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Hasn't Brown ever heard the expression: "WHEN YOU FIND YOURSELF IN A HOLE, STOP DIGGING!"

Brown is being slaughtered in the media for stealing Tory policies so what do they do? They continue to steal Tory policies.

Today the over-made up Brownite-clown Andy Burnham says the Government want to change the tax regime to help FAMILIES.

Precisely what George Osborne said at the Tory conference!

The differnce is, when Osborne says it you know he means it, when Brown and co say it you know it's just a load of spin that will never happen.

In case anybody didn't know it already, Brown has proved in the last ten days that he is totally unfit to be Prime Minister of this country.

Doesn't he realise that this country is a DEMOCRACY and that it is not democratic to have a Government whose main aim is to DESTROY THE OPPOSITION?

"It also showed that Cameron's rating went up by 5% during conference whilst the Party's went up by 13%, perhaps because he's starting from a higher point."

Very possibly, and also very good news

It's often been parroted that Cameron is popular, the party isn't. If the party's popularity is, finally, starting to rise then this can only be a good thing

It was a poll of Lab/Lib held marginal seats. It's hardly surprising that Labour candidates were seen as stronger.

Adrian Pepper managed to lose in the constituency that I live in at the 2005 election despite it being an ultra marginal labour seat that was formerly a safe tory seat from its creation until 1945 and then again from 1950-1997 due to his terrible campaign, so should we really be listening to him?

"Mr Brown was on course for the same 66 majority Labour had at the last election. Even when boundary changes are taken into account, which are estimated to give the Tories up to 15 extra seats, Labour would have had a majority of just under 40 seats"

I know it's early on a Saturday but, wuh? The same 66 seat majority with under 40 seats?

Labour stealing more Tory policies....
Labour is both financially and intellectually bankrupt.

I'm not really convinced that these personality polls are much help given the upheval of the last couple of weeks and that we are in it for the long haul now.

I think policy is where Labour are most weak - Brown's rhetoric of 'setting out his vision' doesn't jive with his answer to the journalist who asked where his mandate came from - answer: its the manifesto. The guy is getting hinself, and everyone else completely confused over what he intends to do. I'm convinced he doesn't have a clear idea himself. As Philip Stephens pointed out in yesterday's FT, this block of ideas happened to Callahan and is a sure sign that a government has lost sight of its purpose. Amazing when one considers how long Brown has coveted the PM job. What a crazy situation we all find ourselves!

Labour stealing more Tory policies....

Labour is only stealing the tiny minority of Tory policies which have actually proved popular with the public - ie tax cuts.

The rest of the Cameroon agenda consists of policies which were copied from Nulabour in the first place together with loony PC green nonsense that not even the LibDebs would touch with a bargepole.

The big surprise of the Tory conference was that it actually came up with a couple of sensible votewinners.

For once.

Dale, Adrian Pepper failed to take Burton due to nearly 8% of the local electorate voting for the BNP, UKIP and Veritas. They wanted Britain to withdraw from the EU, the Conservatives did not. There is nothing Pepper could have done about that.

Pepper got 38% of the vote, almost the same as Maggie Punyer whose husband is a regional campaign director for the Party. She was put on the Priority List....

Dale is a nasty and factional smear merchant. Burton Conservatives should expel him before he causes more damage.

Dale, Adrian Pepper's campaign reduced the Labour majority to a wafer thin 1400 votes, making Burton a must win seat. I am fortunate to have been chosen to fight the seat at the next election, and have no doubt we will win it this time. We need all the help we can get, so if you would like to join our campaign, please email me - [email protected]

Trad Tory 11.30 - Many ideas that arose from the policy groups were just "proposals". The "policy" agenda was outlined in Cameron's conference speech. You have underestimated "Dave".

Is Andy Burnham really a cabinet minister...?

He seems to have switched allegiances.

Andrew Griffith's post suggests that he does not know "Dale" who could be a troll from another party or just a trouble-maker. Andrew should have nothing to do with "Dale" who could damage his campaign from the inside.

Oberon Houston @ 11.21 - 'The guy is getting himself, and everyone else completely confused over what he intends to do. I am convinced he doesn't have a clear idea himself.'

I am sure you are right, I posted a couple of months ago, that if you spend 10/11years in a back room poring over statistics, and methodically devising ever more complicated ways of taking money off the taxpayer - AND enjoying it, as labour of love so-to-speak! After that, 'coming out into the open' (exposing yourself, in a manner of speaking) and having to deal daily with a quite different schedule, having to mix all the time with a far wider selection of people, rather than working in a secluded office protected by a small, close group of young underlings, the ability to change ones personality to cope with this change and what it entailed, would need a far more versatile man than Mr. Brown is - versatile is not a word that one would use to describe Mr. Brown!

I would imagine that he wants to keep such a tight ideological hold on party members and policies, that policies when presented lose any innovation and spontaneity in the process of being tailored to produce the money-making aspect that Brown seems to regard as essential to anything he suggests!!

However, he does have one other aim (apparently!), he really, really, really wants to destroy David Cameron, not necessarily the conservative party, in fact he would probably like to keep that as a kind of 'TAME LOSER' that he could make fun of, but DC he is top of Brown's obliteration list. SOOO what we should do is to encourage David Cameron as much as we can!!!!?

It would be a mistake if the Conservatives allowed it to be believed that its only the IHT policy Labour are stealing, which makes the Conservatives look like a one policy party, which its not, and its not the only policy Labour are stealing, for Labour are in fact stealing much of the Conservative 2005 manifesto.

Matrons in hospitals.

Campaign to get our hospitals clean( a shame Labour didn't try to steal this policy earlier)

Points based immigration system.

Border police force.

Choice in public services.

etc...

Unfortunately like all counterfeiters, what they produce is only a copy, it isn't like the original, and only produce it to con the other person.


The article is rather confusing. If, after boundary changes were taken into account, Labour's lead would have been under 40, then it's pretty obvious why no snap election would have been called. A potential majority of under 40 simply offers no margin of error during a campaign.

Traditional Tory appears to have ignored the other half of the popular policy- an effective tax rise on the rich through the non-domicile proposal. It's not tax cuts made on the fly that's popular, it's a sound and fair approach to finances.

Regarding the statement from the Treasury on family tax breaks, it's interesting that Brown's tactic here seems to be that he's trying to neutralise the Tories headlines on policy by adopting them himself.

Is there a possible tactical advantage here by taking the hit on stealing these policies in order to force the Tories into more radical and unpopular proposals that will also work to undermine Cameron's change agenda and push him off the coveted centre ground? What is for certain is that a dynamic has been released here and we need to think about it carefully. There is a threat, but also an opportunity. The threat is that Labour manouver to become the standard bearers for the status-quo (dangerous for a party in power so long). We need to dominate the policy debate, our current strength is our ability to this. Labour's only weapon against this is an old one and that is fear. If we continue to engage with the public in a spirited, honest and genuine way that talks to their hopes and fears then Brown and New Labour are finished.

COMMENT OVERWRITTEN BY THE EDITOR.

THIS THREAD IS BECOMING TOO PERSONAL.


Isn't it amazing how once we returned to a balanced agenda that incuded traditional Conservative views and policies on topics of concern to the electorate, such as tax and immigration, as well as the green and leftish stuff, our support has picked up noticeably.

I hope that the lesson of all this; that the voters DO want to hear about things other than Steve Hilton's obsessions, is well learned and that Cameron continues to offer something for everyone and not just for those who regret Bliar's departure.

Unfortunately the poll and articles on which this thread is based are highly dubious. I have posted elsewhere in detail why this is but to ensure brevity I will make just one point.

The CTP poll taken after the Conservative conference used a sample of 443 people. This is well below the generally accepted threshold of 1000 people used to provide national polls (Yougov oftens uses the views of 2000 for its national polls).

As this poll covers 112 constituencies it means that the opinions of 4 people in every marginal constituency covered were sought. As the average voter base for each constituency in England is 85,000 I cannot see that this poll tells us anything at all.

There will be more candidates standing in most of these constituencies than there were people questioned by CTP.

As for the assumptions made by Messrs Pierce and Pepper on the back of this poll? All I can say is that from my perspective they are totally spurious and completely misleading.

Now this is what I call a poll. Article on the Telegraph web-site.


NEW ICM POLL FOR SUNDAY TELEGRAPH


Tories have 7% lead

Cons 43%
Lab 36%
LibDem 14%

The Telegraph's poll in 112 most marginal seats led to headlines by the paper as giving Brown a win in a snap election.

THIS IS TOTAL RUBBISH

There was a sample of 1077 divided between these seats. Therefore as as first comment, no single seat with an average of less than 10 people polled can be regarded as worth separate consideration.

Secondly, and as was NOT mentioned in the paper 638 of those polled were interviewed BEFORE the Tory conference when Labour were well ahead in the national polls and 443 AFTER that Conference when the Tories had eliminated that lead. So since they don't mention it they hope you won't notice, Nb they refer to a 59-41 spkit in the sample as being about half !!!

Then there is the normal sampling error said to apply of ± 3 percentage points in 95 out of 100 cases for results around the 50% mark (margins of error will be smaller for results lying further from this mid-point). But since these were in effect two separate polls measuring at different points in time these margins would be much higher

Why do people commission, read and publish such drivel?

and please cannot the blog be a bit more critical on sduch methodology?


Just to state the obvious;

These findings were published far too late, and as a consequence are out of date and irrelevant.

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