Following Tuesday's debate we have devised a questionnaire to test overall party opinion on next steps for the Conservative Party. Please click here to rate the options.
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Gave up in disgust a few months ago. Just popped back to see whether anything had changed.
Nope.
Still fiddling while Rome (i.e. electoral victory) is sitting on a plate, ripe for the plucking, and all sorts of other mixed metaphors - except that you don't seem to have noticed, nor even care overmuch.
What are the Tories actually for? What is your selling point? What starkly differentiates you (whether in ethics or policies)from the other cynical crooks in parliament?
NuLab may well win the next election by default, no doubt with a reduced turnout and with about 00.1% of the electorate having bothered to turn out to vote. There will be an increase in those who, like me, will vote for minor parties, not because they have any chance of winning any particular seat but because that is the only way of expressing a wish for something different.
Posted by: Ken Stevens | March 13, 2008 at 08:52
I'm with Ken. The Tories appear hopeless even when we have such a useless government and the economy appears on the brink of collapse. Posh, southern and out of touch.
I still think Hague will be the next Tory PM.
Posted by: ren | March 13, 2008 at 09:22
People don't vote because they believe, rightly, that those elected under FPTP - Tories, Lib-Dem or Labour, can't do anything other than rubber stamp with 75% of laws originating in Brussels.
Pledge to change that - by repealing the Treaty of Rome - and explaining why their "gut instincts" are right, i.e. EU is to blame for post-office closures etc., and you'll see a revolution in voter turnout. That would be worth achieving...
Unfortunately, it would require the Tories to be honest about our EU serfdom...
Posted by: Gospel of Enoch | March 13, 2008 at 09:23
It's not vague political theorising that wins elections. It's policies. I've thought long about this, and have come up with the 10 policies which, were Cameron to go into the 2009 election with at the centre of his manifestos, would pretty much guarantee victory.
1) Promise to divide HM Revenue and Customs back into two separate bodies - Inland Revenue and HM Customs and Excise.
2) Repeal the Consolidate Fund Act 2005, stripping the Treasury of the power to issue funds out of the Consolidated Fund.
3) Scrap plans for a Supreme Court of the United Kingdom, restoring its power to the Law Lords.
4) Revoke the Disability Discrimination Act 1995, giving choice back to business.
5) Scrap plans for regional casinos.
6) Replace the rail watchdog group Passenger Focus with a series of geographically separated groups.
7) Revoke all pardons given to soldiers executed for cowardice and other offences during the First World War.
8) Scrap the Consmer Credit Act 2006.
9) Increase the age of candidacy for public elections from 18 to 21.
10) End the proposed Commission on Equality and Human Rights.
Cameron - if you're reading this, you can have those for free. I won't even ask for an honour when you're Prime Minister...
Posted by: Neil Yates | March 13, 2008 at 09:35
Simple
Give the country hope and optimism
Posted by: michael m | March 13, 2008 at 09:39
The question on English votes for English matters should have had a separate question regarding an end to the subsidy of Scotland.
I don't buy into the automatic assumption that Scotland is being subsidised in the manner some seek to portray. Until a I see a balanced argument which includes the rural nature of large parts of Scotland, and the fact that it makes the provision for basic services more expensive combined with a proper audit of wealth generated from that region of the UK this is simple rather unpleasant Scots bashing. All the more cynical because of the fact that senior Labour MP's come from that part of the world.
Posted by: ChrisD | March 13, 2008 at 09:42
The Conservative party needs to offer a radical approach in key areas such as job creation and taxation. A waged public works programme to create jobs for the long-term unemployed and massive tax relief for entrepreneurs in manufacturing and agriculture. The party needs to look beyond the gimmickry of New Deal, Workfare and actually look at setting the conditions for job creation. The party needs to make its mark on history and offer more than just a change of faces in government.
Posted by: Tony Makara | March 13, 2008 at 09:44
Tim/Sam
One slight point of order regarding your list of proposals - arranging for a deirect mail company to mail every house in the country would be hugely expensive -
you're looking at £100 per 400 houses - lets say there are 40m houses - thats £10m!!!
Better spent on full colour, glossy literature in target seats I say!!
Very, very much agree with the proposal regarding spending more in Lib Dem battles.
Posted by: Henry Edward-Bancroft | March 13, 2008 at 10:50
What is the purpose of national government?
At the most fundamental level, it is to ensure the continuance and security of the nation state, on behalf of the citizens of that nation state.
The Her Majesty’s Government from Blenheim, to Waterloo, to Flanders and to El Alamein has delivered the security and continuance of the United Kingdom as a national identity. For three hundred years the United Kingdom has, through a process of gradualistic political and social change, evolved into a strong and successful nation that has provided the template for numerous other nation states in terms of the legislature, executive and judiciary and the rights and responsibilities of citizens.
And yet. In the space of a mere ten years. The Labour party has irrevocably damaged the United Kingdom to such an extent that we can no longer, meaningfully, describe ourselves as a united kingdom. Consequently, our own government, the Labour government, has abandoned describing our country as the UK and is exhorting us to celebrate being British, in the full knowledge that through its own actions, three of the four component parts of Britain, have re-defined themselves in distinct, national terms.
What should the Conservative party do next?
What is the purpose of national government?
At the most fundamental level, it is to ensure the continuance and security of the nation state, on behalf of the citizens of that nation state.
Her Majesty’s Government has failed, spectacularly, to do its duty on behalf of the United Kingdom and has further compounded its failure to ensure the continuance of the United Kingdom by engaging in wars that have significantly increased the external and internal threat to the security of the nation state.
What should the Conservative party do next?
You are up against the most disastrous government in British Parliamentary history. And still we are only 5% ahead?
Posted by: englandism.com | March 13, 2008 at 11:15
[email protected]
Are you serious?
I read the start of your post, then read on expecting policies about reducing govt spending, supporting our Armed Forces, putting police back on the beat and criminals back in prison.
Instead, there was a list made up of the most arcane stuff that most voters will know nothing about, and frankly won't give a monkeys about:
1) Promise to divide HM Revenue and Customs back into two separate bodies - Inland Revenue and HM Customs and Excise.
NORMAL PEOPLE DON'TCARE, THEY JUST WANT TO PAY LESS TAX
2) Repeal the Consolidate Fund Act 2005, stripping the Treasury of the power to issue funds out of the Consolidated Fund.
DO YOU REALLY THINK ANYONE GIVES A STUFF ABOUT THIS? YOU THINK THIS IS A TOP TEN VOTE WINNER?
3) Scrap plans for a Supreme Court of the United Kingdom, restoring its power to the Law Lords.
MAYBE, BUT iI DON'T THINK PEOPLE ARE IN THE STREETS DEMANDING THIS. NOT A TOP TEN ISSUE.
4) Revoke the Disability Discrimination Act 1995, giving choice back to business.
APPALLING IDEA. NASTY PARTY BACK WITH A VENGEANCE. YOU MAY NOT LIKE PR AND CARING ABOUT IMAGE, BUT THIS WOULD LOSE YOU THE ELECTION ON ITS OWN
5) Scrap plans for regional casinos.
I AGREE, BUT NOT A TOP TEN ISSUE
6) Replace the rail watchdog group Passenger Focus with a series of geographically separated groups.
INTERESTING IDEA, IF IT WORKED WOULD BE POPULAR IN THE LONG RUN, BUT I DON'T THINK IT IS OBVIOUS THAT THIS WOULD MAKE A HUGE ISSUE. WORTH EXPLORING, NOT A TOP TEN ISSUE.
7) Revoke all pardons given to soldiers executed for cowardice and other offences during the First World War.
YOU ARE MAD. YOU REALLY THINK THIS SORT OF NONSENSE IS A TOP TEN VOTE WINNING ISSUE??
8) Scrap the Consmer Credit Act 2006.
MOST PEOPLE DON'T KNOW ENOUGH ABOUT THIS TO MAKE IT A MAJOR ISSUES.
9) Increase the age of candidacy for public elections from 18 to 21.
TINKER TINKER - NO VOTES TO BE WON HERE.
10) End the proposed Commission on Equality and Human Rights.
GOING BACKWARDS I'M AFRAID. WE SHOULD CERTAINLY LOOK CLOSELY AT THE REMIT, AND RETHINK A LOT OF THE LEGISLATION, BUT THIS IS NOT A TOP TEN ISSUE.
So, a few interesting suggestions - and some absolutely barking ones!!!!
Posted by: James | March 13, 2008 at 11:32
If England, (and I say England not Britain)is handed over to another Labour Government at the next election,as is pointed out by Ken Stevens, could almost certainly happen,the Conservatives should implode and never, ever, recover.
I have always been a Conservative voter,but the way things are at the moment I do not think I could vote for them in the next election,they should be so far ahead in the poll's that nothing can stop them ,but we all know that is not so.
Start thinking of England,the rest of the U.K.have a voice ,where is Englands first Minister....and Parliament
Posted by: E Justice | March 13, 2008 at 11:36
Englandism, it seems the Conservative party is afraid to be itself, to stand up for what is right, like tax cuts, like a tough line on the EU, like putting the nation above the individual. I really feel that under Labour our people are being taught to serve themselves first, without a thought for the future direction of the nation. We are now in a state of drift, economically, morally, politically. The Conservative party needs to set down a set of core fundamentals and say this is what we believe in. Of course the party has to appeal to Labour and Liberal voters to win them over, but most of these are decent people who subscribe to basics such as respect for law and order, community and of course no-one wants to pay more tax! The public need to have a fixed idea of what the party stands for, currently all the good ideas coming forward are being lost on the back of trying to appeal to every minority view in the country.
Posted by: Tony Makara | March 13, 2008 at 11:37
How about being Conservative again?
I am sadly approaching 40 and when I talk to co-workers in the City (who must be natural Conservatives as investment bankers), very few show the remotest interest in politics. Moreover, there's an almost stunningly uniform response that New Labour and Cameron's Conservatives are indistinguishable.
Help.
Posted by: Mark Hudson | March 13, 2008 at 11:56
Pledge to get rid of about
90% of taxes
90% of laws
...and be done with it. In Ronnies words 'Government is the problem'
Posted by: Conservative Homer | March 13, 2008 at 12:16
ChrisD | March 13, 09:42
"The question on English votes for English matters should have had a separate question regarding an end to the subsidy of Scotland."
I agree, though it should be English parliament, not merely English-only votes.
"...I don't buy into the automatic assumption that Scotland is being subsidised in the manner some seek to portray. .. this is simple rather unpleasant Scots bashing..."
I sort of agree. The problem is that the money is allocated to Scotland as a whole, without distinction as to relative neediness between different parts. It can be construed as not only, say, rich London subsidising rural Caithness but also rural Norfolk subsidising rich Edinburgh. The fact that Scotland sometimes chooses to use its money in ways that offer more practical benefit to its populace than is the case in England is not helpful, PR-wise! We need a parliament that has a similar responsibility towards its population as applies in Scotland (and the others). The aggro is not quasi-racist. A Scot living in England might gaze just as enviously at the care & concern shown by the Scottish Administration towards an Englishman living in Scotland.
Neil Yates | March 13, 09:35
"10 policies which, ..would pretty much guarantee victory."
These may well be worthy second-line objectives --but as headline inspiration to ordinary voters.....???
Hmmm, should get out & about a bit more, Mr Yates ;-)
michael m | March 13, 09:39
"Simple
Give the country hope and optimism"
The perfect mission statement!
Shall now crawl back under my stone and resume glaring balefully at the impotent futility of current mainstream politicians.
Posted by: Ken Stevens | March 13, 2008 at 12:48
I'll probably be shot down in flames for my very simplistic comment (but hey, I'm a simple person - and an ex Tory voter)
..How about we pull out of the EU so that we can have policies on everything !! Instead of the crumbs that our unelected Lords and Masters have left us with.
What's the point in voting for a Government that can't do anything !!??
Posted by: Boris | March 13, 2008 at 12:57
They need to understand why they were successful under Margaret Thatcher in the late 70s and 80s and a disastrous failure under John Major in the 1990's.
Firm leadership, moral courage, ethical principles, intellectual bravery, clear vision and common sense are what is required. Taking a firm stand against the Derek Conways of the party who are only interested in lining their pockets is a start.
Posted by: johnC | March 13, 2008 at 13:02
"What's the point in voting for a Government that can't do anything !!??"
Yes the EU has hollowed out our democracy disenfranchising us. In the last 24 hours I note that Darling has sought to rubbish Conservative policies on targeted taxation of alcopops etc claiming the EU wouldn't allow it, and Gordon Brown has flown to the EU begging to be allowed to cut VAT on environmental products. Our democracy and Parliament has been enfeebled by the EU. As such the Conservatives should highlight the loss of sovereignty, questioning if Government policy is Government policy, or if they are following instructions from the EU, as well as picking on a populist policy issue, that's in the EU competency, and using this as a Trojan horse vehicle to repatriate powers.
Posted by: Iain | March 13, 2008 at 13:42
'The public need to have a fixed idea of what the party stands for, currently all the good ideas coming forward are being lost on the back of trying to appeal to every minority view in the country.'
Agreed Tony. At the expense of the majority view: the core Conservative vote and the unjustly vilified white working class as so recently pilloried by the BBC Poliburo and further compounded by C4 sneering at some more ‘white trash’ with ‘Pramface’ tonight.
This is not about race, it is about identity. With identity comes self-respect and with that sense of worth and purpose comes mutual respect. This is not a Baxter Basics agenda. It is about making people feel that they are respected, that their views are listened to and that we share the common bonds of decency and humanity rather than marginalising vast swathes of our community.
Oops, I sound as patronising as a BBC commissioning editor.
Posted by: englandism.com | March 13, 2008 at 14:09
"Pledge to get rid of about 90% of taxes,
90% of laws"
Alas, Homer: VAT is an EU tax, so here to stay. Most laws are EU based, so also here to stay. Even today, I heard we will have to have car headlights on all day, even though our own transport minister believes it will lead to many more motorcycle deaths.
Why aren't the Tories pledging to thwart this madness? Oh yes, I forgot, they're committed to "In the EU, run by the EU..."
Posted by: Gospel of Enoch | March 13, 2008 at 14:13
Sorry if this has been mentioned before, but you've set out the survey columns in an extremely confusing order that is virtually impossible to remember once it has scrolled off the top of the screen. Expect a lot of "Don't Knows" that the user intended as "Strongly Disagrees"...
Posted by: Frederick James | March 13, 2008 at 14:27
Englandism, what you say is very true. As a middle-aged white protestant hetrosexual English-born male, I feel that the rest of society receives favouritism over me. Everything is geared towards discriminating in favour of minorities, giving them grants, first-choice in job offers, more protection under the law than I get and so on. All I want to see is eveyone being treated equally. For example if I were to set up a group to promote white culture I wouldn't stand a chance of hell in receiving a government grant, if anything I'd be accused of racism. The fact is white people exist, white culture exists, white communities exist, but we are treated as trash, and openly mocked by the liberal/left establishment that run the media. The Conservative leadership should come out and say openly and clearly that it supports white communities and the traditional British lifestyle. If they don't back us they will lose us.
Posted by: Tony Makara | March 13, 2008 at 14:42
If those prize wet juveniles at CCHQ read these comments I hope they get the message loud and clear. - "The troops are near to mutiny"
The EU - despite the numerous europhiles who frequent this blog - is central. The public may not have yet grasped that in much of the political sphere we are powerless but it's true nonetheless. Whether voters rate it high or not it underlies - and undermines - everything else. We've got to disentangle ourselves, not from Europe, but from the EU. An associate status would do fine like the Swiss have.
The other thing is that the economy is on the brink of disaster and all those soporific mantras about sharing in growth is so much twaddle. We HAVE TO get both taxes and borrowing down NOW. So we have to cut expenditure and we could start on the multi-billions going to Brussels. Oh, I forgot, we are NOT ALLOWED to do thast!
Posted by: Christina Speight | March 13, 2008 at 15:24
"If those prize wet juveniles at CCHQ read these comments I hope they get the message loud and clear. - "The troops are near to mutiny""
I would take your points more seriously if you did not start off by indulging in childish insults about CCHQ followed by outrageous and false claims which dismiss anyone who disagrees with your world view as a Europhile.
Posted by: ChrisD | March 13, 2008 at 15:57
[email protected] - interesting policies. I've put my thinking cap on and come up with 10 more policies Cameron would do well to adopt. These are exactly the kind of things that would actually have the public talking about us.
1) Revoke the Government of Wales Act 2006, repealing the new powers are devolved to the Welsh Assembly after last year's election.
2) Scrap ban on smoking in pubs and restaurants.
3) Replace the National Police Improvement Agency with two agencies: a central police training and development authority and an IT organisation.
4) Scrap the offence of inciting hatred against a person on the grounds of their religion.
5) Repeal the Civil Partnership Act and annull all civil partnerships made in the time since its introdduction.
6) Repeal the Domestic Violence, Crime and Victims Act 2004.
7) Overturn the changes in the law made by Labour to allow people to change their legal gender; everybody who has done so in the interim to revert to their original gender (in the eyes of the law).
8) Repeal the ban on hunting.
9) Replace the Pensions Regulator with an occupational pensions regulatory authority with stripped-down powers.
10) Reintroduce The Crown’s immunity from planning processes, scrapped by Labour.
Don't think anybody could argue with any of those too much.
Posted by: Oliver Arthurs | March 13, 2008 at 16:34
Immigration, EU, crime and the NHS are the buttons to press.
What was it the polls said? Something to the effect that in excess of 80% want a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty?
That sounds like an awful lot of people who are not happy with the way the EU currently works. It may APPEAR to be a low-priority issue, but I think that's because most people are taking the view that it's no longer possible to have any control over the direction of the EU.
Changing that perception and showing the public what a Conservative government would do to reverse the excesses of the EU could be a big vote winner.
Look at the comments in the mainstream media, on the BBC message boards and on political blogs when immigration is raised as a subject.
Immigration and social cohesion should be right at the top of the list for Conservative action.
We need radical policies that clearly differentiate Conservative proposals from those of the other parties in these key areas. My fear is that, if we fail to do this, the next election will see the vote split by minority parties who will not be afraid to offer the promise of a big-fix for these key issues.
Posted by: Mike H | March 13, 2008 at 16:36
Chris D @1557 Of course you must be a europhile by definition if you don't want " to disentangle ourselves, not from Europe, but from the EU".
If you read all the comments the great majority above agree with my belief that the party has lost its way over the EU.
And as for CCHQ, if THEY are not responsible for the shambles that's going on, who is ? Are you IN CCHQ by any chance?
Posted by: Christina Speight | March 13, 2008 at 16:58
This survey was supposedly timed to coincide with the lead up to the Spring Conference.
It marks more mischief making from Guardian columnist Tim Montgomerie. See you at the Conference Tim.
Posted by: Bill Brinsmead | March 13, 2008 at 17:01
Why aren't the Tories pledging to thwart this madness? Oh yes, I forgot, they're committed to "In the EU, run by the EU..."
Indeed. Free thinkers beware. Its that way because the EU says so, and if they say so, thats how it is.
OK 90% of taxes is very broad, and probably a little (but only a little!) optimistic, but it always amazes me on this site how many reasonable suggestions get slapped down by someone saying 'you cant do that because so and so says so' (and not just the EU). We're in politics to change things, not to pussyfoot around bad legislation. In the words of Barry Goldwater "extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice"
Alas the first part of that quote unfortunately has been deserted by all but the wrong sort of people, the Ken Livingstones of this world, whose goal seems to be anything but the defense of liberty.
Still, one step at a time, first we've got to get into power, if that means not even mentioning bold ideas, so be it.
Posted by: Conservative Homer | March 13, 2008 at 17:41
We will discover the joys of EU membership when the pound plummets in value and all those EU goods in the supermarket start to cost the earth. Of course we won't be able to switch to British-made anymore because British-produce is hardly available anymore, our farmers are treated like dirt and have only ever got a bum deal out of EU membership. No wonder suicide is so high in the farming community. Anyone with a few minutes to spare might want to look at the UK's unemployment figures since we went into Europe? When we traded with our loyal old friends in the Commonwealth we were in a much better position.
Posted by: Tony Makara | March 13, 2008 at 17:58
Oh great, I must be a Europhile that works for CCHQ!
Posted by: ChrisD | March 13, 2008 at 18:47
Tim/ Sam,
I will not be participating in this survey simply because of the way you have phrased some of the questions. I think this survey has been rushed and in an effort to simplify the questions it loses any real value. In particular three questions:
A strong anti-politician message needs to be rolled out that makes it clear that Conservatives will give voters more power and politicians less. We'll give voters powers to sack ethically questionable MPs and we'll stop MPs using taxpayers' money in unaccountable ways
I strongly agree with the sentiment but the examples you provide do not suggest to me a strong anti-politician message. Such moves will only have minimal real impact and as such are weak.
A promise to give the voters of England a fairer deal. This should include an end to the subsidy of Scotland and stopping Scottish and Welsh MPs from voting on laws that only affect people living in England.
Once again I agree with the sentiment but disagree with the examples you suggest. I agree that the Barnett Formula should be reformed but also believe if Scotland has a greater need for subsidies than other regions then there should be a mechanism to provide such subsidies. We are after all supposed to be the Unionist Party.
As for EVfEL and the EGC (which are inferred by your phraseology) they seem little more than a flawed ideas that actually negate the concept of a strong anti-political message. All they do is marginally shift power around the Private Parliamentary club in an exclusionary manner. Real anti-political action here would be to reduce the power of Parliament in certain areas and give the English their own assembly improving their levels of democratic representation to something closer to that of Scotland and Wales.
Promise to give the British people a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty, regardless of whether it has been ratified by any or all EU states.
I do not believe that this is a valid legal option. I agree with those who believe that the treaty cannot be repealed. My personal view is that a future referendum should decide whether powers are repatriated and whether referendums should be held on all future transfers of power. It seems pointless having a retrograde referendum on something that a British Government has already committed to. Once again I agree with the sentiment but oppose the detail.
In some ways it seems that this survey could be perceived as attempting to create a false impression of people's views about party policies. Better just to outline the sentiment rather than go further and outline proposals that really don't stand up to serious scrutiny when compared to those sentiments.
So I won't be participating in the survey. The way the questions are designed simply does not represent my views.
Posted by: John Leonard | March 13, 2008 at 19:05
"My personal view is that a future referendum should decide whether powers are repatriated and whether referendums should be held on all future transfers of power. It seems pointless having a retrograde referendum on something that a British Government has already committed to. Once again I agree with the sentiment but oppose the detail."
John, that is an excellent idea. You also highlight the glaring failures in this survey extremely well when you go on to add "In some ways it seems that this survey could be perceived as attempting to create a false impression of people's views about party policies. Better just to outline the sentiment rather than go further and outline proposals that really don't stand up to serious scrutiny when compared to those sentiments".
Posted by: ChrisD | March 13, 2008 at 19:15
"I do not believe that this is a valid legal option. I agree with those who believe that the treaty cannot be repealed."
I am no lawyers but it seems to me there is more than a little evidence to suggest that Parliament signing over powers to Brussels has been done on dubious legal grounds, for the Act of Supremacy states that 'no foreign prince, person, prelate, state or potentate hath or ought to have any jurisdiction, power, superiority, pre-eminence or authority ecclesiastical or spiritual within this realm'.
Posted by: Iain | March 13, 2008 at 19:44
Iain,
This may well be the case and certainly I would be among those who would support those who challenged Parliament on such grounds but there is little chance that such a challenge will ever take place.
My personal view is that in practicality no major constitutional change should be considered valid unless the people have voted on it specifically in a referendum (i.e. the Irish view of such matters).
However, given that Brown and Blair have now decided that they have the power to sign up to the atrocious treaty I don't see any value in specifically voting on Lisbon. The moment to stop it will have gone.
Better to vote on the issue of repatriating powers. If such a mandate is given then the process of return powers to Westminster can begin.
Posted by: John Leonard | March 13, 2008 at 21:34
"5) Repeal the Civil Partnership Act and annull all civil partnerships made in the time since its introdduction.
7) Overturn the changes in the law made by Labour to allow people to change their legal gender; everybody who has done so in the interim to revert to their original gender (in the eyes of the law)."
Yes, that's right, homophobia will really draw the punters in. After all, the late great Iain Duncan-Smith's last stand against Section 28 got the polls through the roof, didn't they?
How ridiculous. These aren't policies, they're explosions of hateful splenetic bile, as are the paranoid Euroloon rants about threats to freedom of thought and the like.
If these are your suggestions for Tory Party policy it's just as well for you that your leadership isn't listening.
Posted by: Margaret on the Guillotine | March 13, 2008 at 22:53
ChrisD @1847, "Oh great, I must be a Europhile that works for CCHQ!",
You're so sensitive a soul that i looked for some explanation. If you want to be a europhile - that's OK by me as long as you don't work in CCHQ and help to wreck the country
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
As to the question of a referendum post-ratification there are a number of scenarios which would meet the case.
== A referendum rejecting the Lisbon Treaty and instructing the government to renegotiate its terms. This would strengthen the negotiator';s hand enormously.
== Renegotiate without prior authorisation. This would be much weaker as the negotiator would not have a referendum result lying there on the table as he argued - with the implicit threat that entails
==Do a straight authorisation for the abrogation of the Treaty under the Vienna Convention on Treaties (ca 1860 I think- 1867?? )
There are more ways than one of skinning a cat. What we can't have is this 'kitchen cabinet'/ CCHQ imposition of silence on the leader. It will destroy the party
Posted by: Christina Speight | March 14, 2008 at 00:30
John,
'We are after all supposed to be the Unionist Party.'
Just to clarify. The union referred to in the official title of the Conservative party concerns Ireland and has no connection with the Act of Union (1707).
'Real anti-political action here would be to reduce the power of Parliament in certain areas and give the English their own assembly improving their levels of democratic representation to something closer to that of Scotland and Wales.'
Agreed and more. The model proposed is for the return of an exclusively English Parliament to Westminster and the creation of a British Senate to replace the Lords.
Low cost, high gain, with the infrastructure in place. The trouble is that almost all of the senators would be English but, hey ho, that's representation of the people for you.
Yes, I am aware of the historic position of Wales but the goalposts have moved.
Posted by: englandism.com | March 14, 2008 at 09:09
I tried to post here at around 1am this morning, but my access to the web went down at that time.
I tend to agree with Alex Swanson at 19.05, that about 4 of the questions, had too many disparate points in them, some of which I disagreed with, while other points I felt more positive about. So I decided that I could only drop a category in voting.
I expect the questionnaire had to be composed fairly speedily, but I can't help thinking that if each question had been on one point only, you might have got some even more interesting results!!
Posted by: Patsy Sergeant | March 14, 2008 at 11:24