MING CAMPBELL TO RESIGN

Imminently. It seems to have taken the media and the Lib Dems by surprise.

6.35pm: Vince Cable (Deputy, and now Acting, Leader) and Simon Hughes (President of the Party) have just given a statement outside Cowley Street, confirming that Ming has decided to resign with immediate effect. Ming won't be making a statement tonight. Hughes said:

"Throughout all his political life Ming has taken all his decisions, and this decision is one of them, in the interests of our party and liberal democracy in Britain."

They didn't take any questions (ignoring "did you wield the dagger, did you wield the dagger?!").

6.45pm: He apparently told Party officials that he felt he wasn't able to turn their fortunes around and as there won't be an election for some months he thought it was time to give way. Shirley Williams says it's time for a new generation.

6.50pm: Both Lembit Opik and Lord Steel have made accusations about ageism.

6.55pm: Gordon Brown has released a statement saying Ming is "A man of great stature and integrity who has served his party and country with distinction".

Comments

[Anthony Broderick]

Nooo, save him!

[MrB]

As I just said on the news thread, I'm surprised there wasn't more of a fight than this, and I feel quite sorry for poor old Ming. He tried his best and delivered a good conference speech, but with DC and GB fighting it out no one noticed.

The main question now is, will Clegg or Huhne improve things in the long-term for the Lib Dems, and if so, at whos expense? I really have no idea!

[Elvis]

Damn...!

[601]

What will happen to the Tory lead when Clegg takes over? The media will protray Clegg as one of the more right-wing Libdems. If anyone actually listens to what he says it would be clear he is not at all right wing and it is up to top Tories to show this. (He said he wanted an amnesty for illegal migration.

[True Blue]

http://politics.guardian.co.uk/libdems/story/0,,2191673,00.html

[eugene]

I personally find this sad.

The LibDems need policies, honesty and instead of instinctively sleeping with Labour (who the majority of the British electorate despise), need to find a role for themselves outside of the Labour Party....they do not need a new leader.

It is desperation and clutching at straws.

[David Brackenbury]

That was ruthlessly efficient!

[Phil Whittington]

Notice how it's Hughes and Cable making the statement (according to the Beeb)

So both Huhne and Clegg have the luxury of not having blood on their hands!

[chrisblore]

Good call. See: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7045833.stm

Whilst we can all sit and laugh at the Lib Dems for a day, I fear this will herald the arrival of a much stronger leader for them and therefore a greater threat to our vote.

[Tim Worrall]

That's a shame - we could have destroyed the Lib Dems once and for all. We shall just have to hope for a leadership election like their last one.

[Moral minority]

The BBC has confirmed that Campbell resigned a few minutes ago.

[Henry Rogers]

Decent old stick, but does look so old. Trouble is he's a few years younger than me which I find worrying.

[Traditional Tory]

Oh dear!

Looks like there may finally be some hot competition for control of the soggy centre of British politics, lately dominated by our Dave.

What with £8m (+ costs) neatly flushed down the toilet, Cameron'a conference champagne is looking decidedly flat this evening.

[chrisblore]

Shirley Williams says it's time for a new generation does she? Well can we start with moving her on please? She really gets on my nerves but the BBC seem to love her!

[Be tha change]

Second Lib Dem leader killed by Cameron (-:

[Sam S]

It's a great shame that Ming has been forced to resign. Even though he may have different views to the Conservatives, his integrity and statesmanship should not be forgotten.

Cameron should now worry, Nick Clegg threatens the party's revival.

[Tory Lady]

It looks like the conclusion of Mings Reign has massive conseqences for the Cornwall Conservative Party. In recent weeks polls have shown that all six seats in Cornwall would go conservative for the first time in living memory. It now seems that whether it is Clegg, Huhne or Laws, the liberal democrats will wrest poll control back again from us, with any of the potential younger leaders. A bonus of course is that if the youthful and spiritrd Cornish girl Julia Goldsworthy becomes Deputy Leader the Cornish Conservatives will have real trouble. Of course what still dogs the Cornish Conservatives is the massive split in their membership which was caused by troubles surrounding Ashley Crossley, a former PPC in mid cornwall at the last election.

[Comstock]

If they'd kept Kennedy the drinking thing would have been history a long time ago.

Interesting times ahead.

[Duncan]

The key problem for Ming was not his age, it was his style. Ming is about the same age as Michael Howard and Ken Clarke but they have much younger personalities and don't present themselves as tired, retiring great uncle type figures. He had an old inner age and that was his undoing. He resembled a politician who was more 1950s than 2007 and the British public could not relate to him in the way they can with someone like David Cameron. The way now looks clear for Nick Clegg to take the crown from Chris Huhne, a battle of two former MEPs.

[Cleo]

Nick Clegg and Chris Hulme are both dangerous to the Conservative Party's revival, especially if the party places too much emphasis on core issues, including Europe.

[Tony Makara]

Ming indicated he would work with Labour in the event of a hung parliament. Charles Kennedy said he would not prop up a Labour government. The Liberals are so fickle. What are the views of the leading contenders? Are they warm towards Labour?

[matthew]

must we suffer 'Traditional Tory' undermining the party on every thread and at every possible opportunity? There is no reason to publish his relentless negative trolling, particularly about the very successful conference, which was in no way exclusively Cameron's.

I thought this site was trying to take out the trash. I'd much rather the likes of 'passing lefty' post, than nasty trolls like TT.

[Ash Faulkner]

Oh bother.

[Moral minority]

Campbell's successful battle, against the odds, with lymphatic cancer took a lot out of him both physically and mentally. He should not have stood for Leader after Kennedy was ousted.

[Henry Rogers]

"....Cameron'a conference champagne is looking decidedly flat this evening...
October 15, 2007 at 18:45"

I really do wonder if "Traditional Tory" is a Nulab troll. In his longer posts I rarely see much evidence of good natured, down to earth, traditional toryism and in his shorter ones he rarely resists a dig at Cameron. Even though I voted for for the other ocandidate I couldn't help noticing that I was in a small minority and I doubt a re-run would produce a different result today and DC has shown pretty good qualities under the barrage of criticism before the Tory conference.

If not Nulab, does Trad.T really want to smash the present set up and found a new right of centre party on the rubble? Since this is still a free country that's a perfectly respectable point of view, supported by some very articulate spokesmen. However it's all a bit too zealous to be traditionally Tory.

[The Huntsman]

On Monday of last week I wondered on my blog if the explicit delay to 2009 was designed to ease Ming's passing.

My instinct was right.

see http://tinyurl.com/yup5lv

[jonboy]

I would say the tories have problems now.
Big problems, especially if Clegg takes over.
How long will Cameron keep his lead?

[Ted]

See the Eeyore's are back - why should Ming's resignation be bad news for the Conservatives?

The LDs first lost their support to Labour, then latterly to the Conservatives. Brown has proved a disappointment to Polly Toynbee and the liberal/left and has been exposed as a weak vacillating leader. An attractive centre-left LibDem leader will be a great magnet to the disaffected Labour supporter.

We have a united leadership, attractive centre right policies. The Lib Dems have a mixed bag of policies targeted at the left but were overshadowed by Brown and lumbered with a Brown leaning Fife MP who was primarily anti-Tory. Now Labour will have opposition from both sides.

[Votedave]

Who's to say this won't affect the Labour Party any more than the Conservatives? Let's keep calm and not jump to conclusions, hmm?

[Jaz]

It's not all bad for us..

A right-wing libdem leader could split their own party. Much of the libdems are "ex-labour" if they elect a tough right winger, especially on europe it could split their own party.

Why vote for a Chris Hune, when you can get the same thing with the Tories with a REAL chance of succeeding a G.E.

"....Cameron'a conference champagne is looking decidedly flat this evening...
October 15, 2007 at 18:45"

I guess you missed everything the last few weeks. Cameron overturned a 11% labour leader, into a 7% conservative lead in 2 weeks. He saved us facing a quick election. Made Brown look like a complete idiot (not easy given nothing seems to hit him these last few years).

[Tony Makara]

Ming looked to be in trouble during the Southall bi-election when he was totally upstaged by Paddy Ashdown. Watching the two of them on TV Ming looked like a rank'n'file activist while Paddy hogged the limelight and did all the talking. Ming just didn't have enough magnetism to be a leader.

[Old Hack]

Flipside: This is perhaps good news?

A leadership battle with some very real divisions within the LDs about what to do in a hung Parliament. That may be quite damaging to the LDs

Any leadership contest causes partisan rifts and the fact that Ming was the 'unity' leader means that some of the past rifts that have been covered up are re-exposed?

We will need to watch who declares but this could turn into a shambolic parade if every egocentric Lib Dem including Kennedy and Opik decide to try their luck?

In the longer term a Clegg leadership might pose issues, but even that might be interesting if the radical left take issue with a quasi-modernising small-government neo-classsical Clegg leadership.

Take this resignation for what it is, the gradual disintegration of the Liberal Democrats I say. Enjoy!!

[Michael Hewlett]

The week for Brown has just got worse.

Ming was the only person making Brown look young!!

[Traditional Tory]

Matthew - must we suffer 'Traditional Tory' undermining the party on every thread and at every possible opportunity?

I've posted just twice, Matthew, and as I have been away that is the first time I have posted at all in two or three days.

A little exaggeration on your part, n'est ce pas?

[Treacle]

Fear not!

Charles Kennedy is still clearly outraged about his ousting by the young bloods and I wouldn't put it past him to stand - the Rank & file, mad nutters to a man and woman would probably give him enough support to turn the leadership contest into a bloodbath

Heat up the popcorn and open a beer, it's going to be a good one!!1

[Oscar Miller]

C4 is already portraying Nick Clegg as the right wing candidate, so that prediction is correct. There will inevitably be a lib bounce in the polls - just because they'll be in the news for a bit. But Clegg (who will probably win the leadership) is a lightweight. He is no contender for Cameron. The Conservatives have the policies and these are now striking a chord with ordinary people. If it wasn't for the thick wall of an absurdly pro Brown media (how have they been nobbled like this?) trying to protect gutless Gordon the message would get through a lot quicker. But it will get through. Conservatives just need to keep up their momentum and party morale.

[Anthony Gearing]

Have you read the Resignation Letter - very very short. Pushed? http://www.libdemvoice.org/mings-resignation-letter-in-full-1488.html

[Ashton]

From my experience as a webboard moderator, I can smell WUMs and trolls from a mile off. TT has the definate bouquet, and fulfills all the criteria we use on our own webboards to warrant account deletion.

As for the thread in question, we must now be worried about Lib Dem resurgance. Hopefully they will still be taken as seriously as they deserve to be regardless of their new leader, and if it's Clegg, the activists will force him back to the left.

I hear rumours Ming was in Sarah Teather's office trying to get her to stand.... PLEASE!

Although it does seem fashionable to copy the Conservatives in todays political climate, I think the LibDems are copying "Change to win" a little too frequently to succeed

[Votedave]

I must say I was suprised Sir Ming didn't make the announcement himself, and that it was done by Hughes and Cable.

[Moral minority]

I smell a rat. Campbell will not speak to the media tonight. The BBC is interviewing the old left-wing members of the Lib Dems who are naturally talking up Ming's pathetic leadership performance and legacy of halved electoral support. Their spin lacks credibility.

There is no sign of the Orange Bookers tonight. My guess is that they threatened to resign from the LD Shadow Cabinet if Ming stayed on. If so, the left and the grandees will try to exact revenge. Prepare for a bloody factional war.

[Cath]

You can only beat the team that is put in front of you. Just because Cameron hasn't had the opportunity to challenge a Clegg/Huhne LibDem party doesn't mean he couldn't. The Green Anti War constituency is shrinking by the day. The Tories should not be seen to care what happens to the LibDems. Leave the worrying to Broon and the NuLab agents in Lib/Lab marginals.

[mark]

Well,i think it's a shame that youth,image,spin etc seem more important than age and experience.Ming never stood a chance in this media obsessed age.I feel sorry for him.I'm a Tory but i feel uncomfortable with politics in general these days.Leaves a bad taste the way leaders of any party get thrown on the scrap heap as soon as they hit a rough patch.Those who are gloating,shame on you.

[Northernhousewife]

The Lib Dems would have been squeezed anyway. Anyone who hates Labour is going to vote for the best chance to get rid of them. As long as we are unified and have such a strong team up front, that is us.
It is not all poor old Ming's fault although I think he made a mistake in aligning himself too closely with Labour. It always looked like Brown got the best of the deal.
Charles Kennedy managed to pull off the miracle of looking both to the left when targeting Labour and to the right when targeting us. I doubt if anyone else could pull that off. I am not sure he could now.
We have to remember that a weak Lib Dem vote is a double-edged sword ; we need to take seats from them but we can't afford them to collapse against Labour. Since Brown started to steal our clothes,they have a choice :
1.join us and try and fight for lower taxes [not likely ].They might get somewhere with council tax but alot of people are scared they will end up paying more and I bet that is most of those who liked the sound of our IHT policy.
2. Try and fighting it out in the middle and get squashed, picking up tactical protest votes.
3. Sneak in beside Labour who are now too afraid to make the left-wing case [because Murdoch won't like it] for taxation, free flowing immigration and Maggie bating etc.
At least any "bounce" is now, 2 years before an election. Whilst we are on a high the new guy might not get the attention he deserves. Any attempt to cast him as the man to deal with the Cameron threat only serves to show we are setting the terms of the race.
One copies our policies, the other our man?

[Dale]

'Nick Clegg and Chris Hulme are both dangerous to the Conservative Party's revival, especially if the party places too much emphasis on core issues, including Europe.'

Your like a broken record.

You have already been proven wrong on tax, and now that europe has become such an emotive issue it is rediculous to say we should ignore it.

[Yet Another Anon]

I'm surprised there wasn't more of a fight than this, and I feel quite sorry for poor old Ming. He tried his best and delivered a good conference speech
Menzies Campbell certainly has been a tireless campaigner for the Liberal Party in the 1970s up until 1988, the Alliance and since 1988 the Liberal Democrats. He certainly put in far more effort than for example Charles Kennedy who seemed to prefer to cruise on populist lines on single issues, he was far better informed than Charles Kennedy, but there is no doubt that Menzies Campbell was a bit worn out after decades of campaigning and spells of illness, and would have done a lot better as leader 10 or 15 years ago.

Although Chris Huhne, David Laws and Nick Clegg will be talked of as being the favourites, I suspect that Vincent Cable will go from being acting leader to being leader. The problem for any leader of the Liberal Democrats is that they have lost the issues they latched onto in the last parliament and are going to struggle to hold onto the votes they gained in 2005. Many Muslim voters and working class voters in old industrial areas have been drifting back to Labour and the Conservative Party has also started to revive, it may not be long before whoever takes over as leader is also struggling to match up to the results of the middle to late parts of last parliament through to the last General Election and many who had been baying for Menzies Campbell to go could end up being bemused about how things don't go as well as they imagined it would.

[Peter Hatchet]

Good news in one respect - it pushes out of the news any negativity over the denied £8.2 million donation!

I wouldn't worry about his successor too much, the Lib Dems will still get heavily squeezed and if they pick a "lefty" they'll damage Labour in marginals more than us.

[Dale]

'Nick Clegg and Chris Hulme are both dangerous to the Conservative Party's revival, especially if the party places too much emphasis on core issues, including Europe.'

Your like a broken record.

You have already been proven wrong on tax, and now that europe has become such an emotive issue it is rediculous to say we should ignore it.

[Moral minority]

The Clegg supporters are now starting to talk up their man. It's just like the by-elections - campaigning starts before the corpse is cold!

[Tony Makara]

I'm just wondering whether 'The straight candidate' Simon Hughes will get the leadership. He has been upping his profile lately, probably with an eye on Ming leaving. Simon Hughes has a lot of baggage which might not work in the Liberals favour with Joe Public.

[Yet Another Anon]

Notice how it's Hughes and Cable making the statement (according to the Beeb)
Menzies Campbell is about the closest to a grandee the Liberal Democrats have, he spent years fighting hopeless seats and making speaches and then he's been a frontbencher for donkey's years, he's carried on despite years of illness and maybe even believed he could be the first PM of his party and it's forerunners since the 1920s and he probably is finding it difficult to accept that after 2005 that it has gone so wrong for the Liberal Democrats. Now he has no future as a frontbencher and for the first time in decades he will probably no longer be representing anyone or being interviewed every day and it's going to be a major adjustment for him, so it isn't really surprising if he feels too tired and emotional to appear for now.

If he does re-appear I imagine it will be running for the EU Parliament, or an elected Lords, or as an MSP.

[Jim Tague]

Just like the illusionary election...this resignation has nothing at all to do with recent polling results.

Wherever you sit in the broad Tory church, the Conservatives have rattled a few cages over the last few weeks.

We need to hold firm and keep up the good work.

[Gwendolyn]

I agree with Matthew and Henry Rogers. There is nothing traditional about Trad Tory - as evidenced in his rants. The notion of 'on the other hand' never appears in his diatribes, it is sheer bombast. Most civilized debaters will listen to an argument and put forward a different approach, an idea, a correction, it can be fun to do, but with Trad one does not get that opportunity, he just wants to distort everything, he's your original clunking fist.

[Edison Smith]

This is cracking stuff!

We have Gable and Hughes redhanded, holding an impromptu announcement in the street. Campbell is nowhere to be seen (I can only assume he's in a lead-lined coffin as we speak, floating down the Thames...).

Then we have the protestations of Dame Shirley Williams, saying Campbell's regicide is justified nbecause it's now time for the 'young talent' of the party to step up. (Err, that would be 50+ year old Chris Huhne, who is hanging on to a marginal seat by his fingernails, Simon Hughes again, and the possible second coming of Messiah Kennedy!).

The line is 'Sir Menzies was planning on there being an election in 2007' What nonsense! No one assumed in early 2006 that there would be an election in 2007. Back then, everyone assumed Blair was aiming for another full term (as he promised during the 2005 election).

And for an orderly transition to take place, surely it is many times preferable for Sir Ming to remain leader until his replacement is selected, just like Howard in 2005??

Nick Clegg is their best bet. But personally, I'd go for Julia Goldsworthy. They'd get a good press for selecting a woman, it would be refreshing, and she's much nicer to look at. The only problem is, like Huhne, she's not guaranteed to be an MP after the next election.

For now, the Lib Dem vote will continue to hemorrhage as this simply does not look good, nor does it support their cuddly image.

[Michael Davidson]

If Clegg wins then there's no doubt that the LibDems will take votes from us. He's exactly the type of person who'll pick up votes from Middle England where Ming didn't.

I suggest we all hope for a Huhne victory!

[John Leonard]

It seems that the various Libdem factions are already spinning. Some say it was Huhne's lieutenants some seem to be saying it's the right of the Party.

Perhaps we should wait and see what happens before we worry too much over the Libdems.

So the score is now four Home Secretaries for David Davis?

And Two Libdem Leaders and One Labour Leader for David Cameron.....

Have we got any more scores for Shadow Cab Ministers (how many Foreign Secretaries has William Hague seen off 1/2?)

;o)

[Chad Noble]

Ming was completely rubbish really, so he had to go.

I think this would only have been a threat to the Tories before the rebalancing, as there really isn't room for two fluffy touchy-feely parties.

As long as the Tories remain on their balanced 'And' agenda, then I don't think they really have too much to worry about.

[Jill, London]

Cable has played Brutus to two successive leaders. Normally he leaves the dirty work to his councillors, but now he is shown up for what he is - a backstabbing opportunist! I hope the electorate of Twickenham finally boot him out at the next general election!

[Edison Smith]

Clegg does worry me because he could be a Conservative (he and Laws should have been asked by Mr Cameron long before now to join the Tories so they can actually make a difference, rather than laze in the coffee-evening comfort zone of third place - instead it was left to Osborne to make a half-hearted effort), but my feeling is that he is only being billed for the job because he is young.

If Labour aren't stealing our policies, the Lib Dems are stealing our leadership ideas.

If Clegg is voted leader, then it's a massive backhanded compliment to Cameron by the Lib Dems in my opinion: They would be publicly accepting that the Tory route since December 2005 has been the correct one.

But Clegg's youth will not hide the fact that he is actually rather boring.

Cameron isn't just a pretty face. One feels Clegg is.

[Gordon Hetherington]

This could be very bad news for the Conservatives. A new media friendly younger candidate could take key votes away from DC and letting Labour win again.

[Malcolm Dunn]

I'm sorry for Ming. He was a gent and I think a decent man. His performance was not very good though,I suspect his cancer took more out of him than he or the Lib Dems realised.
Their biggest problem though is the party not it's leader. What do they stand for? The always attack from the left and for a party that is supposed to support the individual usually only offer statist solutions.
It does seem that Ming's resignation has been handled badly and there may be much bitterness afterward. I suspect Clegg will succeed but I wonder if he'll be able to take the more ridiculous leftwing members of his party with him?

[Yet Another Anon]

The media will be having to rewrite lots of it's headlines as Gordon and Ming will no longer be going head to head, if they can find some kind of international issue GORDON SAVES EARTH, MING GOES TO OBLIVION might be a possibility in the next few days! I suppose they could compare David Cameron to Prince Baron.

[Richard Carey]

I think this would only have been a threat to the Tories before the rebalancing, as there really isn't room for two fluffy touchy-feely parties. As long as the Tories remain on their balanced 'And' agenda, then I don't think they really have too much to worry about.

For possibly the first time, Chad, I think that you and I are in agreement in part.

I don't agree that we were genuinely out of balance on the policy front before Conference, but we didn't always do the best job of communicating that - and that's not just the leadership, that was at all levels.

In an example of where this did work well, in the local elections this year, for example, we had both a national and local manifesto that focused on both improving your local environment (which you experience every time you step outside your front door) and cracking down on crime and antisocial behaviour in your local neighbourhood. We made 900 gains on the back of both that approach and a lot of hard work.

Which brings me to my second point. We need to keep working and keep an eye on the LD leadership contest and its outcome. It may go well, it may go badly. But LDs make and retain most of their gains through work on the ground. If we were to be faced with a resurgent LD opposition in some key seats, we need to do what we need to do anyway - keep standing up for people on the things that really matter there, dominate every issue (none too big, none too small) with sensible, moderate solutions, and leave no room for our opponents.

This is as much a job for you and I (maybe a little more for me?) as it is for DC. Our tanks are parked firmly in the centre of British politics against Labour - I hardly think we're going to let them be pushed off by the light infantry from the LDs.

[IRJMilne]

This is our fault for stupidly telling the Lib Dems to change leader all the time.

[Curly]

Why all this fear of new youthfully stronger possible Lib-Dem leaders?

Gordon Broon faced by two newer fresher faces on the opposition benches will look even more like the tired old man of the house and not the force for change that people want.

Labour could well be facing a squeeze on their vote in the marginals, especially if the economy moves into the predicted downturn.

Cheer up, this could be good news!

(Shame that age and presentation have to come into these things though)

[Daniel Hannan]

Who next? It's clear who's in our interest:

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/politics/danielhannan/october/next-lib-dem-leader.htm

[Northernhousewife]

Thank you Edison [re. Nick Clegg/dull]. I thought it was just me [it often is].

[Yet Another Anon]

I hope the electorate of Twickenham finally boot him out at the next general election!
He has strengthened his majority since first winning the seat, in 2005 winning with 51.6% of those turming out - if the Liberal Democrats wanted a leader who appears reasonably secure as an MP and appeals very much to those in Southern England who might be favourable towards a libertarian approach I think they would be likely to go for him.

Simon Hughes I think rather destroyed his credibility last time around and while for other parties he would be a godsend as Liberal Democrat leader, I rather think the Liberal Democrats will not have him as leader. Sarah Teather and Julia Goldsworthy probably are future candidates, but it is probably too soon for them.

The advantage for many who think that they might be a future prospect in backing Vincent Cable is that they can feel it is probable that he would bow out in several years time, Chris Huhne even for example if he became leader could easily be leader for 20 years.

[Comstock]

"Chris Huhne, who is hanging on to a marginal seat by his fingernails"

There has to be some serious doubt about whether Huhne can hold Eastleigh, especially if Labour voters don't vote tactically.

[Graham Smith]

Excellent news. The LibDems will undoubtably pick Nick Clegg.

[voreas06]

Edison Smith "But Clegg's youth will not hide the fact that he is actually rather boring."

I don't know if Clegg is boring, but certainly I have seen on a couple of occasions a real flash of anger and irritation and boorish behaviour, the kind of thing that really doesn't sit too well with a party leader. I get the feeling he will be fairly thin skinned as a leader and will need to watch himself.

Whilst Ming was ineffective and the Liberal consensus is that his resignation will be bad for the Conservatives I think it might actually be a good that Ming is going, Brown in a truly despicable and cynical way took advantage of his friendship but Ming was not really up to putting party and country ahead of friendship (however shallow) and the new leader whoever he or she is will sniff the political weather, see Labour on the way out and will act accordingly.

[David]

"A new media friendly younger candidate could take key votes away from DC and letting Labour win again."

It depends actually on a number of factors. Huhne as leader, for example, may tack the party towards the left, which would damage Labour more than the Tories. And much like the Tories, the core of the party membership tend to be more ideological, in their case it's a solid left wing block. It's possible that while Clegg would make more sense, his Orange Book-ish views are too right wing to be palatable to the membership who may be stuck in a Tory party voting for IDS mindset type of way.

It's a poor move by the party; their predicament is the result of the squeeze by the main two, and would, in one form or another, happen under any leader. Come an election campaign, the extra publicity of the party, plus the local boosts LibDem incumbents tend to get wouldn't have resulted in the wipeout the current polls suggest.

[Traditional Tory]

Ashton Cull - From my experience as a webboard moderator, I can smell WUMs and trolls from a mile off. TT has the definate bouquet, and fulfills all the criteria we use on our own webboards to warrant account deletion.

Really? So where did you suddenly spring from, Mr Cull? I don't previously recall your somewhat unlikely presence.

FYI I have been a member of the party for 37 years; rather longer than you I daresay.

My distaste for Cameron and the Cameroons will come as a surprise to nobody other than a total greenhorn.

[Paul]

There is a lot of gloom on this thread and none of it is warranted. The Liberals are in a horrible mess and David Cameron can take a lot of credit for this. Nick Clegg would do okay but as has been said he is boring and I think terming him right wing is to miss what he actually stands for. Kennedy is still the best they have and would be a safe bet but may show the party as lacking any quality. Julia Goldsworthy seems very lightweight to me but would provide some interest in the Liberals!

[Ted]

Clegg's last big proposal was an amnesty for 600, 000 illegal immigrants, while he is close to Conservatives on many things e.g. rural & suburban post office, that will be a policy too far for many.

Huhne is keen on green taxes to a far greater extent than even our most ardent green camaigners, he's very Europhile and was IIRC (may still be) a member of the metric board that wanted to make imperial measures illegal.

Both are eminently beatable from the centre right, Clegg though ilooks much more likely to support the Tories in a hung parliament

[Editor]

Very good point about the immigration amnesty, Ted.

His Euro enthusiasm should also be a wake up call for all Tories as to his deep LibDemmery.

[Oscar Miller]

The reason there's been a swing to the Conservatives this last week is not because Cameron is 'a pretty face'. It's because the Tories have been coming up with some fine policies and have presented them well. Until the LibDems can actually explain to anyone what they stand for they are sunk. Vision, ideas, policies. Brown hasn't got it. The LibDem haven't got it. The conservatives are producing policy - they are in touch with the electorate - they are setting the agenda. Cameron has demonstrated he's got what it takes to lead the country. So enough already with the pretty faces - never underestimate the intelligence of voters.

[Steve Garner]

Well said Paul. There is a lot of gloom and no little nonsense with it. Conservative Home regulars may think that Clegg and Huhne are a threat but since 95% of the electorate have never heard of either of them we just don't know. Come to that, we've no idea if either of them are up to it.

We also don't know how Ming's knifing will play with the voters. My hunch is that a lot of voters will be pretty unimpressed by a party that dumps 2 leaders in 2 years and then appoints someone who is an unknown.

Our team should just concentrate on policy development and attacking the real enemy, Brown.

[Edison Smith]

I wonder how much that amnesty was down to Clegg though.

Defending it on tv after the announcement at the conference, he looked rather bemused about the whole idea himself - his body language was 'I'm saying it but I don't believe it; it's being thrust down on me from above'.

I wouldn't be surprised if it turns out to be an idea of Simon Hughes, or another strong leftie high up in the LD heirarchy, who were looking to steady the base or find some - anthing - to distinguish the party from the main two.

I'm not a Clegg apologist, but that was my take at the time.

[Northernhousewife]

I recall a theory doing the rounds at time of Ming's appointment that he would be a threat to us because he sounded and looked like an old Tory?!

[Yet Another Anon]

The Liberals are in a horrible mess and David Cameron can take a lot of credit for this.
The rot set in under Charles Kennedy, it has to be said that his major contributor as Liberal Democrat leader seemed to be to appear on Have I Got News For You - he had all the intellectual credibility of a tapeworm, he appealed to trendies who didn't know better and was lucky with regard to the news agenda - in boxing terms he's more reminiscent of Oliver McCall than Lennox Lewis.

[Dale]

This seems to have already been established, but please humour me. Why is Nick Clegg a tory?

[Traditional Tory]

My hunch is that a lot of voters will be pretty unimpressed by a party that dumps 2 leaders in 2 years and then appoints someone who is an unknown.

>>Cough<< Well it did take the Conservative Party 15 years to dump 5 leaders but I would have thought you would have been among the first to sing the praises of the 'unknown' who was then appointed.

And have you already forgotten the bounce Howard enjoyed after IDS was knifed?

LibDems are the main challengers in nearly all the marginals in the south of England so there's no point in pretending that a favourable spin can be put on this development.

[Dale]

It's actually quite funny that we have decided that we can't allow another paty to destroy themselves. We have to jump on the bandwagon with posts about the all powerful Arch-Tory Nick clegg. With real tory policies like deeper EU integration and illegal imigrant amnesties how can we possibly survive?

The End is nigh!

I'm defecting to the party that is clearly on the way to a landslide victory with its soon to be Leader, the great Nick Clegg!

[Treacle]

Clegg and Laws for the Tory Party? I don't think so Mr Edison Smith.

They made the choice to join an unprincipled Party of social inadequates and there they can stay, hopefully going down with their ship.

Those of us who fight these sanctimonious hypocrites on a daily basis know that the only good liberal activist/MP/ MEP/ Councillor is the one you just beat at the election.

Work with them? I wouldn't put them out if they were on fire.

[Ashton]

This is not a place for discussions on your validity TT, nor a discussion on my experience in politics or webboard moderation. If the Editors would like to hear my case I will give it to them, but as for the public areas of this site, I will stick to attempting constructive debate on the political issues of the day.

[Jill, London]

Yet Another Anon at 21.03 suggests Brutus Cable as leader of the Lib Dems! What a hoot! Almost as amusing as the sight of Brutus Cable and fellow assassin Hughes looking like two foxes who’ve raided the chicken coop – sitting there with feathers in their mouths – but absolving themselves of blame by pointing the finger at ‘the media’ over Campbell’s age – when asked if they were the new Nasty Party on Newsnight.

And what a pathetic excuse – if they cave in on that point – how could they even think about running a government?

Regardless of that backstabbing duo’s excuses - considering Campbell’s age has been cited as his main problem - how does Brutus Cable qualify when he’s only two years younger than Campbell?!

[Yet Another Anon]

how does Brutus Cable qualify when he’s only two years younger than Campbell?!
Vincent Cable didn't mention Menzies Campbell's age, rather he criticised his performance - it was Menzies Campbell's resignation statement that said he couldn't get over being seen as too old. Vincent Cable can just say that it was Menzies Campbell's personal view and didn't apply to him.

[James Maskell]

Simon Hughes reaction to the question "Did you wield the dagger?" was a classic sign of guilt. Hughes knew exactly why Ming went.

[Joe James Broughton]

Nick Clegg is vacuous - not factual and weak on policy. Ed Vazey made mincemeat of almost everything Clegg said on Question Time in September.

I think Huhne could be some problem for the other two parties because he does sound more plausible and a bit more gravitas.

I suspect none of this will reflect well on them, and in the tight two party situation people are likely to divide into those who basically want to keep Labour in office, or are relaxed about it/generally sympathetic to it,
or those who seriously want a different government. That is the LDs main problem, and Campbell was somewhat unfairly blamed.