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Just read this through and it comes across as thoughtful and genuinely speaking from the heart! Who knows, "The Social Covenant" could be the big idea that we have waiting for! Real Conservativism in Action. And it is more than time that the problems of crime and violence was addressed thoroughly rather than tinkered at as Labour have clearly done.

Important point about adults dealing with nuisance children. I've had problems with kids as young as ten running into my garden to kick over the bin and then running out again as some sort of dare. I feel powerless to do anything about these kids because they are so young that if I report the incident to the police they are liable to not take it seriously and at the same time I'm not allowed to physically eject these kids from my garden. This is the sort of low-level anti social behaviour that many people have to put up with, particularly during the summer holidays. I feel powerless to deal with ten year olds. Its ridiculous!

Just a thought but I wonder if it might be possible to make 'Garden trespass' a more serious offense? That includes kids who sit on the garden wall or gather in numbers making a noise directly outside the garden gate, and hurling their cans of pop or empty sweet wrappers into the garden. I've no objection to a youngster coming into my garden to retrieve a wayward ball if they politely collect the ball, leave and close the gate behind them. However I think its unfair that kids these days are allowed to violate people's gardens. So garden trespass is something that ought to be taken seriously by the police.

A lot of words and themes, now we need some concrete policy proposals on how to carry them out

Paul D, don't forget that if we give detailed policy proposals Labour will have stolen them by Monday!

In the same way the Tories have stolen Labours policies with welfare reform?

"Imagine: "Imagine a society where families are living together rather than being paid by the state to live apart... where local democracy is re-invigorated and civic leadership revived... a society which harnesses the power and dynamism of social enterprises that are dedicated to social justice... a society that is re-socialised, re-invigorated, re-engaged – with a criminal justice system that both properly punishes and reforms, and police force that are on the streets and known to the community…and you can imagine just how we can end our culture of violence and reclaim our streets."

Obama couldn't have put it better (didn't he get beaten). When are you going to restore capital punishment and also return corporal punishment in schools to be administered by someone specifically employed for the job (the teachers haven't got the nerve for it). I seem to remember during Howard's campaign that it was being mooted bt the Tories that an ant-homophobic officer be appointed to every school - probably Bercow's idea? I think a bouncer is a better suggestion (nothing against gays, my mother and father both were life long gays, wonderful people - I dont want Old Bill knocking on my door).

"Cotton Wool Society" - yes we all agree that children are too "wrapped up in cotton wool" and are simply not allowed to take the risks that we took when I was a child back in the 60s and early 70s. Trouble is that it is fear which makes parents over-protect their children who are not allowed to walk to school but must be taken in the car for fear of paedophiles and so on and so forth...! How we can break this vicious circle is the big question!

This is DC at his best I feel, when talking about the broken society. As he has said before, unlike in the 1970s/80s when Britain was the 'sick man' of Europe economically, now we're the sick man in social terms. There is no more pressing concern than dealing with this. And at least Cameron comes across as if he's interested in doing so, unlike 'brush-it-under-the-carpet-set-up-a-new-expensive-and -useless-scheme Brown and his party).

The next Conservative Government should legislate to put fewer people in prison, not more. The prisons, and police cells, are currently jammed with people who do not need to be there. Example- the "canoeist" and his wife who went to Panama. Now held on remand, including in police cells. Why ? No record of violence, no danger to the public. Confiscate their passports, put a tag on them, impose a curfew. But do not deprive them of their liberty for an indefinite period, at huge public expense.

David Cameron should pledge to reintroduce some common sense to the sentencing regime. It will not win applause from the Daily Mail, but it will save money, and to paraphrase Douglas Hurd, it will prevent making bad people worse.

"This is DC at his best I feel, when talking about the broken society"

Edison Smith, I agree. This is much better after the disappointing punitive welfare reform. I feel David Cameron has cornered the moral high ground on social breakdown. He understands that we are all interconnected and that the broken bottle some teenager throws away might cut some youngster innocently playing. How noisy and troublesome families can ruin the lives of everyone else on an estate. How we as citizens can't deal with anti-social behaviour because we have no-one to turn to. Domestic violence is often overlooked by the police and the police more often than not will just not turn up to deal with noisy neighbourhood gangs of youths. Something has to be done. We know the effects of social breakdown, we now need to understand and arrest the causes of that breakdown. The big-fix solutions of the Labour government have been a big-fail, there must be a better way.

David Cameron should pledge to reintroduce some common sense to the sentencing regime. It will not win applause from the Daily Mail, but it will save money, and to paraphrase Douglas Hurd, it will prevent making bad people worse.

Posted by: London Tory | January 10, 2008 at 14:32

Any time spent in prison on remand is cushier and under better conditions than time spent in prison after conviction. That time will be deducted from the sentence imposed. There will be no saving of money as you infer. A message will be sent to would be criminals that it is small beer to deprive and defraud insurance companies or anyone else. It would only make bad people worse (Hurd was unbalanced.
Cameron would not be wise to release the canoeist and his wife because they are potentially both floating voters.

Sentencing for a non-violent first offence should be aimed at re-habilitation and the point made to the offender that if they end up in prison again they will face a much harsher regime. Recidivists should face double-sentencing. That is a conviction that normally carries a six month custodial sentence should become 12 months if it is a repeat offence. A one year sentence becomes two years etc. Statutory sentencing should become mandatory for recidivists.

I wonder how well the "Social Covenant" will fit with the "Social Contract". We already have our rights from the state: teaching people responsibilities to the state is a little more difficult.

Maybe Cameron is a "liberal conservative" after all.

@Dontmakemelaugh

And what happens if the person on remand is found not guilty? Prison should only be used for those convicted, and who are a risk to other members of society.

Mr Canoeist is an ex prison officer. In this case there would be even more cost to the taxpayer, and he would have to kept in solitary. Even more reason NOT to jail in such cases.

Posting by: Tony Makara | January 10, 2008 at 15:08

I am with you Tony - except to say that it is unusual for someone committing a non-violent first offence to be sent to prison. I would suggest that stealing £50,000 by fraud, although non- violent (otherwise it would be robbery) is a serious offence and, for all our sakes, not to be dismissed lightly.

I think there are shafts of light here that I find attractive. I'd like to see the policy detail. I just wonder though wether our political culture is mature enough to absorb that level of devolution. If we really did devolve real power to localities would people be bothered to vote? It seems at times as if the "Government" has replaced God as being responsible for everything. Its like a kind of psycological dependancy where the state is looked at top deliver everything rather than acepting that much of civil society has to come from enighbourhoods.

And what happens if the person on remand is found not guilty? Prison should only be used for those convicted, and who are a risk to other members of society.

Mr Canoeist is an ex prison officer. In this case there would be even more cost to the taxpayer, and he would have to kept in solitary. Even more reason NOT to jail in such cases.

Posted by: London Tory | January 10, 2008 at 15:17

What would happen if that person committed further offences whilst on bail - it is all conjecture. By far the greater number in prison on remand are found guilty. I repeat, imho to release all those charged with non - violent offences on bail would send the wrong message to the criminal world and when all is said and done, it is a judge that decides if remand is necessary. He (or she - mustn't be sexist) is at liberty to impose any conditions for bail - it is his decision. We will have to agree to disagree.
As far as the prison officer, come Mr canoeist goes, we hope and pray that he is found not guilty and receives adequate compensation - say £50,000.
I am sure that insurance companies are looking forward to all fraudsters (not - that I am quick to say - that our canoeist is, being unconvicted) including those with several passports, being released on bail, however, I feel that insurance premiums will rise, but who cares as long as the prisons are empty.

"In the same way the Tories have stolen Labours policies with welfare reform?"

Actually, workfare was invented by American conservatives. It belongs quite comfortably in the conservative movement.

"I think there are shafts of light here that I find attractive. I'd like to see the policy detail. I just wonder though wether our political culture is mature enough to absorb that level of devolution. If we really did devolve real power to localities would people be bothered to vote? It seems at times as if the "Government" has replaced God as being responsible for everything. Its like a kind of psycological dependancy where the state is looked at top deliver everything rather than acepting that much of civil society has to come from enighbourhoods."

You say all that...then sign it 'Lib Dem Member'? :P You sound like a conservative!

A very good speech. Of course not much detail but the principle is there, and the principle is excellent.

There must be zero-tolerance of knives, let alone guns.

Or to put it another way, let's continue with the policies we've followed for decades, and which have resulted in the trashing of an Olympic sport and a doubling of homicide rates!!

What does someone have to do around here to get LISTENED to? To get SENSIBLE policies put in place? If Cameron wants to look macho why doesn't he just buy himself a Hummer and leave other people alone?

There may be the problem of being too legalistic. If you pass laws that remove notable amounts of cotton wool the first child death will be blamed on the government (even if would have happened anyway). It will be the main item on BBC news, of course if it happened under Labour the BBC will lead with Hilary Clinton again.

MORE of the same PLEASE!

Are we not worried this message is to negative?
I think cameron has chosen the wrong time to present this message - the media is coverning browns "celebrity" blitz, the stateman like presentation of a (most ironic) labour generation of nuclear power stations will resonate.

Cameron needs solid foreign policy, and good conservative issues - this is not going to beat labour.

(On a side note - Having watched the fox news debate for SC for the republicans - i implore you to listen to Ron Paul - his american vision is a restoration of isolationism, abolition of federal reserve etc...its beyond contemplation for effects - a true change in american power projection - it would be a GOP revolution.)

Conservatives and indeed country's should be watching closely. Can he win??

"now we're the sick man in social terms. There is no more pressing concern than dealing with this."

You are quite right, Edison Smith and that is why I am more and more convinced that we have hit the Big Idea.

As much as I admire American libertarianism, theres absolutely no chance that any serious poltiical thinker would even try to consider what Ron Paul is calling for. Ballsy, but unrealistic.

I felt the speech to be rather too negative. Cameron needs to be wary. Dont push the negativity too far or else the message he really wants to put (the remedies) will be overshadowed. Hes seen this before with the "anarchy" comment. The entire speech was forgotten but for that word.

Indeed the timing of the speech is strange. Theres been no build up to that speech at all. I thought the Tories were currently working on the issue of welfare. It was a sudden jump which hasnt been trailed by the media (quite possibly because the Tories didnt let it be known the speech was happening). Where was the build up?

If our youngsters are failed through a lack of parental discipline and therefore respect for others; absent father figures; and an overly liberalised attitude to school discipline and policing, then are we really suprised that our crime and anti social behaviour problems grow and grow? Prison ideally, is not the absolute answer but is also there for the protection of those that choose NOT to steal, assault and murder. The answer (or at least part of it) may be that early on in adolescence, when youngsters offend, they are swiftly carted off to boot camp to straighten them out as their parents and schools have failed to? I am not generally one for such blunt instrument intervention but if society doesn't take control of this huge ongoing problem, then this wayward element will take absolute control of our communities and our lives. Early education (albeit forced), in right and wrong, respect and consequences, may be the lesson that some of our aspiring villains need at an early stage inorder to prevent them progressing to further destroy all around us, as they currently are being allowed to do.

James Maskell I don't actually think the time was "strange" at all but is a response to the ever-rising toll of young people being killed by guns and knives on our streets.

I note (BBC) that Home Secretary Jacqui Smith accused David Cameron of being “alarmist”. This is typical liberal/left denial tactics when faced with the consequences of their soft policies on law & order and proper solutions, and shows how out of touch they are.

Low-level disorder, the culture of aggression and violence, and disrespect for authority, must not be tolerated. Effective deterrent punishments are needed for disorder and violence on one hand, and on the other, the rebuilding of community, the traditional family and the re-establishment of the concept of personal responsibility.

This is excellent stuff from DC, and must be tune with voters’ concerns – I agree more of this please.

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