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Infantile!

Far too late! This should have been done months ago, e.g. in Parliament Square and outside Downing Street. The Open Europe campaign has been lethargic and we should ask why.

Only the Irish referendum can stop the constitutional treaty now. It is time to focus our resources in Dublin.

Frank Field on Daily Politics as we speak demanding a referendum.

He insinuated Brown's machinations over whether to be there for the treaty signing or not is cowardly, and - of course - has nothing to do with diary clashes.

Can we not get Field to defect to us?

Edison Smith, what exactly would the point of Frank Field defecting be? A small media coup for David Cameron for a week or so - and that would be about it. Frank Field will be far better staying off and working in Parliament as he has been as a member of the Labour party. What's more, he probably would not want to defect either, since he may lose his seat at the next election.

As for 'I Want A Referendum', they have been an utterly useless organisation who have tried many pointless publicity stunts like this one without any success. I seem to remember that there was a Referendum Rally in London a month or so ago. Where were they then?

Too little, too late. The deed is done. The campaign has been far too low profile I'm afraid to actually get anything much done and it is only a matter of time before Parliament ratifies the Constitution I'm afraid.

"As for 'I Want A Referendum', they have been an utterly useless organisation who have tried many pointless publicity stunts like this one without any success. I seem to remember that there was a Referendum Rally in London a month or so ago. Where were they then?"

Spot on Chris! "I Want a Referendum" has been a massive failure. CCHQ briefed against the "Rally for a Referendum" even though it was chaired by a Tory MP, Bob Spink. Open Europe was absent, probably because its key people are Tory careerists and did not want to upset CCHQ and the Candidates Department.

Open Europe is actually a pro-EU organisation. Its campaign has siphoned off money that would have better spent by true and dedicated opponents of the EU Super State. If you want to fight the federalist EU and its undemocratic constitution, don't waste your time and money on the quisling Open Europe. Support The Freedom Association and Global Vision instead!

Very, very silly - agree with Sally.

Is this what we fought a war for?

Thank you Justin - Hope you like my new photo in our Facebook Group!

Don't be so bloody defeatist. Rage Rage against the ending of the Light !!

Yes the whole of the Pro referendum Campaign has been fragmented and lacking strong leadership but at least those involved have been doing 'something'

There is still time for all the active forces of opposition to the rise and rise of the EU (nothing against Europe per se) to galvanise and try and get through to the real enemy who are the 'it's inevitable' brigade

Getting Roger Helmer and the Freedom Association to provide a rallying point would be good start.

Clever ads but as ConHome argued the other day... voters need to be convinced that something very real is at stake. They don't mind not having a referendum on something that doesn't really matter.

It hasn't been a good campaign. As always the Eurosceptic voices have been fragmented which is a tragedy as this constitutional will bring no benefits to the people of Britain at all.
Brown and Milliband should hang their heads in shame.

But what has Cameron done to fight this Treaty? We have has a few words from Dave but very little action - just like the EPP u-turn.

I have yet to see any clear evidence that Cameron is a Eurosceptic, especially with Hezza, Hurd and Patten on his Foreign Policy Council.

Parliament should vote down the newly signed EU Constitreaty simply because of its content, without the need for a referendum.

Imagine an amendment simply rejecting the further transfer of legislative power to a body which meets in secret and publishes no Official Report, and the failure to restore British fishing rights in accordance with international law.

How could any Scottish, Northern Irish, East Coast or West Country MP, just for a start, vote against the latter point? And how could any Conservative, Liberal or Labourite vote against the former point? How?

So, where is that amendment? There is no need even to mention a referendum.

A very creative and valid suggestion from David Lindsay. I shall put this to my own local 'Cornerstone' MP forthwith.

I think it's an excelent suggestion from David Lindsay -it wouldn't succeed I don't think, but would be an brilliant last minute coup if it could be managed. Everyone who voted against it would end up looking awful.

Slightly off-thread, but here's a puzzle for you. Earlier this evening I was telephone polled by (I think) Gallup. They were asking questions about the European Emergency Telephone Number - apparently Brussels has its own version of 999, which was new to me.

They were very keen to check they were talking to the youngest adult in the household and whether I was disabled.

I didn't like the tone of the questions and wouldn't answer them e.g did I agree or disagree that this emergency number was "adequately publicised"? Well, I could hardly agree since I'd never heard of it, but if I said I disagreed that suggested I thought it ought to be better publicised when I didn't see any need for it.

I wonder if we'll be reading soon about a shock poll demanding greater support for an EU-wide emergency service? Feels like someone's rolling a log.

13 December 2007 is a bad day for Britain and the nations of the EU. Our Prime Minister has slithered off to Lisbon and signed the Renamed EU Constitution, putting the finishing seal on the process of handing our governance to the bureaucratic dictators of Brussels. He does not want our opinion, just our servile acceptance.

Some posting here may say to me, “Keith, I don’t give a monkey’s. I’m not interested in the EU”. Well that’s fine. But it does not mean the EU is not interested in you; in your freedom, your enterprise and your money. If the Renamed Constitution is rammed through Parliament, with the willing assistance of the Liberal Democrats, we shall have our status changed from “subjects of Her Majesty” to real citizens of the EU empire, with all the unannounced obligations that Brussels dictators wish to impose: typically taxes and military service. There is no mechanism for sacking the new Government in Brussels, if we don’t like it.

Because the EU is a monument to stealth, most people are unaware of how Brussels already affects our lives. All my life, rubbish collection has been the quintessential Local Council service. The recent hoo-ha over charges and collection have their origins in Brussels, as do the loss of our Post Offices and the blight on some land for affordable housing by the Interim Heathlands policy. Between 70 - 80% of our laws and regulations now come from Brussels. A recent Local Government Association (LGA) research unit has calculated that EU legislation affects 50% of the policies implemented by Local Councils - your Council.

In January/February, as this Treaty is rammed through Parliament, there will protests and mock referendums. If we want to save independence and self-government we must act, and act now. It is the people’s Parliament. We shall have only ourselves to blame, if this Treaty goes through.

David Lindsay (13 Dec 2007; 18:17), your point is the best in this thread, and probably the best weapon we can use to counter undesirable EU directives. As it stands, however, the government has a clear majority and I doubt whether any effective challenge can be mounted in this manner.

listening to Hague recently on the radio he was talking about a "completely new situation" once all the other countries have ratified it. He would not say that the Conservative party would include any sort of referendum on the EU at the next election.
So that means that if we have not had a say, and everyone else says we are now treaty bound, that's all right then?
I don't think so, and if the Conservatives don't offer a way of dealing with this situation I will vote for someone who will.

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