Are Frank Field and Kate Hoey about to be expelled from the parliamentary Labour Party?

That's the speculation over at LabourHome.  Gisela Stuart and Graham Stringer resigned from the IWantAReferendum campaign after being warned by Government Chief Whip Geoff Hoon that their membership of it was incompatible with receiving the Labour whip.  Kate Hoey and Frank Field are sticking with IWAR and must now risk losing the whip.

The consensus at LabourHome favours action against Hoey and Field.  These comments are typical:

"I think Kate Hoey is just beyond the pale."

"Can't fault Geoff Hoon on this, self-indulgent MP's need to wake up and smell the consquences. Agree that Hoey is detached and I consider it an insult to the party if she stands at the next election."

"Agree, MPs should have no part of this insidious campaign and Hoon must be firm."

"Kate Hoey will be no loss to us anyway - I've never forgiven her for supporting fox hunting. She'd prefer being in the Tories anyway.'

"[Frank Field] makes Blair look like a Bennite."

Given that Charles Clarke was using Tory lines to attack Brown today, LabourHome will be calling for his head next.

Related link: Greg Hands MP on how Labour is referring Hammersmith IWAR vote to the police.

Comments

[Geoff]

Whilst not wanting to overlap the debate over on Seats&C about the commitment of defectors, I think we'd all be happy with those two shifting to our side of the chamber.

Stuart and Stringer obviously have the spines of a jellyfish.

ZaNuLabourHome is apparently having a fit of amnesia and Bottler Broon's solicitor said the other day that "manifesto commitments are not subject to legitimate expectation", but we have to respect the only two Labour MPs who are really willing to stick with the promise that they made to their constituents.

[Frenchy]

Kate and Frank are the only two honourable Labour MPs left.
Yet surely there must be a few more that do not want to renege on an Election promise?

[eugene]

There are only a dozen or so good Labour MPs and these are two of them. The Party would be crazy to withdraw the whip , especially since they are merely asking for what was in Labour's election manifesto.

Strange days indeed.

[Sean Fear]

I hope Labour go for it. It would be another nail in their coffin.

[Buckinghamshire Tory]

I would have welcomed them both (at least Frank Fields) into the Tory Party.

[Dispatches from Gordon's Bunker]

Cor, Gordon Brown as Father Christmas. Who'd have thought it.

[Comstock]

Kate and Frank are the only two honourable Labour MPs left.

Oh come on!! If they were Tories you'd be calling 'em everything from a cat to a dog!

[Curly]

They are getting themselves into a right old muddle, fighting like ferrets in a sack!

[Malcolm Dunn]

Absolutely Sean! Although I think they are doing more damage to Labour by remaining where they are than by joining us.
Actually Comstock, I respect MPs who stick by their principles even when I profoundly disagree with them (Ken Clarke)however people who defect for purely personal advantage like Quentin Davies and Shaun Woodward have my total contempt.

[Tony Makara]

Opinion is not wanted in the Labour party. The great thing about the Conservative party is that it has always been a healthy arena for dissension. If Field and Hoey want the freedom to express themselves then they need to cross the house. I suspect they are well on the way to doing that.

[Sean Fear]

Malcolm, if they stood as independents, I'm sure the party could offer them a clear run. If they have the whip removed, then it gives legs to the EU Treaty story, and confirms everything that people dislike about new Labour.

Alan Howarth's defection was principled, based on a genuine change of heart. Quentin Davies' and Shaun Woodward's were based on nothing more than pique.

[David Parker]

It would be unwise to condemn Stuart and Stringer out of hand. They did, at least, have the guts to express their opposition publicly, which is a great deal more than the spineless performance of the rest of Labour MPs. Their example has forced Brown to employ draconian bully boy tactics in an attempt to force through an undemocratic and morally bankrupt measure, which is deeply unpopular with the majority of the population.

Whatever their political persuasion, many voters deeply resent the utter contempt with which they have been treated by the present Government. Even though political memories are notoriously short,hopefully, enough people will neither have forgotten or forgiven this by the next general election.

[Gospel of Enoch]

Tony Makara: "The great thing about the Conservative party is that it has always been a healthy arena for dissension. If Field and Hoey want the freedom to express themselves then they need to cross the house."

Hypocrisy! I recall 8 Tory MPs had the whip withdrawn for failing to vote for the Maastricht Treaty. How is this any different?

[Tony Makara]

Gospel of Enoch, checkmate!

[David Belchamber]

I have always singled out Frank Field and Kate Hoey as Labour MPs who speak a great deal of common sense and stick to their principles.
They do not appear to be out for themselves and they are a credit to the HoD, whether they stay in the Labout party or come over to us.

[Mr Angry]

So Labour want to punish Hoey and Field for expecting their party to keep its promises. Truly Orwellian.

[head counter revolutionary]

Those quotes from LabHome have really made my day.
Lets have a look at Kate Hoey and Frank Field's voting records.
Kate votes with the Govt 80.7% of the time. There are 2 Lab MPs that rebel more than her i.e. Corbyn & McDonnell. I guess they are for the chop too.
Frank votes with the Govt 92.9% of the time. There are 14 Labour MPs who rebel more than him (excluding Kate Hoey).
Are they all for the chop?
There were several Lab MPs who didn't vote for the majority of the hunting ban measures, at least one of whom is a minister. LabHome should have a witch hunt against them while they're at it.

[Paul D]

Kate Hoey may not be too bad a fit in the Conservative Party. Frank Field, on the other hand, I don't think would be (or would want to - he's very much old Labour and has recently been highly critical of the Tory party). If Field were to stand as Independent Labour and keep his seat then he MAY be willing to work with a Cameron government in some welfare-reform capacity (I would hope we'd be more receptive to the ideas he came up with in a ministerial capacity in the late 90s than was Blair)

[Yet Another Anon]

Frank Field and Kate Hoey haven't been expelled so far and it seems unlkely they will be at any time in the near future, the one at the moment seeming most likely to be expelled is Charles Clarke who seems to think he is infallible and has never got over being fired as Home Secretary.

As for Frank Field and Kate Hoey, I rather suspect that Kate Hoey would be unlikely to join the Conservative Party as while she is a Liberal Unionist her views on economic and social policy differ somewhat from the Conservative Party, she would be more likely to sit as an Independent, or join either the Liberal Democrats or Ulster Unionist Party.

As for Frank Field I imagine he would seek re-election as an Independent Labour candidate if the whip was removed, he would be more likely to go off to the US and join the Democratic Party than join the Conservative Party.

The headlines focus on Frank Field's campaigning for ending means testing and switching to greater universalism, and his desire that welfare for the able bodied be limited to 2 years at most.

What the media tends not to mention so much is his calls for rates of JSA to be equalised with Incapacity Benefits, he feels that JSA is far too low. His Pension ideas would bankrupt the Treasury and the Contributions Agency, greater universalism increases takeup among the most vulnerable, but it also costs more even after administrative savings - more universality needs lower rates of benefit relative to the economy to afford it.

[Votedave]

We should invite these good folk to come over to the Conservatives.
They are actually being punished for honouring Labour's manifesto pledge for a referendum.

[Oberon Houston]

Wasn't it Brown that took a huff with Frank Field because he knew more than him about welfare reform? Blair promised Field (sensibly) to leave him to carry out the changes needed to make the sysyem work better. Brown then leaned on Blair to replace him with...... Harriet Harman. Someone he could look down on intellectually with ease.

Its tough for Field, because he is a decent guy fustrated with agressive chippy morons like Brown in the Government. If he loses the whip we should do all we can to get him to at least advise on welfare reform. This would blunt any attacks by the Brownites, give us a valuable hand on some key policy. In return we should make a public pledge not to do the dirty on him this time round.

[Tapestry]

Shame Charles Clarke is a europhile or he could join the Gang.

[Mike]

Kate Hoey is a Tory anyway so you are welcome to her, good riddance to bad rubbish

[Tony Makara]

Its pretty obvious that Frank Field has no future whatsoever in the Labour party, particularly with Gordon Brown as leader. When he does defect I hope he doesn't get to have any imput into Conservative welfare reform. Frank Field is one of those politicians who only see the effect of welfare dependency rather than the causes and would only offer solutions on how to manage welfare. The way to eradicate welfare dependency takes vision, and courage, the courage to invest in training, stop-gap public works programmes and job creation. The reason we have a welfare problem in Britain is because politicians only try to manage the problem rather than aiming to eradicate it. Nothing I've seen coming from Frank Field gives me the impression that he is anything other than someone who would seek to manage welfare.

[Votedave]

This all reminds me of the time that octogenarian Labour member Walter Wolfgang was thrown out of Party Conference for shouting "nonsense."
You've got to agree with the Prime Minister, or else.

[James Sproule]

Like a lot of Tories I have a lot of time for Frank Filed. Even when I do not agree with him (which is a good deal of the time) his positions are rigorously thought through and he treats his opponents as having equally legitimate views. In short he is an old fashioned parliamentarian. Now what job might there be for an unbiased, well respected parliamentarian? Be afraid Michael Martin, be very afraid…

[Peter]

Kate Hoey is one of the most principled, independent minded MPs in the House of Commons. Obviously she has no future in the Labour Party!

[Northernhousewife]

Both are honourable people and I hope they stick to their guns, not just out of partisan self-interest, but, like most on this site, we appreciate opponents of decency and conviction.
Parliament is not rich enough in these commodoties. Kate Hoey's reception at the Channel 4 Awards was a disgrace. If she is treated like that in the Party, they don't deserve her.
I can't see either of them joining us, but that doesn't mean our MPs can't offer them support.
It wasn't that long ago that some Labour MPs were complaining that Bob Marshall-Andrews only spoke to Tory MPs because he had been sent to 'Coventry' for his opposition to TB.
Childish bunch.
If their constituants know a good MP when they see them, they will vote them in as Independents.
Can't help thinking that the Great Ditherer will find a face saving [Ha!] fudge and back down.

[deborah]

"The great thing about the Conservative party is that it has always been a healthy arena for dissension"

oh really?
Grammar schools?
And why so many postings about the need for loyalty above all?

[Sally Roberts]

"Kate and Frank are the only two honourable Labour MPs left.

Oh come on!! If they were Tories you'd be calling 'em everything from a cat to a dog!"

But, Comstock, they're not! Have you never heard the old saying "If my Granny had wheels, she'd be a bus"!?

[Josh]

"I think Kate Hoey is just beyond the pale."

That's a little harsh really. If an MP is "beyond the pale" for objecting the her leader's policy we might as well elect the Commons by d'Hondt.

[Richard]

"The way to eradicate welfare dependency takes vision, and courage, the courage to invest in training, stop-gap public works programmes and job creation."

I thought Keynesianism had been routed.

[Sally Roberts]

I could see Frank Field being welcomed into the Conservative Party and indeed I am quite surprised he hasn't crossed the floor already. Ms Hoey is a different matter - although she has sensible views in my opinion on countryside matters, she is Labour through and through on most things.

[Gordon D]

Frank Field, has he not already defected once before ? Was he not a member of the Young Conservatives while at university or somewhere ?

[Yet Another Anon]

Brown then leaned on Blair to replace him with
Frank Field said he was only prepared in the reshuffle then on to take the position of Secretary of State for Social Security and only on his own terms, Tony Blair was very clear that he offered him another cabinet post, but that Frank Field demanded to be made Secretary of State for Social Security and Tony Blair was not prepared to do that - if David Cameron tried to get Frank Field into a future government I am sure Frank Field would make the same demands and David Cameron would find them just as unreasonable.

Nothing I've seen coming from Frank Field gives me the impression that he is anything other than someone who would seek to manage welfare.
Unless welfare is completely abolished, whatever is there will have to be managed, there is no magic bullet to cure unemployment forever, employers create jobs not welfare organisations - as Jesus said "The poor will always be with us!"

Its pretty obvious that Frank Field has no future whatsoever in the Labour party, particularly with Gordon Brown as leader
I imagine Gordon Brown will take the attitude that he would prefer him to be a dissident MP for Birkenhead voting with Labour 90% of the time rather than an Independent or Conservative MP probably voting against Labour most of the time - I imagine if he stood as an Independent he ould hold Birkenhead just as Ken Livingstone won the London Mayoral elections as an Independent the first time around. Frank Field is in his late 60s now and is unlikely to go on for more than 10 years as the local MP anyway.

Maybe Kate Hoey will go off and take a direct part in Northern Ireland politics, an NIUP or UUP Assembly member and perhaps even member of the Executive, not much left for her in Westminster.

[Yet Another Anon]

Frank Field, has he not already defected once before ? Was he not a member of the Young Conservatives while at university or somewhere ?
He has been in Labour since though, even being a frontbench spokesman in the 1980s first under Michael Foot and later under Neil Kinnock.

He didn't join the SDP although he does hold many views in common with David Owen - if David Owen had ever become Labour leader it would have been easy to imagine Frank Field being a key ally.

[Conserv-a-tory]

I've just had a brief look at Labour Home and it looks as dull as ditch water.

[Treacle]

Sorry to break up this unbeleivable 'love-in' but however honourable Field and Hoey are (and they are) and however right and brave they are being (and they are)the fact remains; they are in the Labour Party for a reason..it's because they are Labour and not Conservative.

Since they are not Conservative we should not take them.. we are a Poitcal Party with political objectives, and they don't share them.

No, we shouldn't take them.

[Londoner]

As a constituent and close observer of Kate Hoey (and Tory member), I would note the following:

1. She agrees with us on civil liberties, Europe, the Union, the countryside, the constitution, the undesirability of G Brown as PM, the dreadfulness of Livingstone (particularly the tall buildings) - not a bad start.

2. Her Labourism is strongest on her support for publicly funded public services - at the last election, despite effectively running as Independent Labour (every leaflet mentioned her opposition to the Iraq war and that she would fight for civil liberties), she emphasised that she was proud of what the Blair Govt had done in that respect. This may have been a figleaf as she had to give SOME reason for supporting the Government's re-election. But is there any Tory policy now that would make such support for public services (she would put it as support for the less fortunate) a problem?

3. She is always extremely friendly with anyone around the constituency who she knows is an active Tory. This may be partly because the Lib Dems come second, so we do not threaten her, and also because she knows she gets lots of personal votes from Tory-inclined voters. Further, I believe that she does not get on very well with the local Labour Party.

I agree it is more likely that she would seek to stand as an Independent, or possibly go to Ulster as a Unionist - could she perhaps "do an Enoch" and come back to Westminster as an Ulster Unionist?

But if she did apply to join the Tory Party, we should welcome her.

[Serf]

Do all the posters on Labour Home really support the EU Constitution? Or are they just more interested in loyalty.

As was pointed out, MPs from our side lost the whip over Maastrict. The professional parties are not much different from each other. What makes us different is that were positions reversed, us amateurs would be shouting at each other here on Conservative Home, and as long as the comments weren't abusive, the editor would be happy to watch from the sidelines.

[Martin Coxall]

Frank:

JOIN US. We understand your pain.

[passing leftie]

Kate Hoey should be deselected, and someone more Labour-inclined put in. Frankly, you are welcome to her.

[Lib Dem Member]

"The Blood of the Martyrs is the seed of the Church" as St Cyprian so rightly said. If the Labour party is so monumentally stupid as to with draw the whip because of Lisbon then they are finished. Field and Hoey while on lovable in human terms have moral authority as principled and independent minded. They would win any PR war. Vauxhall is more complicated but field would crush an official Labour Candidate in birkenhead. It would be another Peter Law.

They are however not Tories. if they wanted to join the Lib Dems i would urge them not to. owever much i admire both of them and the publicity would be marvellous they are not liberals and wouldn't be happy. i suspect the same of the Conservative Party.

[tory diary]

Londoner says:

"But is there any Tory policy now that would make such support for public services (she would put it as support for the less fortunate) a problem?"

It's about the direction of policy. Kate Hoey, like most labour MPs, believes that the beginning and end of every political problem is to spend money. yes, she may not toe the labour line on europe or ID cards (and that is to her credit) but otherwise she is labour through and through.

Tories who vote for her in vauxhall should get a grip of themselves

[Sean Fear]

"Kate Hoey should be deselected, and someone more Labour-inclined put in. Frankly, you are welcome to her."

That's the viewpoint of a party turning in on itself. You might well lose if she stood as an independent.

[Conserv-a-tory]

Londoner said that "Katie Hoey agrees with us on the Countryside". I hope by this she/he isn't making the assumption that all Conservatives are pro-hunting, especially those of us who live in rural England!

[Londoner]

Sean Fear I think speaks from some experience in analsying elections and I agree with him.

I also agree that conservative-minded people who vote for Kate Hoey as a Labour candidate are mistaken, and I am not one of them. But she gets much more publicity for the things that she agrees with most Conservatives about than the things that she does not; so it is an understandable mistake. They might also think she is greatly preferable to a Lib Dem (who have taken second place for a few elections), and they are right in that.

Re "Conserv-a-tory", I was not assuming that we are unanimous (any more than we are in agreeing with her on Europe) - but the fact is that the vast majority of Tories would not (and did not) vote to ban hunting and the vast majority of Labour MPs did. So on that issue she would find more in common with colleages as a Tory than as a Labour MP. Personally I know very little about hunting as I find the sort of places it goes on much too muddy and far from a decent wine bar, but if she stood in a rural area I imagine her chairmanship of the Countryside Alliance (which goes wider than hunting I believe) would be a plus rather than a minus.

[Conserv-a-tory]

Thanks for clearing that up Londoner. The hunt meets in my village a couple of times a year but like you there are other things I would rather do than go an watch the spectacle - anything involving an inflated ball being kicked or thrown preferably

[Chad Noble]

"Frank:
JOIN US. We understand your pain."

Frank's just called for those earning over 150k to be forced to give 10% of it to charity.

Still, I guess now you're not a low tax party, that still makes him a good fit?

[Londoner]

I wonder if Frank Field has factored in the loss of tax revenues from the 40% gift aid relief, or is he proposing removing that for people above £150K?

I therefore conclude that if he joined the Tories and was made a Treasury spokesman, he would not improve the surefootedness of the Treasury team of which he would be a member. However, if he were appointed as a Treasury Minister in the current Government, bearing in mind their recent form, he probably would...