Tony Benn: MPs are only lent powers and they must return them undiminished

A few big points from this must-watch ten minute video (not verbatim) produced by UKIP TV:

• You cannot only be in favour of holding referendums when you think you can win them!
• Members of Parliament are lent powers by the electorate, the former Labour minister says, and they must return them undiminished. It is not for MPs to give away powers. Those powers do not belong to them.
• Power in Europe is increasingly concentrated in the hands of unelected people we can't get rid of.
• Peter Mandelson is a powerful figure - he wasn't even elected by the Commons but appointed by Tony Blair.  He doesn't have to listen to anyone.
• We're told that this EU Treaty is a tidying up exercise.  It's a funny form of tidying up that involves tearing up the British Constitution!
• We don't even vote for MEPs directly - we have to vote for a party.  It is the party which decides the candidates.
• If all this goes through Gordon Brown won't be Prime Minister of Britain.  He'll be the Mayor of the Greater British Authority - like Ken Livingstone.  There's a destruction of British democracy taking place - not just a creation of an undemocratic Europe.

The video gets a bit socialistic at the end but otherwise great stuff.

Comments

[Adam-]

The EU has a democracy not dissimilar to that of Iran: free, fair elections for a Parliament that can be vetoed by a "Council of Guardians". In practice the Parliament is purely advisory with no real power, instead hiding a dictatorship which has the look of a genuine democracy from the outside.

[Graham Checker]

V. Impressive.

How small he makes most of our current generation of politicans look!

[John Leonard]

As much as you may disagree with Tony Benn's politics (as I often have) on this he is absolutely right in almost all he says and Kenneth Clarke would be wise in further developing the parties Democracy Task Force to listen to people such as Tony Benn.

There is no point in educating people to a higher standard and then treating them as mindless automatons who work for some secret unspecified 'greater good' (the provision of an easy life for an elite group of bureaucrats and authoritarian politicians). As Benn points out in such circumstances the reaction to such treatment could could be very severe.

As for our current 'Goverment' of political midgets they would be wise to learn from this political giant from when Parliament was sovereign.

It also occured to me that the head political midget (Brown) might learn from Tony Benn (as he certainly didn't from Margaret Thatcher) what conviction means.

[Northernhousewife]

He is like a fine wine that gets better with age. May be we can appreciate him more now he lacks the "potency".
It is odd how we on the right seem to give him more time for consideration and more respect than his natural peers.

[John Leonard]

More of Tony Benns Views on Democracy

Interesting stuff when one thinks of the way this Government runs the country and is so submissive to Brussels!

[david]

Rather strange! during the 70/80's you couldn't find a Tory who had a good word to say about Tony Benn in fact, 'Bloody Bolshevik' was how he was described. During the EEC debate at that time, Tories attacked Benn by saying, that Benn only wanted to take the UK out of the EEC to hand it over to the Soviet Union, a prophet after all 'eh.

[Soothsayer]

Even an old fraud like Benn will occasionally be right, if only by accident. He mentioned the death of democracy once; pity he does not seem to have read "The Death of Democracy" by Hans Hoppe. Democracy is a deeply flawed system which could have been invented by Lenin the ultimate destroyer of democracy. It is a system designed to put all power in the hands of the "have nots", who will of course always want to take from the "haves". We have seen what socialists do once they have usurped power, we saw it in the USSR, we saw it in Mao's China, and Pol Pot's Cambodia, and it's not pretty sight.
We are now seeing the rise and rise of the Political Class, encompassing all three parties, the vast administrative classes, Westminster, and the entailed army of appointees, and party followers. They blend naturally with the EU political system and the Brussels diaspora. Increasingly these hordes are unelected, or as Benn rightly says are party appointees and not directly elected representatives, and here Benn is wrong, our Westminster MPs are not directly elected, they are chosen by the parties also. If I want to vote for a conservative MP, I must vote for the candidate the party appoints

The personal greed of this political class will, I believe, eventually bring about it's downfall. The greed and sloth of our very own MPs gets grosser and grosser, and Brussels is just the same. Witness the Brussels gravy train. How long will the people tolerate this? Our people groan under the burden of taxes to support these Gaderene swine, and Europe will be no better.

[Opinicus]

Speak for England, Wedgie

[Jens Winton]

I think it is being realised by an ever growing portion of the British public that the EU's undemocratic hold over our country brazenly shows up how impotent our MPs are. I would like to think we have done a good service to those of you out there that rubbish our efforts, by carrying Mr. Benn's speech. Only the utterly naive can now think that reform of the EU to lessen its grip is still possible. Every new EU treaty seeks to tighten its hold over our life. Keep it simple and move on: Withdraw from the EU and awaken our slumbering energies once again as we pursue British, not EU, interests elsewhere.

[Tony Makara]

Even the Communist party are backing David Camerons call for a referendum. It just goes to show that this is a matter that goes beyond politics and is a question of principle. Do we want a prime minister who was elected by nobody, who was afraid to ask our people for a mandate in a general election and who refuses to allow us a vote on our nations sovereignty?

[Anon]

"Rather strange! during the 70/80's you couldn't find a Tory who had a good word to say about Tony Benn in fact, 'Bloody Bolshevik' was how he was described. During the EEC debate at that time, Tories attacked Benn by saying, that Benn only wanted to take the UK out of the EEC to hand it over to the Soviet Union, a prophet after all 'eh."

The "Benn proposition" is a huge chunk of the eurosceptic position and has been for a long time.

[Henry Mayhew - Ukipper]

We are beginning to live in Interesting Times. I'd rather we hadn't got to this point.

[The Huntsman]

On matters such as this Benn is on the money. It is a shame that he allows his socialism and penchant for the conspiracy theory to overshadow his message. On the former he shows a considerable acuity of vision; on the latter he remains bonkers & barking.

For intellectual rigour concerning the political process and the theory of politics he reminds me greatly of Enoch Powell, with whom he shares a sorry record of wasting a good brain.

He puts Brown's future power at altogether too high a level, though. I routinely call him 'The Town Rat Catcher' on my blog as I reckon that that is as high as he might aspire after 01/01/2009 when the Union Constitution comes into force.

[Richard]

"He mentioned the death of democracy once; pity he does not seem to have read "The Death of Democracy" by Hans Hoppe."

This is indeed an excellent book although I can't see it converting Benn to anarcho-capitalism!

[Derek]

Benn is indeed a conviction politician, who on this issue has been right all along. He is believable because he has never changed his mind, unlike Blair who has flip-flopped on the issue.

I admire Benn, even though I disagree with him on many other issues.

[michael mcgough]

I hope William Hague watches this.

[Bruce Bould]

What I don't understand about all you anti-EU whingers is - you had the chance in 1983 to vote for a party which promised to withdraw the UK from Europe.

Did any of you vote Labour in 1983? I suspect none of you. You voted for a Tory party led by M.Thatcher which proudly proclaimed itself to be the party of Europe.

Serves you right really. If only you'd supported Mr Foot back then we wouldn't be where we are now.

Interesting that since Labour changed into a pro-EU party in the early 90s it hasn't lost an election, while the Tories haven't won one since they became antis.

[Graeme Archer]

Could all tories just shut up about how great Benn is supposed to be? So he's in favour of democracy. He reminds me of nothing so much as Johnson's remark - like dogs on their hind legs - not done well - the surprise is that it's done at all.

Benn may happen to wish for a referendum on the constitution. Do not be so stupid as to think that simply because our views coincide on this one single isshoo (ha ha) that he has developed sage-like properties. He is a vanity-driven, hypocritical socialist, who was on the wrong side of every substantive post-war socio-political discussion. He may just have sufficient self-awareness to regret that and to be trying to make amends for his half-century of intellectual failure. Good for him if so; but I'm really not interested. And the day I need the backing of Tony Benn to feel I've made the right intellectual or political choice about anything is the day I'll give up thinking.

[michael mcgough]

"So he's in favour of democracy."

Yes ,great isn't it.

He is a vanity-driven, hypocritical socialist, who was on the wrong side of every substantive post-war socio-political discussion.

So is the EU is not a substantial issue?With consistent views on the EU he can hardly be called hypocritical.

I suggest you 'think' before calling people stupid--------your output is a bit like that from the statisticians at the ONS.

[John Smith]

This whole debate, and the elephant in the room it's dancing around, is the demonstration of why conservatives are always wrong. Otherwise, we'd still be back in caves throwing spears at antelope, because to change that would be unthinkable. The ones who stepped out of the cave and planted crops would be, to conservatives, heretics who by investing in the future rather than hunting for the present were endangering the group and must be stopped at all costs.
Obviously, progress won.
A thousand years ago, Divine Right of Kings was in vogue, and whilst conservatives would shudder in their frilly boots about the idea of changing it - progress won.
In this way, conservatives always find themselves in that very strange position of arguing tooth and nail that the results of the reforms their fathers considered radical and dangerous are sacrosanct, and must be kept as they are, without modification. Every single generation is always, without fail, proven wrong.
No constitution is any different to the rest of this, it is a simple law of nature: things change. Bicameral semi-democracy with a limited Monarchy and Prime Minister drawn from the Commons has been, for most of British history, an unthinkable abberation - simply being in vogue at this point does not change that. Powers have always moved around, new ones are created, old ones are forgotten. So... if we want to argue that the lack of constituency links for MEPs makes them less accountable, let's argue that. If we want to argue that the indirectly elected nature of the Commission is unacceptable, and it should be replaced with a directly elected head, let's argue about that. But to suggest that everything must be frozen exactly as it was in 1980 for the rest of time is... really, quite risible.

(Disclaimers: By 'We', I mean people generally, I'm not, as I feel is clear, pretending to be a Conservative party member. By 'conservative', I mean people who argue for strict conservatism, not the Conservative Party, which does very occasionally get things right)

[Graham D'Amiral]

You can admire the fact that Tony Benn shows great courage by standing up for his deeply held beliefs and at the same time be thankful he never had the chance to destroy the country with his brand of dangerous and deluded socialism.

Of course it is entirely natural that left wing politicians should be anti European, as they regard the EU as an elitist group of wealthy capitalist nations, that gives no voice to the weak and powerless, at risk of being lynched I'm yet to see what the right wing case for coming to the same conclusion is.

[James Maskell]

If we didnt know better, Benn is sounding very conservative!

How will the Labour Party view this? I thought he was going for a return against Malcolm Rifkind at the next General Election.

[Richard]

"Serves you right really. If only you'd supported Mr Foot back then we wouldn't be where we are now."

Have you read Labour's 1983 manifesto?

[Bruce Bould]

Yes I did read it Richard. I didn't vote Labour in 1983 either, because I'm while I'm of a leftish liberal persuasion I am also in favour of closer European co-operation, and so I didn't agree with their platform.

My point was if, as a number of foaming frothers seem to be saying on these boards, the EU is the single most important issue ever to imperil our nation state etc etc, why didn't you do something about it when you had the chance - and BEFORE the Single European Act and Maastricht?

It's too late now. Foot gave you a chance to vote for withdrawal. You could supported him, safe in the knowledge most of his ridiculous domestic manifesto would never have got off the ground, and you'd have your life's dream - a "free" UK.

[Daniel]

Well, Bruce, we could have cooperation in Europe without the need of supranational institutions with legislative powers over every EU member country.

Intergovernmental cooperation with full sovereignty for every member respected works very well too. In fact the WTO has achieved more in the past 20 years with its intergovernmental model than the EU with its supranational model.

For EU politicians and naive (or not so naive) pro-EU types integration is a holy grail. There must be integration and more of it all the time even if it might not be good. To them integration and harmonization are the ends and not means to an end.

Remember communism and fascism? They liked harmonization too.

100% pro UK and pro Europe
100% anti EU (EU = bad for Europe)

[Michael Hewlett]

Whether you love or loathe him. One can only be impressed by the passion Benn has for politics and democracy.

This is in stark contrast to Labour's current crop such as Jim Murphy who possess a cold, withdrawn character displaying no personality. I am dismayed that careerists such as Murphy are representing us in Europe...

[None of the above]

"Could all tories just shut up about how great Benn is supposed to be? So he's in favour of democracy. He reminds me of nothing so much as Johnson's remark - like dogs on their hind legs - not done well - the surprise is that it's done at all." - Graeme Archer

I happen to respect conviction politicians above all others. I cannot respect any politician who follows the party line without courage or conviction and advocates one measure one week (eg ID cards) and then does a volte face the next in a miraculous damoclean conversion and opposes the measure that his party previously supported because the party line has changed.

Nick Budgen had it right. Far more people will respect Benn, Dalyell, Powell et al than the shapeshifters who have no principles. Politicians without principle are simply vacuous placeholders.