Public divided on benefits of immigration

ORB has conducted a poll for tonight's Newsnight.  Here are the main findings from a telephone survey of just over 1,000 people:

• 24% think the Labour Government is doing a good job in its handling of the immigration issue but 72% think it's doing a poor job.
• 44% thought that, overall, immigrants to the UK had helped the country more than they hard harmed it.  41% thought more harm than help.
• By 52% to 45% respondents agreed with the contention that "immigrants pose a threat to employment in the UK."
• By 60% to 36% respondents disagreed with the contention that "immigrants pose a threat to public order and people’s safety."
• By 49% to 46% respondents disagreed with the suggestion that "without immigrants coming to the UK our economy would suffer."
• By 62% to 35% there was agreement that "Britain will soon lose its unique identity if immigration continues as it is."

29% of respondents thought that "David Cameron and the Conservative Party" would do the best job of handling the issue of immigration.  That's slightly more than the 26% who thought that of "Gordon Brown and the Labour Party".  ORB found that there is a big overlap between those inclined to support the Conservatives on immigration and those who think immigration is largely harmful for Britain.

PS Have you bookmarked Newsnight's Big Fat Politics blog?

Comments

[Malcolm Dunn]

Just how much evidence do the 24% of respondents who think that Labour is doing a good job need?

[HF]

Malcom, 24% is probably the core of Labour's vote in the population. A large chunk of which will not vote.

This does show that there is room for us to get across our message of what we would do to tackle immigration.

[601]

24% of the public should not be allowed to vote,because they are clearly insane!

[Votedave]

Labour's lowest ever poll rating was 23.5% in December 1981 (after the SDP broke away and Michael Foot had been in charge for a year).

[Patsy Sergeant]

Malcolm Dunn @ 17.15 - that is exactly the thought that occurred to me when I read that first statistic, only I worded it differently ----

Has it ever occurred to the 24% of respondents who think that Labour is doing a good job in handling the immigration issue, that perhaps the governments words and statements on the subject could do with some actual PROOF of their words working in practice (and more than 'uniforms change' at the airports!!!), otherwise the statements remain JUST THAT WORDS!!!

[Patsy Sergeant]

HF @ 17.31 - 'This does show that there is room for us to get across our message or what we would DO to tackle immigration.' I hope you don't mind HF - they are my capitals.

[Northernhousewife]

Malcolm asks what proof Labour voters need to show them Labour is not doing a good job on this issue.
I sympathise, but do you remember Effie? She may not be around here these days but she is still out there blogging and regularly being accused of suffering from delusions [and not always by me].

[Matt Wright]

To what degree would immigration slow if we radically altered welfare such that the unemployment benefits of native workers were removed if they refused jobs offered to them.

[David Sergeant]

Has it occured to respondents that a large part of the 24% are "ethnic minorities"? They traditionally support Labour and one big reason is that Labour are more likely to let their relatives in. What are they going to say?

Anyone who doubts this has never canvased in a strong Labour constituancy. Up north anyway.

[Yet Another Anon]

Labour's lowest ever poll rating was 23.5% in December 1981 (after the SDP broke away and Michael Foot had been in charge for a year)
Not sure that actually means anything really, potentially the Labour vote in the early 1980s could have gone lower if the Alliance had broken through and if there hadn't been so many Conservative voters worried the effects of a very large Conservative majority.

I am somewhat sceptical about polls, indeed I recall polls showing the Conservative Party on 19% and even as low as 17% at times in the 1990s even towards the middle of the first term - what people tell opinion pollsters frequemtly reflects fashion rather than what they would actually do, no doubt many who never vote say they would vote one way simply not to appear apathetic, many refuse to answer.

There needs to be greater monitoring of people in the current including a biometric database, introduction of internment (if neccessarily indefinitely) for those considered dangerous while awaiting possible trial, secret trials for those where national security matters might be raised during the trial with total bans on reporting and reintroduction of capital punishment.

On the other hand I see no problem with those coming to this country to work and pay taxes here, if they send money home it benefits their home countries in many cases reducing neccessary aid to those and a lot of immigrants are doing work that otherwise would not be done, or indeed would be done more slackly.

[Londoner]

I do not think we can afford to be too sniffy about only Labour's deep core vote thinking they are doing a good job on immigration. Only 29% think we would do the best job - and that looks very like the core vote on our side as well!

David Serjeant - I know you implicitly excluded London from your assertion, but my impression in London, but which has I think also been borne out by other evidence drawn more widely, is that there is not much difference between the concerns of the ethnic minorities about immigration and those of the white British. Indeed the most vociferous objection to present levels of immigration that I have heard recently was from a good friend who is of Indian extraction (the daughter of immigrants in the 1950s). In many cases recent immigrants in less well paid jobs are likely to be amongst those who feel most threatened on the job front (although that was not the basis of my friend's objections).

So even if it is true that, particularly "up north", the Labour party has a grip on the ethnic minority vote, I think it is wrong to assume that that is anything to do with immigration policy per se. It might however be associated with perceived racism (in the past if not now) amongst certain Tory elements...

[Tim]

David Sergeant: ethnic minorities constitute only about 3-4% of the population. And is it any wonder they traditionally vote labour when they have to be subjected to the kind of language you've just displayed.

Trevor Phillips praised David Cameron last week for having the courage to de-humunise the issue of immigration - a concept obviously lost on some ConHome's readers.

[Tony Makara]

Matt Wright, yesterday we had to endure Nigel Hastilow playing Alan B'stard and calling the unemployed lazy. Stopping benefits isn't going to work because it could be successfully challenged legally and denying people money would lead to crime.

Migrant labour is coming into the country because of the strength of the pound. The way around this is to pass legislation stating that foreign workers are paid in their own currency, which they would then have to covert into sterling. At the same time legislation should be passed to say that the minimum wage would only apply to British subjects and not to foreign workers.

[DavisFan]

"By 52% to 45% respondents agreed with the contention that "immigrants pose a threat to employment in the UK." "

This is exactly how economic priorities should be worked out - a poll.

I believe interest rates should be set by a poll, and tax rates should the result of a phone-in competition.

[Patrick Ratnaraja]

I have canvassed in traditional Labour wards and Constituencies. it is true that the ethnnic minorities support Labour. There are also a number of people like myself are Conservatives.

It should also be noted that the relatives of these people have contributed to this country at all levels.

some of the richest people in this Country who have created thousands of jobs are the relatives of those people who were allowed to come to this Country.

It should also be noted that the relatives of those people who buy products of exported from this Country.

Unemployed benefits are not just paid to immigrants. Most of the immigrants would like to work and live a better life.

Visit every single Council estate to find out how many people are immigrants.Majority of them were born here and their Parents were also born here.

[Stephen Yeo]

Tim: ethnic minorities constitute only about 3-4% of the population

Close
So close you could work for the DWP
The ONS however estimated the proportion at 11.8 per cent in 2001, and it seems to have risen since then.

[Tony Makara]

Patrick Ratnaraja, as David Cameron has indicated this question revolves around numbers and the strain on our national infrastructure. On the question of the immigrant vote going to Labour, this is something that Labour expect to the point of being cocksure that the black/asian/immigrant vote will always be theirs. That's why the Conservative party needs to reach out to those communities and provide an alternative. The Asian community in particular with its business culture should be more open to the Conservative message. Labour arrogantly take the support of such communities for granted.

[Traditional Tory]

Has it occured to respondents that a large part of the 24% are "ethnic minorities"? They traditionally support Labour and one big reason is that Labour are more likely to let their relatives in.

Exactly. Why else do you suppose Labour encourages these people to come here while silencing criticism with the usual 'racism' BS.

Meanwhile a Tory candidate speaks the truth and is victimised. Seems the British people can expect little of today's PC Conservative leadership.

[601]

I know that British Asians are very socially conservative but the majority vote Labour any way.Many (like most of the rest of the population)value education,the family believe in a faith,want induvidual freedom to spend their money.They should be natural Tory voters but aren't.

Only when Labour have a clearly failing policy like invading another country do south asians vote for the opposition.

The Conservative party has a long,long way to go before convincing many British asians they should vote for them. Look at their selections for example, not one of the West London constituencies has selected an asian candidate.

It is up to the Conservative party to end underlying hostility shown by a tiny minority of grassroot tories(and don't tell me this hostility is imagined).

Even constituencies that had large Tory marjorities like Brent North and Harrow West have swung hugely to new Labour.

[Conservative Homer]

The public will always be divided on immigration.

We're constantly spoon fed the old chesnut that immigration is 'good for the economy' (presumably bad for everything else, or at least no proof exists otherwise) without ever being told exactly what 'good for the economy' entails. We could take over Sudan, and it would increase our overall GDP, but i doubt many people would think its 'good for the economy'. Looking deeper, the argument seems to be that most immigrants happen to be young men, aged 20-40, not needing costly education thrown at them and being of prime working age, therefore even if they have considerably less than average earning power they arent a 'burden' as such. This appears to be an incredibly short termist view seemingly espoused by politicians as a fix for the pensions crisis, yet furnishing us with a bigger problem 30 or so years down the line when the immigrants themselves retire.
More recently people seem also to be concerned that immigrants are keeping wages down, and if anything acting against the interests of th average working man. (Personally im lay the blame at extortionate immoral taxes, but each to their own)
Add to that the defeatist view typified by the libdems and the public are conditioned to think that we simply cant have secure borders.

[Mr Angry]

It isn't the public who are divided on immigration, it is the liberal metropolitan elite who dominate our political classes.The public are largely solid on immigration believing that enough is now enough but that racist anti immigrant feeling is unacceptable.

Anyone who gives are real credence to a poll on immigration commissioned by the BBC is a fool or a charlatan. I give this poll no credit at all until such time as it is clearly demonstrated that their sampling was not weighted in any way towards those most likely to regard immigration as the all round good thing that the BBC believe it to be as an intrinsic part of their corporate leftist religion.

[Teck Khong]

There appears to be some muddling over the discussion of immigration. To avoid getting emotive about present and potential future difficulties, we must first of all avoid oscillating the discussion between the past immigrants who are now British citizens, and the present and future situations where newcomers are clearly not British.

We have had riots in Brixton, Bradford and other cities. We must now ask to what extent is the present wave as well as any future influx of foreigners likely to destabilise our society in general and produce disharmony in our towns and cities in particular.

This way, we can assess the realities of present and future impact of FURTHER immigration without demonising the decent hard-working and integrated immigrants of yesteryears. Talking about Powellite prophesies or invoking the spectre of Churchill seem to have no place in a proper and balanced debate, apart from inflaming sensitivities and offending patriotism.

We can then, through reasoned politics, formulate measures to deal with present and future immigration in a manner that ensures a harmonious and prosperous Britain.

[David]

"I know that British Asians are very socially conservative but the majority vote Labour any way.Many (like most of the rest of the population)value education,the family believe in a faith,want induvidual freedom to spend their money.They should be natural Tory voters but aren't."

Because many of them feel they wouldn't be welcome in the Conservative Party. Luckily, the Party is making efforts to change that.

Most economic migrants are people who, rather than sit on their backside in poverty or expecting their government to take care of them, get on their bike and go and find work, where ever that is. They work hard, save hard and send money back to support their families.

All this is behaviour Conservatives say they want to see and encourage. Yet when it's displayed by foreigners, a loud minority of the party claim it's a bad thing. That's why what are Tory minded people end up voting Labour.

[James Maskell]

Anyone catch the Question Time Extra programme on BBC News 24? One of the issues discussed was immigration in light of the Hastilow furore. Someone wrote in to say that they agreed with Hastilow and that Enoch was proved right in the end. The presenter just dismissed it "well thats your personal view".

I thought that it was supposed to be impartial. I strongly doubt he would say that to someone speaking against that view. In fact we know he didnt last night. The dismissive tone he used last night showed exactly wehat the programmes view was on the subject and that it cannot be impartial on the issue. Appalling political leaning by the BBC.