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Time to hit French levels of nuclear power then, Zac?

(Feel free to overwrite)

The same "scientists" who are predicting dire consequences from global warming are the same ones who predicted an ice age in the 1970s.

The notorious Paul Ehrlich is a classic example. Julian Simon, a free market environmentalist, won a famous bet against Ehrlich and is the key influence on Bjorn Lomborg.

A sad little rich boy who hasn't the first idea of what makes people tick. He's been listening too much to the luvvies and the correspondence column of his own loss-making Ecologist. He now makes the fatal mistake of believing his own propaganda, just as the rest of the country is waking up to the "greenie scam". He and his like will ensure that the Conservative Party is consigned to the dustbin - he won't even make it as far as the recycling bin.

I dont think that nuclear power was discounted in this report, you do need to get the mix right, have you noticed how little solar power there is in the country in which you would expect to see the most?None of this will work of course unless we manage to smash the huge energy monopolies that exist in southern Europe.I do struggle with all this car nonsense, I have a large Family, we park our large Car at Cosco and bulk buy, in human terms a low carbon footprint.Cant we just tax super rich trustafarians a little bit more, ban standby buttons, set emission limits for cars, and be done with all this 'green' tax stuff? I'm sure the markets could do without rising sea levels and the end of humanity, the insurance industry will see to most of this.

It would be nice if Zac could spell principal right. If sticks and punishments are the wrong solution, why do most of his proposals seem to involve more tax ?

I wonder whether "Zac" has any idea how irritating some find it to be given lifestyle advice by a gilded, wealthy youth, possessed by the new green religion and utterly unencumbered by any scientific knowledge?
If he is to continue to advise Mr Cameron, then I suggest he does so as an eminence grise: his prominence does nothing for my blood pressure and I am sure that I am not alone in that.

Q: What thrives on CO2 and produces 73 to 87 percent of the net global production of oxygen?

A: The rainforests? Nope, they are actually carbon neutral in that fauna respire what flora absorb.

What is the most effective source for biodiesel, occurs in abundance globally, can be cultivated with no competition in terms of food production, can be cultivated virtually anywhere and produces 73 to 87 per cent of the net global production of oxygen?

Never mind this suicidal manifesto, how’s about countering global warming with the most precious organism on this planet?

Absolutely correct from Goldsmith. How we let Labour and the Lib Dem dominate the green issues in previous years is beyond me. I'm a conservative because I want to preserve what is best in our world and society, and that means this lovely green country/planet we have. People should take more responsbility for their actions, and the government has a small but influential role in making that happen.

Messrs Goldsmith and Gummer are to be congratulated on single handedly wiping out any chance of the Conservative Party winning the next General Election. What an open goal for Gordon Brown and his cronies in the media!

This infernal green nonsense really gives me the hump. Do they think we are stupid?

With a coal fired power station opening every 4 days in China, what possible difference is it going to make taxing short haul flights in the UK?

What worries me is that whilst our politicians think they are dealing with climate change with petty gestures, they really have taken their collective eyes off the ball. This country already leads by example. We should address our energies (pardon the pun) to changing behaviour elsewhere in the world!

This sort of drivel makes me dread a Conservative government even more than a Labour one. And I say that as a paid up member!

I have just read that Mrs T is to take Tea with GB at No10 today so i think we all know what she thinks of this report don't we.
(feel free to overwrite as you did my last post but by editing my post you will not stop the brewing resentment from the base of this once great organisation)

Sorry to the editor of this forum,i jumped the gun a little in thinking you stopped my last post,you must have been out to lunch ;o)

Heard Zacharias on WATO Radio 4 today....Martha Kearney isn't exactly incisive but Zacharias was way out at sea

Some eco decisions make sense just because of the need to reduce our dependency on oil and our growing reliance on European gas.

These are the things we need to do. Carbon off setting is for the nutty folk and taxing supermarket car parks is an irrelevance as we enter a time of home deliveries.

I'm so angry about this whole debacle, I'm forced to make another ranting comment. Goldsmith should be given the boot - if he wants to play silly buggers at politics like this then he should do what his father did and start his own political party with his own money. If Cameron doesn't or cannot get rid of him (for whatever reason) then his future must be uncertain as well.

I'm fed up to the back teeth with this Greenie nonsense - it's a scam. Whilst I agree we should be much less wasteful with energy (common sense really), we need to sort out all the other broken aspects of the UK first.

My local MP Greg Hands is very good, but overall I'm not convinced Cameron and Co will be any better than than the lunatics in power now!

Why doesn't Zak head off to China and India to convince them to trash their economies? The UK is a tiny fillup in the overall output; all the efforts that will trash the economy will not one bit of good overall.

Does he not see that a rich kid like him lecturing everyone else comes across as a bit patronising?

He is a plant to make sure the Tory Party gets no where near power. I mean he has to be?

We could reduce our emmissions to zero tomorrow and the reduction in the global total would be less than the increase from China alone in the next 6 months.

The 'green' bandwagon really needs to be stopped before it does real mischief to our economy.

Didn't the school Zac supposedly went to teach that the Earth have had ice ages and warmed/cooled in between? Or was he asleep then?

Damme, and I'd just about had a handle on this hoodie lark -- hug 'em so long as they don't daub me palisades and ain't carryin' a fowlin' piece. Did I get that bit right?

Then, along comes this "Green Tax" stuff. Is it some version of that tax the whelp Pitt slapped on me fenestration? And me man-o'-business says I'm still payin' his tax on me income, so are we still at war with the froggies?

What I cannot comprehend is why there have to be all these extra bits added on: it's like that minx Salome, but in reverse: always adding on, nothin' comin' orff. Most frustratin'.

I mean, I take a dander round the old colonial bits, y'know. I'm payin' extras for this, extras for that: nobody gives me a straight price any more, y'know. Taxes for this. Charges for that. Supplements for somethin' else.

It'll get so that I'm lookin' for a bit of sport. I buy me ticket, but have to put an extra few coins in the electric meter at King's Cross afore the train'll waltz me orff to blast a few birds and thrash a few peasants on me North British estates. It takes all the pleasure out of it, y'know.

And all this carbon emission how's-yer-father: they'll be chargin' for burnin' orff the heather next.

Is this yer modern "Conservatism" I ask? Sounds like dangerous bolshie nonsense to me.

I don’t like the ‘chippy’ attitude of some contributors. We’re against polluters not the rich. We want Green growth not no growth. It is just not true that Green taxes will hit the poor hardest. The poorest are probably to be found among the 25% of households without a car and the 50% of people who don’t travel by air in a year. Better public transport is likely to benefit these most.
Also, let’s get the section on air travel in proportion. It is a small section of the report. Aircraft contribute only 5.5% of carbon emissions in the UK, although it is set to rise rapidly and hence needs to be addressed. Energy used in buildings contributes 50% and road transport about another quarter and the report has some sensible recommendations in these areas.
If the scientific consensus is correct and we are warming the planet with potentially disastrous results then we can’t do nothing. And if you do something, one or other interest group complains.

We are not chippy, just opposing green socialist policies that will hurt the poorest hardest. They cannot afford to "offset" like the millionaire authors of this report. Goldsmith and Gummer are hypocrities like Al Gore - it is "do as I say, not as I do".

Terry - we can be 'chippy' if we want, its called free speech.

Green growth is no growth. It involves worshipping the Earth, viewing it as having intrinsic value.

Your views do not represent those of either the Conservative party or the British people.

I don't think anyone is suggetsing that we do nothing, Terry 16:09. Just that we do something(s) that will actually make a difference to GLOBAL pollution rather than just making our lives a misery in the UK and destabilising the economy. We need to be working on the USA, Eastern Europe and China to rein in their emmissions!

You certainly trot out the green cliche with applomb! '...Green growth not no growth...' - drivel!

To Terry at 16:09 referring to 'chippy' attitudes -

There is no proof whatsover that the actions of mankind are in any way responsible for climate change. None at all. Throughout the Earths history temperatures have risen and fallen and risen again. It's out of our control. That's not to say we shouldn't turn the lights off, and not be so wasteful with energy - that's just common sense. Given the choice I'd rather not fly, in fact I think we should pump money into the railway system and public transport. The French did it and have practically eliminated domestic flights. Provide a good, reliable, comfortable and reasonably priced option and it will be used.

The problem with The Quality of Life report is that most people will not read it, but they will assume thanks to comment in the media and general conjecture that it concerns rich, priviliged people unconnected with the real world telling them what to do and taxing them. As far as 'Mondeo Man' is concerned it's about Tory Toffs taxing his well earned break in the sun. It's the biggest vote loser imagineable - Brown could appear on TV every evening eating live kittens and would still win an election if this madness continues.

It has to stop.

On Sunday's Andrew Marr programme, Zak Goldsmith was asked, rather tongue in cheek, if we should all be compelled to have windmills on the roof.

He rather waffled around the subject stating that "the jury was out" on the effectiveness of such devices and then telling us that he was an 'enabler' rather than a source of scientific expertise on such questions.

That being the case, shouldn't David Cameron's advisers be people with some direct knowledge or relevant life-experience rather than middle-men whose main agenda seems to be one of personal promotion?

I, for one, don't need Zak Goldsmith's 'interpretation' of green issues as I prefer to get my information from more credible sources.

It's become fairly obvious to me that there's no possible way of avoiding global warming anyway....Selfish human nature (such as "Why should I have to pay a few more pounds to go on holiday?") will ensure that by the time serious catastrophes begin occuring, it will be far too late to do anything.

Even though I'd like radical action to be taken, such as in this report, there's no point. We should probably just put all the money into buildng giant flood defenses!

In my opinion, climate change has no voter appeal.
It's time we concentrated on real matters, such as the over 200 Quangos formed by Brown and Co. He is quoted as having made eight more in his first week as P.M. That lot totals more salaries than all the M.P.s, plus their assistands and staffs. And they are being paid bonuses for failing to meet their targets.
Emphasising such waste is far more effective than taxing car parks. The word TAX is an invitation to the red tops to mis-represent us, whatever adjective is attached.

In my opinion, climate change has no voter appeal.
It's time we concentrated on real matters, such as the over 200 Quangos formed by Brown and Co. He is quoted as having made eight more in his first week as P.M. That lot totals more salaries than all the M.P.s, plus their assistands and staffs. And they are being paid bonuses for failing to meet their targets.
Emphasising such waste is far more effective than taxing car parks. The word TAX is an invitation to the red tops to mis-represent us, whatever adjective is attached.

The problem here is that our beloved Editor is anti the green agenda which means that he can't see how damaging to the Conservative Party the assorted nutters, trolls and class warriors on this site are.

Have you ever read so much ill-informed bile? None of the anti-Goldsmith brigade have even bothered to read the report. They are just itching to vent their spleen at him for being (a) rich, (b) educated at Eton, (c) an environmentalist. If the facts don't fit their Bennite rants (fact: the report does NOT advocate taxing poor people or strivers) they simply ignore the facts.

Read through the comments on the various threads today. Most of them are anonymous. Some are avowed UKIP activists and others are Tebbit-ite rejectionist usual suspects. One or two are certainly Labour trolls. How many genuinely loyal Tories are posting on here to complain about the report? Two? Three?

This Potemkin Village of bogus dissent and bad faith is a disgrace to Conservative Home.

Anon (16.24)
We will not persuade Eastern Europe or China to rein in their emissions if we do nothing, after all we are richer and we cause more carbon emissions per head at the moment. I agree there has to be a global solution but sitting around waiting for someone else to act will get you nowhere.

Agree with the Common Sense post entirely.Zak Goldsmith and John Gummer are putting forward solutions to try to solve the dangers climate change is causing today and will continue to cause in the future if we just sit back and do nothing and they should be congratulated on coming up with some very good policys that will I am sure be supported by the moderate majority.
The trouble about those posting on this site is that they are Thatchers children,they know the price of everything and the value of nothing and are still obsessed by the battles of yesteryear.

To Common Sense @ 16:46 - I assume that that is your real name or do you also choose to post anonymously like those you chastise? I am a member of the party - my card is in front of me No. B5**** - (I won't give the whole number for obvious reasons) I will not be accused of being a UKIP Tebbite Labour troll or whatever.

You said that 'None of the anti-Goldsmith brigade have even bothered to read the report.' - well done, you identify the problem. As I said in my previous post, the majority of the electorate will not read it, but will assume from reports in a largely anti-Tory media that it is a half baked plan by rich kids and detached politicians with nothing better to do, to extract more money from their wallets. Regardless of whether that is true or not, that is what they will think. It is a massive open goal for Brown.

Common Sense writes

//This Potemkin Village of bogus dissent and bad faith is a disgrace to Conservative Home//

On the contrary, Conservative Home is a refreshing source of real debate on important issues.

As a long-term Conservative voter, I now have a real problem with understanding what the party is all about which doesn't make me a troll, UKIP activist or Tebbit-ite rejectionist.

Neither is my support, or otherwise, a matter of 'loyalty' though I am disappointed by the tendency of many Conservatives to rubbish former colleagues, such as Norman Tebbit, who are no longer seen as fashionable or in tune with the 'party line'.

Essentially, I will vote for the party or individual candidate that strkes me as most competent.

Sadly, I am struggling to recognise credibility or competence in the Cameron-led Conservatives.

Green issues worry lots and lots of people who dont go on ConHome but who do vote. Many of them are under 40 and many of them are women.

Our party leaders are trying to make us electable by broadening our appeal to people who would not normally vote Tory. This is because we need to win more seats than labour if we are to form a government. I despair that so many on here fail to see this bigger picture.

Its seems the Party's leadership is hungry for power but the membership (or many on here anyway) would rather remain idealogically pure and in opposition.It reminds me of Old Lab in the 80's. Oh dear....

Ahem!: "Read through the comments on the various threads today. Most of them are anonymous."

So, purporting oneself as "Common Sense" is an-anonymous?

And, no: I seriously doubt that those commentators who do not slavishly and servilely follow the "Green Agenda" are thereby not Conservatives, but unpersons, weirdos or trolls. They are (thank goodness!) expressing decent, considered, and -- yes -- commonsensical views which are nearer to those of the electors that this anti-motoring, anti-flying, anti-shopping, anti-business, tree-huggery which is being foisted on us.

I read the report first thing this morning,and yes I am a conservative voter, and yes Zac winds me up much in the same way as Bob Crow does,both of them in the same way have about as much connection with middle england as Havana Cigars or Working Men's clubs.This sort of command and control politics should be left to Gordon and his goons, fight him where he's weak,public order,quango's,Tzars and floppy foreign policy.

Common Sense - whats with all the nasty personal attacks? Please focus on the issues.

You need to face the reality that alot of tory members are very angry with Cameron and Goldsmith. The Cameroons understimated Brown when he became PM now they are underestimating the anger of tory MPs and members. Will they ever learn? Even when election defeat comes they'll try and pass the buck. Pathetic.

renny - I'm 21yo student from the North of England. Many young people think Cameron is a joke, sure they want a nice environment but they care more about being safe at night when coming home from a club, getting a good job, not having lots of student debt and having good hospitals etc. This idea that loads of people put the environment at the top of their agenda is a myth.

We need to talk about schools, hospitals, crime and the economy not eco-socialism. We are in the mainstream, while Cameroons are simply pandering to the liberal elite in London and the South East. Cameron looks so out of touch.

LIke many other Tories I have got to the point where I don't care if the Conservatives dive bomb at the next election. Cameron and his acolytes like Goldsmith are so utterly distasteful and out of touch with what real Conservatives think that it is tempting to vote Labour just to keep them out in the hope that eventually we will get a Conservative leader who understands what it is to be a Conservative. I would rather a Conservative Party with principle lose at the next election rather than a Conservative Party led by wealthy taxmongers like Goldsmith win.

We will not persuade Eastern Europe or China to rein in their emissions if we do nothing, after all we are richer and we cause more carbon emissions per head at the moment.

Eastern Europe ? Where is that ?

China isn't going to rein in their emissions any more than they will ban lead paint on toys sold in China just because we do. 35% Chinese children have excessive lead levels in their blood.....regulations in the EU and USA had no effect and they happily exported same to those very countries which could not be bothered to chek what their children were playing with.

So I doubt China or Russia care much about a bunch of geriatric European statelets behaving like cranky old women in a home....they are out to be dominant and one aims to dominate energy markets and the other manufactured goods....

Europeans can run heritage events for Chinese and Russian tourists, or do flk dancing and horse-drawn plough racing for Chinese TV programmes.

The arrogance of the Europeans thinking they will lecture half the world's population in India and China - seems the old Neo-Colonialists and Neo-Imperialists never learn

If many of the comments on here are at all representative of broader party membership then what's the point in trying? Brown and Cameron are fighting over the centre ground, where the election will be won. We have to appeal to a broad spectrum of people - most on the right, yes, but a fair proportion who are slightly more centre or left-wing who probably haven't ever voted for us. It's going to be a bruising battle over the next few months and it doesn't help when Cameron isn't getting the support he requires from MPs and party members/"supporters".

You can't have a pure conservative party these days. Those happy days are gone. It belongs to the time when we had a pure Labour party to compete with. What you need is a broad based coalition based on conservative principles. If anyone paid any attention to what Cameron (and the Shadow Cabinet to a lesser extent) is saying then it would be abundantly clear that Cameron is a conservative through and through - he's just trying to make us electable in the 21st century.

Radical Tory @ September 13, 2007 at 16:21 wrote:

"Green growth is no growth. It involves worshipping the Earth, viewing it as having intrinsic value."

My God, that is frightening! Do you really not believe that the only planet in our solar system capable of sustaining human life has no intrinsic value?

Yes, of course we need to talk about pensions, crime, immigration, quangos...but that doesn't mean we can't also talk about green issues.

Despite the head-in-the-sand brigade who would rather ignore it, there is a global scientific consensus that if we start to cut our carbon emissions now, we might only suffer SOME of the devastating global floods, hurricanes, famine and population movement that climate change will cause. If we do nothing - god help us and our grandchildren.

James - you also implied that the planet has no intrinsic value! You point to the fact that we are the only planet in the solar system able to sustain human life as your reason for believing it has intrinsic value thus it does not have intrinsic value! Its value lies in serving a purpose -human life!

Our planet should not be seen as something separate from the interests of humans. It is there for our use. You may deny it but your initial emphasis on humanity suggests you also know this is true.

I have no problem with talking about green issues such as noise pollution, congestion, the decline of hedgerows etc. These are things people deal with on a daily basis. Cameron has however let green issues dominate his agenda. This is a fatal mistake. Schools, hospitals, the economy and crime will either win us or lose us the next election. Do you really believe the environment should be the dominant issue for our party? What about public services? Its fantasy to think green issues will sway things for the tories.

Radical Tory - you ask me "Do you really believe the environment should be the dominant issue for our party?"

No! I don't believe the environment should be the dominant issue for our party.

And I don't believe it is remotely in danger of becoming so. One policy review among six for goodness sake.

This is 'the politics of and', but some people are treating it as though it is all Cameron stands for. We can have a challenging environmental agenda, and talk about public services, and deal with crime, immigration...

What about:

promise to limit immigration
promise of a uniformed border police force
promise to build more prisons
promise to scrap ID cards
promise to cut police bureaucracy
promise to stop endless NHS reorganisations
promise to trust the professionals
promise to cut taxes as a proportion of GDP over time (sharing proceeds of growth)
promise to introduce streaming in schools
promise to support head teachers and improve discipline

James - I am not merely referring to this policy review. Since Cameron was elected the environment has been a huge issue for him. The column inches tell us that along with all the stunts from cycling to work to going to Norway to justifying his Rwanda trip with reference to climate change. Are you seriously denying this?

You must understand that the public only give us so much time to get our message out before they switch of. Too much emphasis has been on green issues. We have a limited time but Cameroons act as if the public will listen to us on issue after issue after issue. It isn't going to happen. They are not political obsessives.

Your list of promises is good. But do the electorate know these things? Nope. They know that Cameron likes talking about green issues and cycles to work with his car behind him.

To get our message through we must repeat it again and again in a professional manner free of gaffes. Cameron has failed too many times to do this. The fact that people know we are more interested in green issues than building more prisons or scrapping ID cards is a big problem.

It comes down to this - what do the public think. I know Cameron wants to limit immigration but do the public? I don't think they do. One interview on Newsnight is not a campaign.

It is not the 'politics of and' when the public hear so much about one type of issue and so little about the other type of issues. And when he talks about the latter it is feeble, after all who would not support more discipline in schools, less red tape for police and trusting the professionals? Hardly inspriring people to go out and vote tory.

Cameron will take us to defeat. Wait and see.

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