it will continue to win vital skirmishes though, and more power to its elbow for trying.

Whatever I think of the very poor and amateurish way UKIP is currently run though, I believe they have by far the best leader, and I could never join be disloyal to Nigel and join a rival party.

If you really want the change you detail, I'd advise you to join UKIP.

[Tim Worstall]

"Tim Worstall, facinating to see that you are trying to forge a career out of following me around the internet and passing your infernal judgment on my calls to support British entrepreneurs and to help British business secure access to British makets. Interesting also that you have been so keen to arrest the development my ideas that you have been running around the web and publishing my thoughts on hundreds of websites, I doubt if Marilyn Monroe had a better publicity agent! I have had a plethora of e-mails from people who support the views that I express and that you reproduced all over the internet."

Eh? I've mentioned your (ahem) "ideas" here, at the Globalisation Institute and on my own blog. That's hardly hundreds. As to career, no, sorry, you take yourself too seriously. I write some 10 or so pieces a day and devoting three to you over a month does not a career make.

As to your ideas about "securing British markets for British producers" you really do seem to be misguided. As Adam Smith pointed out some time ago, the purpose of all production is consumption. You're intending to privilege the producers at the expense of the consumers, which really isn't the point at all.

[Tony Makara]

Tim Worstall, I share your belief in free-enterprise and if I had my way there would be far less state-interference in how business operates. However I also see that we are a nation and not a collection of individual consumers, macroeconomy has to provide the framework for the microeconomy from a national perspective. My great concern is that over dependence on imports leaves us exposed to inflation should our currency devalue, a dangerous scenario, particularly if there is little by way of a British-produced market as an alternative. I want to see a balanced economy with a thriving market of domestic producers and consumers. As you will know imports only stay cheap as long a Sterling is strong, but to keep Sterling strong we are forced to adopt higher interest-rates which means a more stagnant economy and a tougher environment for entrepreneurs and homeowners who need to borrow. Globally this scenario could all be cured for all nations by the adoption of an international currency unit to replace the worlds currencies. Something that I believe will have to happen one day, though perhaps not in our lifetime. Boom and Bust and other contradictions are a direct result of the forex system. However until such a day as we get a world-currency we will have to manage the uncertainty of boom and bust and put pragmatism ahead of free-trade ideology.

[fooler]

But Nigel Farage has just lost another MEP (Knapman this time). He has gone from 12 to 8 in just 4 years. It begs the question, is Farage the most incompetent leader in recent British political history? It's not as if he has to do anything like a normal party leader such as turn up for work.

[Paul Smith]

I used to work with Bob and he was a conman then and also now I imagine .He ALWAYS fiddled his expenses!! Surprise!!