Government suffers Lords defeat on Northern Rock

Lord Strathclyde, Opposition leader in the Lords, has issued this statement following Labour's defeat by 154-142 and 164-133 on provisions requiring publication of an independent audit of Northern Rock and for freedom of information to apply to nationalisation:

“The House of Lords is doing its proper job in revising legislation – and, under the most difficult circumstances, doing it well.
 
"The Government should now surely listen. It is inconceivable that any government worth the name would not accept these changes to protect the taxpayers’ interest.
 
"We need the transparency in government which the Prime Minister trumpets – and nowhere more than over this, the biggest nationalisation in British history. Fine words about liberty and transparency mean nothing unless they are matched with action.
 
"Parliament was faced, after the fiasco of Gordon Brown’s handling of Northern Rock, with a so-called “emergency” Bill giving it huge powers over banks and building societies. Five months dithering – three days for Parliament to rubber stamp sweeping Treasury powers.
 
"Now the Lords has inserted checks on the powers in the Bill, requiring independent audit of what the taxpayer is being expected to buy and giving freedom of information to the public about what is being done in their name. It’s time to let the people know the facts."

Comments

[Jack Cade]

Thank heavens. And it took an unelected house in touch with reality to do the obvious.

What the hell is going on in The Commons, have the big pensions destroyed Labour MPs' sense of the National Interest?

[Malcolm Dunn]

Good. Northern Rock may yet be a catastrophe for the taxpayer. It will surely be for Brown and Darling.

[John Strafford]

Well done, the House of Lords. I hope they stick to their decision. No going back.

[Morris]

Unlike some obsessives on here, the public don't follow the detail of these things.

This is a bad move for the Tories. All most people will see is - Tories throw a spanner in the works.

As to what they propose to do instead... well, that's one of the great unanswered questions.

There are no votes in this.

[voice of the city]

Not very clever.

Blocking the exits when a lifeboat is being launched makes one look rather irresponsible.

Student politics I'm afraid.

[sjm]

A lifeboat? One with several bloody big holes in it then.

[Northernhousewife]

Morris
Does EVERYTHING come down to votes.
Sometimes issues are bigger than that. Trawling through the blogs today, there is a real sense of unease. For all our sakes questions need to be answered.
Does that REALLY need explaining?

One could be forgiven for thinking you might vote Labour.

I wouldn't be surprised to find some Labour supporters feeling unease tonight on the basis that they do not trust their guys to have got it right and are frightened of what scrutiny might expose.

This is not about getting Labour out of a hole or putting us in one. Its about not standing by whistling whilst Mr Brown digs a grave in which to bury his mistakes and us. And by US I refer to all of us. Not the Tory Party.

[m dowding]

Leftie morons should stick to their own blogs and leave ours to Conservatives. This Northern Wreck is a disgraceful and despicable Labour cover up. Who, what and is "Granite"? Interesting that Aberdeen is known as the Granite City. This whole affair stinks and we must know the TRUTH. FOI is meant to cover exactly this kind of secretive stitch up. Well done The House of Lords!

[ChrisD]

"Not very clever.

Blocking the exits when a lifeboat is being launched makes one look rather irresponsible.

Student politics I'm afraid."

Absolutely priceless comment in light of the developments since Lloyds TSB first showed an interest in NR.
Blindly voting through this bill without proper scrutiny of the relevant information or putting in safe guards to protect the interests of the people of this country would be student politics at its worse, surely worthy of D minus?

[Oscar Miller]

The BBC are doing their best to bury this news. On R4s 6 o'clock news it was not mentioned in the headlines and relegated to a tiny slot near the end of the half hour bulletin, when it was reported as dry as dust as the Lords making three "changes" to the bill. No mention of the word "defeat" of course. The BBC gets more like Pravda every day.

[John Leonard]

Conservative and Libdems Peers should be congratulated for forcing a level of accountability and transparency on the Government over this matter. The people need to know how much public funding has been put at risk and whether NR will provide a return on the public investment that the Government has committed too.

Too often has this Government squandered public funding and it is entirely right that they be held to account over this ongoing debacle. I'm sure once nationalisation was put in place the Government hoped this would fade into the gloom of their generally depressing and highly embarrasing performance.

These moves make that harder and hopefully will keep NR sufficiently in the spotlight to highlight that this is yet another disaster born out of this Government's utter incompetence and self-serving political expediency .

[R.Baker.]

A great result,well done to all,this can only bring more support from the ranks of the voting public and perhaps votes from the usually non voting public.Agood day for us all I think.

[Jake]

Methinks Morris is a Labour HQ troll

[James Burdett]

Has this been certified as a financial bill or can this be kept up? I don't see it happening because of the uncertainty it would cause but it would be interesting to see how far their Lordships pushed it.

[David]

Vince Cable's 'principled stand from the start' is unravelling with this revalation over Granite. It makes nationalisation even more untenable, unless he wants to argue that he would be happy to nationalise a solvent business that is not legally connected to the failing company.

[Malcolm Dunn]

Er, what lifeboats are those 'voice in the city'?

[David]

"Student politics I'm afraid."

And if you were a student of politics, you'd be aware that the Lords is doing its job as a revising chamber, scrutinising government legislation to make sure it's correct and proper.

You don't jump into a life boat before checking it has no holes in it.

[Andrew S]

"Student politics I'm afraid."

Also a phrase used by Gordon Brown in PMQ's on wednesday...

[strapworld]

a vote of NO CONFIDENCE is now good politics.

[Northernhousewife]

'Voice of the City'
Newcastle?

[Northernhousewife]

I was abit preoccupied during Channel 4 News.
Did I miss it or was there nothing to miss?
I have flicked through the Channels... nothing.

[ChrisD]

I gave up watching C4 news when the HoC resumed debating the bill after it returned from the HoL's. Apparently the details of nationalising a bank, or lack of them, and the time to debate this bill properly isn't newsworthy.

[Northernhousewife]

Perhaps the papers will do a better job tomorrow. Anatole has been doing a sterling job in the Times [trying to protect our sterling].

[voice of the city (not that pit Newcastle - w8)]

"You don't jump into a life boat before checking it has no holes in it."

On the contrary, you do. If a ship is sinking you do not have the luxury of time, you take the first availiblelifeboat and worry about the details.

I note the subsequent opinion polls vindicate my judgement of this.

We need to project responsibility and expertise on this - not sutdent punch and judy.

[Yet Another Anon]

This is a bad move for the Tories. All most people will see is - Tories throw a spanner in the works.
I imagine those who favour nationalisation will come down on both sides of the argument, the government has the choice of continuing with the current plans and forcing it through with the Parliament Act or coming to some kind of compromise, or accepting the proposals - there is no sign of any likliehood of the bill falling and it is being pushed through such that any delay will be days at most.

[Opinicus]

The Parliament Act can only force it through in a year's time. I suspect Darling's timetable is a little more urgent than that.

Let's see if there is any point in a bicameral legislature or whether we only need actually have/need the one chamber.

If NR's real assests are in Granite then I am not sure that we want to nationalise the rest. We must have an open audit of the books. Let the Lords stick to their guns.

[Opinicus]

The HoL has already backed down and the bill is become law.

There is no remaining point in a second revising chamber if it is going to behave in this craven and useless fashion. There are three majorities against and then the party leaders agree to a shabby backstairs deal. Britain is as much a democracy as Putin's Russia.

The HoL has no residual function in 21st Century politics. It should be disbanded to make room for a unicameral federal parliament and English parliament.

[Yet Another Anon]

Presumably the Bill could have been split, auditing would have been easy to define as being a Money Bill and as such the Lords would have no power to reject that, the bill itself had majority support in both houses.

[James Maskell]

It was a suprize to see the Lords backing down like that. They should have put the amendments through once more to make it clear that they were unhappy with the Bill.

I understand a deal was done elsewhere. Any idea of what is to happen now or is this just a trick?

Regarding the Parliament Act, I thought it couldnt only be used for legislation which had been advocated through the most recent manifesto, in this instance the 2005 Labour manifesto. Clearly this wasnt in the manifesto and surely the Parliament Act wouldnt apply.