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That speech was 15 hours ago. Where is the Tory Opposition tearing it to pieces and pointing out the saintly Kinnock is a foul mouthed yob who is drawing hundreds of thousands for the taxpayer for his success in not sacking the corrupt in Brussels and sacking those who drew the attention of the bastard to the corruption there.

Does anyone have any decent footage from the Sheffield Rally? I'd love to watch Kinnock's speech again, though all I can find is some very brief overview footage on the BBC.

"We're alright!!!"

Why bother grinding them to dust? They've spent the last ten years doing it for us. No matter how much Labout hates the Tories they'll never hate them as much as the multiplicity of Tory factions hate each other. They've already committed suicide by imbibing their own poison - it's just that the death, though inevitable now,is slow.

How can anyone call that man a statesman ? Elder certainly, but STATESMAN ?

We'll have to invent a new phrase to cover the likes of him :

Elder Neverwas ? He doesn't even qualify as a has-been.

Alan Douglas

The Conservative party should demand a public apology fron Neil Kinnock. Such behaviour is completely unacceptable. Neil Kinnocks language is a slur on all those Conservatives who work hard in public service. Neil Kinnock's behaviour shows why he wasn't fit to be our prime minister. The Conservative party must press for a public apology from Neil Kinnock.

This is why we need to win again! Brown is going to destroy the effectiveness of our party unless we finally decide to start talking to people outside the party and engaging with them. Navel gazing for the last ten years has done us terrible damage. His speech yesterday was a clear signal that he is going after us properly now. But, we need to realise that our future is not down to Brown, but what we do about him, we have huge potential for appeal. I am extremely fustrated that Cameron has been herded back onto the same old territory that handed Labour three election wins in a row. We had better get real about this pretty soon.

The Labour candidate for York Outer has the footage on YouTube - though why Im not sure - hardly Labour's finest moment! Every time I pass the Hallam arena as its now called I have a smile on my face!


I even find it funny that Kinnock actually became Labour leader, yet alone almost PM!

On the radio, or TV, I've always found Kinnock grating, patronising, humourless, emotional, short-tempered and childish.

Next to him, Gordon Brown looks like a statesman!

Kinnock's an idiot but at least he's passionate for his cause and fights against his rivals. It would be nice to here someone from our side with that kind of passion once in a while.


Try this:


Yes, Neil Kinnock I am afraid displayed last night just why he didn't win the 1992 election. There were some things I actually admired about him, his concern for the poor, the unemployed etc. His big problem is he just can't control his emotions.

" I am extremely fustrated that Cameron has been herded back onto the same old territory that handed Labour three election wins in a row.

Oberon, you may not have 'won' but your election results have been progressively better, in a slow, grind into government.

So, please no more of this deceptive dismissal of past election results as a reason to support Cameron as it looks like Cameron may well the first Tory opposition leader since 1997 to fail improve on the previous result.

The result is not boolean; reducing Labour's majority is a huge long-term step towards government and both Hague and Howard achieved this.

But will Cameron?

How nice of the Labour Party conference to drape themselves in the flags of the country.
Why is though that NuLab have consistently not allowed the St George's flag to be flown from all public buildings in England alongside the Union Flag. Perhaps they would prefer the EU flag, afterall Brussels appears to be the de-facto ruler these days.
Kinnock is a buffoon, i could call him other names, but this is a family website read before the watershed. As a senior apparatchik in Brussels/Strasbourg, sent there as all failures are from this country, he has done nothing to curb the fraud that is endemic across the board. He has allowed the guillotine to become the modus operandi of the EU Parliament, thus stifling debate and allowing a raft of intrusive legislation to be promulgated. He has made no in-roads into the parochial system that forces political parties to join the pro-EU groupings to qualify for funding and support.
I'm not really surprised at this, as Kinnock has always preferred the UK to be ruled from elsewhere, these days Brussels prefably. As a failed politician in this country he has been able to embrace the never-never fairyland of the EU and the socialist nirvana that is propounded.
Only some 52 years ago, a person of his ilk, would have been charged with treason and placed before a firing squad or sent to the gallows. It is a damning indictment on the education and loyalty of many politicians today, that 50 years of socialist teaching and brainwashing has given us a quasi-elite-leadership that have no love of their country, no idea or regard for the history and are prepared to gerrymander with outside forces to act as Quislings.
Kinnock should be ignored, consigned to the dustbin of have-beens and failures, and his articulations ripped apart for the rubbish that they are.

I am sorry, but Kinnock really is a pr*tt, isn't he?

Brown would be well advised to steer clear of him in the weeks and months ahead.

On the specific issue of factionalism within our own party, I tend to agree that we are self destructive. However, the matter has been recently made much worse. The reign of Francis Maude at Central Office (or whatever they call it at the moment)resulted in a huge purge of the Candidates List. The Centre Right of the Party were effectively destroyed in this purge and this has only helped to fuel bitter resentment and more factionalism.

Nobody would have objected to the recruitment of new blood and the weeding out of various eccentrics and nutters, but this was a much, much broader cull. I was amazed to learn that virtually anyone that I had known to be on the Candidates List at the time of the last General Election were thrown off by Maude and Co. Interestingly, I discovered that those purged included women, young people and ethnic minorities amongst their number. If they were not actually expelled many others were shunted into the sidelines by being excluded from the A List.

As I say, we were not talking about an extremist fringe, but members of the moderate mainstream, like Iain Dale. I know that in Iain's case he was later able to appeal this initial decision, but what in the hell was going on in the first place? Why were all of these people pushed out? They were not all out of touch old fogies.

New Labour were far more astute in their handling of selections in the early 1990's. Sure, they wanted new blood and recruited from outside traditional Labour circles, but they did not prevent the likes of Bob Marshall-Andrews from continuing their careers within their party. In adopting this approach they were able to both change the image of the Labour Party whilst continuing to benefit from the experience of their traditional, loyal activists. They got the balance right. We have botched it.

Surely the best way of running a party is to engage all of the talents? Even Harold Macmillan, champion of the Tory Left, stated that it was important to recognise the different philosophical traditions within the great coalitions that are our political parties and try to keep the decent folk of both wings firmly on side.

Maude ignored this advice and purged the entire Centre Right. Frankly, the current bout of nasty bitterness stems from his actions.

Chad Noble, I disagree. I'm confident David Cameron can win and I think the key is the high-profile three week campaign. Gordon Brown cannot possibly compete with David Cameron when it comes to a dynamic campaign. David has top-notch media skills and is going to leave Brown looking fatigued. I accept that the polls are discouraging at time but when we get down to the real business of a general election campaign Brown will be outclassed by Cameron. This will happen.

That youtube clip is brilliant. That's how to energise turnout. Have a glimmer that Hattersley and Kinnock could could the future of the country in their hands. Frightening.

Is there anyone here who wouldn't like to grind Labour into the dust? The problem was, he's a politician, and he said it out loud.

Thanks - I've added the YouTube video into the main post.

He's Chairman of the British Council, a supposedly non-partisan body. If we had any gumption we'd be ensuring his resignation for this all too typical gaffe.

Tony - Can you point me towards any historical evidence that shows that an opposition party heavily trailing the government in the opinion polls completely turning it around with a flash election campaign?

Cameron might improve the standing by 1/2% - but it's not going to be "big money".

"On the specific issue of factionalism within our own party, I tend to agree that we are self destructive."

Isn't that the case with most organisations which lack purpose, direction, and common cause, essentially its called leadership. A factionalism which started when the leadership turned on its own people seeking to humilate and insult them in what they believe?

True Blue, I don't want to grind Labour into dust.

I want my party to present its arguments on how it will improve life in Britain in such a passionate and inspirational way that we win the next election.

I might, admittedly, have a private chuckle at the expressions on the faces of certain Labour members whom I personally dislike.

However, I respect that many of my local Labour councillors, county councillors and many of their MPs are decent, well meaning, hard-working folk and I would never dream of denouncing the whole party in such an uncouth fashion.

Kinnock is a despicable champagne socialist who has spent years with snout and both trotters in the Brussels trough and become everything he claims to despise.


Wouldn't it be nice to have the video of Kinnocks' Canute moment, highly laughable and a demonstration of his uselessness and why the media spinners are now so prominent!!

Graham Checker:Can you point me towards any historical evidence that shows that an opposition party heavily trailing the government in the opinion polls completely turning it around with a flash election campaign?

Not quite on point, but from the North East referendum:
opinion poll 23rd September: Yes 64%; No 36%
final result 4th November: Yes 22%; No 78%

Mike Christie I do want to grind Labour into the dust for the discrimination they have enacted against English people. Any English person should want to see them burried for their anti English racism.

Perhaps that's the problem with the Conservatives, certainly the leadership (or lack of )they don't hate Labour enought to want to stick the political knife in!

'However, I respect that many of my local Labour councillors, county councillors and many of their MPs are decent, well meaning, hard-working folk and I would never dream of denouncing the whole party in such an uncouth fashion.'

Right, so how far exactly down the road to a one-party state do you think these decent and well meaning folk will let Brown go before they object? They're already happily complicit in a leadership which has gerrymandered the constitution to help itself, which - against international law - let Northern Irish terrorists out of jail early, was more indulgent towards IRA weapons retention than it was towards innocent pistol shooters, has lied and lied and lied, and has even tried to abolish the secret ballot?

No totalitarian state runs on the basis of its thugs. They're always a minority. What they run on is the cooperation of millions who would never dream of beating up a protestor themselves, but are prepared to make excuses for the people who do.

Put a leaflet through a door for Brown, you're an accomplice.

Iain, Alex... do you think that Conservatives going down the road of being as petty, spiteful and vindictive towards individual members of the Labour party as some of the more small minded members of Labour are towards us will do anything to make us look like a serious government in waiting?

Argue the issues. Don't sink to the level of the Labour leadership and the nasty wing of that party in demonizing decent people just because they disagree with you.

Hear,hear Mike Christie. I dislike Brown hugely and loathe Tony Blair beyond belief but making catty remarks about them or other Labour figures over the last 10 years has not done us much good has it? Attack them for what the've done or their beliefs but not for who they are.

Mike Christie I didn't identify individuals but the Labour party, and identified the Labour party for destruction because of its discrimination and racism against English people.

So not individuals but the organisation, and for its policies. In other words exactly what you are demanding.

The British Council angle is a good one . Being chairman of it is completely incompatible with his words or the manner of them .

It is entirely reasonable to demand his resignation on these grounds .

Iain, fair comment. My comments were more directed at Alex who seems to think that I should hold every single member of the Labour party in individual contempt for the failings of Blair and Brown and the Labour Government.

If the membership of the Labour party is anything like the membership of the Conservative party that I've encountered than half of them wouldn't recognise most of their ministers or be able to explain any of their parties policies. They stay with the parties because they still believe in the principles the party stood for when they orginally joined.

I don't blame Kinnock for being sour. Think of the humiliating defeats he suffered at the hands of Britain's greatest Prime Minister.

Will there ever be a bronze statue of him? I don't think so.

Graham Checker, I'm confident that Gordon Brown is going to so outdated in high-exposure campaign. People underestimate David Cameron.

On the subject of Neil Kinnock. If any of us went up to an old lady wearing a Labour rosette and used fowl language and threatened to grind her into the dust we would be arrested. Neil Kinnock did exactly that to lots of Tory women whith his violent words about Conservatives.

I think people stopped taking Kinnock seriously when he said he thought they had universities 1000 generations ago.

Actually people probably stopped taking him seriously long before that. Still, if labour had more like him it would make our lives a lot easier, thats for sure.

Kinnock's like all the seven deadly sins rolled into one. A wrathful egomaniac lusting for power, supporting the politics of envy; now turned slothful glutton clinging to his riches off the EU.

hmmm, interesting.

maybe such arrogance will be their downfall.....

voters do not like to be taken for granted as this comment does, plus Milliband's decade one at the weekend.

"now turned slothful glutton clinging to his riches off the EU"

Yes, thats the impression I get too. All Neil Kinnocks radicalism has gone. He has morphed into the sickly career-politican now. I heard him on radio five trying to put a gloss on the Blair years and the tone of Kinnocks voice told me that he didn't beleve what he was saying, rather he was just going through the motions like a sated career-politican. Ah, The compromise of careerism.

If the Conservatives had an 11 point lead, there would be a lot of cocky rhetoric next week. The Cameroons were cocky with only a 5 point lead then Brown replaced Blair and wiped the smug smirks off their faces.

This time last yr i was a firm Tory ( my first vote ) We have had the LibDems and half of the Nu Labour conference, and the tory fronthbenchesrs ( not to mention leader ) haven't said a word in reply. Any reason for this, or have they all just had to admit Labour has already won the election.

Ah well. Isn't it funny how the Tory Left who attacked Howard/IDS/Wm Hague for not getting more than 33% are now saying 33% isn't all that bad?

We almost certainly face a horrible election. We have one chance - just one - of winning it. If we fight each other, we will lose. If we back our elected leader, even if, like me, it goes against every Conservative grain of my body, we might just win. If so, Mr Cameron will have every chance to prove his policies.

I don't think some of my friends on the Right have quite got it yet - this, if we lose, could well be the last free election. (Even if we don't get PR, who will bet against an EU law making it an oath of loyalty to the COnstitution a pre-requisite for being a candidate or an MP?)

I might not like our leader (I don't) but that's not the point - he's better than Brown. So when the whistle blows, let's hit the streets and save any post-mortems till afterwards.

Regarding George Checker, I can give chapter and verse. Remember a certain H Wilson who on 18 May 1970 called an election on the back of polls predicting a majority of 150+.

On 18 June 1970, he lost.

The precedent of Heath's Government isn't good - but at least he got into Government. And he was followed by Margaret. There might be hope, after all.

The Kinnock speech was awful and fascinating in equal measure. Fascinating because he made a fundamental mistake in trying to make out he understood the inherent fairness of the British people while demonstrating just how unfair he was by what he said in his own speech! I doubt he can even seen that now judging from his latest comments.
Brown is awful and fascinating for other reasons but ones that also reveal how he will fall.

"Regarding George Checker, I can give chapter and verse. Remember a certain H Wilson who on 18 May 1970 called an election on the back of polls predicting a majority of 150+."

"On 18 June 1970, he lost."

But, dcj, firstly, they only just won. Secondly, and most importantly, the Tories had the most respected and popular politician of the day within their ranks; one John Enoch Powell.

Let's be brutally frank here: the Tories don't have anyone of stature, and certainly not someone like him who appealed to people of all political persuasions - someone with outstanding ability, honesty, integrity and a love of his country.

All it seems the Tories now have is Dave and his melting ice caps.

It has taken me a long time, I am ashamed to say, but I have finally realised that a great many non-English politicians [and a few who are English] have been working away undermining the foundations of the Union for some decades.

They had the concept, justified or not, that they were persecuted Celtic minorities ground down under the English heel. Apart from the IRA [a given] we have Kinnock, Blair, Brown, Ashdown, Kennedy, Campbell, Hain, Opik, Salmond - you can make up your own list. Their numbers are swollen by many MPs who were not born here or whose parents came from overseas - people to whom Great Britain or the word British or England mean nothing at all - people who often have strong allegiances to other countries altogether, like Vaz and Hewitt.

The processes were very subtle and insidious and culminated in the effective dismemberment of the United Kingdom under Blair.

The next stage is submission, as "regions" to the EU. Note that Scotland will be an entity, as will Northern Ireland and also Wales. England, it seems, will be broken into 9 or 11 regions, none of whom will have any national identity. There is talk that in this process the Channel Islands will revert to some sort of French identity.

Exit, the Untied Kingdom.

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