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My understanding of Orange Bookers, is that they pretty much run the Lib Dems now... It is strange how the Lib Dems have gotten themselves in this problem though. Their bizarre policy of having a referendum on EU membership rather than the Treaty just makes them look like they arent playing the same game as the other poltiical parties. It was bad tactics from the start.

"It's delicious to watch another party suffering European difficulties."

Indeed it is editor.

I love the fact that this issue has become a problem within both Labour and the Liberal Democrats and proves that there are some individuals in both parties that have a little bit of credibility and are prepared to keep a promise. For that I salute them.

This Labour Government along with the Conservative and Liberal Democrats are still very much pro EU,regardless of the statements by Hague,Heath and others.

The local elections are but a few weeks away and many have had it with the EU lies and manipulation from us and the other two.

We will soon see how many percentage points we are in front after those elections.

Let's not forget,those elections will be quickly followed by the European Parliamentry elections,and after that,a probable early General Election.

Those anti EU supporters in the Conservative MP ranks can and will bring things down hard on us I'm sure.

What constitutes a "constitution"? You can have a constitution for a social club but the crux of this debate turns on whether the Lisbon Treaty is a constitution or not.

What are the defining criteria?
How does the Lisbon Treaty match up to such
criteria?

If William Hague is correct in saying:

"The EU Treaty before parliament is the Constitution under another name"

then both the LibDems and Nulab are honour bound to support a referendum.

The trouble is who can anyone trust to establish these defining criteria?

The LibDem referendum position (on membership not the treatytution) was a half-baked policy from the dying days of Ming's time. Clegg failed his first test by not ditching it and actually coming down one one side of the fence. (So then, perhaps this just proves that he's a LibDem through and through.)

I hope there's a possibility of a Cleggy climbdown. It's going to be that much harder to get a referendum in without it. So far the only justification he's given to his policy is that "the constitution vote would have been a vote on whether or not we stay in Europe". Which demonstrates that he must have been asleep when France and the Netherlands voted "no" and didn't get chucked out. Or maybe he was in a leadership contest at that time - it's not like anyone would have noticed a difference.

How utterly dismal that an elected political party sits on the fence of one of the most important and divisive political issues of our time. How ridiculous that the new leader adopts as one of his first policies one of the stupid ones that got his predecessor the chop! "The real opposition", all right - opposition to taking part in actual democracy. They are, after all, only "liberal" democrats.

Why isn't Conservative Home advertising the upcoming mass lobby of Parliament which 'I want a referendum' is organising?
Even though they were leant on to exclude UKIP from their list of supporters, (for reasons which I won't go into here,) it seems that only UKIP are providing any coverage of it and helping people to attend?

I am disappointed in Nick Clegg. I know him from his years in the European parliament, and despite our disagreements I rated him as honest and honourable. Yet he is now peddling the line that the Treaty is so different from the Constitution that it no longer requires a referendum. Sorry, Nick. Telling an obvious falsehood with a straight face doesn't make it true. It doesn't even make it credible.

UKIPwebmaster - Do get with it. Here in Hammersmith the party is out in full force ENTHUSIASTICALLY backing the IWAR poll. No sign of UKIP but the DM is there But then this is the same place where the new Tory council in two successive years has cut the rates against the advice of CCHQ - the idiots.
These are Tories I can relate to compared with the europhile and tax-loving leadership!

Let us have the full referendum post ratification of the Lisbon Treaty and benefit from article 50

see

http://www.fco.gov.uk/Files/kfile/FCO_BEU_
AmTreaties_TEU.html#o

Who cares if it's called the Constitution or the Treaty?The only thing that matters is what this "Document"does to this country and it's people.Ignoring this only makes us look more pro EU than we really are and is bad for Conservative business.

"Why isn't Conservative Home advertising the upcoming mass lobby of Parliament which 'I want a referendum' is organising?"

A very good question - regardless of party loyalties this is one of the few opportunities to demonstrate on the most fundemental issue of the day - everything else is secondary.

Cracks are appearing in Labour/Lib Dem discipline - now is the time to make a stand.

Why not a Conservativehome link to the iwantaferendum noticeboard for bus/car sharing contact numbers ?

Yes,that's a good move Rod.

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