That is what the Derby Telegraph is reporting:
"Tories in Derby claim 300 Labour members in the city are to defect to their party tonight. They are confident the mass defection will take place and are bringing party chairman Caroline Spellman MP to the city to welcome them. It follows frustrations within the Asian community about the de-selection of popular Sinfin councillor Hardial Dhamrait. Asian community leaders also say they are disillusioned with Labour policies and are no longer prepared to offer the party the unquestioning support it has traditionally received from their fathers and grandfathers."
ConservativeHome has spoken to Cllr Richard Smalley of Derby Conservatives and he has confirmed that the broad outline of the story is true. He told ConservativeHome that there were serious tensions within Derby Labour - partly because of the establishment's "dictatorial" manner. He dismissed the idea that there was something unbelievable or suspicious about mass defections of this kind. He said that there had been extensive discussions between Derby Conservatives and a large number of the individuals that were defecting. The defectors could have chosen the Liberal Democrats but had made a very considered decision to join the Tories.
This is a developing story. ConservativeHome has contacted CCHQ for their view and we will be asking if our party needs to enact similar procedures as Labour enacted some years ago to combat entryism - whereby large numbers of individuals are signed up to join local parties but are not necessarily fully committed to the Conservative Party.
Hat-tip: WestBrom blog.
4.20pm: A Tory spokesman has supplied this statement to ConservativeHome: "Under David Cameron's leadership more and more people who previously may not have felt inclined to support our party are now coming to help us make the changes our country needs. Attracting new or lapsed supporters is vital in helping us win the next election. Responsibility initially rests with the local association to consider each membership application and in most cases they do so very effectively. However if the party had concerns about a particular aspect of an association, including membership, it can get involved from the centre."
25th February: Derby Telegraph report offers conflicting reports on numbers of defectors. One suggestion is that the number of defectors may be as low as 25, another closer to 200.
"large numbers of individuals are signed up to join local parties but are not necessarily fully committed to the Conservative Party."
In my area, large numbers of individuals have been elected as Conservative councillors but do not seem to hold any Conservative values!
Posted by: deborah | February 23, 2008 at 13:07
It follows frustrations within the Asian community about the de-selection of popular Sinfin councillor Hardial Dhamrait
and
He dismissed the idea that there was something unbelievable or suspicious about mass defections of this kind.
You don't say.
Ahmed Hussain (Respect Cllr Tower Hamlets)
Tony Lit
Rehman Chishti
Sajjad Karim MEP
Gurcharan Singh, Manjit Singh, Maninder Kaur Keith , Jarnail Singh Jandu and Jagdish Gupta (Ealing Labour Cllrs)
Defectors are always to be welcomed if there has been a true change of view but the party is storing up trouble for itself if these Damascene conversions are for other reasons.
Posted by: Jonathan | February 23, 2008 at 13:28
Tony Lit II
Is Grant Shapps going on YouTube to proclaim this one.
This is obviously stupid mistakes and opportunism - student politics - weekend.
Posted by: Stupid mistakes | February 23, 2008 at 13:52
Well, at worst by my calculations that's another £7,500 pa that Derby Conservatives can use for campaigning! Good news.
This is an event unique in my experience of the Party. I don't want to comment too far on this situation, because as the Editor says, it is still unfolding.
As for "entryism", while of course we should be watchful for organised tactics, this shouldn't stop us gving a broad welcome to those who wish to come and join with us. My understanding is that the Party Constitution already gives local Association Executives the power to refuse or remove the membership of anyone whose conduct or expressed opinions are not compatible with the aims and objectives of the Party.
Posted by: Richard Carey | February 23, 2008 at 13:53
Will it be like a Moonie wedding?
Posted by: Justin Hinchcliffe | February 23, 2008 at 13:55
Mass defections such as this are due to ethnic divisions rather than changes in political principles. The community leaders involved will demand a pay-back, i.e. "investment" in their areas, in return. The Conservative Party should having nothing to do with corrupt Asian politics. Have we learned nothing from Bradford West?
Posted by: Moral minority | February 23, 2008 at 13:57
What happened in Bradford West, MM?
Posted by: Jennifer Wells | February 23, 2008 at 13:58
Haroon Rashid, the 2005 Conservative candidate in Bradford West, was (with two Tory councillors) charged with vote rigging in November 2007. See http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article2852994.ece.
Posted by: Moral minority | February 23, 2008 at 14:07
This is a bit weird. A staged mass defection like this does not suggest to me a commitment to Conservative policies; it looks more like USA style 'machine' politics.
Posted by: Dave B | February 23, 2008 at 14:14
Given typepad's posting delay, and the absense of any AJAX updating javascript, I don't see how 'Jennifer Wells' 13:58 comment, can be in reply to 'Moral minority' 13:57 comment.
Labour trolls about.
Posted by: Dave B | February 23, 2008 at 14:21
Having followed US politics, this kind of "bandwagon" politics seems to be very effective to convince voters that Party X is credible.
I'm wondering if Tory HQ will implement a website like Barack Obama or Hillary Clinton have where you can make phone calls/arrange/attend local events. And have fund raising campaigns online.
Posted by: Jaz | February 23, 2008 at 14:32
Dave B must have a slow computer or connection. Jennifer's post came about a minute after mine went up.
Posted by: Moral minority | February 23, 2008 at 14:33
Jaz, your good idea is beyond the capability of the brainless Sloanes that are multiplying in CCHQ.
Posted by: Moral minority | February 23, 2008 at 14:35
I would seriously advise caution here - do not pretend that these asians - en masse - have suddenly become Conservatives - more because of what they cannot get out Of Labour - letting them join will only cause huge long term embarrasments for short term gain - look at Mr Karim - he is not realy a Tory -
Posted by: ashley rochdale | February 23, 2008 at 14:36
To have replied to the 15:57 'Moral minority' comment, 'Jennifer Wells' would have had to:
1. Load this page.
2. Read it
3. Type a reply to the 13:57 post
4. Complete Typepad's capatcha.
I don't see that happening in one minute.
I suggest that whoever wrote the 13:57 'Moral minority' post, also wrote the 15:58 'Jennifer Wells' post. It appears to have been a convoluted set up to an negative Times story > Labour troll.
Posted by: Dave B | February 23, 2008 at 14:42
I think you are wrong Dave B. The comments from Moral Minority and Jennifer Wells were from completely different IP addresses. Please focus on the subject of the thread now.
:-)
Posted by: Editor | February 23, 2008 at 14:45
look at Mr Karim - he is not realy a Tory
He's a Conservative Candidate for the EP in the North West, as I recall. And you're obviously really helping our campaign to win seats there by this...
Whilst I am sure that our officers and staff there are exercising due diligence in an unprecendented (but I hope welcome) event such as this, I get pretty fed up with these "not a 'real' Conservative" bleats, to be honest. It is an attitude that has done nothing for our ability to recruit new members, some of whom might not have even considered supporting us in the past.
Posted by: Richard Carey | February 23, 2008 at 14:48
Tim---You're full of rubish. Trying to enact procedures to combat people entering the Party is nuts and just reflects the narrow minded, probably racist motivation of your good self that has lasted from your sad, failed days as IDS's aid. What about your 'And' theory---doesn't that apply to people as well, or just carbon copies of yourself?.
To any Derby prople reading this, Tim Montgomerie does not represent the views of the East Midlands party or anything close to them-he is just a stirrer out to make a name and living for himself by hacking away at individual structures and bodies claiming using the cloak of wanting to make everything and everyone accountable.
Posted by: Miles Bannister | February 23, 2008 at 15:02
I'd prefer 300 Labour Members of PARLIAMENT to defect to us.
Posted by: James | February 23, 2008 at 15:02
Richard Carey's hostility to the Editor and traditional Conservative posters is becoming tiresome. He professes loyalty to the Party but he his attacks on Eurosceptics show where his true loyalties lie.
Sajjid Karim only defected to the Conservative Party AFTER he failed to secure the first place on the Lib Dems list for the North West region. His Conservative credentials, e.g. his voting record and Europhile views, are non-existent. He is just an opportunist who wants to continue his ride on the EU gravy train.
Posted by: TFA Tory | February 23, 2008 at 15:16
This is opportunism along ethnic lines, not a serious political change of heart.
Posted by: Michael Davidson | February 23, 2008 at 15:17
Perhaps Miles Bannister, a nonentity whom I have never heard of, can demonstrate how he represents the views of the Party in the East Midlands. Personally, I see Roger Helmer MEP and Chris Heaton-Harris MEP as accurately reflecting the views of the members in that region.
We are beginning to see more and more personal attacks on the Editor. Is this a CCHQ inspired plot to discredit Tim and this site.
Posted by: TFA Tory | February 23, 2008 at 15:22
What is the price?
Posted by: MICHAEL MCGOUGH | February 23, 2008 at 15:42
I too would advise caution.... before commenting. Unless you know exactly what is going on there it would be very easy to say something foolish.
Posted by: Malcolm Dunn | February 23, 2008 at 15:43
Why do race issues bring out all the loonies?
Posted by: Erasmus | February 23, 2008 at 15:44
From the general thrust of previous comments, there's more commonsense to be found here than in CCHQ (why does that not surprise me?).
It comes down to:
1. An observable truth that "politics" in some ethnic groups amount to tribal loyalties and even a "spoils" culture.
2. A vivid memory of the last time we were involved in similar faction fighting: Ealing Southall.
Hence general scepticism and concern that it'll be tears before bedtime.
Sorry if that makes me one of Erasmus's "racist loonies". Some of us have Conservative convictions that go back more longer than the latest local spat.
Posted by: Ellesmere Dragge | February 23, 2008 at 16:05
Ellesmere Dragge at 16:05
"more longer"?
Ouch! More apologies.
Posted by: Ellesmere Dragge | February 23, 2008 at 16:09
Hear hear Miles totally agree with your comments. Most of the posts are nothing more than racist. If the report was about three hundred white Anglo-Saxon Protestants defecting than the editor and the rest of these posters would be saying its the best thing that as happened to the Party in years.We should be welcoming people into the party not saying they should be turned away!
Posted by: Jack Stone | February 23, 2008 at 16:10
I agree that this sounds like ethnic political gesturing, and is not particularly welcome to the party.
I can't agree with Jack Stone's comments, because it's very unlikely that 300 white party members would defect en-masse in this way.
Posted by: Andy Stidwill | February 23, 2008 at 16:23
Not with that attitude.
Let's have some optimism here, a positive approach. The party should appear welcoming and supportive of people who want to join. Even if you end up with someone a bit dodgy, the welcoming attitude will have a far wider impact.
On the other hand, if we appear suspicious and cold to new people, no-one genuine will consider joining.
Posted by: David | February 23, 2008 at 16:46
I apologise to the editorial team if this is off-topic, but I would hope that I have the right to a public reply to "TFA Tory"'s personal attack on me.
Richard Carey's hostility to the Editor and traditional Conservative posters is becoming tiresome.
Firstly, if you're going to attack me personally, I'd be grateful if you had the courage of your "convictions" to do so under your own name so we're on a level playing field here. Secondly. you're free to go somewhere else if you're getting tired!
To set the record straight, I don't believe that I have ever been hostile to the Editor here. I have met Tim off-line on several occasions and we all post here with his consent, after all. Furthermore, I have been an active supporter of his "and theory" of politics, not just on this blog in various posts but also using it to good effect in several successful campaigns on the ground.
He professes loyalty to the Party but he his attacks on Eurosceptics show where his true loyalties lie.
You stop short of telling us where you think that is, "TFA Tory"! If you doubt my credentials in terms of work for the Party, you're welcome to check with my colleagues here through the link below if you really want to waste Party staff time! As someone who worked hard in 2004 on the campaign that saw Roger and Chris re-elected to the EP here in the East Midlands, I find your logic hard to fathom!
I have one priority in politics - to get Conservatives elected. My "attacks on Eurosceptics" have been focused on opposition parties such as UKIP and their fellow travellers here! There are many Conservative eurosceptics (Chris Heaton-Harris MEP does come to mind as just one example) who have shown that it is perfectly possible to put forward intelligent, moderate eurosceptic arguments without frothing at the mouth like some of our right-wing opponents.
Perhaps if "TFA Tory" feels the need to respond to me on this, he/she could do this via email to [email protected], to avoid disrupting the thread further. Otherwise they could just grow up, I suppose.
Posted by: Richard Carey | February 23, 2008 at 16:46
I thought half of Derby Labour joined the Lib Dems a year ago - how are any left?
Posted by: Chris Harrison | February 23, 2008 at 16:48
Re: Editor 14:45
Fair enough, mea culpa.
Apologies to 'Moral minority' and 'Jennifer Wells', clearly I need to take an anti-paranoia pill. Sorry.
Posted by: Dave B | February 23, 2008 at 17:00
Jack Stone at 16:10. If 300 defectors of all races were to come on board it would indeed be a coup. Perhaps CCHQ can confirm whether these new recruits reflect the diversity of modern Britain. It is perfectly legitimate to query the reasons of all who "cross the floor". If the move is in fact motivated by sectarianism then we should be concerned. This is not welcome in a democracy.
Posted by: Jonathan | February 23, 2008 at 17:39
For visitors, not everyone posting on this thread is a Tory. The 'loonies' are lefties that turn up and post to make trouble.
Fakes.
Posted by: Northernhousewife | February 23, 2008 at 17:50
An alternative point of view.
While I can understand the caution expressed at the motives at such a mass defection, I often hear people lamenting
the fact that many Asians do not vote Conservative, despite being prominent in business and sharing conservative family and social values.
Many of these people are natural Conservatives so perhaps the defection is not so strange as it first appears.
Posted by: Dispatches from Gordon's Bunker | February 23, 2008 at 18:09
Shame, I thought Jack Stone had gone away. Never quite worked him out- too earnest to be a troll but off-piste to be genuine.
Posted by: Pisaboy | February 23, 2008 at 18:09
*too* off-piste.
Anyone implying racism in asking the same questions any sensible person in teh association or CCHQ will be asking anyway need to sit down with some Ovaltine and reassess things.
Posted by: Pisaboy | February 23, 2008 at 18:19
Jack Stone at 16:10:
three hundred white Anglo-Saxon Protestants defecting
I'm totally bewildered here. I'm trying to imagine any club or association of 300 Brits (of any religion or genealogy) unanimous on the colour for the wallpaper, let alone on a staged mass defection to the "enemy".
In Hampshire, Hereford and Hertford, such hurricanes hardly happen.
Posted by: Ellesmere Dragge | February 23, 2008 at 18:41
Initial reaction is very good - not sure I agree with the "they aren't one of us" analysis that some seem to attach to these high level defections.
The fact is the Conservative Party is a broad church (albeit a church that belives in key principles).
Probably we will lose a few of those members over the next few months or years, but chances are we will have many new paying members, and many who are prepared to campaign for us, who we would not have had before.
If we start judging new members based on their previous political allegiances then we are heading down a very slippery slope.
Posted by: Simon W | February 23, 2008 at 18:42
I want to know whether Tony Makara is real.
I also believe Sam Coates is fictional.
Posted by: Mike Ainsley | February 23, 2008 at 18:44
Editor, you know full well this post is massively irresponsible (which is probably why you made it):-
a. because your muck-raking has probably jeopardised the defection of these 300 members, costing the Derby Tories (who could probably do with it) £thousands, and the national Party a red face.
b. because you have used the iniquitous word "entryism", and implied that these defectors are the equivalent of the Marxists in 80s Labour - clearly not as I don't believe those 80s entryists went over from the Tories to Labour, which is the analogous position.
c. because you ignore that the greatest, most dangerous and most worrying threat of entryism in UK politics is into the Conservative Party from Evangelicals who have more in common with US "conservatism" [sic] than the sedate British Toryism - yet somehow you encourage that.
d. because you make the assumption that membership of the Party is subject to "commitment" - by which you mean "they have to be red in tooth & claw Thatcherites" - when the Tory Party used to be a broad church.
e. because your assumption of "commitment" is exclusive and makes the assumption that anyone who has ever dared to vote Labour is not welcome in the Tory Party - doesn't bode very well for a party stuck on 33% of the vote.
We all know why certain posters on here don't like defections from the likes of Gurcharan Singh, Tony Lit, Helen Grant, Saj Karim, et al. There is a unifying bond between all those candidates that is not to the taste of ConHome posters in their leafy Home Counties villages - it is most unappetising.
This whole post could do with a good fisking from a sensible Conservative standpoint. It is ridiculous that the (allegedly) premier home of Tory opinion could be ready to denounce defections *to* the party.
Posted by: Margaret on the Guillotine | February 23, 2008 at 18:54
Editor: Will you please ban Margaret on the Guillotine?
For those who do not know her Name refers to putting our former Prime Minister's neck under the axe.
I find that offensive.
Posted by: Alan S | February 23, 2008 at 19:00
Alan S - don't be precious.
Posted by: Mike Ainsley | February 23, 2008 at 19:06
Alan S, how presumptuous. It's actually the tile of a rather mordant and very listenable Morrissey song.
I suspect your comment comes from opposition to what I have to say. Wasn't Dan Hannan complaining about that sort of thing a little while ago?
(Sorry, O/T, I know)
Posted by: Margaret on the Guillotine | February 23, 2008 at 19:07
I want to know whether Tony Makara is real.
I also believe Sam Coates is fictional.
Odd post! Tony is as real as me.
Posted by: Deputy Editor | February 23, 2008 at 19:20
Alan: I don't like MotG's name and disagree with her views but I only ban, overwrite comments as a last resort.
Posted by: Editor | February 23, 2008 at 19:24
Mike Ainsley @ 18:44 - Sam is most definitely real - I have had the pleasure of meeting him and sharing a drink or two on more than one occasion at Conferences and am looking forward to doing so again up at Gateshead, perhaps? Tony Makara I haven't yet had the pleasure of meeting but even if that isn't his real name he is gentlemanly and pleasant even when we don't agree on everything - something, sadly, I can't say of every poster on CH!! And I speak as someone who has been accused of "not being real" on more than one occasion and even, so I am told, accused of being a "nom de plume" of someone quite well known - which caused no little amusement!
Posted by: Sally Roberts | February 23, 2008 at 19:27
For visitors, not everyone posting on this thread is a Tory. The 'loonies' are lefties that turn up and post to make trouble.
Fakes.
Posted by: Northernhousewife | February 23, 2008 at 17:50
I am one of these left wing "loonies" who, when my children were very young every minute of every day was spent with them..looking after them and seeing to their home.
I was involved with their activities, learning and all their hobby's.
I also has time for my non-politico partner, I celebrated with him all of his achievements and not that of a Party leader's few points rise in the polls.
Results are a very happy marriage of long past 50 years 6 extremely well educated professional offspring.
What is being neglected for a wife and Mother to spend hours upon hours each day on one political blog-site or another?
Posted by: Effie | February 23, 2008 at 19:30
Deputy Editor:a fictional Sam Coates would say that.
Posted by: Mike Ainsley | February 23, 2008 at 19:32
Welcome back, Effie! We've missed your good natured banter!
Posted by: Sally Roberts | February 23, 2008 at 19:34
"We all know why certain posters on here don't like defections from the likes of Gurcharan Singh, Tony Lit, Helen Grant, Saj Karim, et al. There is a unifying bond between all those candidates that is not to the taste of ConHome posters in their leafy Home Counties villages - it is most unappetising."
(Posted by Margaret something or other...)
You obviously have a problem with leafy Home Counties villages !
If we are now depending on ethnic sectarian ghettoes to bolster our electoral position we are in trouble !! - what will be their price ?
Posted by: Rod Sellers | February 23, 2008 at 19:37
"We all know why certain posters on here don't like defections from the likes of Gurcharan Singh, Tony Lit, Helen Grant, Saj Karim".
Lit, Grant and Karim were selected as candidates in preference to many talented ethnic candidates with a much longer track record of activism. Syed Kammall MEP and Priti Patel are classic examples of true ethnic Conservatives.
It is nauseating when leftist posters use the race card, i.e. accusations of racism, against posters who object to these opportunist defectors receiving preferential treatment in candidate selections.
Posted by: TFA Tory | February 23, 2008 at 20:02
I read the title of this piece with interest and excitement.
I clicked on it and read the story, and my excitement mounted.
If it's true that 300 Labour members in Derby are planning to defect en mass to the Conservatives, I think it's excellent news.
We need to be an open party, seeking to attract new members. Not a closed and suspicious organisation that fears new people.
We've had a steady drip drip of Lib Dem councillors defecting to us in recent months, plus one Lib Dem MEP. Excellent.
Now if we truly get a mass defection of 300 Labour members - what a slap in the face for Labour. And what a boon for the Derby Conservatives. What a great boost to the momentum we've seen in defection to us.
Because defections are good. They show which way the political wind is blowing. They show who is on the up and who is on their way down.
And a real public sign that sections of the Asian community are finally waking up to the fact that Labour need not be their natural home - even better.
Not everyone is a political anorak like us (not meant as an insult - I am a political anorak).
Not everyone has deeply held political views that they stick with for years and years. Many people dip their toes in politics on occasions, and change whihc party they support - if they didn't governments would never change.
We should be delighted when the prevailing wind blows those with less trenchant political views/opinions/values in our direction.
Conservativism isn't a religion. You don't need to demonstrate blind faith throughout your life. There isn't one true path of belief. We are, and always have been, a pragmatic and practical Party. Traditionally, we haven't even been particularly ideological, although the advent of Thatcherism seems to have changed that somewhat. And we are a big tent, with quite a diverse set of beliefs and opinions to be found across the Party and in any Association.
So, this is good news.
Posted by: James | February 23, 2008 at 20:06
Well said James. A breath of fresh air.
Posted by: bluepatriot | February 23, 2008 at 20:09
"What is being neglected for a wife and Mother to spend hours upon hours each day on one political blog-site or another?"
Give Northernhousewife a break - if she's at home looking after kids, she deserves some time off. If they're babies, maybe they're asleep?.Of course it is also possible that, like you, her kids have grown up.
Incidentally - if you're a loony leftie, can we blame you for the Labour policies which have driven so many women back to work when they'd actually rather be at home with their children?
Posted by: deborah | February 23, 2008 at 20:09
James demonstrates the naive and immature thinking of so many of the self-styled modernisers and loyalists. The arrival of 300 members from one ethnic community into a one local association is likely to result in the use of a block vote in the selection of Parliamentary and council candidates. It could also lead to the disaffection and resignation of current members and candidates. That is bad news for party unity and democracy.
Posted by: Ted on the gallows | February 23, 2008 at 20:17
Should derby Tories turn away 300 new recruits and send them lidemwards and lose a once in a lifetime opportunity to lead the city?
The question answers itself.
Posted by: Felicity Mountjoy | February 23, 2008 at 20:26
If they're babies, maybe they're asleep?.
Give Northernhousewife a break - .
deborah | February 23, 2008 at 20:09 day
They are not "asleep" all day and as for "if she's at home looking after kids, she deserves some time off"
Her first priority is to those children and last but not least the reason I stayed at home all day was I had a husband who worked every hour God sent, who had enough sense to keep us debt free, what we could not pay for outright we went without.
His job was to provide for all of us, mine was to look after him, his children and our home.
Not spend hours on end on heaven knows how many different Tory blog-sites daily. One has that luxury when retired not with an active young family.
If being a left wing loonie and responsible for Labour policies
I can at least relax and look at the results we have achieved then I can hold my hand up.,.
Two University educated, one for 7 years one for 6 years. One extremely successful businessman and Two auditors and chartered accountants. One in a decent position within the Social Services
Left wing policies do not drive any Mother back to work, if people wish to stay at home with their children they will find ways.
The problem is these days too many people wish to live in a "Have now pay later society"
I have never agreed with that.
Posted by: Effie | February 23, 2008 at 20:48
If they're babies, maybe they're asleep?.
Give Northernhousewife a break - .
deborah | February 23, 2008 at 20:09 day
They are not "asleep" all day and as for "if she's at home looking after kids, she deserves some time off"
Her first priority is to those children and last but not least the reason I stayed at home all day was I had a husband who worked every hour God sent, who had enough sense to keep us debt free, what we could not pay for outright we went without.
His job was to provide for all of us, mine was to look after him, his children and our home.
Not spend hours on end on heaven knows how many different Tory blog-sites daily. One has that luxury when retired not with an active young family.
If being a left wing loonie and responsible for Labour policies
I can at least relax and look at the results we have achieved then I can hold my hand up.,.
Two University educated, one for 7 years one for 6 years. One extremely successful businessman and Two auditors and chartered accountants. One in a decent position within the Social Services
Left wing policies do not drive any Mother back to work, if people wish to stay at home with their children they will find ways.
The problem is these days too many people wish to live in a "Have now pay later society"
I have never agreed with that.
Posted by: Effie | February 23, 2008 at 20:49
"Left wing policies do not drive any Mother back to work, if people wish to stay at home with their children they will find ways."- Effie
The Labour taxation system strongly discriminates against stay at home mothers. Their policies (and their Ministers) have made clear their conviction that a woman at home is a waste of resources.
You underestimate the sacrifices that are now necessary for a one-earner couple with children under today's tax and social security system. Perhaps the parents should live apart - then they'd be OK?
Children need your love and your presence, but they don't need 100% of your attention 24 hours a day. Give the woman a break.
Posted by: deborah | February 23, 2008 at 21:13
Children need your love and your presence, but they don't need 100% of your attention 24 hours a day. Give the woman a break.
Posted by: deborah | February 23, 2008 at 21:13
Agreed but what they do not need is a Mother who spends hours on end on Political blog-sites.
Or is that what the Tories now recomend?
How to be a full time Conservative blogger and part time Mother and Wife?
Posted by: Effie | February 23, 2008 at 21:22
Or is that what the Tories now recomend?
Sorry that should have read "Recommend"
Posted too hastily before checking spelling!!
Posted by: Effie | February 23, 2008 at 21:26
Thank you for your support Deborah.
Effie's ignorant comments say more about her than me.
Incidently my kids would not dream of making the rude personal attack above, even at their age.
But then neither would I.
Posted by: Northernhousewife | February 23, 2008 at 21:28
Northernhousewife I support you too! You have always been friendly and I am quite sure that you are more than dedicated to your family. You deserve some time off - nobody can be tied to washing/cleaning/cooking etc. for 24 hours a day and it is highly unreasonable of Effie to think you should be! Take no notice of her. And Deborah - it's nice that I agree with you on this, as we so often disagree on the European thing - but actually this in my view is rather more important!
Posted by: Sally Roberts | February 23, 2008 at 21:37
NASTY AND OFF TOPIC COMMENT OVERWRITTEN.
Posted by: Effie | February 23, 2008 at 21:37
Further off topic comments will be deleted.
Posted by: Editor | February 23, 2008 at 21:42
Surely we are not endorsing ethically based politics are we?
I do not believe cco, after their Auschwitz stupidity, would be so blind as to have any part in a defection based on tribalism rather than individual political conviction. Such behaviour is an insult to democracy and our way of life.
That way lies Kenya.
Posted by: very concerned | February 23, 2008 at 21:55
Northernhousewife, if Effie is on here being offensive, then there must be a bad news story regarding the Labour party. Honestly its best to ignore her when she seeks to offend in this way no matter how deliberately provacative or upsetting she is.
I see that Tim has already been forced to overwrite one of her comments, not the first time.
Posted by: ChrisD | February 23, 2008 at 22:22
Don't know whether anyone has already mentioned it but according to the Derby Association website the defection includes two Labour Councillors, as well as members. Must be true if the association is picking up on it... I doubt they would want to say anything unless they knew it was a dead cert...
It will be interesting to see if the mainstream media pick up on this...
Posted by: Simon W | February 23, 2008 at 23:21
The time available is of course virtually two minutes. And very possible. I've had comments up with the SAME timestamp as their predecessor before now. In fact some blogs scold for sticking too many posts up in a minute.
Derby Conservatives must look forward to heartache and disappointment from this day forward.
Posted by: Chris Paul | February 23, 2008 at 23:38
Like this
Posted by: Chris Paul | February 23, 2008 at 23:39
And this
Posted by: Chris Paul | February 23, 2008 at 23:40
The only surprise in any of this is that those in question would want to join the Tories are affiliated to the European People's Party, as is Turkey's ruling AKP, the leaders of which are in no sense "former Islamists" and would not have been elected if they were.
Apart from that, this sort of thing is entirely predictable, and set to become increasingly common. The Tories' vehicles toured Ealing Southall proclaiming in various South Asian languages that Muslim, Hindu and Sikh festivals were to be made public holidays by the Tories. Then that party's "Quality of Life Commission" (don't laugh, it's real) published a report advocating that "local communities" be given the power to designate three public holidays in their respective localities.
In other words, the Tories are going to go around Asian areas at the next Election making this same promise all over again, adjusted according to how Muslim, Hindu or Sikh the particular constituency, ward or addressee happens to be.
After this, what else are these unspecified "local communities" going to decide? Who are they, exactly? I think we all know that they are the great and the good of the local mosque, mandir or gurdwara. Getting to decide this, and then a whole lot more, is to be their price for getting out the vote, sometimes consisting of nothing more than reminding their mates to fill in postal ballot papers the right way on behalf of their entire households.
These situations will easily perpetuate themselves, since people will move - not just from around the country, but from around the world - to live in these little Caliphates, Hindutvas and Khalistans.
Posted by: David Lindsay | February 24, 2008 at 00:25
Voting "en bloc" is a feature of elections in Pakistan and in India. Younger British people of Asian backgrounds are very alienated by all that goes with it.
Tories would be wise to adopt rules requiring membership to be at the same address as registration to vote. That is a LibDem weaknesss where they are very vulnerable to attack.
Posted by: Alan Ji | February 24, 2008 at 10:19
So how many actually defected? It's gone quiet. Did some of the 300 promised defectors change their mind? Was there too much spinning?
Posted by: TFA Tory | February 24, 2008 at 13:47
I would urge caution. If it sounds too good to be true, then it probably is. I would put money on it that they all know each other. Its a basic political tool to sign up a political party in order to create change from the inside. Espionage and spying are key tactics in political subterfuge to gain advantage.
Posted by: James Maskell | February 24, 2008 at 13:50
"Priti Patel... classic examples of true ethnic Conservatives" - bullshit, TFA Tory. You're forgetting that she was in the Referendum Party.
Posted by: Justin Hinchcliffe | February 24, 2008 at 13:56
A lot of Conservatives were in the Referendum Party - just as a lot of Conservatives are in UKIP today.
As I said above - politics isn't like 'one true religion'. Supporting a point of view at odds with official Party policy on some issues isn't a heresy, or we'd all be damned.
Posted by: James | February 24, 2008 at 18:30
COMMENT OVERWRITTEN FOR PERSONAL ABUSE.
Posted by: TFA Tory | February 24, 2008 at 18:31
Be Carefull with Mass defections.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article1719968.ece
http://www.underthecarpet.co.uk/Pages/NewsArticle.php?num=2195
http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2005/apr/04/localgovernment.politics
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/west_midlands/4310965.stm
Posted by: British Patriot | February 24, 2008 at 18:57
Let me try again. Justin Hinchcliffe welcomes ethnic defectors for the Labour and Lib Dems but not the Referendum Party. Priti Patel proved her Conservative credentials by working hard for the Party, including standing as a PPC in the 2001 general election, before she was selected for a safe seat. Yet Justin welcomes Europhiles such as Sajjid Karim but not a Eurosceptic like Priti Patel. That is stinking hypocrisy and double standards.
Posted by: TFA Tory | February 24, 2008 at 20:57
It's simply racist to imply that ethnic defectors are not 'real' Conservatives or conservatives - not a charge I make often. The Referendum Party probably cost us around 40 seats (min) in 1997. You, though, probably delighted in seeing more Labour and LD MPs, being the UKIP troll you are...
Posted by: Justin Hinchcliffe | February 24, 2008 at 23:44
TROLL OVERWRITTEN.
Posted by: Gloy Plopwell | February 24, 2008 at 23:58